REUNION!!!!

[Anonymous]

B-

I would like to know what you think about the topic "please step in to reality"....I am sure you have read it. Why have you not tried to argue that?

[Anonymous]

how's the bottom line different at MMS now? Or are you refereing Johns personal bottom line- like his kids are his priority?  

I'm not sure how anyone is jusging them now, but perhaps some may be judging based on somewhat recent experiences.  The girls that may judge them now b/c they are their students are at the school.

I'm not sure what's so interesting about people still taking about john and colleen- i would say it's indicative of some girls who feel the trauma still penetrates their lives in come way or they want vinidcation or some girls feel very attached to them.  I don't think it's possible to feel nuetral on the topic of MMS, specifically, on john and colleen after being forced to stay at that behavior-modification facility for a couple years.  That's the point of these facilities, to have an impact.  Studies have shown that these effects are frequently undesireable.    

http://www.nospank.net/pinto.htm

[Anonymous]

B: you say you "don't have that fear with them anymore."  What does that mean? What happened while you were there that caused you FEAR?

[Anonymous]

You will never convince me that any girl who was made to reveal details of sexual molestation to some MAN who is not a licensed therapist came out of this so-called school better off from such an experience! Never!

[Anonymous]

Okay....so i meant bottom line as in john has changed...no argument.

(its gonna be long and spellings bad)----sorry

"I'm not sure how anyone is jusging them now, but perhaps some may be judging based on somewhat recent experiences."
Have you not read any of the posts?? there is constant judging and "bashing" of J & C. even from those who have been "out" for years.

"I don't think it's possible to feel nuetral on the topic of MMS, specifically, on john and colleen after being forced to stay at that behavior-modification facility for a couple years."
I do feel there is a way of being netural of MMS. I nothing but respect for the people who were there when I was a student and of the staff that are still there. We weren't easy girls. People talk of intervention, and having to go twice during there stay....I can't count how many times I was on intervention....Just an Example of how hard we were, as a group. NOT saying we were abused, or making a point of how bad the school was....I know it will be turned and twisted to me saying that.

I have told alums and other friends my feelings of MMS and Ill say them again. I have even told J&C, and M&D, and I think they understand.

Do I agree with everything that happpened at MMS-No.
Did I like everything that happeneed at MMS-No
Am I better, and stronger for having gone to MMS-Yes.
Would I be the person I am today with out having gone through that experinece,.. gone through a time in my life that changed everything  ......Probably not.
Would I know how to deal with life not having learned the lessons at MMS-No
Do I  support the school and their mission to Help girls in need.....YES
Lets remember....our PARENTS sought out MMS....MMS didn't come to our homes, or call our parents and say PLEASE send your daughter to our school, we really really want to deal with her shit.....
did they??? NO.
As I recall, some parents even changed thier daughter legal age to 22 or something just so that when they turned 18 in 5 months they wouldn't leave MMS. Now why blame the school.....for forcing us???  I saw many girls come and go...I even saw parents come and pull their daughters out. So there wasn't much force on the shcools part...really when parents are to commin to pull girls, or the girls are leaving....what can they do??? not much


Everyone makes bold statements about how the school took away Education, Food, blah!! it mkes me sick.....uuhhhhhhhhhh
Dig a little deeper....I to was wondering about that once...how we could be on intervtion alllllllll the time it seemed and still pass school??? I talked to my high about it and asked....how is that...Well you technaclly only need so many hours of school and to have to pass certian parts of the subject....so thats how we could be out in the woods hiking, and sking, and biking.
Now i found that out back in 99 sooooo things may have changed.....don't jump on me for it, but thats how I was able to be a junior in high school having only gone to school at MMS a hand full of times. And as I recall the education was damn hard!!!! and I wasn't much for school at the time so didn't care....and do you guys, ...ya went to high school right??? college?? right? you got your education. right?

