Author Topic: Has anyone been through Redcliff Ascent?  (Read 40708 times)

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Offline Joyce Harris

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Has anyone been through Redcliff Ascent?
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2005, 11:53:00 PM »
Sue Scheff is not an educational consultant. She is paid by the program. BIG DIFFERENCE there.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2005, 09:26:00 AM »
****While they did things such as refusing to hike, and cooperate with the team, which later led to us having to push our stuff in a heavy pull wagon, they most certainly were never were degraded in the manner in which JMAXWHEEL said. Besides that, Im pretty sure that he never could have remembered what he says he does as well as he does, especially if these events were supposedly common place out there. Its is painfully obvious that someone couldnt just accept the situation that they were in, and decided to blame all of their problems on others, because denying responsibility for your own actions, and blaming it on others is so much easier.***

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Listen up. The degree of abuse is frequently directly related to the psychies of the current staff members. Some more sadistic than others. And for most programs, there is a high turn over.

Also, time has made a few changes. Some programs 'appear' to have pulled the reins in 'slightly' over the years, due to 50 some deaths and undesirable public/state scrutiny. Does that ensure that no abuse is ocurring? Nope, again it depends on the staff and what they can get away with.

People who 'get with the program' appear to endure less blatant abuse. It's been reported that kids are made to leave the area or turn their heads when a staff is about to 'discipline' a participant. Why's that?

Certainly makes sense that they'd want the other kids to watch.. might keep them in line to observe the 'consequence' being delivered. That seems rational.

Instead they are not allowed to observe. Could that be because the staff want NO WITNESSES???

The industry is incapable of teaching kids how to 'take responsibility for their actions and to not blame others' because they haven't mastered it themselves. They kill a kid due to over exertion or neglect and blame the kid for their own death.  :rofl:

You have a lot to learn, if you are so inclined.
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Offline envydraggin

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« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2005, 04:44:00 PM »
In reference to your statement regarding the fact that students that "Get with the program, receive less abuse,"  CAn you not understand how that may be.  If you sit there, and resist all efforts to change yourself, and ultimatly your life, of course you will be ridiculed in a situation that encourages change.  
The fact that some people are content with being angry at their parents, authority, and the world in general, is something of great concern.  Do you really think that the same people who behave this way will in the end say that they were always treated fairly????  Come on now, you appear to be more knowledgable than to truly believe this.
It is unfortunate when a person abuses a child whether it is physically, or emotionally.  The fact is that there may be places that there sole purpose is to be truly sadistic.  Another fact is that while 50 teens may have died in these impact programs due to neglect, or even possible abuse, many more die than that every single year in the US military (non combat relatred injuries).  So now are you going to start a forum saying that because when a soldier gets "smoked" and the NCO asks others to leave when he does this, that he just doesnt want any witnesses?  Perhaps you should look at the possibility that the, conversation, or actions happening are intended for the person it is directed to and not the entire group.  
You have got to be kidding me to think that the basis of the problems for most of these kids is enhanced by their exposure to these programs.  As I stated earlier, most of these teens are bound to be in a penal institution, and be violent their entire lives.  Most of these people need something like this to make them realize that there actions will not go unpenalized throughout their entire lives.
Dont forget the fact that while I may not have a PhD, nor am I any type of aspiring psychologist, I have been there, and I am talking from personal experience.  Which I might add goes much further than some theory you might have, or somthing you might have read in a book.

 :wstupid:  :lol:
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he Only Thing Constant In Life Is Change.

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2005, 02:26:00 PM »
I went through the program back in 2001, I was there for a total of maybe 5-6 months. I can give a little info of what happened, but any specific questions you have, send them to [email protected] and I'll try and answer you as soon as I can
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2005, 02:40:00 PM »
Ok, just skimmed throuhg the posts and had to post again, as I forgot to get to this in my rant.

