Concern for a "student"

[Troll Control]

On 2005-08-13 07:18:00, Truth Searcher wrote:

"

On 2005-08-13 05:26:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:





You're very fond of saying you won't discuss the particulars of your child's placement because it "leads to bashing,"  but you sit here and bash just the same.



If you don't like Niles, fine.  Don't engage him then.



That being said, you are still just acting like a child, using ad hominem attacks and attempting to "character assassinate" someone who you don't even know, simply because you are at an utter loss to refute his arguments.  



Try acting like an adult for a change and EXPLAIN exactly WHY "your program" is a good one.  Name the program, explain how your child was diagnosed and with what disorder and tell us how the treatment plan that your program drafted addressed your child's psychological and social maladaption.



Please, we're all eager to hear about a good program so that we may point struggling parents to a place that won't actually abuse and neglect their child."

DysJunc~

It appears to me that you are confusing me with ANON (Andrea).  I did not engage Nihl.  I did not bash him.  In fact, I never even responded to him. I refuse to respond to judgmental name calling.  I am not at an "utter loss" to refute his arguments.  It would be a waste of my breath.  



Insofar as you think me acting childish.... well I just plain don't get that.  Sounds a bit like the pot calling the kettle black.



As I explained earlier, I am not willing to disclose the program my daughter attended.  Would be like a lamb being led to slaughter.  No thanks.



I was told that I had no business telling my daughters story.  That it was her story alone to tell.



So, the bottom line is this.  If you truly want to affect change, you are going about it ass-back wards IMHO.  Instead of attacking people who are really trying to understand the ugly side of this institution, I suggest you be a little less hostile and a little more approachable.



If I was a less gritty person, for sure I would have high tailed it out of here after my first reading.  But, I really, really want to hear your stories, suggestions, and ideas to better regulate this industry.



You know the old adage.... you attract more flies with sugar.



Try to imagine for one minute that I am a parent who deeply cares about kids (mine and others who are very troubled).  That I am a parent who made a responsible placement for my cherished child.  Imagine for a minute that she was not abused, and is not scarred from her experience.  Imagine that it may have addressed/alleviated some very serious emotional, psychological, and social issues in her life.  Imagine that there are caring individuals (professionals) who really desire to help kids and are not motivated by financial recompense.  And then maybe, we can have a dialog and learn from one another.



"

I guess you're more concerned with talking than listening.

Nowhere in the post that you QUOTED, but apparently did not read, did I address you.  I addressed only the person whom I quoted (bashing anon).  That person is not you (I assume, since you have a username) and is acting the fool, to say it nicely.

How is anything I said "the pot calling the kettle black"?  I simply pointed out that, once again, there are programmies here that like to bash others and will go to extrordinary lengths to avoid reasonable discussion.

Either you can't comprehend what I'm saying or you choose to plug your ears.  Either way, it's clear that you, Truth Seeker, do not in any way add to the dialogue here.  You won't even name the program that you support.  If it's so great, why not get some free advertising?

So, if you're looking to engage me, AT LEAST READ what I wrote.  Don't go thru the trouble of quoting my posts if you're not going to read them.

So, get real, lady, talk facts or get lost.

[Troll Control]

On 2005-08-13 07:18:00, Truth Searcher wrote:

"

On 2005-08-13 05:26:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:





You're very fond of saying you won't discuss the particulars of your child's placement because it "leads to bashing,"  but you sit here and bash just the same.



If you don't like Niles, fine.  Don't engage him then.



That being said, you are still just acting like a child, using ad hominem attacks and attempting to "character assassinate" someone who you don't even know, simply because you are at an utter loss to refute his arguments.  



Try acting like an adult for a change and EXPLAIN exactly WHY "your program" is a good one.  Name the program, explain how your child was diagnosed and with what disorder and tell us how the treatment plan that your program drafted addressed your child's psychological and social maladaption.



Please, we're all eager to hear about a good program so that we may point struggling parents to a place that won't actually abuse and neglect their child."

DysJunc~

It appears to me that you are confusing me with ANON (Andrea).  I did not engage Nihl.  I did not bash him.  In fact, I never even responded to him. I refuse to respond to judgmental name calling.  I am not at an "utter loss" to refute his arguments.  It would be a waste of my breath.  



Insofar as you think me acting childish.... well I just plain don't get that.  Sounds a bit like the pot calling the kettle black.



As I explained earlier, I am not willing to disclose the program my daughter attended.  Would be like a lamb being led to slaughter.  No thanks.



I was told that I had no business telling my daughters story.  That it was her story alone to tell.



