Author Topic: New to Forum- Looking to hear from old staff and students.  (Read 12880 times)

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Offline sabro

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« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2005, 04:15:00 AM »
Until I found this board I could always entertain the illusion that we did good things- that the kids turned out okay...I spent an hour reading exchanges between Ottowa 5 and 2 and you and Shanlea and the big Serbian guy (who was there with you and I cant for the life of me remember or figure out who that is.) It tears me up. The worst of our fears as newbie staff members was actually true. It's one in the morning and I can't drop this thing. We thought: As long as the program was effective- the rest of the crap didn't matter. (How wrong I was.)

I was always thinking until the day I heard the school closed of how it could be fixed- of what kind of improvements needed to be made. (Carl Kent was in contact with me- I have an administrative credential and he was thinking of retiring soon.) I thought I could turn it into a real school- with real academics, and people more interested in helping than controlling.

It was always easy for me to simply dismiss the "true believers" on staff. The whole CEDU things means more to them than god. Guy is still a jerk- and I mean that in a NICE way. He's always getting himself in trouble for just doing whatever he wants. But he is an effective principal and runs a pretty good school. You have to remember too, I didn't work with Guy much, but Luke did and he can't even say the guy's name without a visceral response. (Remeber when Luke broke his foot and had to spend all his time supervising work assignments in the snow?)

I read the other thread about Russ and I am serious about the statute of limitations thing. A lot of people think he made stuff like that up, but who knows?

I still have the spoon and chopsticks I carved on our Wilderness Challenge. I remember following Kevin's finals group up and over some god-aweful snowed in pass and down through the bushes.

10 years after leaving Cedu I had to come in for a deposition on something.

And as for being proud- there were a lot of people, including you that I was proud to know- proud to see stand up to bullying and humiliation. Survival sometimes is the ultimate victory-- I think that's why I want to find out what happened to people. Just remember that the program was designed for heroine addicts, not kids with behavior problems on the fringes of the normal range. Even the "look goods" I respected- for finding something that worked.

Until now, the only Cedu kids that I ran into were in that sheep category- the guys that came up here to visit- the ones that stayed past their 18th birthday- that ask you ten years after the fact how you are doing with your "brothers." They did a lot to help preserve my illusions... but give me a bit more time to read more of these posts.

I called Luke to give him the web site, but no answer. (My version of "Finding Nemo")

I didn't want you to just leave pissed off like that for a couple of reasons: 1.Now I want to find out more and 2. I have this custom built car that I need your input on.

Like I said earlier- don't let them steal any more of your life.

1:15 am!

"The FARC is part of the history of Colombia and a historical phenomenon", (President Pastrana) says, "and they must be treated as Colombians". ... They come and ask for bread [aid from Washington], and you give them stones.

Robert White is a former American ambassador to Paraguay and El Salvador, and former No. 2 man with the U.S. Embassy in Bogota, is president of the Centre for International Policy in Washington D.C.
http://narconews.com/' target='_new'>Robert White

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ight a man a fire and he stays warm for a night...Light a man on fire and he stays warm for the rest of his life.

Offline CEDU IS A CULT

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« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2005, 11:12:00 AM »
You're a good man, Sabro.  I've found that although I was pretty much always consciously out of agreement, and in my mind, while I was there, I had a place to retreat in- that was only mine, and that I never revealed.  Kept my sanity that way, somehow, I guess.

But, I still find, my own words can be poison.  Is  that leftover from CEDU?

And I find that I think in absolutes.  Did I learn that there, too?  And I struggle to unlearn it.

I reflect, also- and often.  Always doing moral inventories- but I didn't learn that there.  CEDU's inventories were always delusional and manipulated and contrived.  Always shaped to fit into what "they" thought you should think or feel about who you were.

(NO, I'm not in any kind of 12 step group and never would be- its just not for me.)

Now, I believe in giving someone enough rope...to build a bridge- or hang themself.  And giving a man the dignity to make his own mistakes.

