Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Brat Camp
Typical Day at Sagewalk
Anonymous:
--- Quote ---On 2005-07-25 15:03:00, Anonymous wrote:
"It's pretty much what I've heard from others who have been in this kind of program
I may be wrong but I think you'll wait a long time before most posters here thank you for your detailed account of what you remember---see--- you just didn't embellish it enough to make it acceptable to a lot of people here
But you do a great service by posting what you know is true---a lot of parents have kids in Sagewalk or some place similar right now---stories like yours give some perspective, what with the stories most people post here.
It reaffirms what we should all remember---it's about picking a good but demanding program---and remembering to consider the source when you hear people slamming any particular program---the questions have to be "How likely is this story to be true? and "What vested interest does the story teller have to either play up or play down the whole truth?"
Personally I don't think you sound like you have a need to either play the story up or down---it just sounds like someone honestly describing his own experience"
--- End quote ---
Personally? I think you all have a problem accepting the fact that it is unethical and immoral to exploit children for profit.
:smokin:
Anonymous:
It's just that most people here have been in places too...and pretty much anything that deals with teaching kids that they can't trust themselves, things like when to stop eating, when to stop hiking, etc, is abusive by nature. It doesn't matter the context. That takes away your ability to take care of yourself. We feel full for a reason...because it's time to stop. Can't you see how sick this is? And they just make you keep going if you didn't check it off? God what is the point? Total submission that's what. Total submission so the parents can all feel happy again they haven't lost their little girl/boy.
dougm:
--- Quote ---On 2005-07-25 13:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
"My question is: what exactly is therapeutic about any of these activities? What caused your parents to send you to Sagewalk, and how did those behaviors change when you came home?"
--- End quote ---
The "therapy" is really quite subtle, basically, you are given your basic needs in life and you are to "learn life" at a very simplistic level. You are forced to take care of yourself, which in the real world, these kids aren't doing. Another real positive aspect is for kids who abuse drugs (majority of the kids I was there with) is the sobering process. I personally have no qualms against drinking and smoking weed (I have done both since leaving the program) but abusing those plus more explicit drugs while a minor should not be tolerated by parents. The first couple of weeks sober is the most crucial time for addicts and what not to clean up. And since most of the kids there haven't been using for years upon years like many adults, they can usually leave the program without any sort of physical addiction (although the pyschological want can still be present).
The reason I was sent to Sagewalk was my behavior primarily. I was depressed, I was lethargic and unmotivated. I spent most of my waking hours on the computer, unless I was at school, but sleep took up most of my time (upwards of 14 hours a day). I was socially inept, no real friends (I sort of bounced around from clique to clique in HS). I ran away from home and attempted to drop out of school. I had no troubles with drugs or drinking at the time (typical experimentation with pot as a Freshman in HS and got drunk once about 3 months before I went to SW), my parents were just frustrated that I was unresponsive to the other forms of therapy and I refused to take medications at the time because I believed I was fine and it was my parents' fault for my problems. The final straw that sent me to SW was my dad driving me to school one day and then grabbing my arm and almost dragging me into school in front of pretty much everyone. I tried not to make a scene, but later I called him up at work and basically screamed "F*** YOU" into the phone and hung up. I was sent to SW 2 days later. The problem though, wasn't really pyschological though, I had undiagnosed diabetes. My blood sugar was sky high for over a year before I was finally diagnosed. The high blood sugar made me extremely fatigued, which caused me to sleep constantly and be slow and tired when I was awake.
As for my behavior changing after SW, not much changed. I was happy to be home for the first week or so. Then everything started to unwind, and I was admitted to the hospital a month after I left SW for suicidal thoughts. After I started insulin, 10 months after I left, it was almost a miracle, I gained 35 pounds in 3 months (115 to 150) and I got along fine with my parents. My parents were extremely apologetic about sending me to SW afterwards, but I couldn't be mad at anyone. No one knew, and you can't blame anyone for that. If one thing SW did for me was it really made me appreciate the little things, there were days after coming back where I would sit in a tub of warm water for hours on end. I attempted to purchase the same oats I had at SW and I ate a lot healthier afterwards (much more fruit in my diet)
So why do I support SageWalk if it didn't do much for me?
Seeing other kids, who had basically given up on themselves of ever amounting to anything, leaving the program excited to go back out and prove themselves. That's the stuff you don't hear on these forums of gloom and doom. Yes, I understand there have been death, some that could have been prevented. But for all the death and tragedy, there are many more stories of success that don't seem to be welcome here.
dougm:
Dear Diary entry? You betcha.
