Author Topic: BRAT CAMP TEEN ARRESTED  (Read 19157 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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BRAT CAMP TEEN ARRESTED
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2005, 12:59:00 PM »
Guess what - the miltary doesn't want kids with a past either.... Go down to your local recruiter and tell him you like to get high, don't like authority and generally like to do whatever you want and see how quickly they show you the door.  If you manage to lie your way in (not sure why any teen with the above attributes would want to hide out in the military in the first place), they'll weed you out in boot camp.

Quote
On 2005-08-04 09:36:00, Shortbus wrote:

"Jail? And people complain about the money we spend on the military!!! At least in the military hed learn a trade and get the disciipline he needs. And probably a sound beating that make put a little sense in his head. Am not as pro-military as I sound but theres lots of....





1. STRUCTURE

2. DISCIPLINE



Sometimes you need it.

Prison, just another growth industry.
"
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2005, 01:20:00 PM »
The military is full of anti-social personalities (formerly known as sociopaths).

But yeah, they do get benefits and if he can make it through boot camp and then deal with the daily regimen as an enlisted man, he should join the marines.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2005, 01:27:00 PM »
It is so sad that this happened to this kid, I feel for him, and the parents quite frankly.  This whole concept of sending a child away to be fixed and the reality tv show thing is sickening.  We don't fix kids they are not mechanical things they are human beings.  Again shame on them!
Andrea
pfrr.org
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2005, 01:28:00 PM »
No, it was Isaish who warned kids to run if they thought they were going to be sent to a program.
Frank expressed, and appeared to prefer solo because he 'didn't have to be around the others'.

***He is home now and awaiting a juvenile court date. His mother, Virginia Alarcon, declined to allow him to speak with the newspaper. She told the Sun-Star last week that his behavior had improved since he returned from the wilderness school.****

Might his behavior have improved toward his mother in order to keep himself out of a return visit to sagewalk or some other program prison- TBS?
BM is HIGHLY effective in teaching kids how to hide the 'undesirable' behavior, how to be more covert with their 'undesirable' activites.

***Brat Camps Web site describes the boy as an,angry punk rocker who smokes, drinks and has an obsession with fire.***

What I've noticed to date is that the staff are working with the kids who are easier to intimidate and manipulate. Not much pushing on Isaiah and Frank. I assume because they are afraid of these boys anger and don't really have the tools to deal with it. The staff are just tip toeing around these guys, but proclaiming that they both are having momumental 'breakthroughs'.

Isaiah is the one who cried and said that he could now forgive his mother after reading her letter in which she admitted to the divorce being her fault.

I probably differ on this, but I thought the bow drill exercise was useful. I think their momentary joy of accomplishment was real. It could've been one of the first accomplishments some had experienced. But like an ol time revival, that joy doesn't stick. It's a temporary high and doesn't address the underlying fear, confusion, apathy, anger.

I think he (and the others)needs someone who will take a vested interest in him and guide him- in the real world, not a program or jail. Help him find what makes him passionate. Where he could put his time and attention in a more constructive way. Perhaps he needs some career counseling and a good mentor in his chosen area of interest. Perhaps a trade school instead of public school.

The question that parents and programs fail to ask- what are Isaiah's real needs that aren't being met? How can I assist him in getting those needs met.
NOT, how can a manipulate, trick, punish him out of his current behavior, which is but a manifestation of unmet needs.

Kids who have been largely ignored and backed into a corner are not going to ask someone to care about them. The risk of outright rejection and humiliation is too high.

Isaiah is also the one who told his friends on camera, they better throw him a party when he got out.

He obviously did not 'embrace' the program. He was obviously not 'helped' (by the program's definition). Why did they graduate him? Why didn't sagewalk keep him until he was 'fixed'?
His leaving would seem to be premature if the goal is to change the behavior.