As for the abuse at redcliff, it WAS there. while there was no real physical abuse that I saw (of course, when you are there, you are in a group of about 7-15 with 3 counslers, so who knows about the other groups) there was still abuse. If someone didn't do exaclty as they were told, they could be punished with lack of food, loss of "needed" gear, like tarps to cover with in rain, jackets or the "privilage" of getting warmer clothes from your "stash". I say privilage, because you had a certain ammount of clothes, you didn't want to carry them all, so you could swap out from your bag every 2 weeks. You had to guess what was coming, cuase you could be in shorts hikeing in the snow or  in a sweater in the valley, very hot. There'd be times when you just weren't allowed to get warmer clothes. Other punishments where the "cart", though I only heard about that, the "red suite" (an bright red, and very thick and hot jump suite you'd be forced to wear...no matter what temp. it was. Emotional and psychilogical abuse from yelling and degrading, to not allowing letters and just being down right cruel, even eploiting a childs past to degrade them, to physically restraining in a painfull, though "not harfull" manner.
   And yes, if you "got with the program" it did not happen to you. So if you just went along with everything, you probobly didn't see the abuse. The reason, and I'm guessing here, is to give good testimonials. Bad child goes to camp, comes back with a positive experince and outlook. Or, bad child goes to camp, can't "hack it", is abused and mistreated, comes out, no one belives because this child was just "beyond help".
  Sad isn't it. I could just imagine what CPS hell I'd be in if I took a child out into the desert, fed him rice twice a day, didn't allow him access to a bathroom, or even allow him to bathe, pushed him to the point of physical exhasution every day, then topped it all off by telling him how terrible he is, and how with the power of attorny I now have, I can do what every I want and he couldn't even tell anyone of the abuse.  No wonder places like this get shut down, investigated and sued often
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Offline AtomicAnt

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« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2005, 08:14:00 PM »
Quote
The fact that some people are content with being angry at their parents, authority, and the world in general, is something of great concern.


Yes indeed. The great concern is that they are often justified in being angry at their parents and the authority figures in their lives. That is probably the root cause of their behavior difficulties in the first place. No one disputes that, not even the programs. So why blame and punish the teen? Kids can be helped without the tough part of tough love. Positive support works much quicker, much cheaper, and much better.

I say that not from a book, but from personal experience as both a son and a father.
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Offline AtomicAnt

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« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2005, 08:56:00 PM »
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On 2005-10-07 13:44:00, envydraggin wrote:

"In reference to your statement regarding the fact that students that "Get with the program, receive less abuse,"  CAn you not understand how that may be.  If you sit there, and resist all efforts to change yourself, and ultimatly your life, of course you will be ridiculed in a situation that encourages change.  

The fact that some people are content with being angry at their parents, authority, and the world in general, is something of great concern.  Do you really think that the same people who behave this way will in the end say that they were always treated fairly????  Come on now, you appear to be more knowledgable than to truly believe this.

It is unfortunate when a person abuses a child whether it is physically, or emotionally.  The fact is that there may be places that there sole purpose is to be truly sadistic.  Another fact is that while 50 teens may have died in these impact programs due to neglect, or even possible abuse, many more die than that every single year in the US military (non combat relatred injuries).  So now are you going to start a forum saying that because when a soldier gets "smoked" and the NCO asks others to leave when he does this, that he just doesnt want any witnesses?  Perhaps you should look at the possibility that the, conversation, or actions happening are intended for the person it is directed to and not the entire group.  

You have got to be kidding me to think that the basis of the problems for most of these kids is enhanced by their exposure to these programs.  As I stated earlier, most of these teens are bound to be in a penal institution, and be violent their entire lives.  Most of these people need something like this to make them realize that there actions will not go unpenalized throughout their entire lives.

Dont forget the fact that while I may not have a PhD, nor am I any type of aspiring psychologist, I have been there, and I am talking from personal experience.  Which I might add goes much further than some theory you might have, or somthing you might have read in a book.



 :wstupid:  :lol:
"


As a manager at a large corporation I was trained in taking employees aside and reprimanding them in private. This is done so as to not embarass or humiliate the employee in front of his or her peers.

While I can very well accept this same arguement for clients in a program, there is another side.

If any abuse occurs in the corporate setting, the employee can file a complaint with human resources, my boss, or even the police. They can print, publish, sue, and inform all their co-workers about what may have happened. They can also leave the office and even quit the job.

The clients of these programs have no such safeguards. They are not permitted any of these protective actions. In many cases, they cannot tell their own parents, or if they can, the program can simply perform well practiced damage control by convincing the parents that the client is lying. Because the client is likely to have a checkered past, their credibility might be reduced. This reduced credibility provides another reason that more protection is needed, not less, because it makes the client even more vulnerable to abuse.

One must also consider the age and history of the client. They might not have an understanding of what constitutes abuse and may have been past victims of abuse.

If these programs are really designed to protect the clients' rights and well being, they would have safeguards in place to avoid potential abuse and protect themselves from lawsuits. Anything less is simply unprofessional.

It is clear to me and others who post here, that these programs prefer to operate in the shadows because they are fully aware that their techniques would be condemned by the public at large, and probably law enforcement, if they operated in a more tranparent manner.
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Offline AtomicAnt

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« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2005, 09:03:00 PM »
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On 2005-11-21 11:40:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Ok, just skimmed throuhg the posts and had to post again, as I forgot to get to this in my rant.



As for the abuse at redcliff, it WAS there. while there was no real physical abuse that I saw (of course, when you are there, you are in a group of about 7-15 with 3 counslers, so who knows about the other groups) there was still abuse. If someone didn't do exaclty as they were told, they could be punished with lack of food, loss of "needed" gear, like tarps to cover with in rain, jackets or the "privilage" of getting warmer clothes from your "stash". I say privilage, because you had a certain ammount of clothes, you didn't want to carry them all, so you could swap out from your bag every 2 weeks. You had to guess what was coming, cuase you could be in shorts hikeing in the snow or  in a sweater in the valley, very hot. There'd be times when you just weren't allowed to get warmer clothes. Other punishments where the "cart", though I only heard about that, the "red suite" (an bright red, and very thick and hot jump suite you'd be forced to wear...no matter what temp. it was. Emotional and psychilogical abuse from yelling and degrading, to not allowing letters and just being down right cruel, even eploiting a childs past to degrade them, to physically restraining in a painfull, though "not harfull" manner.

   And yes, if you "got with the program" it did not happen to you. So if you just went along with everything, you probobly didn't see the abuse. The reason, and I'm guessing here, is to give good testimonials. Bad child goes to camp, comes back with a positive experince and outlook. Or, bad child goes to camp, can't "hack it", is abused and mistreated, comes out, no one belives because this child was just "beyond help".

  Sad isn't it. I could just imagine what CPS hell I'd be in if I took a child out into the desert, fed him rice twice a day, didn't allow him access to a bathroom, or even allow him to bathe, pushed him to the point of physical exhasution every day, then topped it all off by telling him how terrible he is, and how with the power of attorny I now have, I can do what every I want and he couldn't even tell anyone of the abuse.  No wonder places like this get shut down, investigated and sued often"


You say "...no real physical abuse..." Then you describe inadequate clothing, witholding of food, and painful physical restraint. I hope you understand that these are forms of physical abuse. You even point out that these acts are illegal when committed by someone outside the context of a program. That means they are likely illegal inside a program as well.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2005, 11:44:00 PM »
Does this say anything about the efficacy rates of these places??   I understand they interview families within weeks to a few months afther they've been out and are still drinking the Kool Aid.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2005, 11:48:00 PM »
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On 2005-07-20 03:47:00, Anonymous
Can I just check those dates?  You were at RedCliff Ascent for 75 days and left in January 2005?  So you went there at the end of 2004. The first Brat Camp at RedCliff Ascent was filmed in late 2003.  Have you got your dates wrong or are they filming ANOTHER Brat Camp there?"



GAWWWWWWWWWWWD.  Is there really a fuckign DIFFERENCE??????????????????
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2005, 01:01:00 AM »
Yes. check your fucking sources, before you try to prove someone wrong. They had another "brat camp" show, with Dan, and Tom, etc.  dont try an show me up.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2006, 12:05:00 PM »
Ive also been through Redcliff, graduated in december '03 was there 90 days. They were filming some brits or whatever and i remember that one kid from brooklyn that was in our group (aah shit it wasnt bullfrogs it was lions something like) left and joined the filmed group. It did help me considerably, i was a whinely little bitch and needed a good slap of reality. It helped me with depression but say 4 months afterwards i feel into a more anti-social 'conduct disorder' ruitine, and 6 months after i was arrested and am still on probation for my crimes.