Maybe, I'm more pessimistic then you, and my thinking is maybe more dialectic.  Rather than trying to make CEDU correct, I'd rather see the idea behind it destroyed.

Poor Luke- I remember him well.

As far as Russ goes- I've done what I can.  I've reported it to the authorities and they claimed to be investigating it.  I tried to round up support on this site, but most people here are only out to find help for THEMSELVES, and that became obvious to me, so I haven't been here much.  I didn't come here to get help, I came here to help.  And in doing so, I got more than what I needed, in return.

I remember when Kevin's group foolishly bushwacked to find a shortcut.  Poor Sabro had to follow them, hiding in the bushes!  

Funny that CEDU was set-up originally for Heroin addicts. I only ever experimented with drugs before going to CEDU, but recieved NO real help or guidance or plan for how to stay off drugs after leaving.  With no recovery program at all, I don't completely blame CEDU of course, but after leaving CEDU within 2 1/2 years I was a heroin addict and struggled with it for nearly 8 years.  (I've been clean now for over 3 years, so don't worry, but yeah when we corresponded before I was deep into it.)

God, its great to hear that you're the same Sabro.    

What kind of car?  I'm a machinist and welder, but as far as motors go, I rebuilt my entire motorcyle engine with all new components in a 23 year old bike, (bragging a little, pardon me) but I'm not very good with cars.  If you need one off custom parts made from billet, I can help you- I do that all the time.

Take it easy.  (You wouldn't believe who my soon to be wife is)  P.M. me, and I'll tell you.  She's the best girl in the world.[ This Message was edited by: CEDU IS A CULT on 2005-07-30 08:13 ][ This Message was edited by: CEDU IS A CULT on 2005-07-30 08:14 ]
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Offline sabro

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« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2005, 02:06:00 PM »
It was a whole lot easier to believe that the extremes were warranted at Cedu because you kids needed it. The fact that it failed so misserably renders this hogwash. I never, ever thought it was that bad. I thought there were problems that needed to be fixed and some staff that were off the wall. We were always trying to figure out how to make the program better and more effective. But the core was rotten.

I kinda believe that most of the staff- even the most abusive, came there for the right reasons and tried to do good for kids- but for most, they had no experience, education, or training, and under the Mel system- they accepted what was going on as therapy. (I have no background in therapy either- so a lot of time i just sat there incredulously thinking "what is this?") They must have started out as decent caring humans. But I guess if they tried to maintain that they would have been forced to quit or have been fired. But a fewm they stayed on thinking they might help a kid through this...

Power, control, and manipulation became the goals of any employee who aspired to succeed at Cedu. They were rank amatuers- with no business dispensing this funky brand of "healing." If you didn't toe the line as staff, you were subjected to many of the same kind of games the kids faced- along with punitive employer practices like messing with your work duties, hours and even pay. Like the kids we were often told who we could talk to and what we should say. You had to go through whomever was running a kid's "table" or work assignment. (Tim was great at smiling and acting shocked.)

I took a paycut to work there and was strung along with promise after promise. I enjoyed working with the kids- got no problem with the physical labor thing, or the cleanliness thing, not with the classes, the outdoor ed program, or sports- all that was fun. (And I got out of most raps when we were working on the accreditation and all raps and propheets during my last few months.)

I remember my first rap with Jill. Afterwards she tried to debrief it in some gentle manner: "Do you have a problem yelling?" I told her, no- if I have something to yell about. "what about cussing?" I told her in general I don't cuss. "You really can't work here if you don't cuss." Okay, I said. "Well..." she looked at me. Long pause- "Okay, Fuck you."I told her. She smiled and gave me a hug.

Early on, I came in early and found a chair and a book to read. Rudy pulled me into his office and hit the roof. Screaming, red-faced...and I'm thinking I might need to use some martial arts on him... and then he calms and acts loving and caring.

Luke had it much worse than I did. Originally, Rudy had challenge and then Bill- both were a lot easier to work with than Guy. He made Luke's life hell for not being a "believer." I think the day after I gave notice, they fired him. No warning, no probation, no reason. (You're not a team player.)

