Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Brat Camp
Redcliffer
Anonymous:
--- Quote ---On 2005-10-04 16:33:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Why is it that you feel like the kids bear no responsibility for being there in the first place?
My son had the opportunity to do outpatient rehab, therapy as well as NA -- problem is he was never sober long enough to get any benefit.
This is the first time he has been sober in two years. I know WC does not cure anything -- it is a wake up call for the kid that there are consequences for their actions and that there are places and people who will not put up with their behavior.
I am not a "rogram parent" I don't "drink the kool-aid" -- I am a parent who has tried everything and had a child who knew that in the State of California - nothing was going to happen to him.
Like when he was mad at his sister so he bashed in the side of her new car -- police did nothing.
Like when he trew a phone across a classroom and injured a teacher sending her to the emergency room - police did nothing.
Like when we caught him in our home smoking weed - police did nothing.
Like when he trashed his room smashing everything and punching holes in the walls -- police did nothing...
Like when he started stealing from the neighbors and dealing to get his drugs -- Police did nothing
But ya know when he took a swing at the Redcliff staff member he had a take down and funny thing is he has not tried that again... hummm ... wonder why?
Walk a mile in my shoes and then you can judge me --
Again I ask -- what would you do?
"
--- End quote ---
Sounds like it is YOU who is not taking responsibility. BE A PARENT! You expect everyone else to take control and punish your son for you. The police didn't do it, so you had to pay someone else to do it. Pathetic!
Anonymous:
--- Quote ---On 2005-10-04 15:07:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I appreciated the 60 minute clip that was posted. I viewed the clip prior to sending my son to Red Cliff and it really helped me to not be shocked when he had to be restrained within 20 minutes of being there because he didn't want to do the strip search...
--- End quote ---
How would you feel about being strip searched? Is this really necessary, or is it just a good way to humiliate and intimidate a teenager?
--- Quote ---We had given him every therapy possible. Went to parenting class ourselves and lived through years of terror and torment.
--- End quote ---
It was only after I tossed the parenting books and told the therapists what idiots they were, that I was able to turn my own kid around. I know my kid better than they do. In my case, positive reinforcement worked better than any form of punishment.
--- Quote ---So what if he is a little uncomfortable. Actually his letters indicate that he likes it there and is learning a lot of great things.
--- End quote ---
Bow drilling looks great on a resume. What else is he learning? I suspect he is learning a great deal about the nature of power and coercion.
--- Quote ---What do kids expect will happen to them if they defy their parents?
Nothing -- that is the problem
--- End quote ---
That was YOUR problem. When my kid breaks a rule, things happen. Not 'nothing.' Define defiance. I respect my kid's right to disagree. The rules are still enforced.
Anonymous:
In one sense you are all right....
I as a parent rescued my son, made excuses for my son, spent hours with him in home school when he would get suspended. Spent hours talking to him about what was going on in his life. Took him to countless Dr's... What I thought was helping him may have been destroying him.
I am not a lazy parent...If anything I am over involved.
But how exactly do you control a 6'1" 190 LB boy who is high and is telling you to fuck off?? How do you take away something from a kid who is almost 17 and has nothing left to take away? No car, No phone, No computer, No video games, etc...
I really don't think spanking someone who is almost as big as his father (yes he has one and we have been married for over 25 years) is practical.
This is a kid who was expelled from school (hurting the teacher)they didn't arrest him because he didn't mean to do it ... the teacher got in the way of the phone (that is Carlifornia for you).
I know he didn't get to that place overnight and believe me neither did I.
I just think you should not lump all of the programs into the same lot as the infamous ones that anyone with half a brain and the sligest effort can see are abusive...
Redcliff restrained him once because he swung at the intake coordinator who caught his punch mid air and took him down untill he stopped shouting at them and cursing at them it was all
I did not send him to a WWASP program and I googled and read every place I could find including your site to find negative things about RedCliff. In fact the only reason I even posted here is because I think your site has a great value --
I ruled out several programs especially anything that had anything to do with WWASP or Teen Help or any other organization the refers parents mostly because of this and other sites.
I checked Redcliff them out with the state licening commission... contrary to what you may think they will give negative as well as positive information. I had one person tell me not to send him to a particular program in Utah..
As far as the comment "how would I like it if..."
I would not have put myself in that position in the first place. It was not like it was a surprise to him.
What I am in all sincerity asking you is what could your parents have done differently to help you? Thus the question... What was I supposed to do...
What finally did help you? If you want to be helpful and not hateful then reply -- if not then I won't post again - rather chalk this up to a bunch of angry people who enjoy confrontation without offering any real suggestions to those who do seek you out and give you feedback.
I would be interested in anyone who has had personal experience with RedCliff specifically --
Thanks!
Jackie
AtomicAnt:
--- Quote ---On 2005-10-05 11:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
"In one sense you are all right....
I as a parent rescued my son, made excuses for my son, spent hours with him in home school when he would get suspended. Spent hours talking to him about what was going on in his life. Took him to countless Dr's... What I thought was helping him may have been destroying him.
I am not a lazy parent...If anything I am over involved.
But how exactly do you control a 6'1" 190 LB boy who is high and is telling you to fuck off?? How do you take away something from a kid who is almost 17 and has nothing left to take away? No car, No phone, No computer, No video games, etc...
I really don't think spanking someone who is almost as big as his father (yes he has one and we have been married for over 25 years) is practical.
