Three Springs Alumni

[Nihilanthic]

Yes, TSW, I dont know. It was all extremely vague and general, JUST like a lot of the kids getting sent off to WWASPS - vague, general indefensible (cant prove OR disprove) type of shit.

"I need to send my kid to a structured boarding school for self esteem to push her to excellence". Ok, yes, in the USA you are free to send your kid to some secured facility like that because you think she needs self esteem, but realistically speaking, how is that going to help a child? Ok youre gonna live here now and youre not free to go anywhere and you can only do what the school says, no friends, no freedom, bla bla bla.

But anyway, TSW, I got two bones to pick with you:

You not thinking its a parent is based on an assumption claiming that her treatment terminology marks her as a troll. The same kind of treatment terminology used by many other posters on fornits on a regular basis that are not considered trolls.

More than likely, shes not someone whose ben posting here a while! She came accross as someone who just got blown in with the wind that is Google (or some other search engine) who jumped in the thread asking for info on a program. Yeah, I do realize some people pick up those terms and use them, but most people STILL dont.

But regardless, why do you jump down my throat for being vague and general and not having facts when she did the same exact fucking thing? She just spills out a bunch of vague feel-good terminology, god damn at least she didnt say paragidm... and says becuase of that (such as SELF ESTEEM!!!1) she needs to send her kid off somewhere to get locked up for a long time. Wheres the standard there?

Even with a demonstrated line of evidence right in front of your eyes, again look harder it's right in front of you, and no I won't enlighten you as I would be depriving you of an excellent characeter building opprotunity. Use your super dooper decoder ring from your secret organization, and the truth will be made aware to yourself!

How about... I forget about this within the next 5 minutes and not ever give a damn?  ::both::

I dont play games of vagueness where the person on the other end can use it to put you in a double bind, or just jerk you around... ESPECIALLY after you gave me a mouthfull over vagueness and assumption.

Either say it, or expect me to give about as much of a fuck as I do now. I respect you but when you say crap like that the last thing Im going to do is ruminate over it like some Zen Koan. I dont care! I dont play those kind of 'grasshoppah' bullshit type things!

A celibate clergy is an especially good idea because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism.
--Carl Sagan, American astronomer and author

[Nihilanthic]

ASS-U-ME LOL!!!1one

There, did I take the pebble out of your hand?

Now yeah, guess what? Im assuming. MY point is that people throw children away into programs on the same ground, nothing but bullshit thats vague, general, unsubstantiated and 'horse crap'... but thats okay?

I cant say "watch out, its bullshit, why not share some details?" But oh she can throw a kid in a lockin facility just because she feels like it?

The real lesson here is that theres a big double standard and becuase you worked for the industry, while I have not (and its no secret that Im very much not liking any of it at all right now) thus youre more inclined to just trust what Mrs Tweedle-Dum said about her kid. BTW, the vagueness in what she said is HER FAULT, not mine! I didnt choose what she said, she did, go bitch her out for saying vague unsubstantiated horse crap about her kid.

Hey, why dont YOU qualify, quantify, explain in a proof, etc, why a child needs to be kept in a secured 'boarding school' for self esteem issues and be pushed for excellence? Why the fuck cant a parent do that?

YOU are assuming that the child needs help and theres an actual problem, and that its an actual parent, unless either 1. you posted it anonymously yourself or 2. there is a correspondance Im not aware of.

P.S. - Wheres that program that would not take a child that was found to not really have anything wrong? Still lookin' fer one!

No citizen of a liberal and democratic nation profits from a victorious war.
--Ludwig von Mises

[Helena Handbasket]

On 2005-10-02 10:39:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:

"Forget it all you want that is your problem not mine, or really what your saying is you looked and you just can't pick up on the obvious?

Why don't you just say what's so obvious - because I missed it too.  I have to agree - when I hear words like "structure" "self esteem" and "wholesome", I tend to cringe.

It's kinda like walking onto a used car lot, and you already know what's going to spew out of the face of the balding, badly dressed salesman walking your direction.  You brace yourself, as he shakes your hand, and lo and behold - here it comes... the windup, the pitch, and ZING - yep - it's  everything you've already heard.  

Are you saying you wouldn't pre-emptively strike down bullshit? Or do you just let it play out?

But we're not talking about cars here, we're talking about kids.  Living, breathing souls that are going to have to live with the crap their parents fall for.

What's obvious to me is that this woman is trying to wrap buzzwords around her kid, and the fact is that there are places out there that will not question the parent's motives.  If you're such a professional, why don't you question more?

[Helena Handbasket]

On 2005-10-02 11:18:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:

"Becareful they wee little people might be watching you!...

Ok, so you're picking on presumptions of those who are also opposed to TBSs.  So what's your opinion of the OP, other than that she needs a remedial English class?

[Nihilanthic]

On 2005-10-02 11:18:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:

"Becareful they wee little people might be watching you!



First of all my arguement to date has had absolutely nothing to do with her decision to search for a structured boarding school for her child. No where have I said I think we need to start locking up kids for no apparent reason. I have certainly not started some crusade to enlighten the chipmunks of the forest on the benifits of programs everywhere. What I have contended with this whole time is your vague meanderings.



Your vagueness has everything to do with the fact that your asserting the poster is a troll based on terminology. No where have I brought in my opinions on her decision to seek out a structured boarding school for her child. If anything I have refrained from putting forward my opinion on that matter in the absence of information.



To date thus far in the contention of this issue I had made no comments into my opinion regarding the nature of the child's exact needs. This relates back to the issue of not knowing the exact details of the family's situation. For the majority of this issue I have questioned your wild speculations based on absolutely nothing.



My past record here for the most part has to encourage people to avoid sending their children to TBS style settings. I have used the insight I gained through my employment in the industry to make suggestions for those people who have asked. This has happened on numerous occasions, and on a couple of occasions its been suggested I make contact with parents over on Struggling Teens to provide information, and I have done just that.



My point that I have made again, and again in a very clear manner is that you have no idea what the story is about this woman, and her child, but yet your attempting to argue a position that you have no knowledge of. Even more amusing is now your starting to make assertions that somehow I am a predisposed to favoring programs. Perhaps holding onto reality just a little bit tighter is a thought to consider.



Try not to wander off the point to much next time.

The great enemy of truth is very often not the lie-deliberate, contrived, and dishonest-but the myth-persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
--John F. Kennedy, U.S. President

"

So, HOW many words to say you: "think Im a jackass for assuming shes not a legitimate parent"?

Thanks. Really, this was much more personally growthful than if we had avoided the M.A.D. flamewar.

I still think that the way she spoke was VERY, VERY fishy, and out of the norm. It did not strike me as a 'scared' parent, or a concerned one, just the bright-eyed (from all the glaze) tone of a parent wanting the McTherapy Deluxe combo (to go) for her kid.

If you disagree, thats fine, but its not like there isnt a long standing record of programmie parents here and abroad (struggling teens?) acting like buffoons, or people who are already drunk off of 'the punch' who talk that way.

I still must insist - WHO THE FUCK TALKS THAT WAY Except for... programmies, salespeople, trolls, or people who have been in a program? I really dont want to be an ass about this, but come the hell on  TSW. I have a point. The tone and vocabulary was way out of left field for the non-program norm and exactly what Id expect FROM a programmite.

History does not record anywhere or at any time a religion that has any rational basis. Religion is a crutch for people not strong enough to stand up to the unkonwn without help. But, like dandruff, most people do have a religion and spend time and money on it and seem to derive considerable pleasure from fiddling with it.
--Robert A. Heinlen, American science-ficiton author

[Nihilanthic]

Being black and/or having a lisp is not a choice. How you speak IS! You pick up your vocabulary depending on who you hang around, and what you do.

Go listen to some frat boys talk, then go listen to teachers. They talk based on what who their friends/peers are and who theyre talking to.

Businessey people might say paradigm a lot. And yeah, people will use slang with whatever culture they identify with - regardless of race.

Now, considering those words are very much OUTSIDE of common useage except for a few groups, is it as safe assumption to make? Id think so.

I do realize it is an assumption, but it is all Im able to due in lieu of knowledge. And another thing is that when you have to guess, if you can make one with information available to estimate in lack of concrete knowledge, its better than nothing at all.

But hey, we do agree that TBS's are to be avoided and the woman was vague and nonspecific and severely lacking in any information. I just inferred the vagueness and the lingo to reflect something to do with the programs ALREADY - because thats how they talk!

This isn't talking with a lisp = gay, this is more like a man talking about his boyfriend = gay.

Revelation indeed had no weight with me.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor

[ This Message was edited by: Nihilanthic on 2005-10-02 13:19 ]

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-02 10:20:00, Nihilanthic wrote:

"

On 2005-10-02 10:06:00, Anonymous wrote:


""Oh mommy - nobody likes me cause I'm stupid and ugly and fat"





"There, there Sally darling, it's ok.  You are uglier than dirt, so we'll go take you to get a makeover!





Oh - and I think an ice cream would help.  But you are such a fat ass, maybe we should stop at the salad bar instead"





Brilliant!  I certainly hope you don't have kids or you grow up a little before you do.





"

Brilliant! Your inductive logic and the implication I was trying to give are non-existant and went way over your head, respectively!



Ok, icecream and makeover might not work with someone who is lactose intolerant, vegan, or a fatass. SPIFFY. Some kids might like some things more than makeovers to do for fun, SPIFFY!



The point was to do something the child would really enjoy, because when youre having fun you dont feel so fucking shitty and depresed and forget about what made you feel so bad, and because it gives them a chance to open up and talk. Personally speaking, if I feel bad and a friend of family member or my GF gives me attention I feel better, is everyone else on earth so different?



All the girls I know liked icecream and makeovers... now obviously a guy woudlnt like that unless he was a little fruity... how about a burger joint and a trip to a movie or rent him a video game? Go do mini golf or go-karts? Sports? Sheesh! Use your imagination!