These schools prey upon the desperation of parents that are at the end of whatever rope they have. Although Cedu is gone- the nightmare lives on in dozens of copycats because the market is there.

The car: My son Justin drives it when it runs. A Tweed Enterprise Hum-lite hummer replica. Fiberglass and aluminum body on a welded steel frame- Rear engine. I just pulled the Rx7 engine out and dropped a VW engine in so the smog referee will exempt it. Google "humlite" and I think the Knott's Berry Farm pics will come up.

...the people have a right to keep and bear arms.
-- Patrick Henry and George Mason Debates

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ight a man a fire and he stays warm for a night...Light a man on fire and he stays warm for the rest of his life.

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2005, 03:38:00 PM »
To Sabro---no question that a lot of people hate CEDU--but what about all the other people who attended and describe a completely different experience---who don't even post here or relate to the stories here

Do you believe they are all sheep and brainwashed-- cuz if that's the case some of them are doing an awfully good job of acting like they're pretty normal people

Isn't it just possible that these programs worked well for some people and not for others---I'm not saying I know the answer but just that it's worth asking

Since you had a lot of hands-on time in one of the CEDU school: what do you think---why do many grads even have fond memories of their time there
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2005, 06:57:00 PM »
If they did have a good experience they probably won't post here!
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Offline shanlea

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« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2005, 09:46:00 PM »
Look, some of the pro CEDU grads in my view, brought the whole CEDU cultic mindset and were scared straight. This does not mean that CEDU's therapeutic practices were ethical.  Trenchant verbal abuse, repeated sexual humiliaition, isolation,manipulation, coersion, lies, deprivation, and coerced confessions (true and FALSE)is not EVER acceptable as a means to rehab kids.  And these were not isolated practices, but systemic.  

Like Sabro indicated, the staff itself were infected by this whole CEDU cultic experience. And to top it off, I distinctly remember that CEDU was not just a place for kids to work through their shit.  It was a place where fucked up adults worked through their shit, grabbing on to some dialectic ideology and bludgeoning people with it.

Why should 13-17 year old kids have to sit in a room and listen to their so called staff therapists talk about their own backgrounds as gang rapers, molesters, or perverts? In graphic detail no less. How are 13 year old girls who have been raped or molested supposed to feel safe?  

And why do we have to detail graphically our masturbation histories to adults and be shamed and manipulated for something normal and PRIVATE? I mean did you hang out with your guidance counselors in high school and give them your own personal history of jacking off?

Come on! This is not therapy!

I know of kids who were forced to say they had sex when they were virgins, had an eating disorder when they had a urinary problem, and were drug addicts when they never took a puff.  And then they had to be bombarded with this story for 2 years. By the end of two years, you thought, thank God CEDU saved me from being an anorexic slut with a drug problem!

Some kids at CEDU were essentially spoiled brats that their overpriveleged families just didn't have time for... Some kids at CEDU were good people suffering from depression, anxiety disorder, ADD, or plain old low self esteem. CEDU was NOT equipped to deal with those issues either.

Lots of kids at CEDU needed help. But you aren't gonna get help at a place that is essentially a group home with no real individualized therapeutic plan based on sound practices. You are not gonna get help from a place whose main tool is one-size-fits-all humiliation therapy.
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hanlea

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2005, 10:16:00 PM »
Like I said anyone who thought they had a good experience wouldn't post here.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2007, 05:48:39 PM »
I was at Cedu-RS in the late 80's to early 90's at the same time as Johnny Propheet and some of the others on here.  I'm sorry I found this so late. I think Sabro was a good man and he's just awakening like I am to how tragically scarred Cedu left some people. Its not in everyone's nature to have the courage to stand up so boldy and rebel. Especially when you're in such a surreal setting and its hard to piece together what's going on and get out of your own survival mode to help others.
I was a "Look Good" student. I hit the ground running with that mentality after being in a fucked up psych hospital in the 80's. (It also served me well going thru US Army boot camp when it was still scary before it became pussified) I lament it about myself that I didn't stand up for my friends that were the typical peer group scapegoats for any shit that happened. We can't change that past, all we can do is alert people to the future hell if they go down that path of so-called treatment/salvation. Sabro and Luke tried the best they knew how at the time. :cry:
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Offline Anonymous

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Sabro
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2007, 08:11:09 PM »
Sabro...I remember you but I doubt you will remember me. I was on my way out and you had just been there for a few months at the time.

