Can these schools be seen as emotionally abusive? Rather tha

[Anonymous]

I was wondering if anyone out there could tell me there opinion about these behavior modificaton schools being in trouble for being emotionally abusive? For example a case severe enough that C.P.S. might have stepped in.

[Anonymous]

Of course these schools are emotionally abusive. In many places, inmates are constantly ridiculed, called names, and degraded. They are often forced to divulge personal, intimate information to strangers (information which later be used to break them down).

ISAC's Tranquility Bay report mentioned an incident in which a girl was forced to describe being raped (down to the tiniest details) in front of a group of 80+ other inmates, as well as the staff. When she broke down and started crying, she was told that what happened to her was her fault.

[Antigen]

Yes. It's just very hard to prove in court. Doesn't help, either, that all of officialdome seems to be tacitly ignoring the obvious fall-out over the past several decades.

Never in the history of any nation has an education system been so on the point of disintegration and decay as the education system in this country...We know that education in this country is as bad as it can be.  We know that it is old-fashioned, irrelevant, and not meaningful.
--U.S. Senator Abraham A. Ribicoff, 1970

[Deprogrammed]

This not only happened at Tranquility Bay........the same very thing happened in 1989-1990 in Kids Helping Kids in Northern Kentucky.
 Not to minimize the tranquility bay thing at all.
These "places" are all on different variations of the same format or some are even like carbon copies.

Exposing these people intelligibly and with decent dignity is the way to win "the war on drugs", at least part of the battle.

-DP

As your attorney, it is my duty to inform you that it is not important that you understand what I'm doing or why you're paying me so much money.  What's important is that you continue to do so.
--Hunter S. Thompson's Samoan Attorney

[Antigen]

Yup! Check this guy out.

http://springcreeklodgeexperience.blogspot.com/

the war on drugs is but one manifestation, albeit a very dramatic one, of the great moral contests of our age -- the struggle between two diametrically opposed images of man: between man as responsible moral agent, 'condemned' to freedom, benefiting and suffering from the consequences of his actions; and man as irresponsible child, unfit for freedom, 'protected' from its risks by agents of the omnicompetent state.
--Thomas Szasz

[Deprogrammed]

Antigen,
Damn the looks better than the urine stained and not cleaned "time out" rooms we were in in straight. I would also like to mention sometimes sperm filled "time out rooms".....disgusting to have to smell and see that if ye so would not normally choose to see that kind of thing. Especially, as a girl or boy going through puberty. The rooms from spring creek lodge just look a lil bit bigger....I estimate that the "time out" rooms in KHK( aka straight-midwest Inc.) to have been about  6X6-6X8. That is extremely small but it may have even been smaller than I thought.
They also did not have those "bunk looking" beds either......the spring lodge ones' look like a torture chamber as in, strap one down or something like that.Freaking creepy for sure!
-DP :scared:  

If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.

--Thomas Jefferson

[bandit1978]

It is easiest to prove abuse with documentation.

It should be recommended to any kid who goes to one of these places, that they keep a journal documenting everything they see, hear, ect... all their interaction w/ staff, and date these entries.  

Most places should not be reading a kid's journal, though some do.  These entries do not have to be accusatory or anything, just write down exactly what happens.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-07-27 05:58:00, bandit1978 wrote:

"These entries do not have to be accusatory or anything, just write down exactly what happens."

Even this would be too much for many places to tolerate.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-07-27 06:03:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-07-27 05:58:00, bandit1978 wrote:


"These entries do not have to be accusatory or anything, just write down exactly what happens."

Even this would be too much for many places to tolerate."

Not only that, but you have to remember the context of these teens incarceration. We are all thinking like adults, but being put in that type of situation is so overwhelming to most teens-- who really haven't experienced the horrors of the 'real' world yet-- that journaling everything you see, including abuses in an effort to later hold staff responsible is asking a bit much. In order to do this, not only would they have to wholeheartedly reject the program ideas in your own mind (which very few do while actually IN the program, almost all do AFTER they leave), but also put on a good show for staff that you are 'improving'. Otherwise you will never leave. If they found your journal, and noticed it was documenting staff behavior they would take it away immediately. You have no rights, they WOULD NOT think twice.

Just another perspective to think about..

[Anonymous]

If you did take a journal...

And if one of your bunk-mates should happen to read it, and they make higher levels before you, the staff will find out.

That's how the game is played in WWASP programs. Let's say Johnny has been in a lower level cabin for 12 months, working his way up to level 3 and staying there for a while, finally he makes it to level 4. Upper levels! Well good for Johnny, but bad for Johnny's old friends still back in the cabin.

Johnny now lives with Jr. Staff, who have much easier rules and get more privelages than the lower levels. They get just enough more treats than lower levels to keep them happy, and defensive about being 'dropped' back to lower levels for any rule violations.

The upper levels will convince Johnny, especially at seminars, if he doesn't spill the beans on what he knows, EVERYTHING he knows, he will be dropped. Accidentely tell Johnny (your best? friend) a secret? oops, big mistake! Or maybe I get up to the higher levels first and he uses the notebook thing against me in order to drop me back down, and possibly raise himself.

This is what life is like in a program. 24/7 emotional stress, knowing at any moment, for ANY reason you could be dropped to where you started. That's the equivilent to losing a year, two, or more of your life. For ANY REASON.

Unless you are wise [or shy] enough to not talk to anybody, you never quite know what everyone else knows about you.

It sucks.

[bandit1978]

I kept a journal at Provo canyon School, which was never read by anyone else (though I think they read the journal's of a couple of girls).

It is not necessary to "reject program ideas" , in order to document what happens.  Tell kid to take a few minutes each day to write these things down.  This may not be possible in every case, but surely it may work for some.  Tell them don't worry if some things seem insignifigant or petty, just make a note of it.  Reading back, years later, they will have another perspective, and these notes may just serve as evidence specific documented instances of abuse.  

I would be more inclined to make a statement or affa davit on my experiences, if I could cite specific dates, and if I had kept a journal there (I threw mine away long time ago.).  Yeah, if I had kept a journal like that, I would probably publish it.

[Anonymous]

A good source of info is if your parents kept your letters you sent home. Also if you kept your letters you sent to your parents. THey are a trip to read!

[Anonymous]

The fact these kids never know when they are going to go home is BIG TIME ABUSE.

Prisoners have more rights, including the right to know how long their sentence is, right to appeal, right to legal assistance, law books, etc.

[Antigen]

On 2005-07-27 11:21:00, Anonymous wrote:

Unless you are wise [or shy] enough to not talk to anybody, you never quite know what everyone else knows about you.

These programs are very much alike in a few basic ways like that.

I used to have a reoccuring Program dream. It was always about getting ready in the morning. My kids were newcomers and I was one of their oldcomers. I was trying to figure a way to get us all out and weighing the risk of dropping them hints so they'd keep hope alive against their getting brainwashed and ratting me out.

The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one.
--George Bernard Shaw, Irish-born English playwright

[Deprogrammed]

Anitgen,
I know that dream, unfortunately.
-DP

I cannot believe in the immortality of the soul.... No, all this talk of an existence for us, as individuals, beyond the grave is wrong. It is born of our tenacity of life -- our desire to go on living -- our dread of coming to an end.
--Thomas Edison, American inventor