"B: you say you "don't have that fear with them anymore." What does that mean? What happened while you were there that caused you FEAR?"
My fear and I think the other girls fear of the staff that they talk about is and was more of being told how full of shit we were, and more being scared of being put on intervetion or personal intevention, rather than actually being scared of the people there.
Let me tell a little bit of experience of MMS. I was 13 never had/did  sex, drugs, criminal history, now an emotional history I HAD..
I was fucking Angry alllllllll the time.....
Kat remembers.
Being put into a school full of girls who had all this was scary...And i was to have it to. I had big sister who told me that EVERYONE no matter what was a drug, sex, and food addict. ALLLLL this is scary enough, than to have 4 loud, somewhat intimidation people around all the time was scary. People are right that MMS was fear based. We were a group, the group had consequences allll the time. there was always someone new, always someone fucking up, always someone being defient and we had to work hard to keep it together.
Group, and being in the spot was scary.   MMS. was about being open, brutelly honest, and thats scary. My first night was a proces group and i rmember trying not to laugh.....but being scared shitless.
I was full of shit allllll the time at mms. I was a scapegoat at mms and honestly i feel the girls were harder and scarier than the staff....even john and colleen. One on one they were fine.
Kat, how many times in the first month i was there was I told how full of shit I was and how angry I was and blah blah blah....as you can recall it was by the girls more than the staff.
I think we were all scared not to get in trouble or have to run backwards laps....more than we were scared of anyhting else.


"You will never convince me that any girl who was made to reveal details of sexual molestation to some MAN who is not a licensed therapist came out of this so-called school better off from such an experience! Never!"
Now that you shared you historys and told your parents...do you even rmember half of what has gone on in your life??? I cant rmember my life really before mms or the things tha happened to me before.....I do put some credit of this to the fact hat I had to tell every little detail, to get out and now to have forgotten.

Now I brace myself for your response.
B

[Anonymous]

"Am I better, and stronger for having gone to MMS"
Does 'for having gone' mean 'b/c of'  like you actually found it helpful and learned something that supercedes that which you disagree with or do you mean simply that 'whatever doesn't kill u makes you stronger' - eg. being molested make me stronger in long run I grow up and... I don't know... in dealing with the horrors of humanity (in processing my pain) I can face molesters all over the world without fear (being facisious, but you catch my drift.  Being stronger b/c you victimized and can battle it, so to speak.

I guess I do feel like I'm that latter msyelf, I wouldn't advocate for MMS (the MMS i expereinced)in any way more that I would being molested.  I find both to have been violations of my person.
 
"Would I be the person I am today with out having gone through that experinece,.. gone through a time in my life that changed everything ......"
OF course not, no one would- you are your narrative.  Without your past you aren't 'you'.  That's why I say no one can be nuetral- if only in the sense that they did not leave MMS 'nuetralized'.  MMS very much was about impact- that's what they do, that's what these programs are all about.  The question remains, the jury is still out- although many PhD's who have studied the topic are already convinced, that these do not have long-lasting effects- their rate of success is quite low.  I suppose you can then see it as a speed bump on the road toward destruction- like anyone on that path, some can change the habits of socialization and time, other may not.

"Would I know how to deal with life not having learned the lessons at MMS-"

For me, MMS made understanding the complexities of life much tougher.  In retrospect, this greatly was b/c of the lack of education I received- I'm strong advocate for education and think that B you underestimate it's importance.  Without education you're powerless in this society, if you're not ruthless.  Forget about the 'therapy', it left me so completely a fragmented self than perhaps may have already been at that time, I can't even imagine giving credit to MMS for my ability to educate my own self on how to deal with the world and make my own way.  If I had not grown from the place MMS squarely placed me- had I not taken apart bit by bit all the fallacies of that school's rhetoric I would have surely died.  It wasn't just MMS rhetoric I had to take apart, it was years of my parents as well, but MMS destroyed what little self I had created at the time- an act of destruction they were not equipped to handle, forget about the ethics of it.  Not sure where I see dignity and respect in that destruction- as NATSAP claims to hold their schools accountable to.



"Do I support the school and their mission to Help girls in need....."  

GOD NO, damn i'd have to be...insane.

"Lets remember....our PARENTS sought out MMS....MMS didn't come to our homes, or call our parents and say PLEASE send your daughter to our school, we really really want to deal with her shit.....
did they???"
What does this matter, exactly?  What if you're parents are equally as abusive as they school? Or have NO IDEA what was really going on?  
Did we not all get the point after the first week of being there that telling your parents anything bad about the school would get you left there much longer and more interventions, forget about that fact that your parents likely wouldn't believe you anyway b/c MMS told us that regularly.  I wanted so badly to speak out, but knew my parent wouldn't believe me- besides I wanted their love and came to believe that maybe MMS was the solution- I couldn't come up with anything else.  I went to MMS willingly- I wanted to get better.  They, to say the least, did not help me get better.    
Fearing consequences and fearing the people who give out the 'consequences'/punishment/behvarior-modifier is a difference you point out--- I think that the two are inextricably tied.  Who has the power in the realtioship here?   It's like saying you fear being murdered but don't fear the murderer?  Kids weren't/aren't morons, they see the source of the 'consequence'  even if they don't entriely understand the rules (like what exactly was required, if not the truth, when he was telling you you're full of shit b/c his 'inuition' tells him so).  John used to love to claim he was intutive- like that truely has any real validity other than perhaps the purpose of further making him this 'awe' inspiring person with great abilities to read kids.  (give me a break- sick!sick! sick!)

"I even saw parents come and pull their daughters out. So there wasn't much force on the shcools part..."

I would've liked to have that parent for a day... force- no, no one held gun- the MMS militia stayed out of sight, j/k  Mis-representation, yes.  coercion, yes.  forceful force, no. but coercion is force, implicit force- again, these are the nuances that need to be considered above taking MMS at it's face- they have their bases well covered, but truth still truth.

"really when parents are to commin to pull girls, or the girls are leaving....what can they do???"

Nothing, but they work hard to set it up so this is unlikely.  Remember, anything bad about the school was manipulative and you were relagated to work crew...hmmm.. I'd say that it serves as a slight deterent, no?  Forget about the impact words have on a kid, when you drop them off with strangers, make them excerisize like never before,
strip them away of any physical indicators of their identity and connections with friends and  tell them they have serious problems, need to be here and deserve everything they have coming to, explaing to them they are liars and manipulators (while this may be true, doesn't make it exclusively true)- day in and day out, I would say eventually even the strongest would submit to the mantra of rhetoric.  And, while it defies logic to think that most of as were in fact addicts (far out of control- rather that kids with probelms) this became almost exclusively true- battery continued until we all began to chirp to the same tune. It became an 'underground' worthy of serious labor cost if we did not chirp the same tune. 'Actually, I do need to be here and have a million addictions and was in fact severaly abused by --?  and had sex b/c i needed love and...'  That's not to say that non of these things were true nor to deny that many of us lied and could be manipulative, but it's the B.S. that this somehow justifies not having access to our parents or that  this makes it ok to shatter a persons identity and, with unskilled, unqualified workers, (pardon for this) fuck with their heads about addictions, about abuse, about who they are...The more I ponder on just what it means to be a person, an individual, the more I feel so strongly about this point.  MMS did not have the right to violate our thoughts and bodies simply b/c our parents said it was ok.  They still have no real idea what went on there.  What an intense mind-fuck it is.
The labor we did for the school,  the thoughts we had to share, the intense atmosphere of fear and oversimplified po-dunk 'therapy'-- which went like this--- verbalize (by coercion) that which causing you pain (abuse, some abuse you caused, pains of addiction) 'process it' and you're in the clear.  And that was really it...the atmosphere of fear, constant threat of labor looming over head, I still don't see how any this is truely conducive to learning and growing and-- guess, the way I see truly dealing with shit is not just by way of  spilling the beans, but in forming close bonds of trust (fear implies danger- I see trust not a part of fear- not in the personal bonding sense) and revealing your shit while reaching the place cognitively to appreaciate what your revealing, it's implications, and being around loved ones where mutual love and reciprocity exist.  I just think John's role as this paternal figure was really creepy in lot of ways and seemed really antiquated- or really contemporary- guess depending on where you live.  Even down to the level of parenting, i don't think you can achieve any real connection with your kid without respect, love and trust.  I think fear as in intimidation and extreme forced labor has no place in parenthood.  I wonder if anyone would disagre with that here?  
Is this issue a fundamental issue about ways in which is acceptable to treat kids?

My thoughts are kids should be resepcted, heard and not shut down and built back up on a whim b/c they are behaving in ways that are found to be inappropraite.  
I know that things would have been quite different if I had an oppurtunity to speak to someone with much more sense about kids and the struggles of kids that John or Mike, without a doubt.  I thing schools like MMS can be helpful, but many of them are a cop out- especially they are a cop out in terms of way they are run.  It's much easier to run a school irresponsibly and as if kids just need a shock to their system and a couple of long days of crying and revealing in great detail their life's problems to become the well adjusted kids that the parents wanr and MMS promise to deliver.   I think it takes  a lot more than that simple equation for most- many are dealing with issues far beyond Johns capability or that John's 'therapuetic model' can/should cover.  (Let us not forget- John- MA in ecology)   Meanwhile, kids who are not just futsing around being foolish- those who have mental health issues are entirely neglected in this process and parents mislead into thinking this may help-- and instead they kill themselves years later, or whatever the case may be.  MMS not equipped to help them, and yet...

That's why I'm for the bill- let's get people on these institutions.  Quick fixes come at a heavy price, and not just from parents pocket either.  I would love it if CPS did suprise visits on these schools- can u imagine, John would be pissed!- and if the visit regularly, lol-  finally these places may be held publicly accountable for what they promote.  At least filter out the kids who have the potential to become 'the disgruntled ones' that can post all over the internet and 'bash' them- like Zoe had mentioned, we are a disgrunted few.  Didn't everyone know, MMS success rate is in the 90% range.  LOL- guess they define success as doing well despite them, in addition to doing well b/c of and let us not forget those who, sadly have not lived to tell their story one way or the other- are they the 10%?

[Anonymous]

Too many words no real meaning..i dont feel like reading or listening.

Being molested made me stronger...what a dumb ass way of saying it...let me got out there and get molested some more. Then I will greatly strong. What a joke. You make no sense.

you see how I write? Only a few words. I don't try to explain myself. Maybe you should try again.

If you are put in a place isolated..anywhere, you are bound to change. MMS is not GOD, but sure pretends to be like it.

[Anonymous]

i agree- it's like saying corporal punishment at MMS, despite the pain it caused us, was a good thing if only for that fact that (like being molested) it turns us into 'survivors' and we are better people for it.

I used to think girls who bought into MMS were just dumb, now I think they are just damaged goods in some funadamental way.  You can't not have AT LEAST, mixed feelings.  The place was/is ABUSIVE.  FEAR and TORMENT is ABUSE.  ISOLATION and being stipped of your identity for YEARS is ABUSE.  Being called manipulative & a liar until you believe only MMS staff b/c you don't know any better is ABUSE.  Being forced to excersize all the time with is ABUSE. Being provided with little little valuable education is ABUSE. Not being allowed to think for yourself is ABUSE.   Doing psuedo-therapy some guy with a master in ECOLOGY is ABUSE.

