Author Topic: Carlbrook  (Read 625509 times)

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Offline E Adams

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2700 on: July 12, 2009, 01:49:13 PM »
Guest, No one left anyone alone. I split, did fulltimes and wd's, had a rap named after me since I was the only one indicted for 3.5 hrs, I was on bans from all but 5 people my first Christmas, I was never a staff, do not talk to any staff, was never asked to be staff. I don't know if you're reading the same thing. Were you there? I would venture I know more about it from that time, and talk to more people than you do. There were people I knew and still know that thought it was the worst thing ever. They were and are friends of mine - and for the most part they were "responsible" while they were there, dorm heads and "look goods" and left on good terms. I went to Schweitzer ONCE. You may be missing my point - I thought much of it was quackery and UNfun. But not all of it. I talked to two friends of mine from that time last night, one who was kicked out. And funny that both of them looked back on it much the way I do. A screwed up program, a strange philosophy, but not a "bad" overall experience. I invest in the equity markets and comm exchanges for a living and if you think the RMA staff was somehow worse and/or more abusive, hypocritical or dishonest than the misinformers in the financial world then you are naive. If anything it is a microcosm, it's like life man. Yes, it was some screwed up stuff, but people did some screwed up stuff to get there too. There were staff I despised, that I thought were horrible. Specifically, above, I was speaking of one. Much depends on your perspective and the way you deal with it. Yes, I knew people who went there, good friends, who could not deal when they left and got even more screwed up. I also know a lot of very successful people. To throw a blanket over the whole thing and say everyone who went there had the same experience and were tortured and emotionally wrecked by the experience is ignorant soundbite generalization. Experience ran the gamut. Was it great and wonderful and perfect and smart? Probably not. I would have rather gone to the beach for the weekend or seen a T Waits show - but I didn't. I have friends who went there, same time I did, and we still talk, still see them on occasion.  I am not speaking for your experience there, if you even went there, I'm speaking of my experience. I suspect no one who knew me there or now would say I was a staff lackey or a troll or particularly that I was or am brainwashed. I suspect they'd say the opposite. My feeling is that you've read some posts or some article from someone else and have extrapolated that into some eaily disgestible formulaic little pill that you've swallowed. Did you even go there? And for the record, there were students there I didn't like either, not just the staff.  I realize there is at least a difference in opinion between people, there was then, there is now. Believe me, I have no agenda here. And patience? Is that your thing that you go off on anyone who sees things differently than you? Are you a zealot? I doubt my opinion is THAT far removed from TAC's - but at least we can be civil on the differences.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2701 on: July 12, 2009, 03:24:52 PM »
Quote from: "E Adams"
Much depends on your perspective and the way you deal with it. Yes, I knew people who went there, good friends, who could not deal when they left and got even more screwed up. I also know a lot of very successful people. ....I doubt my opinion is THAT far removed from TAC's - but at least we can be civil on the differences.


According to you-- a sniveling, trolling moron-- everything is subjective, therefore am I not just as civil as TAC, you failure at life.  Perhaps your perspective is just a different than mine, scum-bag.

Or, perhaps reality is not as subjective as you suggest?

Quote from: "E Adams"
Yes, it was some screwed up stuff, but people did some screwed up stuff to get there too.Yes, I knew people who went there, good friends, who could not deal when they left and got even more screwed up. I also know a lot of very successful people. To throw a blanket over the whole thing and say everyone who went there had the same experience and were tortured and emotionally wrecked by the experience is ignorant soundbite generalization.

No one says CEDU  emotionally wrecked everyone , people say CEDU subjected detainees systematically to torture. I was not there the same year as you, but have read testimony from people who were, and  CEDU was not reworked around YOU, personally. I doubt about your authenticity. I doubt the authenticity of posters behind anonymous internet messages that defend highly profitable cultic organizations.

On the other hand, I have peers who 5 years later describe our program in the same way you do, and also have a weird agenda of insinuatingly “blaming the victims," so I know it can happen.   These defenders tortured, and tortured, as much as the next person (as a general rule, they did MORE torturing than the average detainee).

Torture does not cease to become torture if you are not negatively effected by it. Reality is objective. You say you were abducted. You say you were not traumatized by the experience. However, you were STILL abducted.

CEDU is not a "microcosm" of life. Unless your "life" is that of prisoner in a totalist thought reform labor camp. However you want to interpret your past, when quantified by measurements afforded by the Geneva conventions or medical (or even legal) standards, what went on at CEDU was torture.

This Carlbrook monster oversaw abduction, torture, imprisonment  however "nice" you claim he was to you  personally.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline E Adams

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2702 on: July 12, 2009, 03:57:38 PM »
Am I a failure at life and a moron? How do you know that Guest? Are you smarter than I am - more intelligent, more insightful, more successful, happier, more at peace with yourself? Are you psychic? Wow. And you know more about the school than I do, and I went there - and you've not said if you even did or did not?  I snivel? And curious where I defended the school? I attended the school, I haven't defended it. In fact, if anything, I would think I've said the program was pretty goofball. I wrote this all in English.

And I haven't seen anyone else posting on here about this that was there when I was - not that I've seen at least.  You are like a guy who knows everything about a book that he's never read - or a cd he's never heard. The difference between you and TAC is that TAC is sane. And from what I can tell, a %$#@ of a lot smarter than you are. You're not even saying anything. You can't even develop a thought. TAC can actually disagree and explain why he disagrees. You might work on that. And plus, TAC was actually there it seems to me.

Next you'll tell me my girlfriend is ugly or that I need a haircut or something. You know a lot of stuff. It's impressive.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2703 on: July 12, 2009, 04:08:44 PM »
E Adams,

I have some questions for you.

(1) What restraint methods did staff utilize at Carlbrook?
(2) Did staff restrain you?  
(3) Why were you restrained?
(4) How long were you restrained for?
(5) How many staff restrained you?  
(6) Did staff use excessive force when they restrained you?
(6) Did you witness any emotional abuse, sexual abuse or physical abuse at Carlbrook?
(7) Did you witness excessive force used in restraints towards other students?
(8) What were the  consequences for rule infractions at Carlbrook?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline E Adams

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2704 on: July 12, 2009, 04:14:05 PM »
How would I know - I never went to Carlbrook. I never said I went to Carlbrook. I made a comment about Tim Brace, the Headmaster, someone I knew for 2 yrs 24 yrs ago. That is all. Guest would probably know though. He knows a lot of stuff. Hope this helps.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Inculcated

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2705 on: July 12, 2009, 04:40:19 PM »
Quote from: "bobpeterson1973"
E Adams,

I have some questions for you.

(1) What restraint methods did staff utilize at Carlbrook?
(2) Did staff restrain you?  
(3) Why were you restrained?
(4) How long were you restrained for?
(5) How many staff restrained you?  
(6) Did staff use excessive force when they restrained you?
(6) Did you witness any emotional abuse, sexual abuse or physical abuse at Carlbrook?
(7) Did you witness excessive force used in restraints towards other students?
(8) What were the  consequences for rule infractions at Carlbrook?

I beleive, these questions were asked with a genuine interest in your perspective and account.
Are you able to answer any of these questions from your experiences of the program you were in?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
“A person needs a little madness, or else they never dare cut the rope and be free”  Nikos Kazantzakis

Offline Anonymous

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2706 on: July 12, 2009, 04:43:02 PM »
E Adams,

Were Caroline Wolf, Steve Rookey, Brett Carey, Lisa Carey, Lisa Sutton, Glen Sutton, Tony Allmaras, Doug Kim-Brown, Randy Eide, Vicki Jones, John Aaron, Ray Kreider or Shiela Clairmont at RMA?  I left RMA in 1993.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2707 on: July 12, 2009, 05:05:26 PM »
Quote from: "E Adams"
Am I a failure at life and a moron? How do you know that Guest? Are you smarter than I am - more intelligent, more insightful, more successful, happier, more at peace with yourself? Are you psychic? Wow. And you know more about the school than I do, and I went there - and you've not said if you even did or did not?  I snivel? And curious where I defended the school? I attended the school, I haven't defended it. In fact, if anything, I would think I've said the program was pretty goofball. I wrote this all in English.