My experience is that the behavior doesn't change until the thinking and feelings change. It would be incongruent to walk around 'acting' happy while there was a fire storm raging inside.
Forced 'treatment' and punishment (program/jail) are not effective.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2005, 01:29:00 PM »
so, Andrea.  What should the parents have done with this kid?  He was out of control.  your solution?
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Offline Shortbus

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« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2005, 01:29:00 PM »
Only if whats going on in your life now isnt working for you... otherwise there no sense in changing is there? What I meant was if the choice is military or jail, the military does a far better job of socializing someone than jail does. Ive had friends that were given a choice.... they chose the military and wound up excelling. The military is full of sociopaths toeing the line.

Tell anyone your priorities are getting high and theyll show you the door. I dont want to worry about losing my business because some knucklehead shows up to work with a bag of weed and decides to sell some to a customer on my property. Duh. And if youve got problems with authority its best to work for yourself. IF youve got the initiative and energy. Dont like authority and dont like to follow the rules... those are the types that make change happen.
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ts never too late to procrastinate

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2005, 01:40:00 PM »
Change is not a linear process. I would expect any kid would slip from time-to-time.

I wonder if the staff 'tip-toed' around Frank and Isaiah because of the presence of cameras. Would they have been less restrained if there were no impartial witnesses around?
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2005, 01:59:00 PM »
Yeh, that's my guess.

Fire Shaper was obviously sweating bullets when  Isaiah refused to take his directive regarding building a fire. And looked much relieved when he decided it was in his best interest (or he was tired of being cold) to do it.

He has issues with authority and the guy tells him in an authoritative tone to tend the fire.

He might have avoided all the discomfort if he'd of simply asked, 'hey Isaiah, you are a master of fire, how about building a fire for us tonight?'

If you're going to push a button, better be ready for a nuclear explosion.

As Isaiah said later, the only reason he didn't get up and pop him was because he didn't want to screw up his chances of going home by Xmas. Might've been good if they'd both put the gloves on and went a few rounds.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2005, 02:02:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-08-04 09:59:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Go down to your local recruiter and tell him you like to get high,"


I'm not kidding-- there was a news story about a high school senior, who went undercover for his school paper. He posed as a student interested in joining the army. He recorded his phone calls with the recruiter. He told the recruiter he smoked pot, and didn't think he would graduate. The recruiter told him to get a fake HS diploma online, and where he could go buy a speical drink that is designed to clean your system for pee tests! I kid you not! They are THAT desperate for bodies I guess, it made national news- I'll see if I can find a link.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2005, 02:09:00 PM »
here it is

Quote
A high school journalist goes undercover to find out just how far recruiters will go to enlist teens.

David McSwane had seen the military recruiters around town. He had seen them at the high school. And he knew that with recruitment rates down due to the Iraq war, they were working hard to attract new cadets. And it gave him an idea.

"I wanted to see how far they'd go to get another soldier," says McSwane, a reporter for the Westwind at Arvada West High School in Arvada, Colo. So he set up a sting investigation, posing as a high school dropout with a marijuana habit and went down to his local Colorado Army recruitment station to enlist.

McSwane, 17, knew he would have to document his conversations with the recruiters, so he taped the telephone conversations, enlisted his sister to pose as a proud sibling so she could photograph parts of the process, and asked a friend to operate a video camera across from a local head shop.

But how did McSwane get an recruiter to visit a head shop with him? Simple. The honor student, pretending to have a ganja habit he couldn't kick, went there to score a detoxifying kit the Army office claimed had helped two previous recruits pass drug tests, according to a taped phone conversation broadcast on local TV. McSwane told his recruiter he didn't know what the detox formula looked like, so the man agreed to go to the store with him.

Aside from his drug problem, McSwane said he had no high school diploma -- which at that time was true, as he graduated about two months later -- and that he had dropped out of high school. No problem, the recruiters told him. There are Web sites where anyone can order a diploma from a school they make up. "It can be like Faith Hill Baptist School or whatever you choose," one recruiter can be heard saying on one of the taped exchanges.

After the fruits of his investigation ran in the Westwind, there was a brief lull.

