Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Brat Camp

Ripping Off Native American Spirituality

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Anonymous:
Overlordd:  Think about it.  Of course there are differences between different NA nations' religions.  The Seminoles are a couple thousand miles away form the Navajo, etc.  It's a big country.

I don't know that the show 'ripped off' NA spirituality as much as pulled 2 or 3 generalized bits to make a new ritual.  Do you remember, did they actually call it a Vision Quest?

Shortbus:
I missed the last segment. Did the students and instructors appear to be practicing a religion or could you possibly consider what they were doing were symbolic gestures or maybe rituals? I think these things are different. Many families adopt rituals at major holidays-heck, not just at major holidays, at a special moment in a person's life. Losing a tooth, your first overnight away from home, your birthday, whatever. Lots of people celebrate Christmas but dont believe that Christ died for their sins. And there are lots of people driving around with dream catchers hanging from their rear view mirrors. Religions have many rituals but all rituals are not religeous. This group spends all their hours outside in the elements close to nature. They rely on their awareness of their surrounding to help keep them safe. It just seems natural that they would adopt certain rituals that would affirm this. Paganism, wicca, santeria, native american spiritualism, all of these are earth/animal based religions. Many of their rituals celebrating something similar. And I have no idea how many different indian nations there are in North America. And I am still wondering if Nations and tribe follow the same boundaries or if they are different. But it appears there are hundreds

OverLordd:
Well I know there are diffrences in idea that they have diffrent ideas, diffrent ways of living, diffrent ways of eating and such, but I thought their spirituality was pretty uniform throughout.

The differance between a family ritual and a ritual with these guys is that a family ritual is one of love and of togetherness. A program ritual is indeed not. the idea of symbolic gestures or rituals based off of a religion still makes it of that religion. The idea of christmas is still christian an nothing a person can do will take that away. A ritual of the native american religion is still of the native american religion. and if their tossing wiccan pagan and other rituals like that down kids throats its pissing me off all the more.[ This Message was edited by: OverLordd on 2005-08-06 08:54 ]

Anonymous:

--- Quote ---On 2005-08-06 08:53:00, OverLordd wrote:

"Well I know there are diffrences in idea that they have diffrent ideas, diffrent ways of living, diffrent ways of eating and such, but I thought their spirituality was pretty uniform throughout.



The differance between a family ritual and a ritual with these guys is that a family ritual is one of love and of togetherness. A program ritual is indeed not. the idea of symbolic gestures or rituals based off of a religion still makes it of that religion. The idea of christmas is still christian an nothing a person can do will take that away. A ritual of the native american religion is still of the native american religion. and if their tossing wiccan pagan and other rituals like that down kids throats its pissing me off all the more.[ This Message was edited by: OverLordd on 2005-08-06 08:54 ]"

--- End quote ---


ABC exploiting kids and families.

Wilderness Camps exploiting Native American culture and tradition.

Where does the buck stop?

Damn Vultures ... they should be ashamed of themselves preying on kids in the first place.

I hope the other wilderness therapy programs are happy that Sage Walk agreed to do this.  Personally I think the show does a good job showing parents just why they SHOULD NOT send their kids into the wild.

 :smokin:

Deborah:
They?ll rerun that segment the first hour of Wed?s program. Watch it and see what you think.
Yes, people have their rituals and traditions, but how many white people do you see painting the faces of and smudging their kid with a Sage stick when they loose a tooth or have a birthday or graduate high school, or before they open presents Xmas morning?

How many white people believe that smudging with sage removes negative energy from and around a person or environment? How many of those kids believed that they would be cleansed of the old behaviors after being smudged?

Why don?t they create their own rituals that do not infringe on and misrepresent NA spirituality?  They could require confessionals. Then make the kids run across a big open field from point A to point B, symbolizing leaving past behaviors (sins) behind and then force them to be baptized in a cold river. Then they could issue them all turbans and the same last names.

NAs would NEVER put a kid out on VQ (sagewalk?s solo) with such little regard for the kid. And the kid would NEVER be required to go or to stay out against their wishes. As I said, they are co-opting, have bastardized and misrepresented NA spirituality for their own gain.  

[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2006-06-11 13:32 ]

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