So, the bottom line is this.  If you truly want to affect change, you are going about it ass-back wards IMHO.  Instead of attacking people who are really trying to understand the ugly side of this institution, I suggest you be a little less hostile and a little more approachable.



If I was a less gritty person, for sure I would have high tailed it out of here after my first reading.  But, I really, really want to hear your stories, suggestions, and ideas to better regulate this industry.



You know the old adage.... you attract more flies with sugar.



Try to imagine for one minute that I am a parent who deeply cares about kids (mine and others who are very troubled).  That I am a parent who made a responsible placement for my cherished child.  Imagine for a minute that she was not abused, and is not scarred from her experience.  Imagine that it may have addressed/alleviated some very serious emotional, psychological, and social issues in her life.  Imagine that there are caring individuals (professionals) who really desire to help kids and are not motivated by financial recompense.  And then maybe, we can have a dialog and learn from one another.



"

I guess you're more concerned with talking than listening.

Nowhere in the post that you QUOTED, but apparently did not read, did I address you.  I addressed only the person whom I quoted (bashing anon).  That person is not you (I assume, since you have a username) and is acting the fool, to say it nicely.

How is anything I said "the pot calling the kettle black"?  I simply pointed out that, once again, there are programmies here that like to bash others and will go to extrordinary lengths to avoid reasonable discussion.

Either you can't comprehend what I'm saying or you choose to plug your ears.  Either way, it's clear that you, "Truth Searcher," do not in any way add to the dialogue here.  You won't even name the program that you support.  If it's so great, why not get some free advertising?

So, if you're looking to engage me, AT LEAST READ what I wrote.  Don't go thru the trouble of quoting my posts if you're not going to read them.

So, get real, lady, talk facts or get lost.[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2005-08-13 07:56 ]

[Truth Searcher]

"If it's so great, why not get some free advertising?"

Ummmmm ..... that would be like advertising beef products on a forum designed, run by and frequented by vegetarians.  Make me laugh...  :lol:

[Troll Control]

Like I said before, some of you people are so full of shit it's not funny.

What you're saying is that you'll only talk with program sycophants.  It's an extension of program dogma, people.  Plain and simple.

You're a programmie though and through.  You have no intellectual or social interest in this industry.  If you did, you'd be open to MEANINFUL DEBATE on its MERITS.  You aren't at all interested in that.

I'll ask you the same thing I ask others like you:  What is your purpose of posting here?

[Nonconformistlaw]

Truth Searcher Said-----"Try to imagine for one minute that I am a parent who deeply cares about kids (mine and others who are very troubled). That I am a parent who made a responsible placement for my cherished child. Imagine for a minute that she was not abused, and is not scarred from her experience. Imagine that it may have addressed/alleviated some very serious emotional, psychological, and social issues in her life..."-------

Yes, I can imagine every last word you said here...That is exactly, word for word, what my father truly believed about my program experience.

It has taken nearly 20 years to finally start explaining to my father, in very small doses I might add, exactly how much damage & pain that program caused me, and to finally have the guts to tell him the place routinely abused children, and routinely employed practices including coercion, humilation, etc...just to name a few, to get the "miraculous changes" you spoke of.

Know why I kept all this from him? Aside from the fact that I just didn't want to think about it much less talk about it, I just didn't have the heart to tell him. Because I know he put me in Straight because he cared that much about me and truly thought he was doing the right thing. Not to mention the fact that Straight was an expert on playing on a parent's worst fears, by telling them I would end up dead or in jail if he didn't place me there. Anyway, I knew revealing what really went on in that place would break his heart.

So, although I would be happy for you and your daughter if that program experience was truly beneficial, I hope that you consider that there is another possibility, and there is a whole other side to the program debate. ::rainbow::

[Truth Searcher]

"What you're saying is that you'll only talk with program sycophants"

Hellllooooo..... would I be here if my only interest was talking with sycophants. I think not.
I am trying to have meaningful discourse.  But, it is a little difficult when one is met by hostility and judgment.  How can we have meaningful discourse when all I am able to do is talk from a defensive position.  Good grief.... I'm not the enemy, except perhaps in your own mind.

"What is your purpose of posting here?"

Well if you refer to my original post, that would answer your questions.  No hidden agenda.

[Antigen]

What hostility and judgement? Someone asked you a perfectly reasonable question and you went all paranoid. I suspect there's a good reason why you don't want to talk about the program where you placed your daughter. I expect that it's probably one with which we're all very well familiar.

I do not believe in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance.