I just found this site and it's Friday evening. I need to go and get ready to take my wonderfull fiancee out tonight or she will kill me. I have been glued to this site all week and do not have the time to say everything I want to.

I respect your words and what you did. I spent years and years supressing what happened to me. It is crazy to think it has resurfaced 15 years later. I was made to be an example and was fucked with at that institution for 2 years. I tried SOOO hard to get out. I hated Carl Janowitz and knew he was a sick fuck. He made his goal to fuck with me back and called me his "little project'" I was condemned to raps with him all the time.

I was never the same after I left Cedu. People who knew me before I went in and have often told me that when I came out I was almost seemingly "damaged." I struggled with my  confidence after Cedu and still do sometimes. Cedu ingrained in me that I could never be a leader. They would never give me leadership opportunitites or allow me to be on committees. It has proved to follow me in life. I manage employees now and still question my leadership. I worry that I am not a good manager and ALL of that stems back to not even be allowed to run Saturday chores.  I have a picture of Tyler Mars and your little son. Perhaps I will post it on my flickr site.

Have you seen? http://www.flickr.com/photos/cedu/

You are actually on there already.

I really don't know what to do at this point...this past week has stirred up more demons then I have ever known.

When the guy who believes in ghosts finally makes contact with a ghost - where does he go from there? Do you go on making contact with ghosts are do you say "See I knew there were ghosts."

I knew Cedu had fucked me up on many levels and I always wondered if there was some sort of support group. I found it and have spent lots of time on here. I could spend years trying to fight these demons. For now...I must hope that time continues to heal this and be like "see I knew that place was fucked up."
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Offline Anonymous

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Sabro
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2007, 08:16:18 PM »
Sabro...I remember you but I doubt you will remember me. I was on my way out and you had just been there for a few months at the time.

I just found this site and it's Friday evening. I need to go and get ready to take my wonderfull fiancee out tonight or she will kill me. I have been glued to this site all week and do not have the time to say everything I want to.

I respect your words and what you did. I spent years and years supressing what happened to me. It is crazy to think it has resurfaced 15 years later. I was made to be an example and was fucked with and mentally tortured at that institution for 2 years. I tried SOOO hard to get out. I hated Carl Janowitz and knew he was a sick fuck. He made his goal to fuck with me back and called me his "little project'" I was condemned to raps with him all the time.

I was never the same after I left Cedu. People who knew me before I went in have often told me that when I came out I was almost seemingly "damaged." I struggled with my  confidence after Cedu and still do sometimes. Cedu ingrained in me that I could never be a leader. They would never give me leadership opportunitites or allow me to be on committees. It has proved to follow me in life. I manage employees now and still question my leadership. I worry that I am not a good manager and ALL of that stems back to not even be allowed to run Saturday chores.  I have a picture of Tyler Mars and your little son. Perhaps I will post it on my flickr site.

Have you seen? http://www.flickr.com/photos/cedu/

You are actually on there already.

I really don't know what to do at this point...this past week has stirred up more demons then I have ever known.

When the guy who believes in ghosts finally makes contact with a ghost - where does he go from there? Do you go on making contact with ghosts or do you say "See I knew there were ghosts."

I knew Cedu had fucked me up on many levels and I always wondered if there was some sort of support group. I found it and have spent lots of time on here. I could spend years trying to fight these demons. For now...I must hope that time continues to heal this and be like "see I knew that place was fucked up."
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Offline Anonymous

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To Johnny P
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2007, 09:13:12 PM »
I was from your time and had the same experience as you when you found Fornits.   Do you have e-mail or can you set up a profile for PM. I'd love to touch base!
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2007, 09:53:00 PM »
awww Johnny ur killin me...Im dyin to know who you were...we can share our hate for the sick and twisted perv that is carl janowitz...man he is a sick fuck! Contacts me after Cedu RS via the classmates site and sends me nasty emails about how he wanted to fuck me and some of my peers and gals in the lower peer group.  sick fuck!  Also sent me nasty emails about what he wanted to do to me then(around 1999-2000 when he contacted me).

