Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Brat Camp

Has anyone been through Redcliff Ascent?

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Joyce Harris:
Sue Scheff is not an educational consultant. She is paid by the program. BIG DIFFERENCE there.

Anonymous:
****While they did things such as refusing to hike, and cooperate with the team, which later led to us having to push our stuff in a heavy pull wagon, they most certainly were never were degraded in the manner in which JMAXWHEEL said. Besides that, Im pretty sure that he never could have remembered what he says he does as well as he does, especially if these events were supposedly common place out there. Its is painfully obvious that someone couldnt just accept the situation that they were in, and decided to blame all of their problems on others, because denying responsibility for your own actions, and blaming it on others is so much easier.***

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Listen up. The degree of abuse is frequently directly related to the psychies of the current staff members. Some more sadistic than others. And for most programs, there is a high turn over.

Also, time has made a few changes. Some programs 'appear' to have pulled the reins in 'slightly' over the years, due to 50 some deaths and undesirable public/state scrutiny. Does that ensure that no abuse is ocurring? Nope, again it depends on the staff and what they can get away with.

People who 'get with the program' appear to endure less blatant abuse. It's been reported that kids are made to leave the area or turn their heads when a staff is about to 'discipline' a participant. Why's that?

Certainly makes sense that they'd want the other kids to watch.. might keep them in line to observe the 'consequence' being delivered. That seems rational.

Instead they are not allowed to observe. Could that be because the staff want NO WITNESSES???

The industry is incapable of teaching kids how to 'take responsibility for their actions and to not blame others' because they haven't mastered it themselves. They kill a kid due to over exertion or neglect and blame the kid for their own death.  :rofl:

You have a lot to learn, if you are so inclined.

envydraggin:
In reference to your statement regarding the fact that students that "Get with the program, receive less abuse,"  CAn you not understand how that may be.  If you sit there, and resist all efforts to change yourself, and ultimatly your life, of course you will be ridiculed in a situation that encourages change.  
The fact that some people are content with being angry at their parents, authority, and the world in general, is something of great concern.  Do you really think that the same people who behave this way will in the end say that they were always treated fairly????  Come on now, you appear to be more knowledgable than to truly believe this.
It is unfortunate when a person abuses a child whether it is physically, or emotionally.  The fact is that there may be places that there sole purpose is to be truly sadistic.  Another fact is that while 50 teens may have died in these impact programs due to neglect, or even possible abuse, many more die than that every single year in the US military (non combat relatred injuries).  So now are you going to start a forum saying that because when a soldier gets "smoked" and the NCO asks others to leave when he does this, that he just doesnt want any witnesses?  Perhaps you should look at the possibility that the, conversation, or actions happening are intended for the person it is directed to and not the entire group.  
You have got to be kidding me to think that the basis of the problems for most of these kids is enhanced by their exposure to these programs.  As I stated earlier, most of these teens are bound to be in a penal institution, and be violent their entire lives.  Most of these people need something like this to make them realize that there actions will not go unpenalized throughout their entire lives.
Dont forget the fact that while I may not have a PhD, nor am I any type of aspiring psychologist, I have been there, and I am talking from personal experience.  Which I might add goes much further than some theory you might have, or somthing you might have read in a book.

 :wstupid:  :lol:

Anonymous:
I went through the program back in 2001, I was there for a total of maybe 5-6 months. I can give a little info of what happened, but any specific questions you have, send them to candytripn@yahoo.com and I'll try and answer you as soon as I can

Anonymous:
Ok, just skimmed throuhg the posts and had to post again, as I forgot to get to this in my rant.

As for the abuse at redcliff, it WAS there. while there was no real physical abuse that I saw (of course, when you are there, you are in a group of about 7-15 with 3 counslers, so who knows about the other groups) there was still abuse. If someone didn't do exaclty as they were told, they could be punished with lack of food, loss of "needed" gear, like tarps to cover with in rain, jackets or the "privilage" of getting warmer clothes from your "stash". I say privilage, because you had a certain ammount of clothes, you didn't want to carry them all, so you could swap out from your bag every 2 weeks. You had to guess what was coming, cuase you could be in shorts hikeing in the snow or  in a sweater in the valley, very hot. There'd be times when you just weren't allowed to get warmer clothes. Other punishments where the "cart", though I only heard about that, the "red suite" (an bright red, and very thick and hot jump suite you'd be forced to wear...no matter what temp. it was. Emotional and psychilogical abuse from yelling and degrading, to not allowing letters and just being down right cruel, even eploiting a childs past to degrade them, to physically restraining in a painfull, though "not harfull" manner.
   And yes, if you "got with the program" it did not happen to you. So if you just went along with everything, you probobly didn't see the abuse. The reason, and I'm guessing here, is to give good testimonials. Bad child goes to camp, comes back with a positive experince and outlook. Or, bad child goes to camp, can't "hack it", is abused and mistreated, comes out, no one belives because this child was just "beyond help".
  Sad isn't it. I could just imagine what CPS hell I'd be in if I took a child out into the desert, fed him rice twice a day, didn't allow him access to a bathroom, or even allow him to bathe, pushed him to the point of physical exhasution every day, then topped it all off by telling him how terrible he is, and how with the power of attorny I now have, I can do what every I want and he couldn't even tell anyone of the abuse.  No wonder places like this get shut down, investigated and sued often

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