Author Topic: How many deaths have occured at Aspen Ed programs so far?  (Read 16168 times)

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Offline Anne Bonney

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How many deaths have occured at Aspen Ed programs so far?
« on: March 31, 2010, 04:29:05 PM »
Does anyone have a body count?

Does anyone know how many Aspen Ed programs have been closed due to either abuse or deaths?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Joel

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« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2010, 04:44:35 PM »
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Offline Oscar

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Re: How many deaths have occured at Aspen Ed programs so far?
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2010, 05:31:30 PM »
From our victim list pages:

1980's: 1 (SUWS - However before Aspen ownership)
2000-2004: 2 (Island View and Lonestar Expeditions)
2005-2009: 4 (SUWS, Aspen Achievement Academy, Youth care and Sagewalk)

They are not among the most deadly programs, but who is setting the numbers determing what kind of number it takes before the entire operation is judged as a failure.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: How many deaths have occured at Aspen Ed programs so far?
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2010, 05:46:35 PM »
Quote from: "Oscar"
From our victim list pages:

1980's: 1 (SUWS - However before Aspen ownership)
2000-2004: 2 (Island View and Lonestar Expeditions)
2005-2009: 4 (SUWS, Aspen Achievement Academy, Youth care and Sagewalk)

They are not among the most deadly programs, but who is setting the numbers determing what kind of number it takes before the entire operation is judged as a failure.

Thanks Oscar, So it looks like less than a child per year is lost.  Although, I feel one child is too many, we need to take a look at how this compares to other industries to see if the risk for children is high in this industry.  I think the numbers would show that programs are a safe alternative for children at risk.

Based on these numbers it is also easy to see that the effort should be placed on improvement of the industry and their procedures to continue to reduce the number to Zero and not on closing facilities unless they show a disregard for children safety.



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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Joel

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« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2010, 06:53:32 PM »
Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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Offline Whooter

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Re: How many deaths have occured at Aspen Ed programs so far?
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2010, 07:31:12 PM »
Quote from: "Joel"
Whooter we are discussing innocent children dying at Aspen programs.  You attempted to move the focus on Aspen to comparisons within the TTI industry.  Your response is indicative you failed to acknowledge there are serious problems at Aspen.  Are you willing to admit there are serious problems at Aspen programs?

 Everytime a child dies we need to treat it as a serious problem.  We had an innocent child die in a public school system in our state just last month.  We are seeing them die in programs and private institutions around the country.  We are seeing them die at home.

Aspen programs are not immune to this problem but are among the safest based on Oscars data.  

I think the main question is where is the best place to put the resources which would have the biggest effect in reducing our children’s risk of dying?  And how do we determine this and measure the outcome?



« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Joel

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« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2010, 07:35:34 PM »
Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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Offline Whooter

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Re: How many deaths have occured at Aspen Ed programs so far?
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2010, 08:06:14 PM »
Quote from: "Joel"
Are there serious problems at Aspen programs?  It is a simple question to answer Whooter.  I understand you sent your child there and are reluctant to expose negligence at Aspen programs.  This old game isn't funny anymore Whooter.

With Aspen Programs in General?  No I don’t believe there is.  Sagewalk is presently experiencing serious problems due to a death they had there last year.  Until root cause is determined then there will be uncertainty as to whether that program should move forward or not and I would suggest stopping operations until it is understood so that the proper procedural changes can be put into place or basic safety changes are made.  I think this should apply to any program, Aspen or otherwise, who experience a safety issue with the children.

I believe Aspen has one of the safest records if I am not mistaken.  Do you feel Aspen programs are among the safest or deadliest?  Do you base your belief on data?



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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Joel

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« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2010, 08:27:02 PM »
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Offline Whooter

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Re: How many deaths have occured at Aspen Ed programs so far?
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2010, 08:38:07 PM »
Quote from: "Joel"
2005-2009: 4 (SUWS, Aspen Achievement Academy, Youth care and Sagewalk) >  Sounds like Aspen programs are safe to me Whooter.  How ya' gonna spin it this time Whooter?

