Note to John Underwood

[Anonymous]

Greg -The one we referred to was the mustard seed of the old testament, I quote from the link below:

The mustard seed of the Bible lands is about 10 times smaller than the mustard seed in America and the west. It is a very tiny dark seed that is so small that if you were to get it in your eye you would hardly notice it. It truly is the "least of all seeds." The mustard plant that grows from this seed is also different from the western mustard plant. The Bible lands mustard plant grows into a tree the size of a fruit tree. To believe God is to act upon His Word. Belief is a small thing that produces great results just as the tiny mustard seed produces a great tree.
    The sycamine fig tree in the Bible lands is a tree with a tremendous root system that is deep and holds the tree tightly to the ground. Sometimes our own problems and needs may seem deep rooted and immovable. Yet, when we have belief in the word of God, "as a grain of mustard seed, " our deep rooted problems will be plucked up from the roots and cast into the sea. Nothing is impossible for God!

http://www.redbay.com/ekklesia/gladmust.htm

As you can see this was a pretty apt analogy for what "The Seed " was trying to "plant"

Chris Lewis

[Anonymous]

that is a bullshit justification from a religious website for the fact that all mustard seeds grow are bushes/plants. Nowhere will you find an actual tree.  


Read the actual passage from the bible...

  32Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

Now think about the old seed shirt with the little seed and the giant tree.

Now recognize the FACT that mustard seeds come from a plant, not a tree. The plant is an ANNUAL, and if you know anything about plants you will recognize immediately the ridiculous notion of this plant being a tree.

here is another link

http://www.culinarycafe.com/Spices_Herb ... ed%20.html

to wit:

General Description
Mustard Seed comes from two large shrubs, Brassica juncea (brown mustard) and Brassica hirta (white mustard), native to Asia. Both plants produce bright yellow flowers that contain small round seeds;

History/Region of Origin
Mustard was used in ancient Greece and Rome as a medicine and a flavoring. By 800 AD, the French were using Mustard as an enhancement for drab meals and salted meats.

and a description of the "tree" ( :grin: )


Plant Description and Cultivation
An erect herbaceous annual. The white variety (B. alba) is hardy, growing to 80 cm (30 in), with hairy stems and lobed leaves. The bright yellow flowers yield hairy fruit pods, 2.5 - 5 cm (1-2 in) long, each containing about six seeds.
Black mustard (B. nigra) is a larger plant than the white, reaching to 1 m (39 in). Some varieties reach double this height. The flowers are smaller, as are the fruit pods at 2 cm (3/4 in) long. The pods are smooth and bulging, containing about a dozen seeds. Because of its height black mustard does not lend itself well to mechanical harvesting and since the seed is readily shed when ripe, there is too much waste for most commercial growers. As a result it has almost completely been replaced by the brown variety.
Brown mustard (B. juncea) is similar to black mustard in size. It is the rai of India. The leaves are ovate and the pods are 3 -5 cm (1-1/4 to 2 in) long.
Mustard pods must be harvested before they burst, that is when they are nearly fully developed but not ripe.


Hate to burst your bubble.  This "parable" is akin to the bible calling bats birds..which it does.

The funny part is it was never challenged. The name of the seed was taken from an erroneous ancient parable that was based on a falsity.

Our giant "Mustard Tree" is actually an annual edible plant that reaches at its peak from 1 to 9 feet high depending on the variety and then it is harvested annually...ie; killed.  NO tree. Sorry.

Ahh, I think I'll cook me a batch o mustard greens and contemplate how this fits into all the other bullshit we bought hook line and sinker.


 :grin:  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:

[GregFL]

not to mention the previous poster claiming to have a Mustard tree in his backyard from a common kitchen mustard seed.

This annual  edible "tree" would grow to about 1 or 2 feet high and make an excellent salad.

 :grin:

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention...mustard plants are in the genus Brassica which includes Cabbage, cauliflower and Turnips.


I like my Mustard "tree" greens by boiling some smoked turkey neck first, then adding cut onion and pepper.

Try it!

 :grin:  :grin:  :grin:

[Anonymous]

I bow to your additional (& abundant) research, but as I said, analogy... you know symbolism... I think trying to somehow belittle the concept of the mustard seed based on the arguement that the symbol for the seed was actually a plant is kinda ridiculous, I mean you could argue it's really a weed dude...
CL

[Antigen]

I think it's just very apropos.

Madness takes its toll.  Please have exact change.
--Anonymous

[Anonymous]

On 2005-08-09 08:10:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I mean you could argue it's really a weed dude...

CL"

You could if it wasn't for the fact that it is an annual food crop...


The seed indeed.  Raise us from  a little seedling to big ole tree...er I mean a batch of Mustard greens.

 :grin:

[Anonymous]

If this gets into bible stuff, then was it a religous cult or a drug rehab cult?
Too funny:  that the debate is whether it's a bush or a tree.   :grin:

Here's the difinitve answer regarding the whole mustard seed reference - Book of Matther Chapter 31 (copied from  "ChrisitanAnswers" on the web.  Take it for what it's worth:

Please note that Jesus was not comparing the mustard seed to all other seeds in the world, but to seeds that a local, Palestinian farmer might have "sowed in his field," i.e., a key qualifying phrase in verse 31. And it's absolutely true that the black mustard seed (Brassica nigra = Sinapis nigra) was the smallest seed ever sown by a first-century farmer in that part of the world.

It's also true, as many modern-day encyclopedias will tell you, that the black mustard seed in Israel will typically grow to heights of 3.7 meters, or twelve (12) feet) -- plenty large enough to hold a bird nest.

BACK TO ME: So the bush/tree debate is much like the continuous debate we have - good seed vs. bad seed foundations...  

I suppose it's all how the bird  or seedling perceives the place where he wants to build his nest.  If it looks like a bush and the bird thinks it's a bush, then for that bird, it's a bush and probably not a good, safe place to build his nest.  

Similarly, if it looks like a tree and the bird thinks it's a tree, then the bird obviously feels safe enough to build his nest there.

See the analogy here between us seedlings, the nest and the birds?



Still no answer, though, is there?

[Ft. Lauderdale]

Its becomming hard to see the forest through the mustard trees. :rofl:

[GregFL]

no doubt that was copied from "christian answers".  12 feet is an exageration and again...it is an ANNUAL crop, not a tree.


here is a description from Botanicals.com of "black mustard plants....just to settle this.

Habitat---The Black Mustard grows throughout Europe, except in the north-eastern parts, also in South Siberia, Asia Minor and Northern Africa, and is naturalized in North and South America. It is largely cultivated in England, Holland, Italy, Germany and elsewhere for the sake of the seed, used partly as a condiment, and partly for its oil.
---Description---It is an erect annual, 3 feet or more in height, with smaller flowers than the White Mustard. The spear-shaped, upper leaves, linear, pointed, entire and smooth, and the shortly-beaked pods, readily distinguish it from the former species. The smooth, erect flattened pods, each provided with a short slender beak, contain about ten to twelve dark reddish-brown or black seeds, which are collected when ripe and dried. They are about half the size of White Mustard seeds, but possess similar properties. The seedcoat is thin and brittle and covered with minute pits. Like the White Mustard, the seeds are inodorous, even when powdered, though a pungent odour is noticeable when moistened with water, owing to the formation of volatile oil of Mustard, which is colourless or pale yellow, with an intensely penetrating odour and a very acrid taste.
....The Black Mustard is said to have been employed by the Romans as a green vegetable. The young leaves may be eaten as salad in place of those of the White variety, but are more pungent.

What you see on the internet by SOME (not all christians) is an attempt to make the scripture fit facts. They attribute it to other plants..they exagerate the size, they leave off pertinent information (the plant is an annual food crop). IF you poke around a bit, you will find christians that this topic really concerns that don't set out to justify innacuracies in the bible.


Up next, why is a bat a bird?   :grin:


Nevermind. Any more discussion on this should be moved.  We have effectively hijacked the thread. The whole thing started by a poster claiming he has a Mustard tree in his back yard, grown from a mustard seed from his kitchen.

The poignant question is why would he feel the need to lie?

[Anonymous]

Oh because you personally know him it could not be a lie?  Sounds like you've totally bought into it hook line and sinker.

[Antigen]

On 2005-08-09 11:11:00, Anonymous wrote:

I suppose it's all how the bird or seedling perceives the place where he wants to build his nest. If it looks like a bush and the bird thinks it's a bush, then for that bird, it's a bush and probably not a good, safe place to build his nest.

Similarly, if it looks like a tree and the bird thinks it's a tree, then the bird obviously feels safe enough to build his nest there.

See the analogy here between us seedlings, the nest and the birds?

Yes, precisely! It takes a good dose of credulity w/ a pinch of fantasy to remember The Seed in the glowing, happy way that some of you do. In order to remember it as having been all about honesty and integrity, you have to forget the myriad lies; 99% success rate, it was all invented by Art and based entirely on AA, a tiny little 16yo w/ a $1k/day h habit, marijuana is a gateway drug, "druggie attitudes" can be cured w/ the same bogus treatment as we use for heroin addiction. Never mind the many lies used to trick kids into going in the first place. How many ppl found out years after the fact that there never had been any damned court order? Oh, how about this pervasive gut buster "My name is _____, I'm a druggie, the drugs I did were pot, THC, this, that, the other thing I heard that other kid say..." etc.

Anyone here ever even seen THC? Was I the only one in the room who understood at the time that THC is a compotant of cannabis? That it never was avaiable as a seperate street drug?

Oh, and right down the line, the big, big lie; "I'd be deadinsaneorinjail w/o the Program" Bullshit! I'd likely have gone to college if Art hadn't spent my inheritance on his nifty real estate investments. Thanks, Art! Ya' fucker!

So, in summary, you're right about the logo. It's not a terribly important detail. Lots of organizations use symbolic logos and imagry. But you must admit that it is very apropos that this particular organization's chosen logo is based on a myth.

But the other important question; why does this guy feel the need to lie about it? I can't answer that. Why does he do anything that he does.

They serve so that we don't have to. They offer to give up their lives so that we can be free. It is, remarkably, their gift to us. And all they ask for in return is that we never send them into harm's way unless it is absolutely necessary. Will they ever trust us again?

Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;

[Anonymous]

post deleted for personal attack:


Reminder:  The SDF does not allow direct insultive posting for the sake of just insulting another person.  


GregFL

[Antigen]

Damn! Can you be a little more of a prick? I think I liked the cammo clad bull dyke image better. But no. I'm in shorts and a t-shirt. Just back from taking the kid to the doctor for a bad case of poison ivy. Come to think of it, I'm litterally a soccer mom w/ a mini van.

Are you quaking and shaking at the thought of people criticizing your vaunted cult and being allowed to roam free? That's how I picture you.

History does not record anywhere or at any time a religion that has any rational basis. Religion is a crutch for people not strong enough to stand up to the unkonwn without help. But, like dandruff, most people do have a religion and spend time and money on it and seem to derive considerable pleasure from fiddling with it.
--Robert A. Heinlen, American science-ficiton author

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed Chicklett `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;

[Napolean Bonafart]

WHOSE calling the kettle Black Antigen? You're all freemasonary anti-Christs on this site. Now enter your little deceptive quotation.

This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.
--John Adams, U.S. President

"Jesus came not to send peace but a sword" The Real SEED was sown thousands of years ago. Man in blue. Take action.
_________________
"Mine Eyes have seen the Glory of The Coming Of The Lord"[ This Message was edited by: The Root Of Jesse on 2005-08-09 14:04 ]

[GregFL]

hey "root of Jesse" ...go cut me some Mustard greens off the "tree"...Im hungry!

 :grin:  :grin: