Author Topic: Missing Alumni  (Read 13951 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #45 on: August 04, 2005, 10:03:00 AM »
No one needs to yell at you. The facts above are facts, that's all. Doesn't matter who writes them really. Just go back through these pages and the stories are here. Some of us just get upset at times reading what you girls had to go through, that's all. This is an open forum, it's OK for people to do this.

If MMS helped you somehow, despite what went on, then OK. There's no reason anyone should argue someone else's experience. But there is reason for people with concerns for what they went through to post their thoughts and experiences in hopes it will help another girl down the road.

MMS is not equipped to take a lot of kids so they are choosy, no doubt. And that's OK too. Most programs take any kind of kid is all. And MMS has taken kids with psychological problems, deep issues such as sexual molestation and rape, and have not handled the situations well, is all. Making a kid reveal all in group and then not dealing with it afterwards, especially done by someone who is not licensed to do so, just isn't right. I would think anyone would agree with that.

So there's no reason for debate here. Again, these are just facts previously stated in this forum.
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Offline katfish

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« Reply #46 on: August 04, 2005, 11:54:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-08-04 06:52:00, Anonymous wrote:

"i'm sorry, this is such bullshit.  they don't just take anyone on.  there is a long application process... there are conversations with the parents, a look at the families history.  if they just took everyone on for profit they would have hundreds of children at their school, but no... it's not that easy just to end up there.  there are 30 something girls at a time... they dont' accept every stubborn child who comes along.  it's not incarceration.  no one is locked in.  this website is hateful and malicious and ridiculous at times.  sharing personal stories, sure... but random outsiders coming in and making judgements... making claims that they have no knowledge about... stupid.  anyway.  i'm sure this will start a debate.  fun."



who says you need walls to be locked in- i think its common knowledge and goes without saying that people can create invisible walls through fear, threats and intimidation- generally speaking.  Just look at battered womens syndrome.  

Their long application process to allow in the few girls to keep the size managable (although I suspect that will continue to change and they will continue to expand) is obviously not working.  They continue to inflict a great deal amount of damage onto girls and this is most certainly cause for alarm.
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #47 on: August 04, 2005, 02:00:00 PM »
hey kat,
 what exactly do you do?  it seems you are online, on this website every moment of your life.
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Offline katfish

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« Reply #48 on: August 04, 2005, 04:40:00 PM »
i am- online A LOT, at least.  I'm finishing up my BA and do work for CASA w/ foster kids- during the school year I work with kids as aater school counselor. Come next year though I'll be done with school and hope to be dedicating much of my time to some human rights cause somewhere in the world, plus doing advocacy work to help get schools like MMS regulated.

Then grad school? law school?

what do u do?[ This Message was edited by: katfish on 2005-08-04 13:41 ]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
Margaret Mead

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #49 on: August 04, 2005, 05:57:00 PM »
ya kat get a life, dude, HA HA HA.  oh wait, you have one, huh?  hmmm...

got ur email and thought i should post here, ladies, we did far more work than is legal even in Montata for children...  well, maybe we didnt because we didn't really have school? LOL- what a crock, where's the lawyer ladies?

http://data.opi.state.mt.us/bills/mca/41/2/41-2-115.htm


  41-2-115. Working hours. (1) Unless otherwise exempt or as provided in subsection (2), a minor who is 14 or 15 years of age:
     (a) may not be employed before 7 a.m. or after 7 p.m., except that the minor may be employed until 9 p.m. during periods outside the school year (June 1 through Labor Day, depending on local standards); or
     (b) may not be employed more than:
     (i) 3 hours on a school day;
     (ii) 18 hours in a school week;
     (iii) 8 hours on a nonschool day; or
     (iv) 40 hours in a week in a nonschool week.
     (2) A minor who is 14 or 15 years of age and who is enrolled in and employed pursuant to a school-supervised and school-administered work experience or career exploration program approved by the department or the office of public instruction may be employed up to 23 hours in 1 week when the program is in session, any portion of which may be during school hours.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #50 on: August 04, 2005, 06:37:00 PM »
Kat has a life, why attack her? It makes no sense, unless you're some sort of a troll trying to stir up trouble on this forum. If so, just go away.

She's trying to find sense in all of this nonsense and is trying to help other girls. I don't see the harm in that. Isn't that what any good citizen should do? Come to the rescue of children who otherwise cannot help themselves? That's what this is all about. Children, yes, children. Under 18 are considered children.