The only people I really really really liked were Tim Brace, Kathy and her hubby Jon...Prins I believe thier last name is, Donna Dilman(for teaching me outdoors stuff) and Bruce Boslow(I think thats his last name)...there was also a Delia(cant remember last name....but she drove a Jeep) lol....and Donna's dog BO!  BO was the shit! hahaha Big black lab...anyone remember any of these peeps and whats ur take on them?  Other than that I pretty mch hated that place.

Going to the movies...be back tomorrow.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2007, 10:54:22 PM »
Delia was nice but totally drank the cool aid. I remember her eviscerating for laughing with a few guys.   That little bit of fliration was just Cedu-sinful.     I remember when her daughter visited CEDU--a civilian--with long hair, a short skirt, and make up, and girls ganged up on Delia about allowing her there like that while we had to suffer from desexualization, and the  make-under of the century.   I thought it was ridiculous they yelled at Delia for having a normal daughter--but I could also understand the resentment.

Bruce was really sweet. But I think he was there to find a niche and fix his own broken  psyche. Nonethelss, it was nice to have someone caring, low key, and un-dramatic.  Wish more of them were like the last descriptive.  

Carl came right after I split.  Anyone know what happened to Wanda? What about Alex's wife Julie? She was treated like shit there for basically being a nice person.  God! I remember one rap where girls and staff ganged up on her for looking too cute.   But, people like her (not a fucking melodramatic harpy) were a lifesaver for me.  I always wondered how A and J lasted as she was under mega pressure to conform to CEDU ways, and he wasn't exactly supportive.

Were you there for Jim Johnson or Lori Saunders? Hated them.  If they hadn't lied to me and about me, perhaps I wouldn't, but I have ZERO respect for them.  Rudy was nice to me, not so much  to others.  Hated Guy and Dean and loved that I interacted with them very, very little.

Wish I knew more about my peer group--I split before I graduated.   They graduated in June or Dec of 89, I believe.  (Ali Dean, Chris Robinson, Alana, Gabby, Tory, Shannon M, Pablo, Kim, Kate, John, Jay Glickman, Monique, Joy, etc.)
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2007, 10:56:21 PM »
Delia was nice but totally drank the cool aid. I remember her eviscerating for laughing with a few guys.   That little bit of fliration was just Cedu-sinful.     I remember when her daughter visited CEDU--a civilian--with long hair, a short skirt, and make up, and girls ganged up on Delia about allowing her there like that while we had to suffer from desexualization, and the  make-under of the century.   I thought it was ridiculous they yelled at Delia for having a normal daughter--but I could also understand the resentment.

Bruce was really sweet. But I think he was there to find a niche and fix his own broken  psyche. Nonethelss, it was nice to have someone caring, low key, and un-dramatic.  Wish more of them were like the last descriptive.  

Carl came right after I split.  Anyone know what happened to Wanda? What about Alex's wife Julie? She was treated like shit there for basically being a nice person.  God! I remember one rap where girls and staff ganged up on her for looking too cute.   But, people like her (not a fucking melodramatic harpy) were a lifesaver for me.  I always wondered how A and J lasted as she was under mega pressure to conform to CEDU ways, and he wasn't exactly supportive.

Were you there for Jim Johnson or Lori Saunders? Hated them.  If they hadn't lied to me and about me, perhaps I wouldn't, but I have ZERO respect for them.  Rudy was nice to me, not so much  to others.  Hated Guy and Dean and loved that I interacted with them very, very little.

Wish I knew more about my peer group--I split before I graduated.   They graduated in June or Dec of 89, I believe.  (Ali Dean, Chris Robinson, Alana, Gabby, Tory, Shannon M, Pablo, Kim, Kate, John, Jay Glickman, Monique, Joy, etc.)
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Offline Son Of Serbia

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Johnny Propheet
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2007, 12:03:18 PM »
It's been well over a year since I posted here last.  For those of you who know me, I'm no lover of Cedu, that's for sure.   I stopped posting at this site after we won the good fight and saw Cedu shut down permanently.  I still come back to this site from time to time to check my messages.  I came here yesterday, looked at a few threads, and it seems that this site is buzzing with activity as of late. The new posters coming here all seem to be from my era at Cedu RS.  After reading your post Johnny, I just had to write again.

Johnny Propheet, I was at Cedu with you and I know exactly who you are.  I know what those criminal bastards did to you, and they fucked with you like no other.  You spent sooo many years at that shithole, and for the life of me, I can't figure out how you got through it and managed to hold onto your sanity, but god bless you for doing so.

I wasn't at Cedu anywhere near as long as you were, and I didn't wait around to graduate, that's for sure, but I was certainly traumatized by the experience.  Like you, I did my best to forget about the Cedu Cult, and it worked for 12 years.  About three years ago I was bored and fucking around on google.  I typed the words "Cedu hurts kids" and did a search.  Fornits was the first site that popped up, and after reading through a few threads all the bad memories of abuse and the anger I had at those monsters came flooding back to me.  I couldn't stop thinking about it, much like you can't now.

My advice to you is this: now that the cork is off of the bottle, there's no going back.  Whatever you're feeling about the Cedu Cult and the criminals who hurt you there, you have to come here and say it, and you have to keep coming back here and saying it, until you've said everything. Don't hold anything back.  In my experience, that's how you're going to beat those demons that are plaguing you, trust me I know. It took me over 360 posts to feel better, and a year plus after I stopped posting, here I am again with more to say.  That's how you're going to beat those abusive fuckers who hurt you like Rudy & Jill Bentz , Guy Bonnano, Russ Decker, Carl Janowitz, Patrick Stambuski and the rest of them, by calling them out for what they are.

Johnny if you want to talk, PM me anytime.  I'll tell you exactly who I am, and I'm sure that you will remember me.  Good luck to you.




Quote from: ""Johnny Propheet""
Sabro...I remember you but I doubt you will remember me. I was on my way out and you had just been there for a few months at the time.

I just found this site and it's Friday evening. I need to go and get ready to take my wonderfull fiancee out tonight or she will kill me. I have been glued to this site all week and do not have the time to say everything I want to.

I respect your words and what you did. I spent years and years supressing what happened to me. It is crazy to think it has resurfaced 15 years later. I was made to be an example and was fucked with and mentally tortured at that institution for 2 years. I tried SOOO hard to get out. I hated Carl Janowitz and knew he was a sick fuck. He made his goal to fuck with me back and called me his "little project'" I was condemned to raps with him all the time.

I was never the same after I left Cedu. People who knew me before I went in have often told me that when I came out I was almost seemingly "damaged." I struggled with my  confidence after Cedu and still do sometimes. Cedu ingrained in me that I could never be a leader. They would never give me leadership opportunitites or allow me to be on committees. It has proved to follow me in life. I manage employees now and still question my leadership. I worry that I am not a good manager and ALL of that stems back to not even be allowed to run Saturday chores.  I have a picture of Tyler Mars and your little son. Perhaps I will post it on my flickr site.

Have you seen? http://www.flickr.com/photos/cedu/

You are actually on there already.

I really don't know what to do at this point...this past week has stirred up more demons then I have ever known.

When the guy who believes in ghosts finally makes contact with a ghost - where does he go from there? Do you go on making contact with ghosts or do you say "See I knew there were ghosts."

I knew Cedu had fucked me up on many levels and I always wondered if there was some sort of support group. I found it and have spent lots of time on here. I could spend years trying to fight these demons. For now...I must hope that time continues to heal this and be like "see I knew that place was fucked up."
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »