Typical Day at Sagewalk

[Anonymous]

Theres a shitload of reasons why kids wind up in programs. If my parents had thought of it, they would have plopped my sorry-ass in one. Instead they told me that one my 18th birthday if I didnt get with THEIR program Id find my stuff in the front yard. Best wakeup call Ive gotten! It sucks but as long as youre under their roof or theyre kicking down with the cash, you play by their rules. The money train goes where it wants and I wasnt driving. It sucks but that the way it fucking goes. I learned a big lesson - and it was self-reliance. Nobody was there to tell me to eat more vegetables, get more sleep, not smoke weed, pay my bills, blah blah blah. It took a while but I figured out some of the stuff I was doing was a stupid waste of time - but I learned it on my own. I have friends who got thrown out and theyve said that if their parents hadnt kicked em to the curb theyd still be living in the basement sleeping on some crappy couch working just enough to by more weed. Theres lots of different ways to "get with the program".

[Anonymous]

The program breeds dependence, even though they like to think the opposite. The program graduates are the ones living with their parents well into their 20's, not the ones taking their exit plans.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-07-28 14:39:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Theres a shitload of reasons why kids wind up in programs. If my parents had thought of it, they would have plopped my sorry-ass in one. Instead they told me that one my 18th birthday if I didnt get with THEIR program Id find my stuff in the front yard. Best wakeup call Ive gotten! It sucks but as long as youre under their roof or theyre kicking down with the cash, you play by their rules. The money train goes where it wants and I wasnt driving. It sucks but that the way it fucking goes. I learned a big lesson - and it was self-reliance. Nobody was there to tell me to eat more vegetables, get more sleep, not smoke weed, pay my bills, blah blah blah. It took a while but I figured out some of the stuff I was doing was a stupid waste of time - but I learned it on my own. I have friends who got thrown out and theyve said that if their parents hadnt kicked em to the curb theyd still be living in the basement sleeping on some crappy couch working just enough to by more weed. Theres lots of different ways to "get with the program"."

What's your point? Everyone learns self-reliance when they move out. It's called growing up. If your parents let you become a fat slob uncapable of taking care of yourself, well, that sucks. But a program isn't going to solve that. Parents would like to think programs can fix their mistakes, they are SO wrong it's sad.

[Anonymous]

I guess the point I tried to make is that maybe the parents that choose programs feel its a better choice than throwing a kid out on his ass. They probably see it as putting a kid in the hands of "experts" and the more expensive the better. And I dont know about you but Ive made some pretty shitty choices in the friends department. No better way to get your kid out of the grip of "the bad kids" than to send him off. And I probably would have turned out different if my parents hadnt been wrapped up in fucking up their own relationship and had spent more time with me.

[Antigen]

On 2005-07-28 15:21:00, Anonymous wrote:

 I guess the point I tried to make is that maybe the parents that choose programs feel its a better choice than throwing a kid out on his ass.

I think you're probably right. They think it's better cause they don't have to see what they're paying for. And, of course, they are paying. How many times have you read the astonishing statement that parents who don't love their kids don't spend money on them. Really! So, in these people's minds, money not only buys love, but is, in fact, evidence of it! Wow!

In regard to most of the programs that come up under discussion around here, it would be a good deal better to throw the kids out. But why settle for just better than the worst thing one could do? Why not actually do something WITH the kids? Instead of spending anywhere from $50 to $200k/yr on this scam, why not take off a few months and go camping WITH the kid? Shit, hire a newagey trail guide w/ some indian sounding pseudonym if it makes you feel better about the whole thing.

Getting away from grind and the static and constant noise of civilization is a probably a good thing for most people, whatever may be troubling your mind. No need to needle and poke at the kid to break them down. No need to prohibit phone and mail contact w/ the outside world. No need for any of the abusive tactics, diet restrictions or unneccessary hardships. And I would think that parents who are willing to spend the time and endure the rustic life WITH the kid would earn something like bona fied respect rather than fear based compliance.

I suppose it depends on what you're after in life. I'd rather have my kid give me the finger over taking out the trash and confide in my over the serious stuff than the other way around.

In questions of power, then, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution."

--Thomas Jefferson 1798

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[Anonymous]

On 2005-07-28 15:21:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I guess the point I tried to make is that maybe the parents that choose programs feel its a better choice than throwing a kid out on his ass. They probably see it as putting a kid in the hands of "experts" and the more expensive the better. And I dont know about you but Ive made some pretty shitty choices in the friends department. No better way to get your kid out of the grip of "the bad kids" than to send him off. And I probably would have turned out different if my parents hadnt been wrapped up in fucking up their own relationship and had spent more time with me."

So what you're saying is they should have paid more attention to you? I think that pretty sums up what a lot of us are suggesting. The act of shipping kids away, to a place where you rarely if ever speak to them, for months on end, is a huge indication of just how much effort they are willing to put into their kids. I know, people are going to say....but the kids were HORRIBLE, I was AWFUL... well, I doubt that's true. Probably you were really unhappy with the situation you were in. And that was the real issue, not how "awful" you think you were.

[Anonymous]

If we lived in a perfect world parents would have lots of time to spend with their children and children would want to spend time with their parents. And I know people that have families like that. One of them is a third generation trust fund family and another has made lots of concessions. One car and one parent working, thrift store shopping, eat out once every couple months, no cable, no cell phones, dial-up cable connection and one computer that everyone shares. Those are two extremes... lots of families have two working parents, lots of fast food, long commute times to work and little time left for families. I may not necessarily agree with programs but Im trying to understand why parents make the choice. Im going out on a limb and saying its because they love their children and are hoping to have a better relationship with them. And some of the time this isnt the outcome.
And youre right, I wasnt a happy teenager and I didnt have happy parents but they loved me and did the best they could with what they had. I guess Im a bit of an optimist and would like to believe that most parents are doing the best they can too.

[Anonymous]

Well, we all know what they say about good intentions so I won't go there...

but it seems you are suggesting you wish your parents had sent you to a program? OH BOY are you on the wrong forum.  :rofl:

[Anonymous]

The bigger the problem, the bigger the budget to solve it. And one of the only things money cant buy is time. And how many kids are guilty of holding the money card over their parents head... especially kids in split families?

[Antigen]

On 2005-07-28 15:54:00, Anonymous wrote:

 I may not necessarily agree with programs but Im trying to understand why parents make the choice. Im going out on a limb and saying its because they love their children and are hoping to have a better relationship with them. And some of the time this isnt the outcome.

And youre right, I wasnt a happy teenager and I didnt have happy parents but they loved me and did the best they could with what they had. I guess Im a bit of an optimist and would like to believe that most parents are doing the best they can too.

An optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. A pesimist knows it. There's another common theme that I see a lot. I suppose it goes back to having had very old parents; my dad having come up poor in the depression and fought WWII. In his day, if you worked hard, were honest and generally of good character, you could raise 6 kids in reasonable comfort w/ mom playing fulltime housewife.

That's no longer true. The truth is if you do your homework, make good grades, stay out of trouble, you too can take you BA along as you have your balls busted looking for non-existant work as a line cook. But don't turn a buck at the only growth industry other than prisons and behavior mod scams! No! That would be wrong!

Most adults are simply not willing to discuss this stark reality w/ kids ta' day. Fact is there is no particularly compelling reason to color inside the lines anymore. If your kid is pissed off and frustrated by that, it's not a disorder in your kid. It's what we used to call prescience.
 

Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.
-- Albert Einstein

[Anonymous]

Not really, but I do like camping and the outdoors. A NOLS or Outward Bound program would have rocked but those are far from cheap! The military might not have been bad either, someone ordering you around all day, lots of structure, a paycheck and a pension adjusted for inflation. And the possibility of being blown up with an RPG. Wheeee.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-07-28 16:09:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Not really, but I do like camping and the outdoors. A NOLS or Outward Bound program would have rocked but those are far from cheap! The military might not have been bad either, someone ordering you around all day, lots of structure, a paycheck and a pension adjusted for inflation. And the possibility of being blown up with an RPG. Wheeee."

::ftard::

[Anonymous]

On 2005-07-28 15:54:00, Anonymous wrote:

"If we lived in a perfect world parents would have lots of time to spend with their children and children would want to spend time with their parents. And I know people that have families like that. One of them is a third generation trust fund family and another has made lots of concessions. One car and one parent working, thrift store shopping, eat out once every couple months, no cable, no cell phones, dial-up cable connection and one computer that everyone shares. Those are two extremes... lots of families have two working parents, lots of fast food, long commute times to work and little time left for families. I may not necessarily agree with programs but Im trying to understand why parents make the choice. Im going out on a limb and saying its because they love their children and are hoping to have a better relationship with them. And some of the time this isnt the outcome.

And youre right, I wasnt a happy teenager and I didnt have happy parents but they loved me and did the best they could with what they had. I guess Im a bit of an optimist and would like to believe that most parents are doing the best they can too. "

If by 'best' you mean that they try to force their kids to agree with them and be grateful all the time and have no genuine feelings of their own, I would have to agree.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-07-28 16:03:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Well, we all know what they say about good intentions so I won't go there...



but it seems you are suggesting you wish your parents had sent you to a program? OH BOY are you on the wrong forum.  :rofl: "

Im kinda new here but Ive seen a few posts that didnt completely slam programs. Im not for or against em - theyre just not for everyone. And when I think of the brainwashing aspect of it, wilderness programs dont seem as freakish/cultish as something like Landmark EDucation. That be some freaky shit.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-07-28 16:24:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-07-28 15:54:00, Anonymous wrote:


"If we lived in a perfect world parents would have lots of time to spend with their children and children would want to spend time with their parents. And I know people that have families like that. One of them is a third generation trust fund family and another has made lots of concessions. One car and one parent working, thrift store shopping, eat out once every couple months, no cable, no cell phones, dial-up cable connection and one computer that everyone shares. Those are two extremes... lots of families have two working parents, lots of fast food, long commute times to work and little time left for families. I may not necessarily agree with programs but Im trying to understand why parents make the choice. Im going out on a limb and saying its because they love their children and are hoping to have a better relationship with them. And some of the time this isnt the outcome.


And youre right, I wasnt a happy teenager and I didnt have happy parents but they loved me and did the best they could with what they had. I guess Im a bit of an optimist and would like to believe that most parents are doing the best they can too. "

If by 'best' you mean that they try to force their kids to agree with them and be grateful all the time and have no genuine feelings of their own, I would have to agree."

I cant speak for other parents and their motivation behind the decisions they make. But my mom was sick and tired of fighting with me and having to call the cops and she was physically afraid of me. She told me she did it because she loved me and I believe her. She also admitted that her own parents were not the best role models. Theres all sorts of fucked up shit that goes down in families and kids dont come with instructions. My parents were probably afraid that if I didnt get my shit together Id be an albatross hanging around their neck when they were 80 and in nursing homes. Im rambling but I bet if you research this topic in twenty-thirty years youll find second generation graduates of wilderness programs. The comment one of the earlier posters made about instilling dependency might be right on. Just look at the welfare programs in this country. Third generation recipients. Hmmmm.