Concern for a "student"

[Nonconformistlaw]

But yet very defensive...

....HEY, we finally agree on something at last! You are VERY amusing! Have a wonderful and delightful evening! ::rainbow::

[Troll Control]

On 2005-08-14 14:10:00, Anonymous wrote:

"The previous poster was pointing out how full of shit you are Dysfunction-  you claimed the kids were given no gear and he proved you wrong.  Everything you say is just fiction and it is nice to have someone point it out.  The issue wasn't wether the gear was worth the fees.  It was that the kids were not out in the wilderness without equipment.  You LOVE to dodge the issues, don't you.  And you accuse others of doing that!!!"

Hey moron, this is what I said: "They give the kids virtually no gear, no facilities, no medical treatment, hardly any food and supply a couple of uneducated, untrained staff that get paid $400.00 per WEEK. Make no mistake about it, they're RAKING IT IN."

I guess you must be functionally illiterate.  I sad "virtually no gear, " not no gear.  I agree they are given some gear.  The question is, is a pair of boots, a parka and a backpack adequate equipment to survive in a harsh environment?

Glad to see you didn't argue the point about no facilities and no medical care and not enough food.  That shows that you think it's just fine.  

It also shows your materialistic nature.  You're more concerned that your kid has boots than access to a doctor.  You're a REAL WINNER, lady.

How many nights have you spent with minimal gear out in the woods when it's 40 degrees at night?

Probably none.  

You were most likely too busy drinking highballs and sniffing cocaine to worry about how junior was doing out there.

"He'll be fine, they're experts.  Pass the mirror, will ya?  I can't believe the sacrifices we have to make.  I could only score TWO grams for the party..."   :wave:

[Troll Control]

On 2005-08-14 20:18:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I am not a lawyer. Why do you care WHAT or WHO the Anon people are? There are obviously many different ones and most probably don't know each other. Once again, it doesn't take a program parent, employee, ed consultant, or lawyer to see through the blind bashing of programs some of which are perfectly fine. Some are not, but the slant of these boards is to make the assumption that every single facility in the United States is a horrible place where abuse takes place daily to every student and where every director/owner, whatever is out to make money and nothing else. A little bizarre to say the least!"

Name ONE SINGLE PROGRAM that is a not-for-profit.

Name a few that you consider "just fine."

Then we'll have something to talk about.

Probably won't respond, except with vitriol.

"Ben's Full-of-shit-Dad" and "KareninDallas" ride again!  Welcome back!

[Anonymous]

I don't know either one of those people other than to see their names mentioned on this board. The fact that someone wants to be able to pay their mortgage and car payment and have a 401k does not make a program owner a criminal anyway. Once again, Dysfunction, your generalizations and "know it all" attitude are extremely narrow minded. I find it comical that you think you know who every Anon is  :razz:

[Troll Control]

On 2005-08-14 19:42:00, Anonymous wrote:

"If you think I have a child currently in a program or had a child in a program previously, you are incorrect. I have never had a child in a program, nor do I work for a facility, nor am I an educational consultant. Just because someone disagrees with your position does not make one a program parent. Sometimes, Deborah, you do not know everything. You assume alot but that does not make it fact. I cannot speak for other Anons posting on this board, but I personally, am no program parent. "

I think you're Karen's sister... :lol:

[Troll Control]

On 2005-08-15 07:27:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I don't know either one of those people other than to see their names mentioned on this board. The fact that someone wants to be able to pay their mortgage and car payment and have a 401k does not make a program owner a criminal anyway. Once again, Dysfunction, your generalizations and "know it all" attitude are extremely narrow minded. I find it comical that you think you know who every Anon is  :wstupid:

_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality"

-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2005-08-15 07:35 ]

[Shortbus]

Does it really matter whether a program is not for profit? It usually just means the management staff/owners pull a bigger paycheck.

[Antigen]

On 2005-08-14 20:18:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I am not a lawyer. Why do you care WHAT or WHO the Anon people are? There are obviously many different ones and most probably don't know each other. Once again, it doesn't take a program parent, employee, ed consultant, or lawyer to see through the blind bashing of programs some of which are perfectly fine. Some are not, but the slant of these boards is to make the assumption that every single facility in the United States is a horrible place where abuse takes place daily to every student and where every director/owner, whatever is out to make money and nothing else. A little bizarre to say the least!"

No, usually the anons who hang around for any lenght of time have some direct tie to "the industry". And they often invite ppl they know to join it (as w/ any other area of interest). And people also tend to contact others privately; to make friends after they come along here. So, generally speaking, the anons and the people who post under a handle do know each other to some extent.

It is not at all bizarre to wonder what someone's interest or connection to "the industry" is. In fact, it's rather unusual (though welcome as anything) when someone comes along who has not got a personal stake in it, aside from just a general interest in social affairs. It does happen, but it's not the norm. So it's not the least bit bizarre for someone to assume that an interested, avid reader/poster to these forums has some sort of connection to the industry.

Now, about "the industry". Note that there's not a single forum dedicated to the Groton School or Catholic schools (though there are a good many references and comparisons) They keywords, proper names and terminology all coalesce around that segment of businesses that self identify as "the troubled teen industry." So far, I haven't found a single business operating under that banner, that does not encompass at least some of the old Synanon based methods. It's almost a safe bet that, if it's advertised in the usual parent as pseudo professional consultant type settings, what they're selling is something very similar to that.

Show me one that doesn't fit that profile? Show me one that does not take involuntary students, does provide a means of redress for the student, does not employ controls on communication and other thought reform techniques. Go ahead. Name the damned place, please!

What experiences and history teach is this-that people and government never have learned anything from history, or acted on principles deduced from it.

--G.W.F Hegel (1770-1831)

[Anonymous]

http://www.eckerdyouthalternatives.org/ ... tions.html


http://clk.about.com/?zi=1/XJ&sdn=priva ... school.com


http://www.mtcarmelyouthranch.com/

There are more

[Troll Control]

OK, then, how about a NON-PROFIT?

Here's an update from the NY Times about the great gear kids get for their "wilderness vacation" :

"Kids are then given standard issue khakis, a T-shirt, a bandanna and a pair of hiking boots. They get a tarp, a wool blanket, 20 feet of parachute cord and 12 feet of strap, and from those items must learn to construct a backpack in which to store their sleeping bags and ground pads, water bottles, water purifier drops, enamel cups and week's supply of food: rice, lentils, raisins and oats."

This refers to RedCliff, one of the "better ones."

Here's some more from the NY Times about KareninDallas and Full-of-Shit Dad:

"I asked Schill about this as we sat talking in the RCA office the evening I returned from the field. "Yeah, we get some pretty low-functioning parents," he said. "Sometimes we'll call the parents to come for the graduation ceremony and they'll say: 'Can you hold my kid for a couple more weeks? We're going to be on vacation.' "

Karen: "Gotta finish up that vacation!  The kid cramps our style.  Be back in a few weeks.  Send me the bill!!"

Some more...

"I could not keep from wondering about their parents. "I'll tell you what," Steve Peterson said to me at the RCA field office. "I'd like to get some of these parents out in the wilderness for a couple of weeks. I had this one dad who called me up saying the program didn't work, and he wanted to send his kid back. I asked him why, and he said, 'Because the kid stole my marijuana stash.' "

Full-of-Shit-Dad:  "Ben, you smoked my shit again!  That's it, back to wilderness for you.  I can't BELIEVE IT!"

Gotta love the hypocritical programmie-types!   :nworthy:

[Antigen]

The Reputation Grows
By 1982, the State of Florida, impressed with the success of Eckerd wilderness treatment, asked EYA to operate the first private juvenile justice program in state history. Today, Eckerd operates many juvenile justice programs, each recognized for its positive, rehabilitative approach.

Interesting! I never knew there was such a thing as voluntary participation in juvenile justice programs!

Seriously, I knew a kid in Straight who had been through Stop camp; one of the Eckerd programs. And he was willing to do anything to get back there. Though it was never quite as bizarre or intense as Straight, it was essentially the same program w/ a "wildnerness therapy" wrapper.

I'd love to meet some more people who have been through the Eckerd programs. I bet they'd have much to add to the discussion.

I hold it to be the inalienable right of anybody to go to hell in his own way.
--Robert Frost, American poet

[Troll Control]

On 2005-08-15 07:56:00, Anonymous wrote:

"http://www.eckerdyouthalternatives.org/contribute/donations.html





http://clk.about.com/?zi=1/XJ&sdn=priva ... school.com





http://www.mtcarmelyouthranch.com/



There are more

"

Eckerd is COMMUNITY-BASED, not TBS.  It's the type of treatment professionals reccommend and has no resemblence to the programs talked about here.  

More of you Struggling Turkeys should donate to places like this, rather than sending your kids off for "wilderness therapy, " proven by longitudinal scientific study to be a failure.

Get real, post YOUR PROGRAMS...

[Shortbus]

Im not trying to play devils advocate but what kind of gear do you think these kids need when they are out in the desert. If you dont need to worry about bugs or rain do you really need a tent? Especially if the weight of their packs is an issue?

[Anonymous]

On 2005-08-15 07:56:00, Anonymous wrote:

"http://www.eckerdyouthalternatives.org/contribute/donations.html





http://clk.about.com/?zi=1/XJ&sdn=priva ... school.com





http://www.mtcarmelyouthranch.com/



There are more

"

From the HEAL site:

"Mount Carmel Youth Ranch is located in Powell, WY.  Based on their own description at their website at http://www.mtcarmelyouthranch.com/long_ ... ogram.html as of 9/1/04 they use a 10-level system to modify behavior.  Behavior modification is a clinical euphemism for brainwashing.  They also list homosexuality as a mental disease/behavioral problem.  Based on this minimum of information we find Mount Carmel Youth Ranch to be suspicious. If you have firsthand experience of abuse or had your rights violated by Mount Carmel Youth Ranch, please contact us so we may post your experience here as a warning to others." Definitely sounds fishy.

[Deborah]

Mike Wiltsie's mom might have a different opinion of Eckerd
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#49926

No charges filed
http://www.sptimes.com/News/022400/Stat ... per_.shtml

http://www.beachbrowser.com/Archives/Lo ... -Death.htm

The boys, ages 11 to 17, are required to keep the campground clean, cook their own meals twice a week and design their own tents.

They definitely have similarities with other BM programs.