Then a Denver TV station picked up the story and ran with it, first airing McSwane's findings on April 28. Within a few days the boy's sting had made national headlines, and the U.S. Army froze recruiting operations nationwide for a day. (His two would-be recruiters were suspended.)

"It's been kind of cool to see a reaction from the Pentagon on a story done in a high school paper," the teen reporter says. He has appeared on local and national TV, and articles on his investigation have appeared in the Rocky Mountain News in Denver and The New York Times. One could understand if the school was a bit unaccustomed to all the media attention.

Rick Kaufman, a spokesman for Jefferson County Public Schools, said that after the initial report ran in Westwind, "the principal was very clear with David that the articles could not go any further into his undercover actions." Because the school paper is produced as part of a class, the principal reviews the paper prior to publication and has the power to spike any story.

McSwane says his scrupulous documentation has for the most part prevented naysayers from calling his investigation false. Still, he says, some have questioned the ethics involved in a deceptive operation like the one he orchestrated: "Any undercover investigation, you're going in there as a lie. And a lot of people don't like it."

In the fall McSwane plans to start on a journalism degree at Colorado State University in Fort Collins. But he's not taking it easy in the meantime. "I work retail graveyard shifts right now, because I've got to make money for college," he says, upon waking in the mid-afternoon. On his days off, he interns at the Arvada (Colo.) Press.

Like any good romance, McSwane's love of journalism started with something of an accident. "I guess I've always had a knack for writing," he says. "One day one of my English teachers just put me in newspaper class without my permission."

Graham Webster (http://www.alternet.org/wiretap/23737/
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2005, 02:56:00 PM »
Did anyone see the trailer for PrimeTime that aired during BC?
Tonight: The Lost Kids Behind Bars
Teens in prison
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2005, 03:27:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-08-04 09:31:00, Anonymous wrote:

 I thought if anyone would get in trouble afterwards it would be Frank


I didn't think so. I think Frank pretty much just let it all roll off. He seems to be the only authentic adult on set for this grotesque production.

If they can get you to ask the wrong questions they don't have to worry about the answers

--Thomas Pynchon, Gravity's Rainbow (Proverbs for Paranoids)

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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2005, 03:36:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-08-04 10:59:00, Deborah wrote:

"
As Isaiah said later, the only reason he didn't get up and pop him was because he didn't want to screw up his chances of going home by Xmas. Might've been good if they'd both put the gloves on and went a few rounds.


Ok, so there are 12 people hanging around a camp fire. All of them want to stay warm. All of them have a few weeks practice and observation w/ tending a camp fire. How come none of the others said "Fuck this, I'll tend the damned fire."?

I'm guessing is that whoever broke ranks like that would not have gone home for Christmas.

When you're on the hot seat in a situation like that, logically you know that's the case. But, when you're in a situation like that over an extended period under extreme stress and kept intentionally in the dark about everything (what happens next, where will we sleep, will we sleep, etc.) you begin to lose track of where the boundary lies between what you know and what you're seeing and hearing.

It can be most nerve wracking, `bleve it!

Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. For when you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you.


--Nietzsche

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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2005, 03:38:00 PM »
Did anyone else pique at, I think it was, Lexi's comments? If it wasn't Lexie, it was Lauren. But one of the girls said something to the effect that she couldn't be quite sure whether she was really changing or just bullshitting herself into thinking she was changing.

Any of you psyche pros and students want to take a stab at that? I could give you my take, but you'd only think I was projecting. And maybe that's so. But maybe not. Maybe I have a pretty good idea what that means because, under similar circumstances, she and I had similar experiences.

All penalties for drug users should be dropped...Making drug abuse a crime is useless and even dangerous...Every year we seize more and more drugs but the quantity available still increases...Police are losing the drug battle worldwide.


--Raymond Kendall ~ Secretary General of Interpol 1994

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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2005, 03:48:00 PM »
Sounds like a teenage verbal expression of "I want to relieve my cognitive dissonance.  It's killing me..."
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