And I haven't seen anyone else posting on here about this that was there when I was - not that I've seen at least.  You are like a guy who knows everything about a book that he's never read - or a cd he's never heard. The difference between you and TAC is that TAC is sane. And from what I can tell, a %$#@ of a lot smarter than you are. You're not even saying anything. You can't even develop a thought. TAC can actually disagree and explain why he disagrees. You might work on that. And plus, TAC was actually there it seems to me.

Next you'll tell me my girlfriend is ugly or that I need a haircut or something. You know a lot of stuff. It's impressive.


To clarify, I was being facetious. You said that it depends on your perspective whether or not CEDU tortured it's detainees.

My point was objective reality is not “perspective based.” No matter what your “perspective” my calling you an ugly failure at life is not civil. Get it?

 However, I would say anyone who shows up at a forum to defend a man who directed the abduction imprisonment, torture, and murder (of the kids he drove to suicide) at CEDU and now Carlrbook, is someone I would call a failure at life.

You claim to be a former CEDU detainee and yet your first post is to defend this staff member...highly suspicious. Even for a "neutral" or positive on CEDU former detainee, that doesn't seem likely, sorry
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Offline E Adams

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2708 on: July 12, 2009, 05:19:41 PM »
Caroline came after me (to RMA), was there when I left, as was Randy E. Ray came about 8 or 9 mos before I left and sat in the I&Me with my peergroup as a participant. Steve Rookey worked in the kitchen. He was the cook. Maybe he sat in a few raps just before I left. Don't recall Lisa or Glen Sutton or Tony A. I think that Brett guy and his wife might have come a couple of mos before I left but don;t recall them very well. Seems like they were fairly young maybe? Don't remember Sheila. John Aaron was at Cedu, not at RMA while I was there. I did sit in one of his raps though so I vaguely remember him. Don't know Vicki. Doug Kim-Brown was certainly there. He arrived about 7 or 8 months after me as I recall. Went through raps propheets and workshops with my peergroup, as a participant. Was running raps and was a family head before I left. He was a piece of work - and I don't mean that in the best sense.
Staff that were there: Steve Kaufman, Rowdy, Joe Sweeney (Well, if you can call him staff?), Mare, Dan K, Bob Silfies, Tom Kray, Ned (something), Barrett (something?), Neil and Debby Weston (who divorced shortly after and she went to Hilltop), etc. I'm sure there were others. Some didn't stay long. S Kaufman left right around when my peer group did - think he had some issues with the program. And Dan & Carmen Earle were there most of the time.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline E Adams

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2709 on: July 12, 2009, 05:31:36 PM »
BP, I never witnessed anyone being restrained or restraints of any kind or staff restraining anyone physically. I never witnessed any physical abuse at all. I am not even going to comment on "emotional abuse" or open that can of worms on this board.  

There were "work details", "fulltimes" etc. If you are interested go to the documentary "Surviving Cedu" and watch the chapter on fulltimes - that pretty much sums it up.

