Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum
Note to John Underwood
Anonymous:
I just thought they made it up in that stupid Jodie Foster movie....
Anonymous:
Can?t make a comment on scientology, haris krisna, or the moonies never been a part of them don?t even know much about them. I can only comment about my experience at the Seed. The Seed never taught that some comet will fly by and we could hitch a ride to another world on it. I never once ever heard mention by anyone that Art was the incarnation of God on earth.
The Seed primary function or purpose was to get people straight by that I mean to stop using drugs or for that matter stop drinking. To lump the Seed into the same group as heavens gate or The Branch (Divedends?) seems to me a little harsh and we could argue this forever. To do this would be akin to taking a once of truth and turning it into 10 lbs of shit.
Are you saying that being honest, to work hard to love those around you are wrong?
All I?m trying to say is the ideas are and were sound (good and functional).Even if some of the teachers were flawed. I will not deny that the Seed did have some cultish elements hell that is why I left the Seed. Again I will only speak for myself, the lessons learned did me good and have served me right. I understand things better I'm better adjusted person and I can understand people.
I guess its in how I choose to look at my experience.
GregFL:
No,you just heard that
the seedlings were the chosen people to change the world.
Seedlings had "special powers of awareness" that allowed them to know what others were thinking
Art Barker had a hyper sense of self awareness and an extra capacity to love.
without the group you would de dead insane or in jail.
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quote: Are you saying that being honest, to work hard to love those around you are wrong?
------------
no, Im saying that redefining those terms is wrong. Seedlings were rarely honest. For instance, you couldnot express any doubts about art barker, could you? Didn't you have them? What would have happened for instance if you stood up and said "letting Art win at softball is just a big bunch of bullshit designed to feed his ego?
Honest? Hardly.
Love is the most commonly jaked phrase by cults of all. Love means you are in good standing with the group and little more. The minute you don't comply with any cult, they banish you. Where was the love for John Underwood, for example, when after 6 years they banished him and never again spoke to him for a simple disagrement?
Love? What a silly notion.....
And I NEVER compared the Seed to Heavens gate or the branch dividians. I compared them to the Moonies, scientologist and Hari Krisnas. One of the main differences was those places are voluntary, and their coercise mind control techniques aren't nearly as brutal. Go ask any one of them about their "ideals"..you may be surprised.
then again...there is that kool aide thing in common....
:grin:
Antigen:
No, you've swerving madly around the point. Nothing wrong with the stated ideals at all. It's the method that's messed up.
Do you understand why they'd do things like hang a toilet seat around someone's neck and then have the rest of group humiliate them? Never mind whether or not that sort of treatment is therapeutic or not. I think it's pretty clear to anyone that it's not. But it is effective and affective. Do you understand how it works?
Ok, how about monitoring people on the toilet? Why did they do that? How about dissallowing any contact with the outside world, including the parents who placed them there and who, presumably, were not olddruggiefriends? Why'd they do that? And why do they do exactly the same thing in all Synanon based programs, bar none?
Here's another example. Why place teenaged kids in positions of authority over new inductees? Didn't you ever feel you were in over your head when you were an oldcomer responsible for a newcomer? As an adult looking back on that, don't you think that's rather an odd policy? They don't trust you enough to have a bank account or even decide for yourself which job to take or when you need a treatment session. And yet, paradoxically, they trust you w/ the very life of another human being whom, according to Program dogma, is on the verge of suicide or insanity.
Do you understand the method of treatment that you received? Do you understand how it works? Why it works? And, more importantly, the side effects?
I cannot believe in the immortality of the soul.... No, all this talk of an existence for us, as individuals, beyond the grave is wrong. It is born of our tenacity of life -- our desire to go on living -- our dread of coming to an end.
--Thomas Edison, American inventor
--- End quote ---
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed Chicklett `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;
GregFL:
the moonies....
"The recruit is not left alone. As the neighbors of the Moonie encampment in Pope Valley have attested to, they walk in pairs. J. Isamu Yamamoto states in his book The Puppet Master, It becomes immediately apparent to you that you are not to be left alone and that all 'spiritual children' have someone of their opposite sex (seed-same sex) from the family assigned to them. If you should wander off by yourself(don't even try in the seed you will be tackled to the floor), someone will follow you and politely ask you to rejoin the group. You are even escorted to the rest room( and then ovserved and logged in the seed)." The book continues, "You also learn that there is a rigidly held schedule. There are specific times for eating, exercising, playing, singing, listening to lectures and discussing them. You are separated into small groups (boys rap, girls rap), led by a team leader who has to have perfect control, not approximate control. From the beginning, the leader directs his or her group like a kindergarten teacher, telling you when to do this or that."
If the leaders of the group should slacken in their enthusiasm or diligence, they are sternly reprimanded. The recruit is rarely permitted to engage in any casual conversation with anyone. They are only allowed to speak about spiritual(seedling) things within a structured framework. Creativity is frowned upon, conformity is stressed. "All day you are bombarded by ideas and concepts," states The Puppet Master. "There is little relaxation, and so your resistance is low. When you refrain from sharing or resist in any way, you are met with benevolent concern (come down sessions). Peer approval is an important technique which subtly tells you to conform. The family members aim directly at your most vulnerable points the need to belong, to feel useful and to feel love. Throughout the workshop you are flooded with affection, hugs, pats, hand-holding and smiles."
Recruits react to the regimental control by trying to please. "But, you quickly learn that the only way to please is to conform," The Puppet Master states. "You succumb many times to small acts of conformity without realizing it. You feel guilty when you hold back, and you are told that wanting to be alone is a symptom of fear and alienation." It is at this point that the recruit is asked to join the movement. The family member who has spent all the time with the specific recruit will beg and plead for the recruit to stay. "There will even be tears along with promises. They will continue to implore until you decide to join," The Puppet Master states.
After joining the Moonies, the recruit will be given about two weeks of adjustment....After the "losing period" the regimentation becomes even more rigid. The recruit is required to adhere to even more demanding workshop schedules. They sleep five or six hours a day. Their diet consists of starchy foods and low proteins.
Anything here ring any bells?
what about their ideals?
Here are a few...
Seek to become that master of love. Program your life like that, and you will never be a loser.
Open up the baggage of your mind and look what you find there.
We need to change our concepts. Our attitude is an environment that must be prepared in order to receive spiritual help.
The main differences between the moonies and the seed circa 1973 are as thus...
the moonies were voluntary (yet coercise) while the seed was not.
the techniques are much harsher and severe in the seed
the moonies had a religious element.
the average age of the moonie was 6 or so years higher.
This is for anyone struggling with the concerpt that you were in a cult.
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