Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum
One more thing...
Anonymous:
--- Quote ---On 2005-08-27 18:45:00, rjfro22 wrote:
"I was in the Seed in 1973 SR84
and I am here to say 33 years later , I hold them responsible for forcing me to to learn how love myself,
and how dare they guide me in a direction where I learned how to actually hold a job and could you believe they even made me stay away from my druggie friends and dysfuntional family so I could see there was a future if I stayed sober and drug free, It's their fault I am alive today a some what happy artist/ not model/ not actor living in sunny California.
Sincerly,
Brainwashed :scared: "
--- End quote ---
Well, I'm glad someone agrees with me those people should be held accountable for forcing me to celebrate my 50th birthday, as a functional, intelligent, happy, gifted, loved human being! (also) Brainwashed in SO CAL... :wave:
Ft. Lauderdale:
I came to the seed on my own. I had just turned 18, a senior in High School. My best friend made me promise to follow him in. I thought I was much more fucked up than he was, So I told my mother I needed help. She tried talking me into seeing her shrink (that she had been seeing for the last 10 or so years) I threw a fit and figured he did nothing for her, how could he help me. At the time I felt like "I'm not telling that guy shit" She took me to the seed next day. Now I was a pretty screwed up kid way before drugs ever entered the picture. Low self esteem no ambition, not really good at too much of anything(as far as I was concerened) I was an extremely emotionally distrought young man. I feared being drafted and being sent to Vietnam because I knew I would probably blow my brains out or run and hide. I feared I had many deep rooted problems, because I did not understand myself at all.
My father was an alcoholic (but an extremely talented and highly intelligent man. Just drunk on the floor passed out on his off days. (he was a fireman & I think sober for work)(I guess he didn't understand himself at the time either)Since has died but lived sober in AA for 25 years.
I wasn't a bad looking guy, blonde haired blue eyed 6 ft tall. But I felt like an ugly weird strange person.
(and I'm sure some will argue and say "all teenagers feel that way to a certain extent" and that may be true, but I didn't want to live.)
At the seed, people treated me kindly, I did not fear them. I trusted them and felt some sort of alliance for good & got help. I fell in love with everyone at the seed. As far as I was concerned I found a new family. I treated everyone like they were a part of my family and looked after them and did right by them. I remember kids looking up to me and following my example. I felt like a big brother to alot of kids. You can't fake that shit. I remember one of the parents calling me the all american kid. I had never felt like an "all american kid" now My world started to open up. I felt good about me. I no longer felt like the elephant man I really felt like a human being. I really felt for the first time in my life worth something.
I have since tried to apply everything that the seed taught me and incorporate it into my daily life. Yes I have a couple of quirks here and there. I really don't think I can blame that on the seed. It would be nice if I could.
Sure the seed wasn't perfect. Is your family? Not many are. Actually as time went on I had a problem or two with control issues. Its hard to keep things one way for newcomers and any other way for graduates. People were a little demanding. Guess what I had a mouth, I used it.
Sure sometimes people did not like what I said, and I was blackballed from certain things for awhile. Guess what I survived and I liked the person I was and isn't that what really counts?
My friends are my friends and those that arn't ...arn't. The ideals were there. If you lived them you really lived them and I hold true to them to this day.
Korean mind control? We never ate peanutbutter & jelly with chop sticks, if thats what you mean. It was more like discipline that was much needed in my life. Were they a little pushy? yeah. I needed a push. Sometimes a kick.
I didn't want this to sound like the perfect little seed testimonial, but I guess it does in some ways. Its the truth.
Sometime back people said didn't Art have a tatoo
on his arm? Yes he did from WW2 when he was just a kid himself. It bluraly now still reads "death before dishonor" and I believe, he really tried to live just that way... :smile:
Antigen:
Man, how ironic. When talking about how good the Seed was, it's all about I, I, I, Me, Me, Me. As long as YOU all are happy and successful, where's the problem, right?
The problem is that the Program® has not been such a good thing for everyone forced into it and has become the defacto method of therapy for people who violate the drug statutes. Then, as now, the intake "interview" (aka grilling) never had anything to do w/ substance abuse issues. It was always about deviation from some momentary, arbitrary rules.
Check out Dr. Peele's content on ASAM
http://www.peele.net/debate/talbott.html
You may notice, if you take the time to look into it, that Bobby DuPont (the shrink that Orwell warned us of) holds a seat on the BOD of that rather disturbing organization.
Program zealots have made a booming industry, largely publicly funded (ie welfare mamas and papas) of destroying the lives of people who reject their strident and often delusional beliefs about drugs.
That's the problem, guys. I'm glad ya'll have landed on your feet. But notice how few of us there are talking about it? And even those of us who are able and inclined to talk about it, I'd say it's about 50/50 pro/con. But don't confuse the drug nazis w/ facts or anything. They don't want to know. They just want the damned money and legal authority to continue their evangelical work and they tend to get downright nasty w/ anyone who questions anything they do, have done or propose to do. Just like in Group, only w/ guns and badges and legal authority to make arrests, suspend professional licensing and make legislation.
How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But at any rate, they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to.
George Orwell, 1984
--- End quote ---
rjfro22:
Ft. Lauderdale,
I am really glad we reconnected after all these years, you are one really great person, you really helped a lot of people through the many years with your strenght and hope & dedication . You walk like you talk.
God bless you Brother
rjfro22 :nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy:
marshall:
I realize that many of you believe strongly that going to the Seed saved your life, freed you from drug / alcohol use and made you a better person. Others believe just as strongly that the experience actually harmed them on some level, had little or no effect upon subsequent drug use or may have actually made the problem worse and made them more prone to depression and anxiety. Going back decades and trying to figure out what caused what can be a sort of mental masturbation...to borrow J.U.'s colorful term.
I honestly have no idea whether or to what extent the Seed experience helped or hindered me as a whole. I think this is true for lots of events / experiences in my life. I may have spiralled down into drug addiction if I hadn't gone to the seed. I may also have stopped using drugs even without the program. (This being the most likely outcome)
I spent several months in prison before going to the Seed. I could even make a good case that 'Prison saved my life.' The fear of returning there was a strong incentive to avoiding illegal drugs. There's a good chance that if I'd attended the seed alone without that fear of incarceration hanging over my head for 5 years of probation I would have quickly returned to regular drug use. I simply don't know or claim to know. Prison was a horrible experience and I would not wish it on anyone, especially a 17 yr. old kid. But it may have saved my life. The examples could go on to the more trivial. Maybe taking that right turn at that red light instead of the left saved my life. Maybe some particular phrase uttered by staff saved my life. Maybe that mangey dog crossing in my path saved my life. It's an exercise in futility, imo.
If both sides of the issue would examine this issue closely I think they'd have to honestly admit they have no idea at all as to what did or did not cause what. Some people killed themselves after graduating the Seed. If we are insistent upon crediting the program with all lives saved or suicides not committed...to be consistently honest, we must surely have to admit that the seed may have been the cause of their suicides as well.
I tend to be on the skeptical side of the 'seed saved my life' claim for several reasons. The biggest one being that this claim itself was a part of the teaching of the seed. If that claim were never mentioned as part of the program (ing) and a large group of graduates simply came to the independant conclusion that 'Indeed, the Seed saved my life' I would tend to give the claim more credence. But the claim was not only mentioned, it was regularly drilled into us beginning as newcomers. 'If' there was any degree of conditioning or thought-reform taking place there, this claim was surely a large part of it. It may simply be part of the dogma / conditioning to think this is true and endlessly repeat it or defend it when challenged. We're hindered in an objective examination somewhat by the fact that only 'living' seedlings can make this claim. Those who are dead can not sign on here and make the counterclaim that the Seed did not save my life or 'the seed caused me to commit suicide.
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