And Guest: I get it, you're being facetious. So cool. Good for you, dude. I think you're sort of dull and uninteresting. How about that?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2710 on: July 12, 2009, 06:42:18 PM »
Quote from: "E Adams"
Caroline came after me (to RMA), was there when I left, as was Randy E. Ray came about 8 or 9 mos before I left and sat in the I&Me with my peergroup as a participant. Steve Rookey worked in the kitchen. He was the cook. Maybe he sat in a few raps just before I left. Don't recall Lisa or Glen Sutton or Tony A. I think that Brett guy and his wife might have come a couple of mos before I left but don;t recall them very well. Seems like they were fairly young maybe? Don't remember Sheila. John Aaron was at Cedu, not at RMA while I was there. I did sit in one of his raps though so I vaguely remember him. Don't know Vicki. Doug Kim-Brown was certainly there. He arrived about 7 or 8 months after me as I recall. Went through raps propheets and workshops with my peergroup, as a participant. Was running raps and was a family head before I left. He was a piece of work - and I don't mean that in the best sense.
Staff that were there: Steve Kaufman, Rowdy, Joe Sweeney (Well, if you can call him staff?), Mare, Dan K, Bob Silfies, Tom Kray, Ned (something), Barrett (something?), Neil and Debby Weston (who divorced shortly after and she went to Hilltop), etc. I'm sure there were others. Some didn't stay long. S Kaufman left right around when my peer group did - think he had some issues with the program. And Dan & Carmen Earle were there most of the time.

Joe Sweeny worked at Rocky Mountain Academy before I left in 1993.  I agree with your assessment of Doug Kim-Brown.  He suggested I join the military because I needed more structure after graduating RMA.  Doug Kim-Brown was aware I had epilepsy before making his brilliant suggestion.  Were you referring to Ned Murray?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline E Adams

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2711 on: July 12, 2009, 06:52:31 PM »
Just remember his name was Ned. He literally arrived weeks before I left. Sort of skinny, brown hair, glasses. Don;t know his last name.
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Offline try another castle

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2712 on: July 12, 2009, 06:58:45 PM »
Quote
So, when i read posts like this, I read "staff" doing damage control, a troll, or some majorly brainwashed cult member. The AARC and Straights has these cases. Accordingly, so will CEDU

Right, right, because everyone who offers an opinion or point of view that doesnt jibe with the hard left are obviously shills, idiots, staff or the who, right?

And there are rarely ever survivors who are like that, right? Were you on the CEDU boards around 05? It was a freakin circus.

Im as anti-program as anyone else here, and I certainly don't think I have any magic powers of deduction, but it always seems pretty obvious to me when staff and shills are posting. Just check  out any of the posts that happened right after the AARC piece came out on TV, or when the whole CALO issue started getting hot. They are rarely specific, always inflammatory, totally juvenile, and for some reason, contain a hell of a lot of grammatical/spelling errors.. even theWho's ramblings are like that... and if the post starts out seeming legit, the conversation quickly disintegrates and it becomes obvious when the poster is a troll.

Based on this, Im not exactly sure how you could possibly think that E_Adams one of these types of folks.

Being consistently dismissive is way too myopic for my tastes, and we may end up missing out on vital information as well as learning about that person's experience. We get plenty of trolls, but they always reek to high heaven of living under the proverbial goat-crossing bridge. If we simply decide to try to shut down anyone here who may not say something we like or agree with, well, who really loses?

Look, Im all for reaming people and having a little fun with those who are total brats, but seriously, do you really feel that this guy falls into that category? Im  not sure how you could.

Not sure about you, but survivors, especially survivors who were there when things started, Id like to have stick around. Im all for debate and discourse, that's what it's all about in my eyes, so seriously, fucking pay attention to the post before jumping to conclusions like that and writing someone off entirely, because if we do, we never even get to the point of having the conversation to begin with. (Think about CCMGirl. She totally got unnecessarily reamed here, and as a result, she wrote fornits off.)
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2713 on: July 12, 2009, 08:30:53 PM »
Heh, uhhm.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2714 on: July 12, 2009, 11:21:44 PM »
well said castle!
I have a few questions adams may want to answer if he feels like it. I am glad that you were not traumatised by your time there.
If you were a parent would you send your kid there?
What specific tools or benefits did you get out of it?
Given that you concede that a lot of their methods are pretty crazy how would you try to provide the same benefits to a person without using such a model?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »