Parents, please consider this

[BuzzKill]

Indeed.
heres a little diitty that explains addiction:

So now little man -
you've grown tired of grass -
LSD, goofballs, cocaine and hash -
And someone pretending to be a true friend -
said I'll introduce you to Miss Heroin.

Well honey, before you start fooling with me -
Just let me inform you of how it will be -
for I will seduce you and make you my slave -
I've sent men much stronger than you to their graves.

You think you could never become a disgrace -
and end up addicted to poppy seed waste.
So, you'll start inhaling me one afternoon -
You'll take me into your arms very soon.
And when I have entered deep down in your veins -
the craving will nearly drive you insane.

You'll need lots of money -
as you have been told -
For darling, I'm much more expensive than gold.

You'll swindle your mother -
and just for a buck -
You'll turn into something vile and corrupt.
You'll mug and you'll steal for my narcotic charm -
and you'll feel content while I'm in your arm.

And when you realize the monster you've grown -
You'll solemnly promise to leave me alone.
You think that you've got the mystical knack?
Well, sweetie -
Just try getting me off you back!

The vomit -
The Cramps -
Your gut tied in a knot -
the cold chills,the hot sweat, the withdrawal pains-
You can only be saved by my little white grains.

And when you return -
just as I foretold -
I know that you'll give me body and soul.
You'll give up your conscience, your morals, your heart -
And you will be mine -
till death do us part.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I know I have butchered some lines - but it was a long time ago - and I can't recall it all exactly.
All the pot ate holes in my memory.
However - it never caused me a moments discomfort upon quitting it.



:smokin: [ This Message was edited by: BuzzKill on 2005-04-23 13:06 ]

[Guest]

Just remember that marijuana *MAY* have long-term effects for people with certain risk factors.

There is recent research that smoking marijuana increases the risk of psychosis for people with bipolar disorder.

Hey, there's very little in life that is safe for *everyone*. Some people are allergic to peanut butter. Some people are diabetic. Some people are phenylketoneuric (sp?). Some people have to really watch their diet to control heart disease.

I'm not repeating reefer madness crap. Just saying that someone who has bipolar disorder might do better to avoid weed and, if they're all that interested in it, push for more research to see if it really *is* that dangerous for them or not.

Timoclea

[Guest]

For the 99% of us that can smoke all the pot we want for years and decades with no ill effects, this bud's for you!

[ img ]

Peeps with bipolar, stick with the indicas and you'll do fine. No imported crap either.

[Antigen]

On 2005-04-23 13:37:00, Anonymous wrote:

There is recent research that smoking marijuana increases the risk of psychosis for people with bipolar disorder.

Are you talking about the Austrailian study? I remember when that came out. There was a lot of buzz about it in drug policy reform lists. Essentially, the concensus was that 1) some of the people affiliated w/ the study (funders and promoters) were shady; as in Enoch Gordis shady and 2) that it only showed a correlation, not a causual relationship. In other words, that you coudn't tell from the data they gathered whether the pot smoking actually caused future breakdown or whether people predisposed to such mental illness tended to smoke more than others.

I always have to think of my brother whenever the topic of MJ and schyzophrenia come up. He smoked a LOT of pot. And he went nuts. But he was a lot less nuts when he was smoking a lot of pot than when he wasn't.

You never see animals going through the absurd and often horrible fooleries of magic and religion. Only man behaves with such gratuitous folly. It is the price he has to pay for being intelligent but not, as yet, intelligent enough.
--Aldous Huxley, author

[RTP2003]

Testify, Sister Antigen!

No need to fear the weed, my bipolar friends.....just like other studies claiming Mary's a bad girl, it's a lie! Now stop slandering her you assholes!

[Guest]

I started off wanting to close all the programs in the world trust me, my daughter and family went through hell, if you only knew our story. What I learned through time though is I cannot instill my morals and values on other parents, I cannot tell them what to do and what not to do, I will be honest with them, I will offer suggestions of other strategies so as they can and will keep their child at home, but some and a lot of parents are hell bent that Residential is the answer, Docs, and others tell them this, so I need to make sure that they are well informed of their rights and their kids rights. If they are going to send their child I cannot stop them, I can tell them that the state of MA requires licensing and the standards that they have, I can tell them if intake has been frozen in a program, I can connect them with other parents as well. I can't stop them from sending their child in if that is what they choose, so I figure a better educated consumer brings better end results. Please don't get me or my intentions wrong, when you live through your child getting raped by a staff person, seeing kids go home in body bags, broken bones, miss medication, and other crap you have to make it better for the next child and family otherwise what kind of person would I be?
Andrea

[BuzzKill]

Well now - I don't know -
I think Timocela has a point.
I have spoken with several mental patients who felt like they went Quite Mad while trying pot. It can have a very unpleasant effect for some of these folks and it can be unpleasant enough to land some few of them on a mental ward. I have also known folks like Antigen's brother who seemed much better when stoned than when not. I imagan it depends on just what is wrong with the brain tro begin with.
I do honestly believe folks in general ought to leave the stuff alone. I have various reasons for thinking so.
But its just not true that there is any kind of addiction factor with marijuana.
Liken the stuff is not being addicted to it.[ This Message was edited by: BuzzKill on 2005-04-23 16:34 ]

[Deborah]

Andrea,
I'm really sorry your daughter had such a horrible experience!! And that she is free of that experience today.

The first time I read your letter I have to admit I laughed too. Not at you, but the idea that you might illicit a drop of caring in the staff for your child.

The idea that the program/staff might take your requests seriously - prepare her favorite meals with love, be patient with her waking up late and being oppositional sometimes, not to punish her for crying or for phone content, and that you might call several times a day to see how her day was going - really was laughable.

It totally goes against the majority of programs' methods.

I thought, this mother appears to really care about her child. WHY would she relinquish her to total strangers and then be so naieve as to think that they would have the same vested interest in her.

And lastly, how could turning your child over to strangers- that you would have to instruct on how to think well about your daughter- ever be the most loving decision you had made.

[Antigen]

Andrea, all I can say is that I've seen this play before. In some cases, the actors were not bad actors at all, but sincere, compassionate people who really wanted to bring about a kinder, gentler Program. The Seed didn't get it. Neither did Straight or LIFE or Growing Together or SAFE or Phoenix Institute or PFC or KIDS (by FAR) or KHK or others unknown.

You did a good thing by ridding Massachusetts of Desisto. Don't think or say that you shut them down, though. You didn't. No one can, so long as there are wild places and credulous marks. But you made Mas. a better commonwealth and educated a good many people in the process.

I'm not really out to shut down all residential facilities. I'm just out to encourage public dialogue and scrutiny. I do believe that will shut a lot of these places down. My heart does not bleed for them. But it's not my aim, either. I just want people to understand.

If you want a voluntary urine sample from me it'll have to be a taste test.
--Bumper Sticker

[Guest]

Oh I know I didn't shut Desisto down, it was a collaborative effort, but they are up and running elsewhere so they were just chased away, which in the end didn't accomplish much. UGH and I know where you are coming from - but we have to try if we don't then what good are we, or what good am I?
Andrea

[kellyadams]

Okay wow, this is completely surreal... I just googled my usual user name on forums (kcadams1980) looking for something I had written that was work-related and came upon this very old post here. Apparently my account of what I experienced at CCM has been widely distributed on the web and analyzed. I have absolutely no idea if any of the original posters will see this (amanda?), but I just couldn't read other people's interpretations of MY words/feelings and not respond.

Let me say first that when I wrote that story, I was in an extremely bad place. It's a long story, but it stemmed from the fact that when I was in CCM my parents and therapist, Garth, decided that my lifelong passion of political journalism would be "nonworking" for my "recovery." Keep in mind that I was almost 19 at the time and had spent most of my school years pursuing this goal. Oh yeah, and I wasn't allowed to go to Univ. of TX in Austin (the best public university in the state, IMO), despite my excellent grades, b/c my parents and Garth thought too many of my "non-working friends" attended. Okay. So, I ended up going to UT Arlington for no particular reason other than wanting to move out of my parents house, and I decided I would major in Anthropology. I had a major breakdown when the program brainwashing (I'll get to that point later) fell away and I felt completely dissacociated from any concept of who I "was." I ended up switching majors several times, finally settling on graphic design for no reason other than I took one class and was pretty good. When I graduatetd college, I moved back to Houston and got a job as a designer in an ad agency. I absolutely hated it. It's really hard to do something 8+ hrs a day that you were never really into in the first place. So I quit that job, fell into an extreme depressive episode (I was later diagnosed with bipolar, but that's another story) and finally began to "deal" with the feelings I had about the program. So yes, my account was pretty angry... I was very, very angry at that time - particularly b/c I was searching for some validation from my parents and got none. That can make a person pretty resentful. That is the context of my testimony commented on in this post.

At this point, the raw emotions associated with my program experience have dissapated somewhat. Once I became functional again after that severe depression, I discovered the social work master's program at the University of Houston and finally got back to something that was really "me." Lefty and all! Garth was an LCSW and honestly I don't know how he keeps his license. I could get into the details of our professional code of ethics but I won't.

[kellyadams]

Sorry, had to make a new post b/c the window started freaking out on me...

So here are the specific points made by Amanda (and others I suppose) about my story that I want to address.

1. The talk show appearance. I have never claimed that I was "forced" to appear on this show and defend the program. Quite the opposite! AT THAT TIME (right after I "graduated" CCM), I TRULY BELIEVED IN THE PROGRAM. It wasn't "fake." I actually believed everything I was saying AT THAT TIME. Once I figured out that there was no way I could leave CCM successfully (ie, not being put on a bus to Denver with no money and no way to contact any relatives in Houston that would've helped me) without graduating, my mind had a choice to make. Either resolve the cognitive dissonance by completely "buying in," or attempt to get by until my parents caved and remain miserable. I found it much easier to handle being in the program once I finally BELIEVED in it for real. I honestly believed that the program saved my life, and that if not for the program, I would be dead in a gutter. I BELIEVED the false/exaggerated stories I told about my past drug use because it "fit" my new concept of who I was in the program. So yes, Amanda, I "chose" to go on TV and sing the program's praises. But I did so because I had disconnected from reality so much that I actually believed what I was saying.

2. The seminars. This is something I feel very strongly about, especially now that I am an LCSW myself. THESE SEMINARS ARE DAMAGING, PERIOD. Please Amanda, tell me what therapeutic value came from Garth screaming in my face during a "process" that my grandfather was dead, and that he died knowng what a piece of shit I was? By the way, he told me the next day that my grandpa wasnt actually dead, he had been "mistaken." Please enlighten me about how it is helpful for a survivor of childhood sexual abuse to be physically held down by several peers and screamed at to "get up" because "he's on top of you again!" I have never read any professional literature that would condone such "treatment" for sexual abuse survivors. Any "good" that you or others felt you got out of these barbaric exercises is completely negated by the trauma inflicted on others. There was no choice involved here. Either you "get real" in the seminars or you don't level up, it's that simple. How is that a real choice?

[kellyadams]

again, with the interruption of a long post!

3. The time frame. Yes, it took me awhile to fully grasp my real feelings about the program. I was subjected to systematic, powerful messaging about who I was for 18 months - day in, day out, every minute. Your mind does not simply shake that kind of conditioning off in a few days when you're removed from the environment. It is a gradual process, starting in confusion, going to an eventual catharsis (when the feelings are at their peak), and finally settling into some kind of acceptance. In the "confusion" stage (while I was at UTA in college), I absolutely had PTSD. I dissacociated, I had recurrent nightmares, I was always looking for an "escape route," and I did horrible, shameful things that I NEVER would have done were it not for my psychological distress caused by the program. I won't tell you all what I did, it is that shameful to me still. I did those things because I had lost my "anchor" - since I had been stripped of my ability to be confident in my own instincts, I went through life nihilistically. Nothing mattered, nothing made sense, so why not put myself in danger over and over again?

4. Abuse at CCM. Yes there was abuse at CCM. Emotional abuse is abuse. "Take downs" of teenage girls by grown men who are not trained in proper restraint techniques are abuse. "Sitting" on someone is abuse. Confining people to stimulus free rooms (the ISO rooms) for hours, days, weeks at a time is abuse. I absolutely stand by my statements that I witnessed physical abuse at Cross Creek.

So that's about all for now. I have no idea if anyone will read this, but I had to put it out there. Part of me wishes I'd never written that stupid story, because it really pisses me off to read others' twisted interpretations of my experience. But oh well, too late now.

Kelly Adams
(kcadams1980)

[BuzzKill]

Hello Kelly - good to see how well your doing!

Do you know about the Turley law firm's case against WWASP? In case you don't and might like to contact them:

http://www.turleylaw.com/

[anythinganyone]

The CCM that the girls describe earlier in this thread are completely different from the CCM that I recall.