Author Topic: Typical Program Parent ??  (Read 8963 times)

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Offline Oz girl

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Typical Program Parent ??
« Reply #30 on: July 17, 2006, 05:18:59 AM »
I dont think it is a good idea for everyone to encourage this man to maintain the rage. I dont pretend to understand what he has been through or why his parents did what they did. I don't blame him for his reaction or for wanting to protect his children from any hurt. But nobody on this forum knows what the parents were thinking when they sent him or what kind of mind control they were under when they kept him there.  WWASPs seminars are also known to use cult tactics. How does anyone know the extent to which the parents regret things & whether they are so desperate to try to get the son back they are willing to try anything?
The evil that I see in this is WWASPS which have clearly destroyed this family .
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline Antigen

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« Reply #31 on: July 17, 2006, 07:04:08 AM »
Rage? Or just good healthy, solid resolve?

I count myself lucky that my mom went back to giving me the cold shoulder once I escaped my gulag. I worried quite a lot when my oldest daughter was young that she'd pull some shit and try to 'rescue' my kids from me.

At one point she actually did seem to be working in that direction. That's when I really shut her out of my life. That was the first time in my adult life that I ever made the foolish mistake of picking up the phone and calling her, of all people, for moral support. The trouble was that my husband was very ill in the hospital. I just needed someone to give a shit, someone to talk to, maybe a few words of assurance and comfort? What I got, instead, was nothing. No real response in that conversation, just 'uh huh, uh huh' sort of thing. Next day, the phone rings. It's her. She's been busy, busy, busy all morning making arrangements for me to check into residential treatment and for some foster care program or other to take care of my two kids, then aged 9 and 2.

Why, you must be asking yourself, would my mother think I needed residential treatment? You probably assume that there was some good basis for it. But then you're probably not factoring in how profound the cult conditioning can be when its philosophy and tenets are well supported by the broader society. Let me explain a little bit about that. The cult we were in was called The Seed till it changed it's name to Straight, Inc. Now they call themselves Drug Free America Foundation and have affiliations through stepcraft and government to almost every aspect of public and private life in this country.

It's a lot like that w/ the WWASP family of cults too. Concensus among the public seems to be that kids are wild animals by default and must be broken and controlled for their own safety and the public good. And there are enough crossovers in personage and philosophy between WWASP and the Seed line of programs to probably justify calling them branches of the same cult.

So this was 10 years after I went through the courts to get out of that program. In that time, my mom and I never did have any kind of relationship. We'd speak occasionally, as in when the occasion absolutely demanded it and there was no way around it. That's how we avoided fighting all the time. So she had no basis for thinking I was fucked up on drugs or fucked up in any other way except for the steady stream of reenforcement she got from her stepcraft practicing friends who had never even met me. The mantra here is once a druggie always a druggie till completion of a 12-step based program.

In reality, I was a good girl. I married, had a couple of kids, worked as much as I had to to make ends meet and take care of those kids. I never got into any trouble. Rarely broke the law even in letter and have always kept the common law to the very best of my ability. But she wouldn't know that because she never came to see me or even called me on the phone. The only times she ever made the 3 hr drive from her cozy home close to the Program back to my home in Pompano was when my brother talked her into it; once for my wedding and again just after my 2nd child was born. Neither time did she spend more than a few minutes just hanging out or make any effort at any serious conversation.

So she didn't know anything at all about me or how I live. She just assumed that, because I split the program without graduating and had not completed a program in the mean time, then I must, necessarily, have been a junkie by then. And she made it clear to me by her response that she had just been waiting for me to have a weak moment so that she could rope me into her highly unpleasant flight of fancy.

I would never, in a million years, leave my kids alone with this sadistic bitch. Her thoughts are scrambled and dark, her words are poison and, given any opening at all, she's demonstrated over and over again her intense will to destroy me.

I don't think we're feeding anybody's rage here. I think we're just offering a little moral support to a fellow former POW in the war on drugs and our own offspring. Hang tough, friend! You're the parent. You decide who is and is not a good influence on your kids. That's your job.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #32 on: July 17, 2006, 08:02:39 AM »
fair enough. I take your point. I am sorry about the situation with your mother. I agree with everything you said about wider American media culture encouraging this mentality.

(To those who think people outside of the us would not know at all. Your media is everywhere. We too read time & newsweek in Australia)

That does not change the fact that I feel sad for the entire family when I read about this sort of thing. I am not necessarily saying that the guy should take his kids to grandma on a daily basis but it blows me way that so many people including the parents of these kids at these gulags can become so damaged by it all for years to come. Did the parents bring it on themselves? probably.Would i be any different in his shoes? i doubt it. But is it any less sad? i dont think so.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #33 on: July 17, 2006, 09:36:35 AM »
How? Im not being arrogant or a smart arse here just what did i miss?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline Antigen

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« Reply #34 on: July 17, 2006, 10:58:51 AM »
Pls help, I don't think you missed it. And yes, it is sad. But what's one to do?

And yes, I think the parents do bring it on themselves. They're the ones who get recruited, not the kids.

And there's something else. I have a basis for comparison here. My dad was completely different. His involvement and support for the Program was tepid most of the time. Mom dragged him along pretty much unwillingly. He did do an outrageous thing or two along the way. But then so did I and, eventually, he came clean with the fact that it had been a big mistake and never messed with me again after that. If my mother had had the same confidence in her own parenting ability and in us kids to manage growing up we never would have been involved in that mess at all.

Then there's the cop accross the street. Had a big Irish brood of 6 just like us. I was good friends w/ his two younges and my older sister hung w/ the next youngest. When my mom went a recruitin' over there, they slammed the door not only in her face but mine as well. No one ever really explained it to me, but suddenly my best friends were not allowed to even talk to me. I think they, very rightly, were afraid of our family after having spent that valuable time w/ my mom.

Program parents are a whole lot like those whack jobs who lurk around their neighborhoods at night in search of teenagers breaking cerfew so they can have a little excitement in their lives and call the cops on them. In fact one of my brothers grew up to be just such a whack job after graduating the seed and marrying a former Seed staffer. I just have to shake my head in amazement. I don't see much of my brother either, maybe once or twice in a few years and usually at weddings and funerals. So the changes in him are stark when I do see him. I just don't know how this could have happened. I thought he got out of it pretty much ok, but I guess that was just wishful thinking.

You know, Art Barker used to go on and on about taking over the world with his schtick. And I remember 'take over the world' raps pretty frequently at Straight. I don't think anyone should take that too lightly, especially once you consider the political clout of the people at the core of it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2006, 04:06:11 AM »
I am glad for you that you can have a relationship with one of your parents. I wonder if some of these people remain so adamant because of guilt? because they just cant face what has happened to their kids? What they have done? I read the deperate measures story about the lad who shot himself & whose mother was convinced that WWASPS kept him from doing it sooner. It was just chilling. The hold this mentality had over her. The irony of doing this to "save" your kid & loosing them one way or another anyway. I dont have kids but i do know that i can't imagine how bad it would be if my nieces & nephews were not allowed in my life because of some irreperable rift that i or my parents had caused.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #36 on: July 18, 2006, 10:45:33 PM »
Quote from: ""Pls help""
I dont think it is a good idea for everyone to encourage this man to maintain the rage. I dont pretend to understand what he has been through or why his parents did what they did. I don't blame him for his reaction or for wanting to protect his children from any hurt. But nobody on this forum knows what the parents were thinking when they sent him or what kind of mind control they were under when they kept him there.  WWASPs seminars are also known to use cult tactics. How does anyone know the extent to which the parents regret things & whether they are so desperate to try to get the son back they are willing to try anything?
The evil that I see in this is WWASPS which have clearly destroyed this family .


Actually, I really don't need any encouragement in my rage, anger, hate, contempt, disgust or any other emotion I feel towards my so-called biological parents.  I can handle it well enough on my own.  My parents gave up any right to be a part of my life the day I was kidnapped and forcibly transported to that little bit of hell.  They agreed that talking to or visiting me-or even uncensored letters to and from me-were a bad thing for a while.  Fine, I'm just continuing with that philosophy.  Who the hell ever heard of a kid having to EARN the right to see or talk to his own parents?  EARN the right to look out a window?  EARN the right to freedom of speech (thought the constitution gave that to us-guess Litchfield doesn't believe in it.  Would he complain if his rights were disregarded that way?)  After that, they feel they have a right to be a part of my life-after they deliberately gave it up?  Let me make it clear-if I got a call from my sister that one of them was on their deathbed and wanted to make amends-I'm too busy to travel to see them.  Ok, so I used them to get an education-like I said, payback is hell.

By the way, my family is in wonderful shape.  It's just that my parents aren't a part of it.  My sister is at least on the edges-we communicate, but aren't really close.  Why should we be?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #37 on: July 18, 2006, 11:04:47 PM »
fair enough. I dont dispute you or pass judgement on your views. WWASP facilities sound awful. I genuinely hope you are happy with your life now & that the whole ordeal has made you closer to your new family.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #38 on: July 18, 2006, 11:06:06 PM »
"Let me make it clear-if I got a call from my sister that one of them was on their deathbed and wanted to make amends-I'm too busy to travel to see them."

Too busy even to gloat?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Antigen

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« Reply #39 on: July 19, 2006, 04:23:09 PM »
I know just what you mean, Guest!

It took me two years, several 'vacations' and a trip through the JJD system, Florida foster care and, finally, the courts to gain my freedom. Once I came of age a month or two later, my dear brother and his former Seed staff member wife very politely told me to pack it in. So I thought I'd go see if I could make things work at home. After all, I was a legal adult so they couldn't force me into the program again, right? Well, sort of, read on.

I got home, signed up for night school and got a job.That lasted about two weeks till the first time I went to a party, crashed on the couch and didn't come home. When I went home to get my work uniform, guess what? De Ja Vouse all over again; all of my clothes were missing and I had an appointment for an intake 'interview' at the LIFE program accross town. That lasted about 2 hours till my rents came into the room and gave me the ultimatum I had been angling for; sign yourself in or leave and don't ever ask for anything from us except for treatment. "Hmm, tough decision! Bye!"

About a mile or so down the road, they pulled over just ahead of me. I stopped and waited for them to leave. No fuckin' way was I giving up what I had fought so hard to earn!

When my sis asked me if I wanted to have a say in decisions about elder care for my mom, I told her to let me know when they had decided to put her somewhere and I'd find just the perfect nursing home! She laughed. She knows how it is. She just didn't get quite the same rough ride I did.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #40 on: July 19, 2006, 10:31:35 PM »
I am really impressed how good a life  you created and am amazed you handle things so well.  Sorry you got stuck with such "mother".  Doesn't sound like she did anything to earn the title.  Just a thought here:  My daughter was friends with a young lady  and her sister throughout  jr. high and high school.  Their folks were real liberal: the only rule in the house was that there were no rules.  When they were 12 and 13 they lived on their own in town because their folks lived way far out and they had to get up at 5 to get the bus.  At the age of 13 the girl's boyfriend was living with her and the family.  Sex, drugs, alcohol was available and not taboo. No curfews; mom drove the kids and their friends to Grateful Dead concerts etc.  Most of the other families had heart attacks thinking about how they were being raised.  Well, guess what?  Today they are both very lovely young women.  Smart, hardworking, educated, comopassionate, funny DECENT human beings with a great realtionship with their mother (their father, unfortunately perished in an auto accident ). They decided on their own they valued education and went after it.    They are successful in every way because they like who they are and they have built lives that they enjoy and work for them.  I never would have predicted it.  It may have helped that their parents gave them unconditional love and encouragement, never put them down or in the middle of their own issues.  They also did not micromanage their kid"s feelings, emotions and behavior; they just let them be.After years of people clucking their tongues and shaking their heads these women have the last laugh.  
I am glad you got free of the egg donor.   Do not doubt for a minute that you are on the right path although there will be many who will try to guilt trip you about your mother.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #41 on: July 20, 2006, 02:44:13 AM »
I am just wondering. You said you have a relationship with your dad as he was not as adamant about things & did not support your mum in every decision. Did it cause tension between him & your mum that you were in contact with him? or did their marriage end over it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline Anonymous

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out of country programs
« Reply #42 on: July 22, 2006, 05:49:07 PM »
Hi Kathleen,
               I am one of the "program parents" that sometimes visit this website, even though my opinions are not usually welcome.

    I understand fully that your son was out of control, what was tried at home wasn't working, and that he needed to be placed. Especially with your background in the criminal justice system, you are fully aware of what his future could become.

    I guess my only issue is why you chose  programs that were outside of the United States? The people who run and frequent this website argue that these all of theses facilities(US or abroad) are not regulated or monitored. I would think that being out of the country would make it even harder to really know what goes on.

  I do have a son at a TBS in the US. I have family that lives one hour away. While I feel that although they would not be happy to have  an unannounced visit, the fact that I could do so at anytime makes me feel much better. I am also in contact with other parents who whenever they are up visiting their children, check-in with our son.
  I guess I am having trouble with the concept of the children away in foreign countries. I am glad that things are working out for your son. I would just be very wary of what actually goes on in these programs.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #43 on: July 22, 2006, 09:30:08 PM »
Quote
While I feel that although they would not be happy to have an unannounced visit, the fact that I could do so at anytime makes me feel much better.


I wouldn't put my dog in a kennel with this policy, and you entrust them with your child? Shame on you! ::noway::
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #44 on: July 23, 2006, 02:26:49 PM »
Since is salves your conscience that you could visit unannounced at any time I am wondering if you ever have done so or are you content just to think all is well because you could do it, that is if you ever really wanted to.
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