That was my intention from the get-go. I'm trying to show how the typical day went and how I don't see the program amounting towards "abuse and torture".
Anonymous:
--- Quote ---On 2005-07-25 16:01:00, dougm wrote:
"
--- Quote ---
On 2005-07-25 13:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
"My question is: what exactly is therapeutic about any of these activities? What caused your parents to send you to Sagewalk, and how did those behaviors change when you came home?"
--- End quote ---
The "therapy" is really quite subtle, basically, you are given your basic needs in life and you are to "learn life" at a very simplistic level. You are forced to take care of yourself, which in the real world, these kids aren't doing. Another real positive aspect is for kids who abuse drugs (majority of the kids I was there with) is the sobering process. I personally have no qualms against drinking and smoking weed (I have done both since leaving the program) but abusing those plus more explicit drugs while a minor should not be tolerated by parents. The first couple of weeks sober is the most crucial time for addicts and what not to clean up. And since most of the kids there haven't been using for years upon years like many adults, they can usually leave the program without any sort of physical addiction (although the pyschological want can still be present).
The reason I was sent to Sagewalk was my behavior primarily. I was depressed, I was lethargic and unmotivated. I spent most of my waking hours on the computer, unless I was at school, but sleep took up most of my time (upwards of 14 hours a day). I was socially inept, no real friends (I sort of bounced around from clique to clique in HS). I ran away from home and attempted to drop out of school. I had no troubles with drugs or drinking at the time (typical experimentation with pot as a Freshman in HS and got drunk once about 3 months before I went to SW), my parents were just frustrated that I was unresponsive to the other forms of therapy and I refused to take medications at the time because I believed I was fine and it was my parents' fault for my problems. The final straw that sent me to SW was my dad driving me to school one day and then grabbing my arm and almost dragging me into school in front of pretty much everyone. I tried not to make a scene, but later I called him up at work and basically screamed "F*** YOU" into the phone and hung up. I was sent to SW 2 days later. The problem though, wasn't really pyschological though, I had undiagnosed diabetes. My blood sugar was sky high for over a year before I was finally diagnosed. The high blood sugar made me extremely fatigued, which caused me to sleep constantly and be slow and tired when I was awake.
As for my behavior changing after SW, not much changed. I was happy to be home for the first week or so. Then everything started to unwind, and I was admitted to the hospital a month after I left SW for suicidal thoughts. After I started insulin, 10 months after I left, it was almost a miracle, I gained 35 pounds in 3 months (115 to 150) and I got along fine with my parents. My parents were extremely apologetic about sending me to SW afterwards, but I couldn't be mad at anyone. No one knew, and you can't blame anyone for that. If one thing SW did for me was it really made me appreciate the little things, there were days after coming back where I would sit in a tub of warm water for hours on end. I attempted to purchase the same oats I had at SW and I ate a lot healthier afterwards (much more fruit in my diet)
So why do I support SageWalk if it didn't do much for me?
Seeing other kids, who had basically given up on themselves of ever amounting to anything, leaving the program excited to go back out and prove themselves. That's the stuff you don't hear on these forums of gloom and doom. Yes, I understand there have been death, some that could have been prevented. But for all the death and tragedy, there are many more stories of success that don't seem to be welcome here."
--- End quote ---
It's not that those stories aren't welcome here, it's that most of us have been in a facility and have been haunted by it ever since. By definition alone that is a failed program. Most of us are adults, long past our so called rebellious youth, and *have* learned to take care of ourselves, and usually we learn this is very different skill from the skills we picked up as a result of our incarceration. We can clearly see when you are teaching kids that they are not to be trusted, and that everything is their fault, life gets harder. You are right though...they *may* be less angry for a while, they may appreciate things more, but what is the underlying lesson? What's behind that stuff is WAY more important than a few surfacey improvements/changes. To basically ignore the warning signals you get from situations and push on through. You should know this lesson better than anyone, you were put into a program, a therapeutic program, for a medical issue. You could sue for that. That's what I've been talking about...professionals are supposed to tell people their options, and people with physical symptoms like that are supposed to be told to see a doctor for a thorough checkup. You are a perfect example of why. You say they didn't know...the reality of the situation is that counselors are trained in school to look for possible medical illnesses. And to refer people to a medical doctor if it seems possible that could be the cause. Look it up, it's in the DSM-IV the Bible for making diagnoses. The real reason they probably overlooked that---exactly because of their mentality that you can't be trusted, you are always to blame.
IMO, a physically intense program like that is completely negligent if it doesnt check the medical condition of ALL of its clients to make sure they are actually in good health before they march them through "blizzards" as they call it.
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