Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Brat Camp
Typical Day at Sagewalk
Anonymous:
--- Quote ---On 2005-08-03 21:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2005-07-31 08:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
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--- Quote ---The parents on strugglingteens have not "given up" on their kids. To the contrary, they are willing to make the ultimate sacrifice- sending their child away from home for help.
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Couldn't go a post without saying this could you?
Fuck you for thinking YOU made the ultimate sacrifice. Your CHILD did, in most cases, against their will. You merely did what the EDCON told you to do. You are a dollar sign and don't even know it."
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Relax! Emotions are getting too high here and when you regress to comments like "fuck you," you are not allowing dialogue to grow in any way. I don't agree with most of what goes on in these camps, but I do believe that most of these parents genuinly (can't spell today, sorry) want to try to do what is best for their child. Many of them have tried many other methods with little sucess. The parents that I have the problem with are the ones who haven't tried or put forth the full effort. Often, the whole family needs help, not just the "kid." One person's problems affects the whole family and everyone in the family contributes to this. This is why family therapy is so effective and important.
From watching "Brat Camp" on TV, I have to say that I have real problems with many of their methods. I don't know how kids are supposed to build trust when they switch guides on them as they did to this group even near the beginning of the program. When kids are lied to in order to enter the program, this does not build trust. IMHO, (I'm no professional)trust is one of the most important things these teens need to learn. Not just trust of others, but to trust themselves. That is part of many of their issues with lies. I don't see how surprising them repeatedly will enable them to build any of this trust. How will they ever learn to ask for help if they need it in the future. America is socialogically the most logical place for a program like this with it's rugged individualism. I find a lot of contradictory messages in this progam- for instance- you have to do it yourself vs. you need to do things for the sake of the group.
Finally, I question whether the 13 yr. old really has the maturity to be able to handle a program like this. His cognitive abilities are less developed and he is dealing with ADHD on top of it. I know many of you may not "believe in" ADHD/ADD, but I have it, and I'm telling you, it's real. Being told over and over that he is faking it isn't going to help him much. For years I had been told that I was just being passive aggresive and didn't want to do my work, or believed that I was lazy, or was told that I really wanted to fail, not succeed, etc. Trust me that really screws with your sense of self and creates some major emotional insercurity etc. later on... not that it can't be worked out of course :wink:BY NO MEANS HOWEVER DO I MEAN THAT HIS ADHD SHOULD BE USED AS AN EXCUSE!!! Far too often parents and kids justify unacceptable behavior under the guise of ADD. TO DO SO WOULD BE TO UNJUSTLY LEAVE THE CHILD TOTALLY UNPREPARED FOR LIFE IN THE REAL WORLD. He does however, need to be given TOOLS so he can RECOGNIZE when he is having a problem, COMPENSATE with his new skills and learn to COPE with his disadvantage to make him a productive member of society. I put this in caps because too often people will focus on my ADD after I mention that I have it and assume that the previous are not the beliefs that I hold. (We wind up saying the same things, but they go on arguing because they are too blind to see we really agree. I just sort of shut up at that point... lol)
The physical issues of that kid disturb me too because, not being a medical professional, I have no idea whether he is really capable of the tasks they are giving him or not. He is so much smaller than the other kids. I have physical challenges myself, so it makes me wonder how I would have been treated in such a program. I have very serious allergies and allergy induced asthma. I also have a weak immune system. (I've most grown out of the weak immune system part of things, but would need special blood if I ever had to receive a transfusion.)
Sorry to rant for so long. Some of these programs may have some validity and efficacy to them. Watching the program, I do see adjustments that I think they could make to have this work better. Of course, I'm no psychologist, the most I have done is the 3 psychology classes I had in college and the education I received from reading over my mom's shoulder when she was in grad school for social work. Not having studied this, I have no proof. I think more studies need to be done on this, but in the meantime, the welfare of these children should be safeguarded and watched extremely carefully."
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I totally agree about Derrick. The program is traumitizing him to the point where he is suffering from depression. He is falling apart and putting on a brave face. This is abusive and there is no excuse for it. It is enraging to me that the staff (and probably the viewers) don't see this because they are listening to and believing the narrator in spite of what their own eyes would see if the narration were turned off.