There are Aspen programs which are having serious problems, but taken all together Aspen facilities are among the most safe.  Thousands of kids die every year who are enrolled in the public school system which is many orders of magnitude larger than the TT industry as a whole.
So from a safety standpoint programs are much safer than the Public school system and Aspen (as a subset of the industry) is among the safest based on Oscars data.



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Offline Oscar

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Re: How many deaths have occured at Aspen Ed programs so far?
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2010, 02:05:07 AM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Thanks Oscar, So it looks like less than a child per year is lost.  Although, I feel one child is too many, we need to take a look at how this compares to other industries to see if the risk for children is high in this industry.  I think the numbers would show that programs are a safe alternative for children at risk.

Based on these numbers it is also easy to see that the effort should be placed on improvement of the industry and their procedures to continue to reduce the number to Zero and not on closing facilities unless they show a disregard for children safety.

...
You are somehow right. Children dies even when they are working or going to school.

However we have to look if a death can be prevented. When a school laboratory explode as it has happened or if a worker has an arm or head chopped off then the police is quickly replaced with people from our The Danish Working Environment Authority. Their only purpose in life are to investigate how the accident took place and to decide whether they have investigated such a death before and if it could have been prevented. They visit firms and schools unannounced to see if their guidelines are followed and huge fines are given to firms or schools, which fail to follow their guidelines.

In Denmark we have a goal which is zero deaths in relation with either work or school. Since we started to chart every death accidents in schools and workplaces have been reduced to 25% of the original number.

I believe that your country should have such a federal agency also. Why should a kid die in the field when his death is an exact copy of previous deaths? Should the medical staff not be able to stop sending a kid out in the desert without looking at if possible loss of income could put their job at risk?

It took most states about 20 years and a lot of death kids to learn what kind of restraints that kills. Some states have not learned the lesson yet and it is just a matter of time before we learn what kind of name which should be written on the gravestone.

I urge that some learn from each death. Once this death at Sagewalk is finished in the court system then who will take all the knowledge the sheriff office has learned and make it into a kind of law so the next death based on the same circumstances can be prevented in Oregon or all the other States? I don't understand why such agency has not been created already, if not by the state but then by the insurance companies. They end up paying big time everytime some school, program or firm cause a death by simple neglect.

Personally I believe that most deaths in Aspen's program could have been prevented the last 10 years. They were not sudden deaths. There were warning signs hours before, which were ignored.
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Offline wdtony

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Re: How many deaths have occured at Aspen Ed programs so far?
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2010, 05:12:41 AM »
Involuntary manslaughter is the unlawful killing of a human being without malice aforethought. It is distinguished from voluntary manslaughter by the absence of intention. It is normally divided into two categories; constructive manslaughter and criminally negligent manslaughter.

Criminally negligent manslaughter: It occurs where death results from serious negligence, or, in some jurisdictions, serious recklessness. A high degree of negligence is required to warrant criminal liability. A related concept is that of wilful blindness, which is where a defendant intentionally puts himself in a position where he will be unaware of facts which would render him liable.

Wilful blindness? Putting yourself in a position where he will be unaware of facts which would render him liable?..... whoever wrote that must have dealt with these programs in the past because that is probably an unwritten qualification of the TTI "program director"!

Also, having knowledge that kids die in these programs and still sending them out into the wild without properly trained staff and protocols seems to be a strong argument for "criminal negligence" by the program administration, aka whoever is in charge and getting paid.

Punishments for manslaughter vary from state to state but usually include several years of prison time. I would say this is a fair estimation "in general' of what crimes have been committed within this industry and prison time should curb the rate of deaths in programs.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: How many deaths have occured at Aspen Ed programs so far?
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2010, 08:38:09 AM »
Quote from: "Oscar"
Quote from: "Whooter"
Thanks Oscar, So it looks like less than a child per year is lost.  Although, I feel one child is too many, we need to take a look at how this compares to other industries to see if the risk for children is high in this industry.  I think the numbers would show that programs are a safe alternative for children at risk.