THis is the problem with these private insitutions, they can do all this far from public scrutiny. They have a air of authority- which, if anyone knows about that study done linked here:

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedi ... experiment
 
you should know people are really easily swayed by people they view as legitimate sources of authority- all you have to do is pretend you know what your talking about- like John Mercer- and you may even believe it.  That doesn't make it so, but sure as hell can convince people otherwise.

regardless, right and wrong, abuse and non-abuse methods exist and it's why we are given languae- to communicate out pain and our pleasure- is it not really that simple.  So the girls that say MMS is bad make a good point.  Even if other girsl felt they needed it, had it coming, deserved it, should have been there, needed to be there and don't think any other method would have helped, there are those of us who feel there are methods that are NOT ABUSIVE that could have worked well better for us, and I highly doubt they wouldn't have been just as helpful for all of you.  

Internalize and forget if you must, but I can't help feel sick to my stomach when I hear from relatives of student who tell me how there kid has regressed into this weird child like state that MMS puts you in.  You go back to this state that is so damn weird and unhealthy it's freaky- yet acceptable.  Sex is weird there- it's weird afterwards b/c you just don't know how to deal.  I don't really know I single person who did not, after they left, 1 have serious sex problems 2. go back or pick up booze/drugs 3. feel freaked out they could barely cope with life 4. depression also seems quite common.

But we wouldn't know what's going on in it's entirety, now do we? b/c MMS doesn't track it's alumni- only maybe the few who are their chosen success stories- but obviously that paints a false picture... it's not in their best interest to keep tabs, that's assured, most want to just forget that time in their lives, they are 'nuetral' well, rather, have mixed feelings.  I suspect a much greater number found the place abusive- but 2 years and a lot of investment in viewing it otherwise seems to win and create a battle from within.

[Anonymous]

Hey there,
Yes you make a good point. I do have mixed feelings of MMS, if you actually took the time to read my post you would know that by now. I  don't however agree with the comparison of MMS and being molested....
I do find it intersting...that everyone seems to pick out John Mercer as the one who was the most demading..and the most "mean" of the 5 founding staff. Were they not all in agreement?? did they not have Monday meetings every week?? Did they not ALL decide to carry out decisions they made in monday meeting.
Yes the school has changed and maybe im just sick cause I stayed literally 3 yrs at MMS. Maybe my life is F****D.
I personally don't, didn't and never will have a messed up sex life...Im sorry but I don't think of MMS when im in the middle of an intimate moment with my boyfriend. After the first time I had, had sex,...maybe, stories I had heard from others at my time at MMS did pop in my mind after but soon and very quickly went away.
The only negitive thing I have from MMS really is me eating...and body image. Its quiet a shame cause it wasn't an issue till after MMS. And exercising is at best hard for me. Even though it was something i loved and I now do exercise simple cause it helps me and my number one issue ANGER....exercising calms me down.
Anyways im babbling,
Booze and drugs never was and never will be an issue. I do drink yes...and... does that mean it has to be a problem? NO...you simply make it a problem. I truly beleive in our own self boundries, morals and so forth. Listen the that guide inside that say yes, no, or to much.
Maybe I look at the world and life to simply, to make things a bigger issues than they are. Or maybe like everyone keeps saying....my life is just screwed since I support the helping of troubled girls.
B

[katfish]

Hey Besty!

what's you AIM username so we can chat?? Mine's katfish1178

Anyway, you know, that's interesting point to make about body image.  Was anyone there when Jessica, an MMS alumnus, who never had any real body issues returned to MMS for a visit completely imaciated.  Truely I had never seen anything so sad in my life nor had I ever seen someone so skinny.  IT was really sad.

As for me, I think I had normal body issues like any woman/ girl goes through in our society where the pressure to be thin is freaken incredible.  Nothing entirely abnormal.  Eating issues yes, but the focus at MMS made them worse I think.  Like now, sometimes I'll eat for emotional reasons, but I find that more so when I'm not being productive and keeping myself busy.

Yea, JOhn was not the only one- but John makes policy there, her holds the reigns.  I hold the rest fully accountable as well- but not really the young staff who I feel didn't really know any better or who are sick (power hungry) in their own right- or like Donna- dang, what was up with the perfect chores- she'd call us back for every little insignificant thing that- tons of work crew cause of that lady.

B, truly I am suprised you were there 3 years, I think my brain would have turned into MMS mush.  It sounds like you not only have mixed feelings but are torn about the staff- on the one hand seeing them for who that have been vs. who they are to you now. I'd be really curious to hear where you stand 5 or 10 years from now when there has been more distance b/w u and the school and you have completely come into your own- your still quite young, aren't you??  I'm 26, by the way.  Old soul.
I fully support helping trouble teens, the problem is finding facilities that engage in ethical practice that have been studied and the results documented.  Some girls may benefit from MMS, who knows- that's the problem.  Additionally, who knows how truly harmful MMS is- they can say what they want, and girls like me may give examples and state otherwise, but without studies it's an absolute unknown in many way.  From what I've read these methods, according to PhD's, are far more harmful than beneficial.  That's not to say that's exclusively so, adn there are so many variables to consider, but likewhat was said above, without regulation and public scrutiny how do we know?  I work with kids, I think kids- especially poor kids- but kids all around get the short end of the stick in our society that protects big business over kids rights- eg. places like MMS.  They really try to sell quick fixes to a systematic problem that's not going to disappear b/c you toss your 'brat' into a daily excersize regimine and have them rehash painful shit to an unqualified or sadistic couneslor. And don't get me started on the kids in foster care that I work with...these kids hardly have a chance to make it in the world.

For kids who have been traumatized, I would say that extreme discipline is absurd- why try and shatter someone's entire identity like MMS does- I am certain that's not the only way to get through to a kids- certainly it lacks creativity and patience- it's very much the easy way out, I think.  Why make them do all the work for your FOR PROFIT school? Why work them and excersize them repeatedly 'till the point of exhaustion?  It's in the name of therapy, but i would love to read what the A.P.A. would have to say about that?  It counters reason.  It's very medievil, i think.  Very backwards...very Montana?  Utah?

People say extreme times call for extreme measures- perhaps, but seems more like a hysterical response than anything else.  Programs like MMS can be helpful I think, but not the way MMS runs them- it's extreme to send your kid away for a wake up call and I think often necessary, but it's an entirely different story when you send your child into the hands of some asshole (John or Mike- occasionally Colleen or Deb) to straighten you out.  Sometimes I wonder if John does this b/c he couldn't find anything else that would bring in the big bucks.  I also wonder how many guys like john are out there doing the same thing- seems to be the calling of the sadistic in a lot of ways- as someone wrote about that new show 'Brat Camp'.  There is defintely a sadistic element to these schools, and I don't think a single person can tell me that John, Mike, Deb or Colleen did not find pleasure in the power they held. It's like a government, you need checks and balnaces- "absolute power corrupts absolutely" - John, a peon in the grand scheme of things, holds a great deal of power over a few little girls and it goes unchecked.  Former staff have called him a tyrant- I know of one that most of you know who said that...I will find great pleasure in his downfall- maybe I'm the sadist now.  Or maybe I just want somevindication.
[ This Message was edited by: katfish on 2005-07-24 19:01 ]

[Anonymous]

