Author Topic: Positive MMS emperience  (Read 8986 times)

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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2005, 01:18:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-07-02 20:37:00, katfish wrote:

"Antigen mentioned Maoist thought reform, and I didn't quite understand- now I do...

Yeah, I'm really not being expansive or overly dramatic when I say that.

Quote
Nelson treated a Tulsa teen who had spent a few months at Paradise Cove in Samoa.

"One of the points of these programs that remove kids completely from their environments is to provide an environment where there can be almost total control of their behavior," he said. "Some of the kids manage to internalize those values and take the external control and make it internal control.

"My suspicion is that's probably the exception rather than the rule and that when most of these kids get back where there is not that degree of control, they will deteriorate even further."


Nelson ought to do further research. I think the people who are able to blow it off come out far and away less damaged than those who can't manage to resist internalizing the control.

There are two kinds of people; those who's lives have been somehow touched by harsh tragedy and those you don't know very well.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2005, 02:26:00 PM »
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On 2005-07-02 23:47:00, Anonymous wrote:

"WOW.....Thank you to the anon who knows a little about me to know I wouldn't write a post like that.

First....Let go of Mike and Deb good lord move on. and if you must have such HATE, ANGER,  and  DISGUST with MMS at least direct to the people who are still there.

WHY WOULD WE WANT TO DO THAT? JUST B/C A CORRUPT POLITICIAN FLEES THE COUNTRY AND MAYBE EXPERIENCES SOME REALLY SAD THINGS IN HIS LIFE DOESNT MAKE EVERYTHING OK

And Meri is right....move on with it. Go to Therapy and deal with whatever it is you need to deal with cause obviously you have alot to deal with. a lot.......


I THINK YOU NEED THERAPY.  CLEARLY YOU DONT KNOW HOW TO LIVE AND LET LIVE.  I THINK YOU HAVE A LOT TO DEAL WITH BC YOU ARE DEFENDING SOMETHING WITH THE IN THE MOST ILLOGICAL WAY POSSIBLE THAT SAYS TO ME YOU 1. NOT BRIGHT 2. NOT BRIGHT 3. BORED 4. IGNORANT
Anyway.................

oh, just double check and make sure you know who and what your talking about before you start a post that only embarasses you "

WHOS EMBARRASED?


Quote
On , Anonymous wrote:

whoever wrote this about maridell--- wish you would listen to the advice you give and TAKE IT YOURSELF. I happen to know the indivdual that wrote that (NOT BETSY--- whoever thought she wrote that... that's a little crazy)... and she happens to be both an amazing person, an amazing therapist, and on top of that has had a lot of familiarity with MMS and it's alumni- she is also NOT a former student-- so that little comment on "MMS worked wonders for you"-- nope.... so before you go trying to be the smarter cookie... just try being smart.


I SERIOUSLY DOUBT THAT BUT IF TRUE IM VERY SCARED
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2005, 02:39:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-07-02 23:47:00, Anonymous wrote:

"WOW.....Thank you to the anon who knows a little about me to know I wouldn't write a post like that.

First....Let go of Mike and Deb good lord move on. and if you must have such HATE, ANGER,  and  DISGUST with MMS at least direct to the people who are still there.

And Meri is right....move on with it. Go to Therapy and deal with whatever it is you need to deal with cause obviously you have alot to deal with. a lot.......

Anyway.................

oh, just double check and make sure you know who and what your talking about before you start a post that only embarasses you "


thou protesth too much
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2005, 02:49:00 PM »
M- are you a graduate APA?

http://www.apsa.org/pubinfo/about.htm

Based on what seems to be a far more credible source than Maribell here we have to note that phsychanalysis is an addresing of evolving behaviors that have roots in unconscious/past issues that contribute to the present.  Can anyone say MMS anxiety???

By the way, m, are you listed here as a professional?

What is Psychoanalysis?
When people ask what psychoanalysis is, they usually want to know about treatment. As a therapy, psychoanalysis is based on the observation that individuals are often unaware of many of the factors that determine their emotions and behavior. These unconscious factors may create unhappiness, sometimes in the form of recognizable symptoms and at other times as troubling personality traits, difficulties in work or in love relationships, or disturbances in mood and self-esteem. Because these forces are unconscious, the advice of friends and family, the reading of self-help books, or even the most determined efforts of will, often fail to provide relief.
Psychoanalytic treatment demonstrates how these unconscious factors affect current relationships and patterns of behavior, traces them back to their historical origins, shows how they have changed and developed over time, and helps the individual to deal better with the realities of adult life.

Analysis is an intimate partnership, in the course of which the patient becomes aware of the underlying sources of his or her difficulties not simply intellectually, but emotionally - by re-experiencing them with the analyst. Typically, the patient comes four or five times a week, lies on a couch, and attempts to say everything that comes to mind. These conditions create the analytic setting, which permits the emergence of aspects of the mind not accessible to other methods of observation. As the patient speaks, hints of the unconscious sources of current difficulties gradually begin to appear - in certain repetitive patterns of behavior, in the subjects which the patient finds hard to talk about, in the ways the patient relates to the analyst.

The analyst helps elucidate these for the patient, who refines, corrects, rejects, and adds further thoughts and feelings. During the years that an analysis takes place, the patient wrestles with these insights, going over them again and again with the analyst and experiencing them in daily life, in fantasies, and in dreams. Patient and analyst join in efforts not only to modify crippling life patterns and remove incapacitating symptoms, but also to expand the freedom to work and to love. Eventually the patient's life - his or her behavior, relationships, sense of self - changes in deep and abiding ways.


Child and Adolescent Psychoanalysis
Child and adolescent psychoanalysis, both offshoots of adult psychoanalysis, share with it a common theoretical framework for understanding psychological life, while also using additional techniques and measures to deal with the special capacities and vulnerabilities of children. For instance, the young patient is helped to reveal his or her inner feelings and worries not only through words, but also through drawings and fantasy play. In the treatment of all but late adolescents, parents are usually consulted to round out the picture of the child's life. The goal of child and adolescent analysis is the removal of symptoms and of the psychological roadblocks that interfere with normal development.

Is Psychoanalysis only a Therapy?
Although psychoanalysis began as a tool for ameliorating emotional suffering, it is not only a therapy. It is, in addition, a method for learning about the mind, and also a theory, a way of understanding the processes of normal everyday mental functioning and the stages of normal development from infancy to old age. Furthermore, since psychoanalysis seeks to explain how the human mind works, it contributes insight into whatever the human mind produces. In so doing, it has had a profound influence on many aspects of twentieth-century culture.
As a general theory of individual human behavior and experience, psychoanalytic ideas enrich and are enriched by the study of the biological and social sciences, group behavior, history, philosophy, art, and literature. As a developmental theory, psychoanalysis contributes to child psychology, education, law, and family studies. Through its examination of the complex relationship between body and mind, psychoanalysis also furthers our understanding of the role of emotions in health as well as in medical illness.

In addition, psychoanalytic knowledge is the basis of all other dynamic approaches to therapy. Whatever the modifications, the insights of psychoanalysis form the underpinnings of much of the psychotherapy employed in general psychiatric practice, in child psychiatry, and in most other individual, family, and group therapies.


The Psychoanalytic Tradition
Sigmund Freud was the first psychoanalyst. Many of his insights into the human mind, which seemed so revolutionary at the turn of the century, are now widely accepted by most schools of psychological thought. Although others before and during his time had begun to recognize the role of unconscious mental activity, Freud was the preeminent pioneer in understanding its importance. Through his extensive work with patients and through his theory building, he showed that factors which influence thought and action exist outside of awareness, that unconscious conflict plays a part in determining both normal and abnormal behavior, and that the past shapes the present. Although his ideas met with antagonism and resistance, Freud believed deeply in the value of his discoveries and rarely simplified or exaggerated them for the sake of popular acceptance. He saw that those who sought to change themselves or others must face realistic difficulties. But he also showed us that, while the dark and blind forces in human nature sometimes seem overwhelming, psychological understanding, by enlarging the realm of reason and responsibility, can make a substantial difference to troubled individuals and even to civilization as a whole.
Building on such ideas and ideals, psychoanalysis has continued to grow and develop as a general theory of human mental functioning, while always maintaining a profound respect for the uniqueness of each individual life. Ferment, change, and new ideas have enriched the field, and psychoanalytic practice has adapted and expanded. But psychoanalysts today still appreciate the persistent power of the irrational in shaping or limiting human lives, and they therefore remain skeptical of the quick cure, the deceptively easy answer, the trendy or sensationalistic. Like Freud, they believe that psychoanalysis is the strongest and most sophisticated tool for obtaining further knowledge of the mind, and that by using this knowledge for greater self-awareness, patients free themselves from incapacitating suffering, and improve and deepen human relationships.


Who Can Benefit from Psychoanalysis?
Because analysis is a highly individualized treatment, people who wish to know if they would benefit from it should seek consultation with an experienced psychoanalyst. Still, some generalizations can be made. The person best able to undergo psychoanalysis is someone who, no matter how incapacitated at the time, is basically, or potentially, a sturdy individual. This person may have already achieved important satisfactions - with friends, in marriage, in work, or through special interests and hobbies - but is nonetheless significantly impaired by long-standing symptoms: depression or anxiety, sexual incapacities, or physical symptoms without any demonstrable underlying physical cause. One person may be plagued by private rituals or compulsions or repetitive thoughts of which no one else is aware. Another may live a constricted life of isolation and loneliness, incapable of feeling close to anyone. A victim of childhood sexual abuse might suffer from an inability to trust others. Some people come to analysis because of repeated failures in work or in love, brought about not by chance but by self- destructive patterns of behavior. Others need analysis because the way they are - their character - substantially limits their choices and their pleasures. And still others seek analysis definitively to resolve psychological problems that were only temporarily or partially resolved by other approaches.
Whatever the problem - and each is different - that a person brings to the analyst, it can be properly understood only within the context of that person's strengths and life situation. Hence, the need for a thorough evaluation to determine who will benefit - and who will not - from psychoanalysis.


Who is a Psychoanalyst?
The designation "psychoanalyst" is not protected by federal or state law: anyone, even an untrained person, may use the title. It is therefore important to know the practitioner's credentials before beginning treatment.
Graduate psychoanalysts trained under the auspices of the American Psychoanalytic Association have had very rigorous and extensive clinical education. Candidates accepted for training at an accredited psychoanalytic institute must meet high ethical, psychological, and professional standards. These candidates are either physicians who have completed a four-year residency program in psychiatry, psychologists or social workers who have completed a doctoral program in their fields or hold a clinical masters degree in a mental health field where such a degree is generally recognized as the highest clinical degree; all must have had extensive clinical experience. Outstandingly qualified scholar-researchers, educators, and selected other professionals may also be approved for psychoanalytic training. All accepted candidates, whatever their background, then begin at least four years of psychoanalytic training..
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #34 on: July 03, 2005, 02:57:00 PM »
The designation "psychoanalyst" is not protected by federal or state law: ANYONE, even an untrained person, may use the title. It is therefore important to know the practitioner's credentials before beginning treatment.
Graduate psychoanalysts trained under the auspices of the American Psychoanalytic Association have had very rigorous and extensive clinical education. Candidates accepted for training at an accredited psychoanalytic institute must meet high ethical, psychological, and professional standards.

M, are you part of APA???


Along the same lines about what the aim is to lend legitimacy/authority to something- there is that famous study done at Stanford where test subjects were asked to electricute a  person whenever he answsered questions worng that teh scienctiis asked.  B/c the scientist was the 'voice of reason' and was a 'credentialed' individual, all notions of right and wrong went out the window.  50 % of the test subject electrocuted the person answering the questions (despite -fake- screams and please to stop) to death or either near death.

 I thought this was interested b/c people often through about titles as if they mean something, and sometimes they do, but not at the exclusion of all else that is sensible.
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Offline [email protected]

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« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2005, 04:42:00 PM »
Love all your replies--I never said I was a psychoanalist, but a licensed psychotherapist in CA.  As a MFT, I dealt with families and kids dealing with depression, addiction ( including drugs, sex alcohol and eating disorders) and had a 40 patient per week caseload for 10 years.  I was affifiliated with local hospital and was re4ferred to by local psychiatrists, medical doctors and programs like yours.  I am almost 60 and have been around the block more times than you can imagine.  Now, get off your very high horses and listen again to my message:  abuses do occur in EVERY setting and if you are still angry, do something about it.  If you are a victim, don't live your life as one, go to a professional and get help.  If you are not a victim but a justice dog' be productive and organize a REAL crusade for change and supervision.  If you are neither, shame on you for your adolescent rantings..and for the sake of the real victims, do not inflame their lives but offer real love,support and encouragement to get the help they need.  And for everyone's sake, despite our right to free speech, enough said about two more victims who lost a child from suicide---probably caused by endogenous depression and nothing to do with parenting.  This tragedy will someday happen to you or someone you love or know, and with maturity,appropriate compassion  CAN be developed.  This is my last reply...I'm too old for this hatred............
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2005, 04:50:00 PM »
thou protesth to much to what???
stop being so personal with everything...take it for what it is.
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Offline tamtam