Keep up your good works, Kat.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #51 on: August 04, 2005, 07:16:00 PM »
4 the record i wasnt attacking k, opposite actually. i was poking a bit of fun at what the person seemed to be implying that asked if k spent all her time on this site...  far as i can tell, kat does little else but work.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #52 on: August 04, 2005, 07:19:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-08-04 06:56:00, Anonymous wrote:

" not perfect, they agree with me on that, but it saved my life and gave them piece of mind which they hadn't had in years.  
  i was just a depressed kid who got lost in the teenage wasteland and needed to get out of the shittown i lived in.  and please feel free to get angry and "yell" at me now.  i really could care less."
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #53 on: August 04, 2005, 07:34:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-08-04 06:56:00, Anonymous wrote:

" not perfect, they agree with me on that, but it saved my life and gave them piece of mind which they hadn't had in years.  
  i was just a depressed kid who got lost in the teenage wasteland and needed to get out of the shittown i lived in.  and please feel free to get angry and "yell" at me now.  i really could care less."


weren't we all?  heres what i dont understand.

it saved my life:  this is what MMS told us and taught us to think.  Without MMS we would DIE.  We  were on the path toward DEATH or JAIL- withouth a doubt 100%.  But that likely stated the obvious and thats not the problem, what comes next is the problem FOLLOW EXACTLY WHAT WE SAY, WITHOUT QUESTION AND YOU WILL LIVE.  No one knows this to be true or not, if you or i would have died, but if u read interviews of other schools that are WAY WORSE than MMS this is what the students say as well- and these kids really had some shit thrown there way. They say, well, it was bad, but it saved my life...as if the schools can't be wrong in what they did b/c you happen to be alive today.  

Yes, you may still be alive and MMS can also be abusive all at the same time.  Or they can have problems that make them mostly ineffective in what they do, selectively work, or can do more harm.  And then you have depression before and after, because of MMS, because they are unskilled and unqualified and use methods that are questionable in their effectiveness (especially if someone is suicidal/depressed or otherwise mentally ill)  

B/c you are alive doesn't meant that the school was just or ethical/treated us with dignity/respect, or that the staff really knew what they were doing, or that all that work we did for the school was not really abuse or that all the humiliation we endured was not abuse, or that the hours of excsercize was not abuse, or that the inability to be critical of the school and think for ourselves was not wrong or that the sadism of the staff was not abuse... i could go on.  


it was not perfect:  got that right.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #54 on: August 04, 2005, 08:07:00 PM »
i will defend that school to the grave.  as well as john and colleen.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #55 on: August 04, 2005, 09:28:00 PM »
And after all they did to keep you alive? lol I can't take it. To the death! ha ha, that's funny.  some people just can't see past their own exp. and find it necc. to defend the harmful actions upon others just b/c they werent (or perhaps they were) directed directly at them or maybe they just can't do it b/c they would have been DEAD without the school.  sigh, whadya goin' to do. speaks volumes, doesn't it?  I can undestand defending Gary, but John- NO ONE says John is a good guy, he's a creep  and Colleen is his side kick.  ha ha- i just pciture them wearing action figue costumes, flying around saying kids from certain death through knowing look of 'i got you bullshit' and sending kid to work out her anger on a pile of wood  for fire for their personal use in their log cabin.  such a joke.

anyways i read this and cut and pasted it  


I'm not willing to dismiss your anecdotal evidence as easily as others. If you had positive experiences then that is great. I'm really glad it worked out.

For me, the coercive part is the most objectionable aspect. It's the concept that a group of people can force an ideology onto someone against their will. In the case of Brat Camp, it is difficult to understand my objections. Who can object to turning drug abusing teens into well behaving teens? But did you know that some of these camps are designed to force a 'Christian' perspective on the students? Did you know there are camps that are designed to force gay kids into being straight? These kids are also in these camps against their will (parents can do this in the USA).

I watch the show and cringe thinking of how I would have reacted to these counselors and this form of therapy. My core values are not popular and often misunderstood. I formed these values during childhood. They are not my parents values. Had I been sent to one of these camps and forced to act in a certain way to progress through the program, knowing that if I did not give in, the chances would be good that I would end up in one of these oppressive boarding schools, I honestly think I would become either homicidal or suicidal; the tragic result of which the program would call my 'choice.' To me, this process is too close to 'A Clockwork Orange' and too Orwellian in nature to be ethical.

Even the language used. "We are giving these kids the opportunity to change." That implies choice where there really is not choice. The student must accept the program, period. The program will not the student go until he submits. That is coercion, which to me is intrinsically wrong. The ends does not justify the means.
http://www.sociopranos.com/forums/threa ... &posts=449
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #56 on: August 07, 2005, 11:30:00 AM »
i will make sure as many people possible understand just how harmful mms was to me and others~ 'till the grave
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #57 on: August 07, 2005, 01:28:00 PM »
okay so tell us...just how harmful and how messed up it made you...
after all your parents sent you there so why no look at them first?? didn't they agree to what when on?
my parents did.....
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #58 on: August 07, 2005, 04:48:00 PM »
my parents didn't know what was going on.  and  what little they did know went a long with the lack of understanding how damging it was.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #59 on: August 07, 2005, 04:50:00 PM »
parents can agree to all kinds of things- what a stupid point to attempt to make.  parents may make mistakes- parents may agree that certain types of abuse are good- they are human and fallible and sometimes wrong.
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