The saddest part of all is that he will probably never receive the very real help he needs.
Anonymous:
--- Quote ---On 2005-07-31 20:50:00, OverLordd wrote:
"YOU FUCKING INSULTING ANIMAL!!!
I go to that board and I'm nice, I post politely even though I hate you and I disagree. Then you bastards come over here and you dont even act civil? You are comeplete hypocates, no wonder your kids are so fucked up!!! No wonder they hate you!!! I spit on you and everything you stand for.
You are not caring!!! You sent your kid away!! Guess FUCKING WHAT!!! THATS NOT CARING!!! CARING IS NEVER LETTING IT HAPPEN IN THE FIRST PLACE. One day your kid will see this and he/ she will hate you and everything you are, but you will say you are right, because you are blind!!!
You say we are a hate group? You are worse, we may hate you, but you, you come the fuck over here, dont even have the balls to sign your post, and you act like your perfect little fucks raising your kids they way it was ment to happen. You are hypocates, you stand at Struggling teens and act like your all good and open minded but your more blind than us, all of you are animals, and dishonorable shit that I would not take the time to scrape off my boot."
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Hmmm, talk about hypocrites, I'm having real trouble with both sides of the issue here.
For the peple who are angry at the parents who send their kids to the camps:
Look, sometimes things happen, even in the best of families, and kids somehow wind up on the wrong path. Sometimes it truly is the fault of the parents, but I think for the most part all of the parents are trying everything they can. I've seen some very good parents struggling with "bad kids." I do worry that some of these kids will not be able to get out of their situation, but unfortunately, sometimes they just have to learn it the hard way once they are out from under your roof. It is hard for any loving parent to be able to do that...
For the parents who sent their children to the camp, who are angry at the other parents for insulting their parenting skills etc.:
Don't worry about their parenting skills. In theory, you know what is best for your children. Many of you have tried everything else to no avail. This does NOT mean however, that the parents that do NOT send their problem child (if they have one) to the camps is a bad parent either.
Can't we all just get along! :razz:
Anonymous:
On 2005-08-03 21:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
--- Quote ---
On 2005-07-31 08:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
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I totally agree about Derrick. The program is traumitizing him to the point where he is suffering from depression. He is falling apart and putting on a brave face. This is abusive and there is no excuse for it. It is enraging to me that the staff (and probably the viewers) don't see this because they are listening to and believing the narrator in spite of what their own eyes would see if the narration were turned off.
The saddest part of all is that he will probably never receive the very real help he needs."
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Well, you never know. Maybe, if he falls down again he'll get the help he needs. I wan't in as much trouble as Derrick, but I didn't find out about my ADD until my Soph. year in HS and my giftedness and learning disabilities until my first senior year of college. (I compensated for my shortcomings with my gifts- not that is was easy... lol)Eventually I got where I needed to be.
Anonymous:
what year were you there, and did you get a physical before you went out to the field? I didn't get one for 28 days after they dropped me off.
Anonymous:
As the step-parent of one of these type of chldren you have no clue the pain, anguish and heartbreak it takes to make a decision like these parents did.
I have watched my husband go to hell and back several times attempting to keep our son in the home, believing as all parents do, that we could help him... we were so wrong. When we finally gave in and sent him to a wilderness type program it was the most horrible decision to have to make. But the bottom line is that our son needed help we were not equiped to provide and despite years of appealing to almost every agency in Florida for help, no was available until my husband gave up custody to DCF. For all those undereducated folks, most treatment programs are not covered by insurance and run upwards of $500 dollars a day. Our son had become a danger to himself and our other children.
To all of those that cannot understand how a parent can "give up" a child like that and think it is the easy way out, should speak with my husband for even 5 minutes. You will find heartbreak, utter despair and a feeling of total failure. So until you have walked a mile in the shoes of one of these parents/caregivers please do not share your completly uneducated opinion, I pray that none of you ever face the kind of decisions that we have had to.
I wish that I had known about Sagewalk, please also know that the majority of these type of kids are master manipulators and it sounds as if you all have fallen for the acting/antics.
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