hey Kay.....my IM is betsyb4165....orginal right??
Anyway if you go tback and read my post you will see how i have broken down my feelings of the school.
Someone responded to my post and compared it to being molested.....don't ask...I don't get it either.
I do remember Jessica. I knew who you were talking about the min I read your post. I did think damn it didn't work for her.
But i didn't know it wasn't an issue till after.
I don't want to make it seem that im anorexic or bulimic or really "into my food". I now do little things that I never did till after MMS. For example it wasn't thill this past year that I finally focused on slowing down my eating...we had only so much time. You know I think my "issues" are typically normal for society but its the little things that I notice...does every one count calories or think thats a good food or a bad one??
Youre right...I am conflicted. I see and can validate many points people make but Honestly Kat....I grew up at MMS. Some may thik that sad but, what can i say. I went a very very young 13 year old(I had just turned 13 before I was sent to wilderness) and left and more older, emotionally more mature than most 16 year old. I am now 24. Not to young but young.
there are specific times and examples that I would like to talk about in private...but those were times i did question the school and few times i even thought "what would my parents think".
I do remember Donna and I do love that lady and feel sorry for the things that occured to her and her husband. I do remember work crew due to her and even another staff with a white glove.
I don't blame the "secondary" staff for the things they did and many came and left due to their disagreement of the treatment of us girls.
I still remember our daily schedule, and every day meals like it was yesterday.  
I know every generation says that their time was harder than others...and maybe it was cause I had  3yrs of it....but damn my time was hard.
Anyway kat...IM me I should be on tomorrow for awhile and we can chat.
Talk to you soon
B

[zoeee]

i just recently encountered this site and at first i was so eager to read everything everyone had wrote even the people who went there like 10 years ago. i guess i was just so curious because since graduating two years ago this was the first time i could hear others thoughts and feelings about mms from many different perspectives. These forums have been succesful in that was for me... but i have to say that ihave just been dissapointed more and more each time i catch up because all the arguing.

I actually dont even consider it arguing.... more like debating. debating about our personal opinions, feelings, and thoughts on what we experienced at mms... over a period of like... 15 or so years. And it has been so hard for me to not respond to so many things that i thought differently of or was offended by...but now i am glad that i did not cuz i probably would have ended up replying as anonymous.... which seems to be the latest trend.

I have so many things to say about mms that i dare not start because id be typing all night long and probably end up offending someone myself... ha ha. But if anyone wants just to talk not about the effectiveness of the school... please keep me in mind. I know that i have been overlooked or forgotten by girls that i truly thought valued my love and friendship because of what they had heard or been told throught the grapevine that i was 'unhealthy'. yet none of them ever bothered to contact me or acknowledge my attempts to contact them. It still upsets me a lot and that has nothing to do with the school. but now a lot of people have been falsely informed about my struggles and what i have chosen... or not chosen to do with my life. I just don't think its fair, but mostly just sad that i don't mean as much to them as they did to me, or so it appears.

anyways... the reason i decided to write in the first place was because i saw my my name writtien by someon uhh....

"finally these places may be held publicly accountable for what they promote. At least filter out the kids who have the potential to become 'the disgruntled ones' that can post all over the internet and 'bash' them- like Zoe had mentioned, we are a disgrunted few."

are you talking about me or staff zoe... there can't be too many more zoe's huh? i hope i find out.... :grin: it sucks that everyone is anonymous but whatever ...

oh i just wanted to say that some of you guys are hella fuckin mean to one another, now i know im not known to be the sweetest of them all but damn dude.

and also , i hope i don't sound like condescending or like im an mms supporter and/or preacher... because most things i have to say about mms would  get a few of you riled up (im sure) and ultimately defeat the purpose of my saying it to begin with.  I bet it would feel good to do though... ha.

So... yeah im sick of writing but im gonna go to the reunion and anticipate much amusement... and if anyone wants to know what it was like id be glad to fill u in. even anonymous..... he he. it should be fun.....

so to the anonymous's that know me... whats up...
i hope everything is good with everyone that reads this... and.... im always here to listen and talk to.

zoe anderson

[katfish]

hi zoe,

please share!  even if not about effectiveness, i'm sure you have some good points to make.

also, i understand there is a zoe staffer, presumably that's the reference made?

kat

ps- i wonder why you say you would have to post annonymously?  yes, that is the trend and if anyone has an answer as to why i would like be curious to hear it.[ This Message was edited by: katfish on 2005-08-12 14:43 ]