I respect RCA more than juvies/psych hospitals/residentials blah blah and any other institution ive been to since they didnt just try to shove fucking pills down my throat and attempt to diagnose me with ODD or this and that. It was an emotional experience to say the least.

I was taken from Horsham Clinic (behavioral health hospital in PA) and escorted by a pig and my mother to the airport and flew into vegas. From there i meet the intake people, a chick and a man both huge and tall, mouthed off to them a bit and was driven to Utah. I got to base round 1:30 Am and then preceded with intake. After i was stripped and given those 'battle tested' fatigues, i was blindfolded and was off to the wilderness. 3 hours latter i arived at my camp Bullfrogs and became acutely aware how damn heavy those packs are and that i was seriously in the middle of nowhere--contrary to what i was told and assumed, that it was some haughty taughty cliche "lets go camping and learn about nature!" bullshit.

After pissing and moaning about hiking in my first letter i wrote home, i got depressed. Even to my dismay i couldnt make fire. I continued this little ruitine of mine for nearly two months till i got my first fire, rushed through all my phases, got named "White Falcon" and graduated. We had to take a shower, but at grad camp they just built it and it had no heat--i remember it was colder than just using a pot and soap, but i really didnt care. Cold meant shit to me then, after 'gut-bomb', 3 peak, fires, my hair freezing (always wash your body first then your hair kiddies), blisters etc. i was just happy i was going home. They make you run like a mile down to your parents, and that first month home is really the most thankful. I remember i had trouble trying to explain my experience to kids in my school and they all backed away from me cause i was 'bad'. So eventually i gave in started to chill with punk/skin crews more and eventually got myself into some run-ins with the law.

I meet some interesting people that id seriously like to meet again Mike "Red Badger" or that hobo chick Ericka.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2006, 05:28:00 PM »
^^^ Oh yea and i read the discussion. ^^^

Abuse was there if you cared to notice (staff dismissing the group to another area to piss off on some kid, degrading remarks, instigating etc) but most of the time 'consequences' involved carrying rocks if you swear, having a looooong day of hiking, camp drills/pack drills, no peanut butter, cheese or meat rations (replaced by the nastiest greenish brown shit ever) and the 'cart'. My group got the cart just "to see if we can handle it". All in all though it did just depend on the staff and thier mood.

Getting sick is just horrible. They dont give you conventional medicine but make you drink sage tea which id imagine tastes exactly like shit laced with pesticide i remember i could hardly get it down and vomited but they insisted to drink up because of how sick i was (and for two weekafter i was discharged i still was taking medicine for it). It was the worse ive ever been i was freezing cold couldnt eat coughing up green phlegm, couldnt walk 100 yards without huffing and puffing and all i would do was stare off drooling by the campfire haha i spilt my honey and when someone finally noticed it was all gone and i didnt even care which to an RCA kid is fucking extreme. When we hiked (only 6 miles or so) i barely made it and got about a dozen or so faint spells where honestly i had no clue what the hell was going on. Fortunatly i graduated that weekend right befor the 15 miler we were going to pull off (dont know how i wouldve fared with being sick and all)

RCA doesnt change shit let alone profoundly, it just grows you some hair on your chest and leaves your suburbanite mommies and daddies 30 grand poorer (and for a poor family like mine, well lets just say your going to be eating lots of canned patatoes and ramen)

RCA dont work. Nuff said.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2006, 12:08:00 PM »
all of you idiots are just a bunch of pusseys who couldnt handle rca. i graded in 45 days and all you have to do is not be a pussy
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2006, 12:10:00 PM »
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On 2006-03-08 09:08:00, Anonymous wrote:

"all of you idiots are just a bunch of pusseys who couldnt handle rca. i graded in 45 days and all you have to do is not be a pussy"


You have that almost exactly backwards.  It takes much more courage to fight against an injust system than it does to succumb and conform.

The pussies are the ones who gave into conformity.
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