This is a kid who was expelled from school (hurting the teacher)they didn't arrest him because he didn't mean to do it ... the teacher got in the way of the phone (that is California for you).
I know he didn't get to that place overnight and believe me neither did I.
I just think you should not lump all of the programs into the same lot as the infamous ones that anyone with half a brain and the sligest effort can see are abusive...
Redcliff restrained him once because he swung at the intake coordinator who caught his punch mid air and took him down until he stopped shouting at them and cursing at them it was all
I did not send him to a WWASP program and I googled and read every place I could find including your site to find negative things about RedCliff. In fact the only reason I even posted here is because I think your site has a great value --
I ruled out several programs especially anything that had anything to do with WWASP or Teen Help or any other organization the refers parents mostly because of this and other sites.
I checked Redcliff them out with the state licening commission... contrary to what you may think they will give negative as well as positive information. I had one person tell me not to send him to a particular program in Utah..
As far as the comment "how would I like it if..."
I would not have put myself in that position in the first place. It was not like it was a surprise to him.
What I am in all sincerity asking you is what could your parents have done differently to help you? Thus the question... What was I supposed to do...
What finally did help you? If you want to be helpful and not hateful then reply -- if not then I won't post again - rather chalk this up to a bunch of angry people who enjoy confrontation without offering any real suggestions to those who do seek you out and give you feedback.
I would be interested in anyone who has had personal experience with RedCliff specifically --
Thanks!
Jackie
"
--- End quote ---
I was thinking. I do that sometimes. It was the tone of your initial post that put me off. It was almost as if you delighted in seeing your son restrained and strip searched. You said, "So what if he is a little uncomfortable" That it makes it sound as if you are enjoying his having to go through a punitive experience. The post was inflammatory. It is clear you feel a great deal of anger towards him.
I am sorry that you and your son are having such severe difficulties. I would urge caution when sending a drug user into a wilderness program. They are not a drug rehabilitation program. If your son is addicted to heroin or something like it, the withdrawal can be fatal if not properly handled.
I don't know what I would do if I were in your shoes. I just don't like the methods these programs use. I don't believe for a minute that the tough part of tough love has any benefit at all. I was a troubled teen. My sister was too. I have a great deal of empathy for the kids in these positions. No one chooses to be the bad guy. I know that feeling one has when is being forced to do something that he feels if completely unfair. They would have had to restrain me, too. It isn't a nice feeling. It also isn't helpful, it only builds a sense of anger and powerlessness.
I also object to the idea of forced behavior modification (mind control, brainwashing). To me, forcing a mind set onto someone is always just wrong; regardless of context. At some point I have to say it is his decision to be this way regardless of the outcome and no amount of bad behavior warrants the kind of intervention these programs entail. Not even to (theoretically) save the kid's life. A parent can only do so much. The rest is up to the teenager. There are lines even a parent cannot cross.
I don't have a teen, yet. My boy is only eight. We have already had our troubles with him. He began being violent at age two and three. His behavior became extreme when we divorced. He was expelled from a dozen day care situations. We took parenting classes, read the books and involved therapists. Two CSTs were performed. They all gave us programs that called for discipline, structure, and consistency. They wanted us to send him to a special school (we did not). Everything we did made our boy worse. At some point, something inside me clicked. My son was exactly like I was. Then I had my chance. My ex moved into another state temporarily and our son stayed with me full time. I took to flooding him with attention; hugs, praise, playing with him, talking to him. I did away with ALL punishment. I endured his tantrums and his anger and his violence. Of course, at 6 years old, he could hit and kick me and not really do damage. It worked. His rage and anger just seemed to fade away and we became very close to each other. He became very approval seeking. It only took a few weeks before the school principal phoned and told me what a great job I was doing and how he seemed like a completely different kid. Discipline was there. I gave him jobs. By the time his Mom came back, he was in charge of breakfast, the trash, and clearing the evening dishes and he took these responsibilities seriously. He was proud to point out to me how well he did them. I never had to make him or force him to do anything. He went through all of second grade with As and Bs and no reports of violence. I hope and pray I do as well when he is a teenager.
The moral of the story for me is that if you treat someone with love and respect, they will return love and respect.
Anonymous:
--- Quote ---On 2005-10-04 16:33:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Why is it that you feel like the kids bear no responsibility for being there in the first place?
My son had the opportunity to do outpatient rehab, therapy as well as NA -- problem is he was never sober long enough to get any benefit.
This is the first time he has been sober in two years. I know WC does not cure anything -- it is a wake up call for the kid that there are consequences for their actions and that there are places and people who will not put up with their behavior.
I am not a "rogram parent" I don't "drink the kool-aid" -- I am a parent who has tried everything and had a child who knew that in the State of California - nothing was going to happen to him.
Like when he was mad at his sister so he bashed in the side of her new car -- police did nothing.
Like when he trew a phone across a classroom and injured a teacher sending her to the emergency room - police did nothing.
Like when we caught him in our home smoking weed - police did nothing.
Like when he trashed his room smashing everything and punching holes in the walls -- police did nothing...
Like when he started stealing from the neighbors and dealing to get his drugs -- Police did nothing
But ya know when he took a swing at the Redcliff staff member he had a take down and funny thing is he has not tried that again... hummm ... wonder why?
Walk a mile in my shoes and then you can judge me --
Again I ask -- what would you do?
"
--- End quote ---
Man, where do you trolls come up with these scripts? Try some originality, please, we have heard this lames-ass-excuse so many times I have lost count.
:smokin:
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