Author Topic: Voluntary treatment, so hard to understand!  (Read 1899 times)

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Offline Paul

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Voluntary treatment, so hard to understand!
« on: June 15, 2005, 02:30:00 AM »
Does anyone else at Fornit's need assistance
in understanding what the word "voluntary"
means when being offered medical help?

Deborah interprets voluntary as forced
drugging, in her words. No amount of voluntary
explanations and realities will sway her
interpretation that voluntary means voluntary.

Is this a major problem here at Fornit's that
somehow voluntary equates to forced?
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Offline Carmel

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Voluntary treatment, so hard to understand!
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2005, 11:45:00 PM »
hmmm...well the way I see it is...voluntary treatment is an oxymoron.  Should you happen to find yourself "volunteering"...well then thats 99% of the battle.

No one ever changes because they are forced/asked/beaten/drugged to.  So if someone is voluntary ready to change....why do they need "treatment"?  

You are only responsible for yourself........ultimately, in a very strict sense of the word.
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Offline Paul

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Voluntary treatment, so hard to understand!
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2005, 03:06:00 PM »
In California the only way to have treatment
involuntary carried out is if the person
is a danger to themselves, danger to others
or gravely disabled.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
or those who don\'t understand my position, on all subjects:

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* Make sure you have the freedom of choice.

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Offline Paul

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Voluntary treatment, so hard to understand!
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2005, 11:06:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-06-15 20:45:00, Carmel wrote:

"hmmm...well the way I see it is...voluntary treatment is an oxymoron.  Should you happen to find yourself "volunteering"...well then thats 99% of the battle.



No one ever changes because they are forced/asked/beaten/drugged to.  So if someone is voluntary ready to change....why do they need "treatment"?  



You are only responsible for yourself........ultimately, in a very strict sense of the word.
"


You are absolutely right, unless one becomes
a danger to themselves, others or are gravely
disbled.

Then they are not free ... that is what the
public voted in as the law.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
or those who don\'t understand my position, on all subjects:

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Offline Deborah

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Voluntary treatment, so hard to understand!
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2005, 07:44:00 AM »
Voluntary:
implies freedom and spontaneity of choice or action without external compulsion

done by design or Intention- stresses an awareness of an end to be achieved

Synanomous with Deliberate- implies full consciousness of the nature of one's act AND its consequences
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Offline Paul

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Voluntary treatment, so hard to understand!
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2005, 09:52:00 AM »
If one is alone on an island then there
would be no external compulsion, except
survival.

In a society with people, all societies
have rules, in the form of laws.

There is your external compulsion, obeying
the laws, just like you and I!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
or those who don\'t understand my position, on all subjects:

* Understand the law and your rights.

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Offline Paul

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Voluntary treatment, so hard to understand!
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2005, 08:23:00 PM »
I read posts on Fornits about forced medication for people with mental illness.

Please post examples of forced treatment where there was no due process.

---

This is different that disagree with the current laws, or pushing Scientology dogma covertly.

If you just don't agree with medications, then that is not an example of forced.

If you don't know what forced means simply ask, no rants please.

Now a real example of someone who just got forced with no protection of the laws, thank you.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
or those who don\'t understand my position, on all subjects:

* Understand the law and your rights.

* Make sure you have the freedom of choice.

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Offline Paul

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Voluntary treatment, so hard to understand!
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2005, 08:27:00 PM »
This is a voluntary program.

Please post an example of a parent saying no to the TeenScreen Assessment and the school forcing the child to take the test.

---

Again, if you do not agree with TeenScreen in concept, or you are covertly pushing Scientology
dogma you posts should not be here.

This is for an example of when the current laws
of voluntary testing have been broken, and the parents said no, in writing, and the school did
the assessment in a forced setting.

Please include resources, no rants, just facts.

Thank you.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
or those who don\'t understand my position, on all subjects:

* Understand the law and your rights.

* Make sure you have the freedom of choice.

* Seek and receive unbiased information and
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Offline Anonymous

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Voluntary treatment, so hard to understand!
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2005, 12:15:00 PM »
From what I've read of Deborah's posts, they are mostly oriented around children. By default the children will receive whatever the parents deem necessary, so in this sense, they don't really have a choice. I read an article today, in Maine they are passing legislation making it illegal not to take your medication if you are mentally ill. Don't you see where this trend is heading? I don't like it much either.
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Offline Paul

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Voluntary treatment, so hard to understand!
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2005, 12:52:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-06-21 09:15:00, Anonymous wrote:

I read an article today, in Maine they are passing legislation making it illegal not to take your medication if you are mentally ill. Don't you see where this trend is heading? I don't like it much either."


Anon,

I thought this thread was going to head in the direction to show that there is always the right
to say no to treatment, and there is due process,
and paid representation if one chooses to say no.

Could you please post the Maine legislation article. I hope it is not true, or rather, I
hope there is some logical explanation to it?

Thanks,

Paul
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
or those who don\'t understand my position, on all subjects:

* Understand the law and your rights.

* Make sure you have the freedom of choice.

* Seek and receive unbiased information and
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Offline Anonymous

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Voluntary treatment, so hard to understand!
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2005, 01:01:00 PM »
Bill would force mentally ill to take their meds
Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - Bangor Daily News

AUGUSTA - The mental health community is divided over a proposed new law that would require some people with mental illness to take prescribed psychiatric medications or face involuntary admission to a state hospital.

The initiative, known as "community commitment," had all-but-unanimous bipartisan support in both the House and Senate during the recently adjourned legislative session, but has been held over for reconsideration because it would draw about $600,000 over the next two years from the state's bare-bones General Fund.

Lawmakers on the budget committee may approve the fiscal note when they reconvene in special session at the end of this month. If not, the bill will be reintroduced in the regular fall session.

The Maine chapter of the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill, a leading organization that advocates for patients' rights, has refused to take a position on the community commitment bill for fear of splintering its membership. A NAMI spokeswoman said last week that while some providers and family members see the measure as a way to keep people healthy and productive, others find it coercive and an infringement of personal rights.

In its final amended form, L.D. 151, An Act to Improve the Delivery of Maine's Mental Health Services, would set up a one-year, Augusta-based pilot project to treat a maximum of 50 people. It would trigger a court review of patients with multiple psychiatric hospitalizations and repeated outpatient noncompliance with their medication orders. When those patients are discharged from Riverview Psychiatric Center in Augusta - one of Maine's two public psychiatric hospitals - they could be ordered by a court to participate in an "assertive community treatment" process, or ACT.

ACT provides intensive outpatient support and monitoring with a team of mental health professionals. While there are already a number of ACT teams working with recently discharged patients in Maine communities, they don't have the authority to require medication compliance and often simply stop seeing patients who drop off their radar or become noncompliant, hostile or uncontrolled.

The pending law would create a new ACT team dedicated to serving community commitment clients. If team members determined that a client has stopped taking medications as ordered and is showing even mild symptoms, the team would be empowered to have the client readmitted to the hospital against his will. Once restabilized, the client could once again be discharged to community commitment and the ACT program. The law would limit the initial commitment period to four months and subsequent discharges to more than one year.

The measure also would fund temporary housing for those assigned to the program.

The bill's sponsor, Sen. John Nutting, D-Leeds, said Monday that family members, frantic to protect the well-being of their loved ones, have been a primary driver of the proposal. Other pressures include the societal costs of having people with poorly controlled mental illness living in Maine communities, as well as the cost of repeated hospitalization or incarceration of those who become dangerous. The measure has the support of a broad coalition of health care groups and law enforcement officials.

According to Nutting, 42 other states have community commitment provisions. In New York, he said, the average length of stay in psychiatric hospitals has decreased from 50 days to 15 days, and there has been a 78 percent decrease in the number of inmates in the state's prisons and jails who have a diagnosed mental illness.

In New Hampshire, Nutting said, the average length of time a psychiatric patient stays compliant with medications after discharge has risen from 31/2 months to 11 months since the state enacted an outpatient commitment process.

Nutting's bill has engendered strong opposition from Maine's Disability Rights Center. Public Policy Director Helen Bailey said last week that people with mental illness have the same rights as those with other illnesses.

There are good reasons why people may choose not to take their medications, she said, and the right to do so should be protected. Some drugs cause intolerable side effects, and some should not be taken, for example, if a woman is pregnant. Some people have no transportation or other complicating factors and are unable to get their medications, she added.

Accepting that ACT teams should sometimes be more aggressive in maintaining therapeutic relationships with difficult clients, Bailey said it's appropriate to beef up their accountability without "putting the onus on the people with mental illness."

The debate over LD 151 has focused on a few "anecdotal situations," Bailey said, but the real problem is the overall quality of care being provided in the community mental health system.

At the Bangor Area Homeless Shelter, Executive Director Dennis Marble said he supports the idea of community commitment, while acknowledging that its coercive aspect is a problem. Many of his clients regularly cycle through the mental health system, Marble noted - they get hospitalized to get their medications straightened out, are discharged for follow-up services in the community, function well for a time and then gradually get worse. When they reach the point where they are a danger to themselves or others, they get recommitted to the hospital, or are imprisoned.

With each cycle, Marble said, people with mental illness take longer to restabilize. They also suffer "cumulative consequences to their overall health," he said, including worsening chronic conditions such as heart disease or diabetes, loss of nutritional health and injuries due to loss of judgment.

Marble said he "gets comfortable" with the idea of community commitment when he focuses on the notion of community - both as a source of caring intervention and as a system with limited financial resources. Unmanaged mental illness costs the state a lot of money, he noted - dollars that could be better spent providing health care to a broad range of Mainers.

http://www.bangornews.com/news/templates/?a=115371
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Offline Deborah

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Voluntary treatment, so hard to understand!
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2005, 08:48:00 PM »
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700