Based on these numbers it is also easy to see that the effort should be placed on improvement of the industry and their procedures to continue to reduce the number to Zero and not on closing facilities unless they show a disregard for children safety.

...
You are somehow right. Children dies even when they are working or going to school.

However we have to look if a death can be prevented. When a school laboratory explode as it has happened or if a worker has an arm or head chopped off then the police is quickly replaced with people from our The Danish Working Environment Authority. Their only purpose in life are to investigate how the accident took place and to decide whether they have investigated such a death before and if it could have been prevented. They visit firms and schools unannounced to see if their guidelines are followed and huge fines are given to firms or schools, which fail to follow their guidelines.

In Denmark we have a goal which is zero deaths in relation with either work or school. Since we started to chart every death accidents in schools and workplaces have been reduced to 25% of the original number.

I believe that your country should have such a federal agency also. Why should a kid die in the field when his death is an exact copy of previous deaths? Should the medical staff not be able to stop sending a kid out in the desert without looking at if possible loss of income could put their job at risk?

It took most states about 20 years and a lot of death kids to learn what kind of restraints that kills. Some states have not learned the lesson yet and it is just a matter of time before we learn what kind of name which should be written on the gravestone.

I urge that some learn from each death. Once this death at Sagewalk is finished in the court system then who will take all the knowledge the sheriff office has learned and make it into a kind of law so the next death based on the same circumstances can be prevented in Oregon or all the other States? I don't understand why such agency has not been created already, if not by the state but then by the insurance companies. They end up paying big time everytime some school, program or firm cause a death by simple neglect.

Personally I believe that most deaths in Aspen's program could have been prevented the last 10 years. They were not sudden deaths. There were warning signs hours before, which were ignored.




I agree with you 100%, prevention is the key.  The best thing we can do is try to determine root cause and learn from it.  We go thru this everytime on fornits.  No one ever seems to be interested in determining cause.  The Anne Bonneys and auntieEms of the world who just want to stand on the sidelines,  point the finger of blame and put someone in jail does nothing to help the next child.  They are merely trying to satisfy their selfish agenda and personal feelings.

If people like myself push for answers it pisses people off here and they perceive my actions as being proprogram or defending the programs point of view.  Its like no one wants to know how this happened to this child.  Many focus on “homicide” vs "Man Slaughter" or calling people liars vs. learning the cause of the childs death, gaining understanding and helping others.  If we can determine "one" change in the procedure as a result of this boys death, which we could implement in the other existing programs that would save a life, then that would be worth fighting for and worth discussing.  But each time a child dies fornits, unfortunately, takes on a mob mentality and I am not sure why they do this versus trying to help the next child.

Should field operators be trained differently?  Should there be supplemental or special training off site which will help them to differentiate between behavior issues and medical issues?  Should home base be called prior to 911 in every case?  At what point could have this childs life been saved?  What was missed?  These are some of the questions we should be seeking answers to.  Let the police determine which person was negligent and prosecute them if needed.  We should be focused on the children.

If people can put a little bit more effort into trying to find out how this happens, listening to the investigation results all the kids would be much better off, in my opinion.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Troll Control

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Re: How many deaths have occured at Aspen Ed programs so far?
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2010, 08:46:39 AM »
What's interesting to me is that Aspen programs are experiencing more deaths now than in previous years.  This invalidates the argument that "programs are evolving, becoming more safe and becoming more clinical."  That's nonsense and marketing spin.  

Two Aspen Ed programs were shuttered last year in Oregon alone for "systematic child abuse and neglect."So, the abuse is systemic at Aspen Ed.  This systemic abuse discovered by authorities in Oregon explains the sharp increase in the death rate at Aspen Ed.  The more the kids are abused and neglected, the more will die.  This is pretty obvious from the upward trend of child deaths at Aspen Ed.

Program shills would love readers to believe "programs are improving" but the data shows they are actually worsening at Aspen Ed as staff cutbacks, salary reductions and lowered standards fill the payroll with dangerous, uneducated, untrained staff.  No, Aspen Ed is on the skids, not on the rise.
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