Against My Better Judgement

[cleveland]

You're right, she was a very nice person. It wouldn't suprise me that she went to private school! She did lead raps, but that wasn't really her strength. She was on staff when I came in in 1978 and when I left in 1985.

She treated me like an actual person, not as a generic seed kid. I could tell the difference - she looked me in the eye, she listened to me, and I felt like a human being (by the way, I felt this way with Lybbi too). I trusted her. Maybe I was secretly a little pleased when she was started over, because by that point, I had started to question the seed dogma and the people I really liked were a little outside of the power structure. I counted her as one of 'us', in a small way.

[Anonymous]

She married Roger .....  Maybe their dating had something to do with Cookie being started over?  I don't know whether Roger was still involved in The Seed when they began seeing each other or not.

[Anonymous]

No... they got together years later and I thought we didn't use last names.  You seem to remain anonymous, why shouldn't he be able to?

[Ft. Lauderdale]

Greg or Antigen,
Can you please take out the last name of the above post.  I really don't think its fair to have it on here.

 :flame:

 :smile: thank you ahead of time[ This Message was edited by: Ft. Lauderdale on 2005-08-18 11:09 ]

[Antigen]

Well, I can't speak for Greg, but my policy is to only edit material at the request of the author. So anon, if you agree and want the post edited, just ask. If you use the form at http://fornits.com/comnt.php it'll save me a step of research in verifying authorship.

I have always thought that all men should be free; but if any should be slaves, it should be first those who desire it for themselves, and secondly those who desire it for others.  Whenever I hear anyone arguing for slavery, I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally.

--Abraham Lincoln

[Anonymous]

Ginger, I tried to send you the email, but am not sure it went through.  Please delete the last name.  I included it by mistake.  Thank you.

[GregFL]

Done.

[marshall]

Yeah walter, it is cliff n. I'm talking about. He's the staff member I identified most strongly with as a newcomer. Maybe because he was from the whole acid-hippy scene before going on to shoot drugs. Cliff led a lot of raps while I was there. Really liked the guy. So he never mentioned to you about what happened either? Cookie & I were on front row together. She came in slightly before me.

[Anonymous]

This forum is mind-blowing!  Had no idea it existed.  Heck, I thought former seedlings kept the fact to themselves.

I was dragged into the program at Ft. Pierce but graduated from Ft. Lauderdale.  Reading everyone's posts has shown me that I am still carrying some unwanted baggage from that period in my life.  (And, yes, JU, it is all about me right now! :smile:)  

Anyone else out there from Ft. Pierce?  Anyone know what happened to the staffer, Scott?  He was the guy with the salt-and-pepper bowl cut.  Thanks!

[cleveland]

Marshall, yeah I really liked Cliff too - and his brother Fred - did you know him?

I have always liked that hippy vibe and I have reverted post-Seed to my true nature...

[GregFL]

Welcome Anon from Ft Pierce!

Scott is in Ft Lauderdale running a mortgage company and stayed involved, or so I hear.

Do us a favor...pick a user name and tell us a story you remember about when you were there.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the info on Scott.  I remember him because he seemed the kindest and most genuine of the staff to me.  

I choose not to register at this time under my name or a user name.  I may, at some time, change my mind and do so.

I guess my first vivid memory is running away from my old comer's house on day 14.  I waited till she was in the bathroom and bolted for the road.  I had been checking out the neighborhood from day 1, planning my escape.

I hid on the porch of a house that looked as though it belonged to 'someone cool'.  I then went to a church and told the pastor that I was, GASP, in the seed, against my will.  He really disliked the whole concept of the program and the secrecy so he bought me a bus ticket home.

24 hours later I was back on the front row.  28 hours later I was 'stood up' and reamed in chick's rap.

Most of my memories and feelings associated with that time period are sad, isolating and negative.
I never felt like I fit in or really believed a lot of the stuff we were 'suppose' to think.  In retrospect, I think we could have been called 'the Stepford Seedlings'.

FWIW, I am drug-free and rarely drink but I think it has more to do with the fact that I went right back to surfing and then got into running and triathlons.   I think it was the stuff I learned from those lifestyles that gave me discipline, integrity, a sense of self-worth, good friends and a lot of happiness.

Reading this forum has stirred up a lot of feelings that I didn't realize were buried.  I am going to have to take some time to process.

Thanks to those who started this site.  All the best....

[marshall]

No, didn't know fred. Hippy vibe...cliff was always talking about being in yoga ashrams, communes and that scene. Seems like he was at Haight Ashbury too. Seemed really intelligent. I remember someone reporting me for reading philosophy books (alan watts) & cliff called me outside & asked me about it. I expected a strong comedown but he just said it would be better to wait until after I got off my program before reading too much material like that, but said that also applied even to people reading the bible. I ignored his advice but graduated a couple of months later anyway. That was one healthy aspect of the program while I was there. It was understood that the seed was temporary and you were expected to lead your own life and make your own decisions after you left. I understand that had changed by the time you arrived. I agree with John U's analysis of Art being like a parent unwilling to let their child grow up and leave home. Funny, john has no trouble seeing some of the problems with the program after he left (or the copycat programs) but can't seem to fully grasp the ones that existed while he was (at least partially) in charge. Human nature.

Wouldn't it be cool now if Lybbi started posting too? I can easily imagine she & john flaming each other back and forth. :flame:  :lol: Then maybe Art could sign in and tell them both they need to be back on the front row!

[SMiamiPimp]

Stripe,

Can you expand on your term "emotional cripples"?

I am trying to think this through myself.

Is it like a form of institutionalization? The individual cannot or does not want to function outside the structure of the institution?

One aspect of alcoholic or drug addiction is the a set of behaviors and beliefs evolve in addiction that lead to a belief the person needs outside judgement to save them from themselve. IMO this is true to the extent of helping one break the cycle of addiction. So then the question becomes how does one regain healthy autonomy after breaking the cycle?

I will take a stab at it. I should say I love AA. But, there are lot of confused people there, like everywhere, trying to find there way and mixing truth with falsehood. When someone is coming out of addiction, they get hit with s**t like, saying "I am sober, you are not", or "you are in jail, I am not". "How far did your thinking get you..." Well the truth is, the person saying I am sober and you are not to put you in a one down position could be a total idiot, lunatic loser. When you first show up it is hard to tell who has something good going and who does not.

So I view it as part luck in finding the right people up front to set the stage for healthy development. And by healthy development I mean regaining self confidence and independent thought, rejoining society as a regular person ect.

I never got a chance to see how the Seed handled that because I spent the summers of 72 and 74  (when I was 15 and 17 years old) in the Seed (state road 84), never graduated (I just never got "it", whatever "it" was ever after ~4 months of 10x10x7) and never got a chance to see how they handled moving peaple back into the mainstream.

Can anyone tell me what the process was of become a oldcomer and graduating since I missed that "module" of the program?

I always felt like I missed something, important but was never clear what that was. Both times I was ejected all existing Seed members stopped communicating with me and looked and me like I had a death sentence imposed on my.

Questions:
1. What is meant by term "emotional cripple" as a result of being in the Seed.

2. How was the process of reintegration into the world outside handled by the Seed (or was it)?

[Antigen]

::bump::
Is anybody gonna jump in here? I might give my take on the questions later. They're very good questions. But I want to find out what ya'll think.

Allow the President to invade a neighboring nation whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such purpose, and you allow him to make war at pleasure. Study to see if you can fix any limit to his power in this respect, after having given him so much as you propose. If today he should choose to say he thinks it necessary to invade Canada to prevent the British from invading us, how could you stop him? You may say to him,--"I see no probability of the British invading us"; but he will say to you, "Be silent: I see it, if you don't."
--Abraham Lincoln