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« Reply #37 on: July 03, 2005, 05:39:00 PM »
Gee-- why on earth don't more people feel supportive of the people on this website?  Kat, you do a pretty good job of staying calm and rational in your replies.  Many of you "anonymous" people, I'm not sure why you don't say who you are.  I probably don't know most of you, and don't want to.  For the record, this is Tamara and I know Maridell well... it is extremely difficult for me right now to not just lose my temper and sink to levels many of you already have with insults and degradation.  I love how there is SOOOOO much anger on this website that no one can believe for one moment simple facts: like Maridell IS a therapist (retired now, but a fabulous and rational one- not to mention she has lived a life equally as challenging as ALL of yours... you little fledglings-- myself included), and also that many of you have so much anger and defensiveness, I am not sure how you plan on making a difference anywhere unless you are able to calm down and pull your head out of your *** long enough to communicate effectively with each other, authorities over boarding-school regulation, etc....  Follow Kat's example- she obviously has enough sense to make clear points, focus on her goal and take the actions to accomplish them.  Anyway, this place is definitely not a place to get healthy and get help, even if that was its intended purpose.  There isn't an encouraging word anywhere on this site that isn't followed by a belligerent and nasty remark by someone, usually ANONYMOUS.  I keep checking the site, but it's rasing my blood pressure and not because it makes me want to change something, it just makes me want to shoot some of you-- and I don't think that's a good sign... I have had the opportunity to talk with some alumni now that I lost touch with, and we are able to find support in each other for our bad experiences without becoming steaming rageful, which is what I see HERE.  I hope you succeed in making sure kids get treated right in schools, healing from your own traumas and learn some manners while your at it.  Judging from your responses, I imagine I am not the only one who feels pretty furious at many of you when I read all the angry "throwing of insults"-  Instead of wanting to support your efforts` I find that I can't stand the way these mind games make me feel... Kat, I wish you could start a new topic or something where people are really sincere in being there for one another, because this shit is pitting me against people I don't even know.  It's exhausting just READING the retarded elementary name calling and insults.  Anyhow, if you ever get something like that going, contact me.  Otherwise, I think I will just go back to interacting with people who contribute to my life and leave you all to dwell in this nastiness.  I am sure those of you who I refer to will have a ball ripping this letter apart and rolling your eyes and discrediting everything I say... have at it.  I think this place brings out the worst in us, underneath it all some of you might actually be really cool and kind, and so am I-- so I am leaving to find poeple who really WANT to be supportive.
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Offline katfish

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« Reply #38 on: July 03, 2005, 07:25:00 PM »
I think part of the probelm, again, is people coming in here and making all of these assumptions about MMS alumni that had issues with the program and those alumni getting very angry about that and lashing out in ways that may come across as irrational but let us not forget that beneath that there are still valid emotions and perhaps even the lashing out is indivcative of effect MMS has had- it's hard to take things lightly when you're entire traumatic expereinces are being dismissed b/c (as it comes across to me) it may hurt a couselor whose had a tragedy occur in his life.

Like sunshine has written and others, we shouldn't have to go to therapy b/c a school that was supposed to be therapuetic was not.  It's absurd to not even address that point when suggesting we should all let mike and deb be.

the point of discussing mike and deb is b/c for many of us they played a pretty big part in our lives during our developmental years and the tragedy that occured in their lives does not change that fact.

Since when does venting and anger become a bad thing?  Maybe b/c people feel baited into having to justify their feelings by alumni or by random therapsists like maribell who feel like they must point out that somehow, in putting our thoughts and feelings on a public forum about harmful effects of MMS constitutes whining  (m said sounds, but I take that to mean she believes it to be so) b/c someone may not take action... or in saying that the anger that results against this type of baiting is somehow indicative of needing therapy seems completely absurd.  

No on here is qualified to make such a suggestion, therapist or otherwise. And I think feeds into the same things propugated by MMS and anyone else that wants to keep your intolocuter quiet (like someone said above)- just tell them they need therapy, implication being they are not of sound mind and imbalanced, meaning what they have to say is somehow not accurate or valid b/c it has not been run thourgh the therapuetic ringer. I don't see how on earth that makes sense at all.

And M, I wonder, what on earth are you doing here anyway?  Presumably you're friends with an alumnus?  I think it strange you would espouse your opinions prior to  presenting even a direct line of questioning that would give you more to work with that a simple thread on a forum can...I find it insulting and entirely unprofessional that you would have the audacity to call anyone here whiny and immature given you know little about what anyone is doing. I have grave concerns about your 1. level of commitment to professional conduct 2. ethical code.  I can't imagine a single respectable therapist would come on here (just really in itself) and use their credentials (whatever those acutally mean) as leverage and speak about a topic so ignorantly.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #39 on: July 04, 2005, 02:19:00 AM »
Girls, there is something you must remember. This is a public forum and there are, well, some pretty strange people who visit. And of coures, I'm sure I'll get attacked for that comment but face it, it's true.

Just because the thread is MMS, many other than MMS come and throw out their advice and nasty comments. I've seen it everywhere on this forum. So some of the anonymous comments may be coming from people who are not even associated with MMS, or worse, who might even work for MMS.

This is not a place to get healthy, for sure. It's a good place to get one another's email addresses and contact information and then I suggest you reunite outside of here. This is an absolute waste of time.

I only come here when I'm looking for information, otherwise it's too much of a brain drain.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #40 on: July 04, 2005, 02:21:00 PM »
?Like sunshine has written and others, we shouldn't have to go to therapy b/c a school that was supposed to be therapuetic was not. It's absurd to not even address that point when suggesting we should all let mike and deb be.?

You should address this point, but if addressing the point for 10 years hasn?t given you any peace of mind (this based on the assumption that you HAVE been doing some work to overcome your trauma)?then maybe THIS therapy isn?t doing much either.  Secondly, aside from a lawsuit that will give you some peace of mind, asking questions directed at Mike and Deb is pointless, because they will NEVER respond.  You are wasting your time with questions (at least directed at them), I am sure there are other sources where you may be able to answer if he is a licensed therapist, ie the organization that provides licensing, have you tried this? Just curious, will you really feel better if you have the answers to questions that do not take away your traumatic experience?  That is a genuine question, not sarcasm.
 
?Since when does venting and anger become a bad thing?

When it consumes your life for 10 years.

??just tell them they need therapy, implication being they are not of sound mind and imbalanced, meaning what they have to say is somehow not accurate or valid?. I don't see how on earth that makes sense at all.?

It doesn?t make sense, because no one said that,  and you use this logic a lot to brush off peoples?comments.  If you read carefully, both m and others have said many times that your experiences ARE valid, the thing is?if you want to have a life not continually affected by MMS, you probably do need some additional therapy.. isn?t that why you are here?  Support is a form of therapy, often the best kind.  You may see that comment about needing additional therapy as an insult, but I use the term loosely and not insultingly? therapy can be in many different forms outside of a therapist with a PhD, I am sure you have experienced things that empower you and help you overcome other issues.

?And M, I wonder, what on earth are you doing here anyway? I think it strange you would espouse your opinions prior to presenting even a direct line of questioning that would give you more to work with that a simple thread on a forum can...I find it insulting and entirely unprofessional that you would have the audacity to call anyone here whiny and immature given you know little about what anyone is doing. I have grave concerns about your 1. level of commitment to professional conduct 2. ethical code. I can't imagine a single respectable therapist would come on here (just really in itself) and use their credentials (whatever those acutally mean) as leverage and spheak about a topic so ignorantly.?

My goodness, you like to make a lot of assumptions.  1.  it?s not leverage to state your credentials, it?s information provided so that girls like you don?t get confused about whether the person writing is a faking alumni or an educated adult.  And PS_- credentials mean that the person has had a LOT of experience with kids just like you?it takes something like 5000 hours of therapy to acquire the license she has?. Not to mention a lifetime of experiences that would make yours look like walks in the park.  (once again, not invalidating, just putting things into perspective)  2.  Ethical code?  Are you kidding me? Ignorance?  Your logic is very strange.  Explain violating ethical code by voicing an opinion on a matter that has deeply affected people she loves and cares for.  Also?you are one to speak of ignorance.  You know nothing about m, she knows nothing about you, but anyone with a brain can read what you are doing by browsing your public forum. It?s PUBLIC.  M knew me all through my experience at MMS, and actually she totally disagreed with Mike?s therapy too.  She has close relationships with several alumni, all of whom have had some bad experiences there.  So she is not unaware or disagreeing that there were major issues. But the issues you have NOW and the way you choose to handle them are so blatant that any person (not even a therapist) could read and make a few comments on your current state of mind.  You want to have a voice, but you don?t want anyone else to have one.  There are a million ways to create privacy in a forum if you don?t want to let anyone else speak differing opinions from yours.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #41 on: July 04, 2005, 05:29:00 PM »
I find Maribell and others tone to be counter-productive as well as unnecessary. For instance, to say things like:" whining " and immature" is both inappropriate--given our tone --and utterly unhelpful. As P.M.S Hacker once correctly pointed out, "burning straw men often creates more heat than light."
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Offline katfish

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« Reply #42 on: July 04, 2005, 08:09:00 PM »
Quote
 2.Secondly, aside from a lawsuit that will give you some peace of mind, asking questions directed at Mike and Deb is pointless, because they will NEVER respond.

Speaking for myself I don't expect a response to any q I and others have posted.  It's less of a matter of getting a response and more of a matter of getting them out of my head- though I have a mild curiousity to hear their opinions.  Course that wouldn't change anything, but to understand and identify what needs to be understood is an important step in the process of identifying the problem.  I think of it more of humourous way of going about it- that is, asking them q. on public forum for people to add as they wish given it was something not allowed during our stay.  I will say I received a certain amount of satisfaction adding my own question.

Quote
3.You are wasting your time with questions (at least directed at them), I am sure there are other sources where you may be able to answer if he is a licensed therapist, ie the organization that provides licensing, have you tried this? Just curious, will you really feel better if you have the answers to questions that do not take away your traumatic experience?  That is a genuine question, not sarcasm.
 
The answers to everyones questions would be important given research I'm doing to how what really went on and was allowed to go on and what needs to change to prevent it from happening again.  It puts it out there as a ? at least, publicly. It doesn't really matter to me what they have to say, though from a psychological standpoint I would like to understand how on earth one justifies MMS coercive tactics and calls it therapy.  But I don't expect a reply.  Besides, I think I have my answer at least, in part.  Sadism.
Quote

 
?Since when does venting and anger become a bad thing?



 4.When it consumes your life for 10 years.

-touche. LOL  Interestingly i have only become consumed by this most recently...  then again I'm often heavily consumed by any issue I wish to tackle. I think it also depends on what is meant by consumes and what exaclty you think is being consumed. I think that an act may have a seemingly negative focus from an outsiders perspective but may in fact be a postive thing and have positive impact/effects- an outsider never knows.  This is esp when you base that opinion- negative consumption (i assume you mean) of 10 yrs- exclusively on what is going on on this forum.  Some girls are only now revistiting this issue, after 10 years of letting bygones be....  

Quote

 5. It doesn?t make sense, because no one said that,  and you use this logic a lot to brush off peoples?comments.  If you read carefully, both m and others have said many times that your experiences ARE valid, the thing is?if you want to have a life not continually affected by MMS, you probably do need some additional therapy...
isn?t that why you are here?

But my point is that there are still assumptions being made that may or may not basis in reality, and one can't tell me that their basis for judging the reality of the situation is what's on this forum.  Personally, I think that anyone's therapuetic reccommendations should be reserved for people they know- no one can make a valid recommendation unless they know who they are recommending it to and it's rather presumptuous to do so, wouldn't you say?
Oh, and as to why I'm here- no, I'm not here for therapy or to vent- well, maybe sometimes, but more than anything else I just want to have furture girls to be able to look back at what I've written and get from that a feeling it's ok to admit that MMS was a negative experience and that they are not 'crazy' for thinking that.  One of the biggest hurdles I think for girls is to feel they are not bad or crazy and somehow being assholes for being critical of the school.  That's my therapy, I suppose. If one takes therapy to mean, to an extent, triumphing over bad expereince.  Perhaps that may explain my quickness to brush of threrapuetic suggestions- only if a small part.  The other part is b/c I find it annoying that anyone can be so brazen to assume so much based on so little and that they are in any position to do so.  


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Support is a form of therapy, often the best kind.  You may see that comment about needing additional therapy as an insult, but I use the term loosely and not insultingly? therapy can be in many different forms outside of a therapist with a PhD, I am sure you have experienced things that empower you and help you overcome other issues.

I see the comment about therapy as a way to get people to feel uncomfortable about voicing opinion  on MMS but really only b/c the immature whining part- didn't seem to me that could be interpreted any other way, but I'm human and, as one of them could be wrong...

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 7 .My goodness, you like to make a lot of assumptions.  1.  it?s not leverage to state your credentials, it?s information provided so that girls like you don?t get confused about whether the person writing is a faking alumni or an educated adult.  And PS_- credentials mean that the person has had a LOT of experience with kids just like you?it takes something like 5000 hours of therapy to acquire the license she has?. Not to mention a lifetime of experiences that would make yours look like walks in the park.  (once again, not invalidating, just putting things into perspective)

The way M wrote it came across as an attempt to use her position to make her opinion somehow more vaild than they would otherwise be.  She write- 'as a xyz i'm appalled....'  First thing she writes implies that writing about Mike is wrong b/c he's going through a hard time.  Hmmmm....not sure why it would matter she's a therapist and why that would need to be announced if not leverage esp given her aim is to express an opinion and be persuasive in doing so and that the opinion itself is really is kind of suspect.  She says, 'you prefer to bash'? and makes suggestion about what should be done alt., therapy and legistlative activism essentially b/c we sound like immature girls who are whining.--  Frankly, I can't see a single statement here that would indicate any degree of commitment to professionalism give- assumptions and redirecting up the wazoo is what I hear. 1. I have never heard  an adult use the word bashing (except at MMS) what does that mean? Slight of the hand and suddenly we're mean alumni  2.Assumes girls are ready for action 3.Assumes there's no inherent value in discussion 4. Makes it seem as if further discussion is immature and whiney.  I doubt that any professional would come one here and make a blanket statement like that, as has been mentioend i highly doubt this person is a real person and if they are I wonder about them...  

It is leverage to use credentials if aim is to alter behavior by listing qualifications as if that makes the paticular opinion somehow more valid than others and is used to state that it is best to become activist and stop 'immature whining' .  Some girls may not be in the position to emotionally handle going against the school at any level except through annonymous chatter- MMS did some serious damage to girls on that front.  And, given I know this to be true from girls i have spoken with and, maybe M does not, that's the basis for my frustration and for stating that she speaks from ignorance.  I also think of the damage, even if miniscule, that saying such things may cause and lending credibility to such a statement may do- that working things out through talking on forum underestimates the power of dialogue and working things out for yourself and assumes girls have the power to do that on a personal level with no peer support.

 
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2.  Ethical code?  Are you kidding me? Ignorance?  Your logic is very strange.  Explain violating ethical code by voicing an opinion on a matter that has deeply affected people she loves and cares for.

Ignorance b/c she assumes that girls can take action when frequently there has been great opposition, and not just from the oustide, but from the mind when you consider MMS trained us not to speak against them- and essentially name calling.  Unethical b/c, while she may know you and others, she does not know me or the girls she is adressing and to call use words like immature and whining, as a professional, I would think violates any kind of ehtical code established by whatever professional association she may belong to.  To me it would be like saying to a patient      
(a new patient at that)  'you need to do xyz b/c what your doing now sounds like immature whining' Can you imagine?? LOL  That would be grounds to call a meeting with the ethics committee of any reputable psychological/psychotherapuetic or otherwise association.
Esp. given M does not know these girls past nor understands their present.  I think it's quite irresponsible to presume to know so much just by any random person, but for a professional to so kind of suprises me.
And certainly her point could have been made clearer & w/o the insults.  Not to mention, sounds very much like scolding, given she's 'appalled' and that she's suggesting it is best to not speak of Mike b/c the poor guys suffered.


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 Also?you are one to speak of ignorance.  You know nothing about m, she knows nothing about you, but anyone with a brain can read what you are doing by browsing your public forum. It?s PUBLIC.

ok

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M knew me all through my experience at MMS, and actually she totally disagreed with Mike?s therapy too.  

What therapits wouldn't?  I mean that seriously, if you know any that would I'd like to know b/c I have tons of questions.  That doesn't make her any less irresponsible.

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She has close relationships with several alumni, all of whom have had some bad experiences there.  So she is not unaware or disagreeing that there were major issues. But the issues you have NOW and the way you choose to handle them are so blatant that any person (not even a therapist) could read and make a few comments on your current state of mind.  

 Who's making assumptions now- this is getting to be tit-for-tat?  A forum is nothing more than a series of snapshots of opinions on various topics that may or may not be in their stage of development and open to great deal of interepretation- but that's all it is.  You may feel you are comfortable naming whatever issue I have now, but that's just about the silliest thing i've ever hear.  you would, in your attempt- as M seems to, lack visible clarity that comes from seeing the big picute and would be entirely speculative -  I highly doubt that you your comments would accurately portary any issue I have now- but certainly you can talk about what i've said.  You assume what I have said, however, would be an accurate basis from which to state my issues NOW and somehow reflects who I am and  so on such a level that would give you a place to insert your opinion on my issues.  Forget about whether or not you're qualified, but who on earth are you to list my issues esp. if we have never met and you are no more than a stranger making interpretations on an extremely limited info of words on a forum.   I mean, you can read my palm if you'd like, I guess, but what the hell for?  And what difference does it make?  And why am I even commenting on this? A great deal goes on oustide of this realm, not much covered here.  
Beyond the fact that the issue here is not how I deal with my life, past, present or otherwise and that the issue here, this thread in this forum, is about MMS- the point is  I could just as easily recommend therapy for just about anyone that crosses my path- but I don't and the reason here is critical to understanding what I'm saying.  I don't say, you as a stranger need therapy b/c I don't know really know you and  to suggest therapy would be way out of line.  A line of etiqutte perhaps MMS did not teach us...I don't even know you nor you me nor m - and reading some threads   written on a forum- despite if it may feel as if you do- you don't know me. Therapy is a very personal choice- esp. given most people would have to struggle a great deal to even afford the cost, it's  a suggestion that friends and loved ones make to each other  Not complete strangers to one another.  And yet,  I hear it all to often sugested and thrown around w/ no grounds or basis, execpt some excerpts on a forum, to do so.  So when I say ignorance, I do in fact mean ignorace.


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You want to have a voice, but you don?t want anyone else to have one.  There are a million ways to create privacy in a forum if you don?t want to let anyone else speak differing opinions from yours.  

"


There exists a private forum for alumni, but publicly i don't have any problem w/ people who have a differing opinion- but insults are different and so is discounting what is being said and not conceding to the problems of MMS.  But no one should have to agree and that's what discussion is for.  And, in reality, if I truely didn't want anyone else to speak up and be able to reply and have a dialogue with to make my point, I wouldn't be here.  I encourage more people to speak up.  

I wrote this earlier---

I don't mind other people speaking out, I simply have grave concrens that other girls who have left the program and had bad experiences may look at this forum and feel like they may not be able to express their feelings b/c of people who through around terms like 'MMS bashing' and 'you are the one with the problem' and suggesting that THEY seek help to recover from a school that was supposed to provide them with such treatment.  I may jump the gun, but, if you look back you may be able to see how frequently that has been a problem
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline BIRDLADY360

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« Reply #43 on: July 05, 2005, 02:15:00 PM »
I SENT MY DAUGHTER  TO MISSION MOUNTAIN SCHOOL 9YRS AGO.  SHE LEFT HOME DURING A HOME VISIT BECAUSE OF THE PURE FEAR SHE HAD OF MIKE. NOT TO MENTION THE FEAR SHE HAD FOR JOHN.  YES, SHE TRIED TO DO THINGS TO GET EXPELLED,  BUT WE WERE NOT ALWAYS PRIVY TO IT. BEFORE SENDING HER AWAY MY HUSBAND AND I SPOKE TO JOHN IN PERSON ABOUT THE SCHOOL AND ASKED MANY QUESTIONS.  WE LEFT FEELING SADDENED BY THE FACT THAT OUR DAUGHTER WOULD NOT BE LIVING WITH US.  WE COULD NOT HELP HER TO HELP HERSELF.  I FELT THAT TIME AWAY FROM HER FORMER FRIENDS WAS A MUST.  WE DID NOT AND HAVE NOT EVER GIVEN UP ON HER.  I SPOKE TO DEB ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS ABOUT MY CONCERN OF THE HTE HARSH TREATMENT I HAD SEEN AT THE SCHOOL.  I WAS ALWAYS CONCERNED ABOUT THE TWO OF THEM WORKING TOGETHER WITH THE GIRLS.  I EVEN TOLD HER I DID NOT WANT TO CAUSE ANY TROUBLE FOR THE TWO OF THEM IN THEIR RELATIONSHIP OUTSIDE OF THE SCHOOL. THAT WAS WHY I NEVER WENT INTO MUCH DISCUSSION OF HOW I FELT ABOUT MIKE'S ABUSE BEHAVIOUR TOWARDS MY DAUGHTER OR SOME OF THE OTHER GIRLS.  I DO FEEL GREAT PAIN AND SYMPATHY FOR THE LOSS OF THEIR SON.  MY DAUGHTER LIKED THEIR KIDS AND ENJOYED PLAYING SO
CCER WITH THEM.  AS A PARENT, WE TRY TO DO OUR VERY BEST FOR OUR CHILDREN.  SOMETIMES THEY NEED A ANOTHER APPROACH THAT WE CAN NOT DELIVER OURSELVES.  PLEASE DO NOT BASH THEM OVER THE WAY THEIR SON DIED.  THEY WILL ALWAYS LIVE WITH PAIN AND EMPTINESS KNOWING THAT THEY DID NOT SUCCEED IN HELPING HIM.  UNTIL YOU EXPERIENCE THE PAIN OF BEING ABLE TO HELP OTHERS BUT NOT THOSE CLOSEST TO YOU,  YOU CAN NOT UNDERSTAND THEIR PAIN.  MIKE AND DEB, IF YOU READ THIS YOU MAY CONTACT ME.  PAM
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
OTHER OF MIA SCHIMMEL  STUDENT AT MMS 9 YRS AGO

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #44 on: July 05, 2005, 03:04:00 PM »
what do people mean by bashing?  perhaps there's a miscommunication  because what i see is alumni who have had previous experience with Mike  expressing the fact that they are not suprised that, given the way mike treated them when they were depressed, that their own son could not be offered the help he needed by Mike nor by Deb.  Sad but bashing? i dont see it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »