Author Topic: Positive MMS emperience  (Read 8978 times)

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Offline KatieH

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Positive MMS emperience
« on: June 01, 2005, 11:07:00 AM »
To all the girls
    I just found this site and can truly say I was shocked and surprised by the negative experience some of you girls have had, I wish I knew who some of you were, maybe you can let me know who you are.  I had a wonderful time at MMS, and I can honestly say some of the happiest memories of my life are from my time at MMS.  I am now going to respond to some of the negative things posted here, please know that everything I say is my opinion derived from my personal experience and I have no wish to discredit anyone elses experience, be it good or bad.
   I never felt John or Mike to be abusive, beligerent, arrogent I had to carry rocks around for a while, I found it helpfull in clarifying my personal issues.  John and Mike were sometimes forcefull, but we as student were also often resistant, without a little gentle force how would be get in touch with the negative feelings and experiences that were holding us back and ruining our lives.  As far as it being innappropriate to have the student do physical labor, I have never felt more accomplished than I did after I built a fence, or dug and built an outhouse, or cleared that damned lower field of daisys.  Also, there is a line of thinking called Body psycotherepy, the idea is that we hold our emotions in our muscular skeletal system, and that by working those muscles we can get in touch with those emotions and release them.  I know that all of us experienced at some point a emotional break or revelation after strenuous excersize.  
   I did not and do not have an eating disorder, and in my time at MMS, (I can truly say I believe I was the only one of you who was there with me that didn't.)  I did not have a food plan because I did not need one.  But I have seen what unchecked eating disorders do to women and think maybe you ladies need to take an honest look at yourself when it comes to your relationship with food.  
    I saw on one of the postings that someone questioned Mike and Debs ability to help troubled girls because their son commited suicide.  If this is true I have nothing but sadness for them, and anger for the person who would post that information for all too see, and then to infer that it was their fault.  There is obviously a lot of anger in ther person who posted that, but being cruel to some one who has experienced a tragedy is crossing the line.  We, all of us who went to MMS, wether we had a positive or negative experience know that WE ALONE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR ACTIONS.   The staff at MMS might not have always done the correct thing at the correct time, but who does?  I am discusted that you could be so cruel and heartless to people who genuinly wanted to help you.  The primary staff put in long hours ( do you think they want to be in group all night?) in an emotionally draining job, because they believe in saving girls who exausted their other chances for help.  Please if you are the person who posted this, think about how you would feel if your child commited suicide and someone posted that information on a public forum and than insinuated it was your fault. PLEASE TAKE THIS DOWN NOW!!!  That is private info and nobody's buisiness.
    As far as the staff " making millions of dollars a year"  I don't think you understand the amount of money it takes just to keep a schol like MMS running, the insurance, the food, the pay that all of the staff deserve, it is a demanding and difficult job, and they deserve to be paid appropriatly.  Many of you don't remember this becuase you came along later, But when they started the school the staff had to live there, because the school was not  bringing in enough money to pay themselves appropriate wages.  A school like MMS takes a lot of money to run, a large portion of your tuition goes to keeping the school going.  Mental health care is very expensive, I don't know if any of you are still in therepy, but I have to pay $150 and hour to see my psychiatrist.  When you think about it $100,000 for an entire year is a steal of a deal!!
    No matter what our experiences were, I would like to be in contact with all of you,  we are all sisters really.  If you have sad and difficult memories form MMS I am truly sad for you, as my experience was so wonderful.  I found the primary staff, John, Colleen, Mike Deb and Gary to be careing, loving, accepting.  I was surprised to see so many negative things said about John, who I see not as abusive or a megalomaniac, but as strong and honest.  Very Honest, sometimes the truth can hurt.  It seems like some of you are angry with John for telling you the truth about yourself that you did not and still do not want to hear.  I know that I can always count on John to tell me exactly what he thinks, but I can also count on him to listen to me and respect me, even if I have a differing opinion.  I want to here from all of you so please let me know how you are doing in your like now.  I am living in Portland Oregon, if any onf you live nearby lets get together.  I can not wait to se what you all have to say about what I have posted.   Love to all Katie Harrison ( Wintermute now as I am married)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
ny MMS alumni please contact me if you like, I am most interested in finding Kaiwyn and Annie, of the 90-94 era.  [email protected]

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2005, 01:41:00 PM »
Katie,

I'm sure I was there after you, but I'm living in Portland, OR as well!  I would love to hear from you and maybe get together for coffee sometime (no shortage of Starbucks here, eh?)  [email protected]  Thanks for your post.

