BRAT CAMP TEEN ARRESTED

[Deborah]

***I didn't think so. I think Frank pretty much just let it all roll off.

Ditto. I think Frank had the program pegged from the get go and how to do just enough to get by.

Why are they editing out all the 'private' counseling sessions with Isaiah and Frank???
What manly advice and guidance is Flying Eagle giving these two?

***Ok, so there are 12 people hanging around a camp fire. All of them want to stay warm. All of them have a few weeks practice and observation w/ tending a camp fire. How come none of the others said "Fuck this, I'll tend the damned fire."?

Because Fire Shaper declared that if Isaiah didn't build a fire there wouldn't be one. Guilt trip material. Sick the peers on him material. Several of the kids encouraged (begged) him. He relented.
Interesting too that when Isaiah flatly said No, I'm not doin it.
Nick goes, 'uh oh'.
I think they call it Peer Pressure.. aka Supportive Peer Culture. hehe
None of them want to spoil their chance of going home Xmas.

It was Lauren who questioned if the changes were 'real'. I think she was savvy enough to question, but have always seen her as a wilderness staffer in training.
Notice the expressions she makes, like when Derrick was dropping a load at the top of the repelling cliff, or Nick was being publicly humiliated in the cooking scene when he couldn't divide 15 by 3.
She also made some comment like, everytime there's something that needs to get done Derek's over there scrathing his ass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous 2005-08-04 09:28:00 Said ? ?MENTORING IS THE BEST SOLUTION plus anger management.?

Deborah  What is this 'outside' of wich you speak? 2005-08-04 10:28:00  Said --?I think he (and the others)needs someone who will take a vested interest in him and guide him- in the real world, not a program or jail. Help him find what makes him passionate. Where he could put his time and attention in a more constructive way. Perhaps he needs some career counseling and a good mentor in his chosen area of interest.?

I agree that mentoring, together with appropriate counseling is a great option and should be tried before more extreme interventions. I?m convinced that troubled kids need ATTENTION (not the negative kind of attention that acting out creates)!!!! Kids also need someone who LISTENS TO THEM!!!! From me personal experience of being a mentor 4 different times in various ways (Big Brothers & Big Sisters, juvenile detention mentoring, internet) three of the four kids responded positively to the experience. None made miraculous changes, but it was obvious that they took something valuable away from the experience. And I think radical behavior changes take much longer than any program?s time frame. If you?ve noticed, people change very slowly, and many people work on their issues their entire lives. Kids are no different. Change takes time?so obviously I think Mentoring should be a long-term friendship.

Also I think Frank in particular has a lot of potential even though its obvious he?s not ?embracing the program.? I guess I say that because I was a lot like him at that age (his attitude).

Shortbus 2005-08-04 10:29:00  Said ? ?And if you?ve got problems with authority its best to work for yourself. IF you?ve got the initiative and energy. Don?t like authority and don?t like to follow the rules... those are the types that make change happen.?

I completely agree?I wish more people realized that those kids who don?t follow the rules, live life their own way are potential innovators! Kids like Frank just need to learn how to channel their non-conformist ways into something healthy and productive that also suits their own interests.

Kris

[Jeff_Berryman]

I haven't been watching the show because I vowed to boycott ABC as long as it ran.  It's really poetic that the idol's feet of clay have been revealed so quickly.

I thought this show was going to glorify the industry and cause a boom in fly-by-night programs.  Things seem to be working out a little differently.  This may turn out to be the worst public relations disaster the industry has had in a long time.

[Deborah]

One can hope. But the next show is apparently already in the planning:

http://discuss.ctv.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=1707
i recently read a thread titled "exploiting kids for a profit" and one of the first lines read that the counselors dont care about the kids. this line upset me greatly in that i do work for one of the premier wilderness therapy programs in the country in south central utah and there is NOT one counselor or therapist or for that matter one employee of our company that does not care about any of our students. i do not feel that any one who works in the mental health field/ therapeutic field who does not care about the students or patients we work with. if we did not care, we would not be doing the work we are doing.

as a program we are the next "victim" to get a chance to be flimed by the 20/20 company that films the brat camp series; and i hope that if given a chance you all will watch the new one and see that there are programs who work hard to do the best work possible for the students.

i could go on for a long time in defense of our industry (wilderness therapy) but alas, i need to go to work tomorow for the next 7 days woirking with students who have all sorts of diagnosable disorders ranging from crystal meth dependence to attention deficit disorder. i also will be with the parents of these children on monday as the students i will see are completing their stay here in utah.

if you would like more information please email me at [email protected].

[AtomicAnt]

On 2005-08-04 11:56:00, Deborah wrote:

"

Did anyone see the trailer for PrimeTime that aired during BC?

Tonight: The Lost Kids Behind Bars

Teens in prison"

I'm going to watch it. I also picked up the newest issue of Time. The cover story is '13.' It purports to examine what it means to be 13 years old these days.  I haven't read it, yet.

[Anonymous]

I am just now catching up on this controversy. I am confused.  Deborah, from some of your prior involvement on strugglingteens and also on this site, I thought you were anti- programs. Now I see that you actually work for one!  If your program is OK, why is it that you say all the others are bad and that parents who send their kids are terrible parents?  Or, am I getting you confused with other posters.  There is a lot to digest over here and I have been gone for some time.  Please clarify.

[Deborah]

You are definitely confusing me with other posters.

[Anonymous]

Sorry-the way your post was stuctured it looked like YOU work for a wilderness program.  Silly me.  Looking back at your old posts it all comes back. You are the woman with the agenda to pay the world back for your kid going to Hidden Lake.

[Anonymous]

I watched about 15 minutes of the show and wanted to puke. I couldn't bear to watch these kids be put through hell, all while they were made to look like little punks. I think we should have all boycotted rather than watch the show.

Anyone get a chance to look at the TV Guide listing online? I did the other day and there were three WWASP ads below the listing for last week's Brat Camp. Three different web sites that all led to WWASP. Not surprised a bit.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-08-04 23:28:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I watched about 15 minutes of the show and wanted to puke. I couldn't bear to watch these kids be put through hell, all while they were made to look like little punks. I think we should have all boycotted rather than watch the show.



Anyone get a chance to look at the TV Guide listing online? I did the other day and there were three WWASP ads below the listing for last week's Brat Camp. Three different web sites that all led to WWASP. Not surprised a bit."

I know of at least one kid who got sent to Tranquility Bay because his father got the idea from watching Brat Camp.

[Anonymous]

Why are they editing out all the 'private' counseling sessions with Isaiah and Frank???
What manly advice and guidance is Flying Eagle giving these two?

So it's okay to make a girl tell the nation how she was sexually molested when she was twelve but now the counsellors have something to say they turn the cameras away.  I wonder what threats they are making that they don't want the audience to know about.

[Nihilanthic]

On 2005-08-05 01:31:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-08-04 23:28:00, Anonymous wrote:


"I watched about 15 minutes of the show and wanted to puke. I couldn't bear to watch these kids be put through hell, all while they were made to look like little punks. I think we should have all boycotted rather than watch the show.





Anyone get a chance to look at the TV Guide listing online? I did the other day and there were three WWASP ads below the listing for last week's Brat Camp. Three different web sites that all led to WWASP. Not surprised a bit."

I know of at least one kid who got sent to Tranquility Bay because his father got the idea from watching Brat Camp."

His father has to be the biggest moron on the face of the fucking planet.  :flame:

There is so much in the bible against which every insinct of my being rebels, so much so that I regret the necessity which has compelled me to read it through from beginning to end. I do not think that the knowledge I have gained of its history and sources compensates me for the unpleasant details it has forced upon my attention.
--Helen Keller, American lecturer

[Troll Control]

On 2005-08-04 18:14:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Sorry-the way your post was stuctured it looked like YOU work for a wilderness program.  Silly me.  Looking back at your old posts it all comes back. You are the woman with the agenda to pay the world back for your kid going to Hidden Lake.  

"

And you're the wretched little waste of space that relies on ad hominem attacks due to your cognitive deficiencies.

Nice to see ya again!  Wanna argue?  You have never been able even to respond coherently, but I'm willing to give you another chance.  I won't quit on you like you quit on your kid...promise!   :wave:

[Anonymous]

Now that is impressive,--I always thought of Dysfunction as a computer geek with no particular skills aside from the technical ones: but he spelled "ad hominem" correctly (not "ad hominum" which is wrong and is in the way most people spell it)

OK Dys--you've proven you're an intellectual---now you can relax and have a legitimate argument with posters like the last one who you are concerned has "cognitive deficiencies".

"Ad hominem" attacks are low brow, no question--- making cracks about somebody's "cognitive deficiencies": now just how would you evaluate that level of debate?

[Troll Control]

On 2005-08-05 07:35:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Now that is impressive,--I always thought of Dysfunction as a computer geek with no particular skills aside from the technical ones: but he spelled "ad hominem" correctly (not "ad hominum" which is wrong and is in the way most people spell it)



OK Dys--you've proven you're an intellectual---now you can relax and have a legitimate argument with posters like the last one who you are concerned has "cognitive deficiencies".



"Ad hominem" attacks are low brow, no question--- making cracks about somebody's "cognitive deficiencies": now just how would you evaluate that level of debate?"

What I would like to see is a debate (where ad hominem attacks are objectively extirpated) between this Struggling Troll and Deborah.

As for the "crack " I made...  This is solely in response to the name-calling and "low-brow" remarks made by this poster who STEADFASTLY REFUSES to debate the facts, but rather resorts to this type of behavior.  

If this person feels so secure about how they have treated their child, then why not open it up for real debate?  Why call names every time someone tries to engage this person in meaningful dialogue about the program to which she sent her child?