--Thomas Carlyle

[Truth Searcher]

Nonconformistlaw~
Thank you for sharing that with me.  That is why I am here.  Do I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I did the right thing?  No.  I probably will never know that.  Anymore than knowing that weaning her at 12 months instead of 24 months was the "right" thing.

I only know that I did not know what else to do.  

If it was the wrong decision, I am open to her telling me that.  I am even open to telling parents to never send a child to a program, if I come to believe that it is never beneficial and never a resort (even a last one).  Since we placed our daughter people are coming out of the woodwork to talk to us about our decision.  And I feel some responsibility to them and their children before sharing our experience.  I would never want to steer someone toward a placement if it is not in the best interest of that family.  

I honestly came to this forum to learn about other people's experiences.  But, God, I'm about ready to pack my bags, as I can't seem to get some others to understand my true desire to see the other side of the same coin.

I guess the label "parent" has labeled me as a pariah.

[Antigen]

On 2005-08-13 09:51:00, Truth Searcher wrote:

I guess the label "parent" has labeled me as a pariah.

No, that's not it. There are quite a lot of parents who post to these forums regularly. It's got to be something else.

Government can do something for the people only in proportion as it can do something to the people
http://lfb.com/?stocknumber=FF7485&code=10247' target='_new'> Thomas Jefferson.

[Truth Searcher]

"What hostility and judgment?"  OMG Antigen... you can't be serious.  This must certainly be a rhetorical question.
How about ....
"you're going to discredit what she went through because you still want to play victim and have a pity party and celebrate how 'strong' you are?" for starters.

If you don't feel that this has been a hostile post, and the judgment has been doled out generously then I question your sensitivity toward such matters.

[Antigen]

That's just one person. Several others just want to know which program we're talking about. It just seems a little crazy to try and have this discussion w/o knowing that basic fact.

Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.
--Philosopher, Blaise Pascal

[Deborah]

What you may not know, is that unless your daughter was in a very unique and 'exceptional' program, she would have frequently heard those exact words. And possibly much worse.
In which case, would she have been the victim of hostility and judgement OR involved in a 'therapeutic' process?

[Troll Control]

On 2005-08-13 10:20:00, Antigen wrote:

"That's just one person. Several others just want to know which program we're talking about. It just seems a little crazy to try and have this discussion w/o knowing that basic fact.

Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.
--Philosopher, Blaise Pascal

"

Oy vey.  Enough already.  Get ready for the next installment of "Deflection Theater."

People like this DON'T WANT REAL DEBATE.  They just want to hear themselves talk and, as Niles correctly pointed out, have pity parties for themselves when others don't subscribe to their point of view.

If she tells you the name of the program, she'll have to live with the "consequences."  Poeple are going to disturb the little vacuum bubble she lives in.  She's too afraid to have her viewpoint challenged and maybe have to reevaluate her position/thinking.

That ain't gonna happen.  I can tell you that right now. It's unprogramerican to think critically.

_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality"

-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2005-08-13 11:06 ]

[Anonymous]

I am not anon, I always state my name, and so because others have failed we all give up is that the attitude?  I am not giving up on these kids and am not asking you Ginger to Censor at all that is not a good way to go either.  I am asking that people understand that parents do things sometimes out of desperation and it is not my role or the role of anyone elses to fault them for it, can't they be informed without being bashed?  I again post my name at the bottom of my posts and do it all the time so please don't confuse me with others.
Andrea

[Nonconformistlaw]

Truthsearcher said-----"I guess the label "parent" has labeled me as a pariah."

Although I am not trying to speak for everyone,   if you read other threads, you will notice that certain trolls, usually posting as anonymous, always stir things up, regularly slander people posting her, never support their positions, refuse to supply facts for their position, are always extremely secretive, and label program survivors as liars every chance they get. Motives of such individuals are highly suspect, and so I believe many people here get very "defensive" if someone comes across the way I just described. Not saying you are these things mind you, just trying to shed some light on why you might feel as though you've been labled as a "pariah parent."

That said, I can say from personal experience here, that it is extremeny frustrating when a parent comes along, talks about how great these programs are, and absolutely refuses to listen to the other side. I for one am very sensitive and react strongly to such individuals because I KNOW how horrifying many of these places can be. Maybe this comes across as hostile sometimes, maybe it doesn't.

Again, not trying to speak for everyone, but it's clear that posters here have extremely strong feelings about programs or else the would be here. And their feelings are valid, including mine and yours, and even the feelings of the "hostile ones." BTW, there are plenty of parents here that get quite a lot of good feedback.