SH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2005, 02:42:00 AM »
KH- I'm glad MMS was helpful for you but I couldn't disagree with you more. naturally, not about your own experience, but about the staff being self-sacrificing for the sake of our well being.
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Offline katfish

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« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2005, 03:51:00 AM »
KATIE WROTE:
I saw on one of the postings that someone questioned Mike and Debs ability to help troubled girls because their son commited suicide. If this is true I have nothing but sadness for them, and anger for the person who would post that information for all too see, and then to infer that it was their fault. There is obviously a lot of anger in ther person who posted that, but being cruel to some one who has experienced a tragedy is crossing the line. We, all of us who went to MMS, wether we had a positive or negative experience know that WE ALONE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR ACTIONS. The staff at MMS might not have always done the correct thing at the correct time, but who does? I am discusted that you could be so cruel and heartless to people who genuinly wanted to help you.  Please if you are the person who posted this, think about how you would feel if your child commited suicide and someone posted that information on a public forum and than insinuated it was your fault. PLEASE TAKE THIS DOWN NOW!!! That is private info and nobody's buisiness.


Hey Katie,

I'm afraid I will not be taking the post down regarding Mikes son, despite the emotional repulsion it has caused you.  I think that it's a point to consider and I am sorry this upsets you- I too feel very sad for Mike and Deb, however I also know how Mike treated me- disrespectfuly and and in an aggresive and intimidating manner. Given my limited, day to day for 2 years experience with Mike it would not be unreasonable to suppose, considering the type of man I saw Mike to be,  to say he may have contributed to the untimely death of their son.  It certainly wouldn't be a complete shocker, at least not to me.  It is unfortunate, but freely public information. Obviously I don't view Mike as an individual who 'just wanted to help me.'  He did far more harm than good- in fact, i can't think of a single positive experience with Mike.  While I don't wish him harm and felt very sad when I heard, I think that Mike was a really aggresive person who enjoyed tremendously imposing his own will onto others.  I also know the effect this had on me and many others, I can only imagine how traumatic it would have been to have been his daughter.  Of course, we all know that no one really knows the reality and we may only speculate in our own minds- I chose to state those speculations aloud.  I may be insensitive to the Finn's feelings, but frankly that's of little concern to me b/c my aim  
is at a much larger truth.  I don't think that truth should be swept under the rug b/c it may hurt someone's feelings, especially when the private is very much related to what should be public.  If Mike was a counselor- my counselor at a time I was suicidal- struggled with during and after, the point I am making are regarding his qualifications- his skills and wherewithal- to deal with such a difficult and complex issues such as depression and a desire to end your own existence.  
Suppose I am right.  Suppose I am wrong.  I suppose it doesn't really matter.  Whatever side of the fence you're on, you may either agree or disagree- it's fair speculate and certainly does not make me heartless.  I can hear the gasp concerning bringing up this delicate topic and then directly placing some responsibility on Mike's shoulders, but yes, I do dare speak what I speculate.  I'm sorry this offends you Katie, but not sorry enough not to speak.
kat
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2005, 10:21:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-06-02 00:51:00, katfish wrote:

"KATIE WROTE:
I saw on one of the postings that someone questioned Mike and Debs ability to help troubled girls because their son commited suicide. If this is true I have nothing but sadness for them, and anger for the person who would post that information for all too see, and then to infer that it was their fault. There is obviously a lot of anger in ther person who posted that, but being cruel to some one who has experienced a tragedy is crossing the line.


Anger? Probably. Cruelty? I don't think so. These people have publicly entered into the business of straightening out troubled teens. Would you take you family to a restaurant if you knew that the proprietor's own family had died of food poisoning? Of course not. Not if you knew.





Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.
--Isaac Asimov, Russian-born American author

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2005, 10:44:00 AM »
I'm still disgusted by what you wrote Kat.  Do you blame your parents for everything that has ever happened to you?  I sure hope not.  And in my opinion, it was heartless.  Just my opinion.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2005, 12:35:00 PM »
Kat is a caring person who wants the truth known. She's not heatless.
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Offline katfish

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« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2005, 12:36:00 PM »
nope, i certainly do not blame my parents for evertyhing, a great deal, but not everything.  They recognize that fact and take on that responsibility too, in fact.  
Your opinion, fair enough.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
Margaret Mead

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2005, 12:54:00 PM »
Knowing some details of this young man's suicide would certainly shed some light on these so-called counselors, and that is not a heartless thing to want to know--- since these people have put themselves out there to be in control of the "therapy of young girls who might themselves be suicidal." Did this boy leave a suicide note? Was he in therapy himself at the time of this most tragic event?  Was this boy's sucicide discussed openly, or was it treated as some "deep dark family secret?"  These are important issues. Teenagers don't JUST KILL THEMSELVES.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2005, 01:00:00 PM »
Kat

I do not believe that your opinion was heartless. I too believe the same. Mike's son was sent to prison, a place where everyone is in a fight to survive. Sadly he decided to end his own life. I think those thoughts have lingered in the most of our minds as well. I struggled with these thoughts painfully at MMS because of the way I was being treated. I wanted to hurt myself at MMS more than I ever had in my life. I always felt misunderstood and issues were being forced on to me. Issues that I do not have. Fortunately I decided to save myself and fake my way through MMS.
Mike and Debb filed a lawsuit against the prison for neglecting their son,( keep in mind that jails are not completely responsible for the emotinal well-being of an inmate). I was in MMS wanting to commit suicide- a place completely responsible to full fil my emotinal needs. MMS neglected me of the proper therapy. Mike and Debb neglected me of the proper therapy (as witnesses and pricipals of the school).It does not make sense in my mind how they can call a jail neglective, but not be able to see that in MMS- a theraputic school? Does someone at mms need to hurt seriously themselves in order for Mission Montain School to have a real reality check?

and How can they be responsible for 30 girls and their emotinal needs if they can not even help their own son? How can I try to care for another child if I can not even care for my own?


The deepest truth is hardest to hear and easiest to reject.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2005, 02:02:00 PM »
More important: What credentials does Mike and Deb hold? What are their qualifications for this job? What is their education?
These so-called "schools in the teen help business" continually employee people without teaching, psychological, or counseling degrees.
The MMS website TODAY advertises it is "fully accredited."  Who accredits this schoool? Do they employ certified teacheres in each core subject? AND are all core subjects offered to student?
Are parents provided an "educational plan" and a "therapy plan" for each child to assure that their academic and psychological/emotional needs are being met?
What does the "contract" promise? Are all these promises fulfilled?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2005, 02:42:00 PM »
Mike and Deb no longer work at the school, no longer live in Montana, and no longer work in the field.  They had an extreme tragedy in their lives and aren't affecting the girls at MMS any longer.  Lets leave them be... they are humans, their own son took his own life.  They got out of the theraputic boarding school situation and I'm sure are just trying to move on and heal.  They took care of their son, but there's only so much you can do once your child is an adult and responsible for themselves.  No one knows the whole story here, so to blame the parents is sick.  A boy committed suicide at my college about a year ago... he was an adult.... his parents were aware of his depression,  of his suicidal thoughts.  He was even taken out of school for a semester to get back on track.  He came back with every intention of living but wasn't strong enough.  He took his life in his dorm room and I don't think one person blamed it on his parents.  He was living on his own, his parents tried to help but you can only do so much!
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2005, 03:05:00 PM »
Everyone has compassion for anyone who has a child die from suicide.

The questions still need to be answered:

What credentials does XYZ have who is employed to teach and offer counseling to students at MMS?

Are core classes were and ARE being taught at MMS? WERE and Are the teachers certified?
What agency accredits MMS?

Are parents given an "academic plan" and a "therapy plan" for the students at MMS?

Do the owners keep ALL the promises made in the contract with the parents?
Did the "contractual agreement" include an "corporal punishment?"
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2005, 04:12:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-06-02 07:44:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I'm still disgusted by what you wrote Kat.  Do you blame your parents for everything that has ever happened to you?  I sure hope not.  And in my opinion, it was heartless.  Just my opinion."


In my opinion, anyone who couldn't give their own child even the bare minimum care, understanding and help to prevent suicide should not enter into the business of saving other people's children. That's both heartless and brainless!

Education is that which remains, if one has forgotten everything he learned in school.
--Albert Einstein, Out of My Later Years, 1950

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2005, 06:18:00 PM »
Please I agree with one the anonymous users. Lets LEAVE THEM ALONE....
I live a few hours from Mike and DEb and please they are trying to just live day to day. One of my bestfriends from MMS (who lost her parents) is very close with them and so far they are okay.
STOP with M&D they no longer are a part of the school and to an extent of how they were treated when they wanted to leave no longer talk to other founding staff. They don't want to hear about the school or be viewed as MMS....they are just mike and deb.
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