BTW - if you think that fat women dont like to eat icecream or get cosmetic shit done then I suggest you take your ass down to a neighborhood salon and see some of those fat  women that are damn fucking in love with their fat asses getting their hair and nails done, and call them ugly as dirt, ok? They're enjoying themselves and feeling good and thats what the whole damn point was.



Maybe they could slap some shit into you or tell you to grow up.



P.S. - how are you both so pedantic and stupid at the same time?

A student burst into his office.  "Professor Stigler, I don't believe I deserve this F you've given me."  To which Stigler replied, "I agree, but unfortunately it is the lowest grade the University will allow me to award."
--Professor Stigler

"

Lovely - I think this post sums up your *ahem* intelligence quite nicely.  Not to mention giving us a wonderful insight into your caring and sensitivity.

What an ass.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-02 07:47:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-10-02 07:01:00, Anonymous wrote:


"

On 2005-10-02 06:07:00, Helena Handbasket wrote:



"

So that's your solution to low self-esteem?  Take her for a makeover and an ice cream?!?!?!?!

I think a huge point sailed right over your head. In this scenario of a girl-child with low self esteem - the kid gives a clue to the parent that she feels like she might be ugly, and the parent takes the reigns and involves themselves in that kids life in something directly aimed at the "I think I'm ugly" problem.  







Of course, if she felt fat, you'd probably pass by the ice cream shoppe, and head for a salad bar, while chit-chatting about how to make low fat and low calorie less boring.







I think Niles was describing the first step in parental involvement.  Of course there's more to it than a makeover and ice cream.  But living a normal life while working these things out like normal people builds self esteem from within, not in some artifically crafted emo-dome.







Possibly the worst thing for this type of kid is to isolate them from the rest of the world, while they're worked over by a peer group whose very nature is to wear down self esteem, and rebuild in it the image OF The Program, which is generally incongruent with normal society.







What happens to the thin veneer of self esteem then?







 

I certainly hope that a poster with a child suffering for low self-esteem doesn't take your advice for a makeover and ice cream.  I hope they get the child therapy, counseling, or whatever is needed to help the child. What's your advice for a depressed child - take them to see a funny movie?

Why is it that the first thing you want to do is make a generic teen malady into psychiatric emergency?  EVERY TEEN AT SOME POINT Goes through self esteem problems, depression, anger, generalized pissiness.







What's your advice to a kid with zits?  Plastic Surgery?"

You certainly seemed to have read more into the simpleton advice that was there.  So I assume you think the "makeover and ice cream" is fantastic advice??  Oh wait, you are going to act as interpreter and tell us what Niles REALLY meant to say.





Gee - ever stop and think when you take a child who thinks they are ugly to get a "makeover", you are confirming in their mind that you think they ARE ugly and need a makeover???  Ever think that going to the salad bar with a kid that thinks they are fat may be reenforcing that thought?  Ever think that if the kid IS fat, it may (or may not be) a symptom of something else, and not just a love of Oreos?





And how did you make the flying leap to isolating the kid?  or a psychiatric emergency? I never came CLOSE to saying anything like that. I believe if you READ my post, you will see I said "therapy, counseling, or whatever is needed to help the child"."  





Amazing how you can twist Niles' words into something that sounds a little more reasonable (at least on the surfact), but take mine and twist them into something outlandish.

















"

Ever stop and think you're a fucking moron?  What a dope."

As opposed to your brilliant insight?  Did you have a point here?  If so, you forgot to make it.

[Three Springs Survivor]

It was very important for me to read what your post.  During my experience at Three Springs Paint Rock Valley in the early 90's, I suffered through a lot of emotional and physical abuse.  To hear some one who worked in that Hell and feel regret about their participation means a lot to me.  I wish others would come out and speak about what happened.  A lot of us good "kids" need closure.

It has been 11 years since I was a resident and I still suffer nightmares.  Three Springs is a program that has the potential to churn out violent, anti social, anti authority sociopaths. It needs to be closed.

[Three Springs Survivor]

Oh, and so that you know I am not some idiot trying to ruffle feathers around here, my ID at Three Springs was NR336.  I was in two seperate groups.  I was moved after running away with another resident in a counselors car. I remember a lot of staff and residents names.  I remember my campsites all too well.  I would like to share my story when the time is right.  I am not sure how I will be recieved in these forums.  I am just looking for support, an outlet, people like me.  I have been in several other programs listed in these forums.  All of them as a teenager.

I am doing much better in my life now.  I actually do work for a residential treatment facility in upstate NY today.

[Three Springs Survivor]

What years were you working for them?  Do you have any idea who I am?

[Three Springs Survivor]

Ok, thats good.  I'm going to post a new thread called Three Springs Experience.  I would like you to read it and see how much worse it probably was before you worked their.  Any feedback you may have is welcome.

[Oscar]

Hey.....  Three springs caught my eye.  I graduated from Auldern Academy.  Did you have any contact with the people there?

Auldern Academy is now on "1000 places You don't want to be as a teenager"

818. Auldern Academy