Author Topic: Bye Bye Mount Bachelor Academy  (Read 7384 times)

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Offline RMA Survivor

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Bye Bye Mount Bachelor Academy
« on: November 04, 2009, 11:39:20 PM »
Oregon shut it down!

http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/inde ... om_sc.html

One down, many to go.
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Offline Ursus

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State suspends license from central Oregon school...
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2009, 10:16:30 AM »
That article copied out for posterity's sake:

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State suspends license from central Oregon school for troubled teens
By Michelle Cole, The Oregonian
November 03, 2009, 10:30PM


State officials have told parents to remove their children from a central Oregon boarding school after investigators found students were subject to inappropriate sexual role-play, public humiliation and physical deprivation.

Following a seven-month investigation, the Oregon Department of Human Services has temporarily suspended Mount Bachelor Academy's license. Investigators found nine substantiated allegations of child abuse and neglect as well as numerous licensing violations.

Their conclusion: "There are conditions present that pose a serious danger to child safety."

The private school caters to troubled teens 14 to 17 1/2 years old. It has operated near Prineville for more than 20 years, drawing students from all over the world. Tuition runs $6,400 a month, and students typically stay 14 to 16 months.

State officials released a summary of the investigation Tuesday in response to a public records request from The Oregonian, but they refused to respond to questions about the school.

The summary chronicles incidents dating from 2007 to this year. They involved five students and often centered on the "emotional growth" workshops required of every student. The report says what those five students experienced was "substantially consistent" with the experiences of all teens in the program.

State investigators found students were required to engage in sexualized role-play and other humiliating activities, such as re-enacting past abuse, in front of staff and peers. Students were deprived of sleep or use of the bathroom.

According to investigators, discipline at the school included so-called "bans" requiring students to go a week or longer without being allowed to talk, touch or look at others.

Sharon Bitz, Mount Bachelor's executive director, did not return phone calls from The Oregonian on Tuesday. Interviewed in April, soon after the investigation started, Bitz called the allegations groundless and said the school has helped more than 2,000 students since it opened in 1988.

It's not clear how many students were at the school this week. It is licensed for up to 125 students. State records show 88 students and 77 staff were there in March.

Several former students say the state's findings mirror their experiences.

At the same time, other former students and parents say Mount Bachelor helped change young lives.

Jim Bianchin's son attended the school from 2005 to 2007.

"They helped open his eyes to a lot of destructive behaviors that he had," Bianchin of Redding, Calif., said Tuesday. "At no time did we observe or hear of any inappropriate behavior or policies."

The state has given Mount Bachelor 90 days to correct a list of violations or see its license permanently revoked.

In the meantime, parents with children at the school are scrambling.

"I'm in shock," said Nancy Bishop, who has a 14-year-old daughter at Mount Bachelor.

Bishop lives in Southern California and said she received the call from Oregon officials at 6 p.m. Monday telling her she had to make arrangements to get her daughter. Bishop didn't know about the ongoing investigation.

Before catching a plane early Tuesday, Bishop asked whether the state would make counselors or others available to help parents and students. The answer was no.

"I feel like they pulled the rug out from us," she said. "The last thing these kids need is to be yanked around."

--Michelle Cole


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Offline Ursus

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Re: Bye Bye Mount Bachelor Academy
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2009, 10:29:04 AM »
Comments on the above article, "State suspends license from central Oregon school for troubled teens":


Posted by jakeandrex November 04, 2009, 12:24AM
    i was at MBA in the 90s. That all sounds like the school i went to. it wasn't all bad by any means but i also still have nightmares about the place sometimes. part of what is most confusing is making sense of that. it was where i grew up, as much as anything else, it was my childhood. it was messed up, but i learned a lot. i don't know what other alumni think but my feeling is, the law's the law. i mean, what may not have harmed me may have been traumatic for someone else. and considering what some of my peers had already been through before going there--a lot of rough histories of abuse and neglect, things i never had imagined before i got there--i think it's important that schools take care not to do anything to harm the kids. or, i guess i feel like, no matter what the kids' histories are, the school should take care to do no harm, but ESPECIALLY with kids who have histories of abuse. anyway i'm glad the law is looking out and something came of this.
Posted by anonymousgraduate November 04, 2009, 12:21PM
    i went to mba. in my experience most of the staff there, the ones responsible for these abuses, were trying to help. if what was going on was abuse it was out of pride and ignorance, not cruelty. intent matters. none of the staff were getting rich, most of them were over-worked, several made helping kids their life work. i definitely saw these abuses go down in the lifesteps and can also say that the staff responsible for them were compassionate and loving people, just misguided i guess. i hope that understanding is reflected in any related criminal investigations. and that the company and CEOs behind mba are held accountable too. and that someone investigates how this went on for so long, the school was doing ALL of these things long before Sharon Bitz arrived
Posted by fingaroll November 04, 2009, 1:29PM
    The action that the DHS took is extremely disruptive to the lives of the students and the teachers at this school. The question that needs to be asked is why they could not have taken a less severe disciplinary action?

    You look at some of the things that they call out, like not letting students go to the bathroom... now don't you think that most high school football coaches can be just as "abusive" to their players?

    The reenacting of past abuse... could that also be construed as part of the therapeutic process?

    The sexualized role play... whatever exactly that is. But even it were bad, might this have just been limited to one teacher, might a particular student have lent an less than objective point of view?

    Somebody is on a witch hunt here. This business of rehabilitating these problem students is not cut and dry, latitude is required, let's get real here. Now maybe the school crossed the line... and if so, I say a handslap is what is required, not a school closure.
Posted by anonymousgraduate November 04, 2009, 3:00PM
    "The sexualized role play... whatever exactly that is. But even it were bad, might this have just been limited to one teacher, might a particular student have lent an less than objective point of view? "

    It was a regular thing when I was there, years before these allegations.
Posted by shakelmakin November 04, 2009, 3:02PM
    In my experience, almost anyone who is in the business of rehabilitating troubled teens, is in it for the power and the feeling of control that is lacking in their personal lives. It does not surprise me at all that this happened.
Posted by anonymousgraduate November 04, 2009, 3:11PM
    "The sexualized role play... whatever exactly that is. But even it were bad, might this have just been limited to one teacher, might a particular student have lent an less than objective point of view? "

    It was a regular thing when I was there, years before these allegations.
Posted by Jfather November 04, 2009, 8:00PM
    Imagine a lawsuit filed by DHS or another government agency on behalf of a 16 year old. In it the government alleges that after deciding to send their child to a therapeutic boarding school, the parents spent only two days investigating the over 500 therapeutic boarding schools in the U.S (yielding about 6 minutes per school if no sleep break was taken.) Further, the parents did not even go to visit the school where their child would be boarded and taught for a period of twelve to twenty months. The argument is made that to find a suitable fit, more time was needed to identify the most appropriate school, contact it, make arrangements for a visit and determine the mutual suitability of the child and the school. The suit contends that the parents were neglectful by not taking the careful steps in making such a momentus decision, and a bad decision was made.

    I know of no such suit, but I would not be surprised if you found one somewhere in our legal system.

    My real point is that DHS is forcing that same scenario on the parents of students at Mt. Bachelor Acadamy. After seven months of investigation DHS began calling parents on Monday night (Nov 2) advising them that they had to remove their children from the school within 48 hours. DHS seemed in no hurry to conclude its investigation. What's the hurry now? Where is imminent danger?

    The imposed rush is likely to force some bad decisions on the 77 students who must abandon their school. Further it is already disrupting the lives of their parents who have to suspend their home and work lives to remake a difficult decision within an unreasonable deadline. To make matters worse, this artificial time limit is imposing drama and trauma on the students and family who are more vulnerable than most.

    MBA students are at a therapeutic boarding school for a reason. Main stream high school and living at home was not working and these children were in jeopardy at home. Most had stopped cooperating and participating in therapy sessions. Parents made the difficult choice of deciding to send their children to a therapeutic boarding school. Generally, that meant speaking with professionals such as psychologists, psychiatrists, educational consultants, social workers and teachers. Then, there was a process of narrowing the choices from the 500+ such schools in the U.S. to some short list of possible fits. Then there was the deep investigation stage where parents contacted the schools, asked a battery of questions, spoke with personnel at the school, asked for and then called references. Then, there was a new short list and the parents visited one or more schools on that list. Based on that research, the parents made one of the most difficult choices parents can make, they picked a boarding school where their child would be helped and taught for the up to two years. This was a decision that required calm deliberation after all the facts were in and despite all the work, there was no comfort in the decision. Sometimes the right thing to do merely offers comfort in the long run when you realize you saved someone's life.

    That is how almost all of the current students at MBA got there. When the considerable dust clears at the end of this weekend, you can look at the current locations of each of those former MBA students and see that they are in new schools, scattered around the U.S. The new school choices were not the result of calm deliberation. They were the result of panic imposed by the DHS. The new schools were not carefully studied over a week or two, they were likely studied over a rushed and emotional small part of one day. There was no visit before the sign up. Few, if any of the responsible steps of choosing a school were allowed because DHS set an unreasonable deadline. DHS is not protecting these students, it is harming them with this deadline.

    Was the time limit of 48 hours to get out of Prineville reasonable? It doesn't appear so. This investigation began in March and started with DHS' issuance of a written order to the parents advising them to make immediate plans to move their children away from MBA. Shortly after it was transmitted to parents it was rescinded. These are not the actions of a properly professional office. Since then the DHS has investigated the school and it claims to have found violations relating back to 2007. It has also included some claims from this year of violations that parents and others were aware of last June. What is missing here is what has transpired since June that would give the DHS a justification for giving the parents so little time to make a critical decision. There is nothing in its published background report suggesting urgency. Most of the problems DHS knew of months ago when they were allowing MBA to stay open. If DHS determined that MBA could stay open during the pending investigation, then again, why the immediate evacuation when the background report was issued. Short of immediately busing the children away from the school itself, DHS's order is about as severe as it could be.

    As a result of this order, kids are being removed from friends, teachers and mentors without warning. They are being moved to new places without any explanation other than that their current school is found to be in violation by the State. Some kids are about to take SAT/ACT college entrance exams. Some are about to graduate. Almost all are in the midst of an academic semester. This move will disrupt their academics and probably their therapies. Emotional distress is being caused by DHS. I thought DHS mission was to lessen or prevent this type of stress.

    I am not debating the claims made DHS in its background report. It is folly to debate without knowing the facts. The focus is on the unnecessary collateral damage of closing the school so quickly after it has been allowed to stay open during a long investigation. What damage would a two week deadline have done? Any closure would do damage, but this type appears to be arbitrary and capricious and as some have said DHS' overreaction to the death of student at a Oregon wilderness program (owned by MBA's parent company) earlier this year. Unless there is some compelling reason for immediate closure, DHS is likely doing more damage to more people with its immediate evacuation order than it is claiming that MBA did.

    Post script. Apparently the State agreed, perhaps today, to an extra week to transfer the children. As of late last night none of the many parents knew of this and this evening was the end of the 48 hour deadline. Extending the deadline now may be helpful to a very few but responsible parents were forced to act and make decisions already. This action did not diminish the damage done by DHS to the students, it highlights DHS' lack of professionalism.

    Good luck to the kids and parents affected by DHS' actions.

    JF
Posted by anonymousgraduate November 05, 2009, 12:27PM
    Sharon Bitz's latest statement, "We are told that the state's order to suspend operations at Mount Bachelor was largely based on a 200-page report that we still have not been given. However, from what we read in the media, it appears that the report includes allegations that date back as far as 10 to 12 years, many of which were based on a prior treatment process that was overhauled in 2002."

    What? The school opened in 1988. So they're like, "Ok, we were abusing kids for 14 years, but we've stopped"?

    Who was held responsible for that? Wasn't Sharon Bitz the director in 2002?
Posted by ECockriel November 05, 2009, 12:59PM
    As the parent of an alumnus, I cannot believe what is happening with Mount Bachelor Academy. My daughter is a 1993 graduate of MBA. This school rescued not only her, but the whole family. Yes, the program is difficult. It is not a resort for troubled rich kids, it is an opportunity to find the truth in yourself through an intense but supportive program. She learned and lived things at MBA that take most adults a lifetime to experience. The bonds she has with faculty and students continue. I wish ALL young people could have this kind of opportunity. I will always be indebted to the staff at MBA for their unflagging dedication to their students and their love, patience and support of the students and their families.

    The DHS needs to understand that this is an ALTERNATIVE program. Parents made the decision to enroll their children here because traditional therapies...what the DHS is familiar with.....were failing them. Yes, it is an unbelievably hard decision to turn your child over to a boarding school, but once done, the parents and staff must stand together for the sake of the students. The program is grueling work and most of these kids are master manipulators and will say anything to try to get out of it. As has been stated over and over, it is not until well into the program or after graduation, or maybe not for some time after graduation that the student fully appreciates what has taken place, the tools they have learned to help them throughout their lives, and the real friendships that enrich them.

    Maybe the investigation will wake up everyone to do a better job, but let the families decide if their student should stay or go. Disrupting the continuum of the program, especially in this haste, will, in my opinion, do incredible harm. If you have not been personally involved with this program, you cannot understand how it all works together toward a positive end.

    MBA faculty and staff have my support and love always, my eternal indebtedness for giving me back a healthy and productive young lady. I am here for you, in any capacity, to help resolve this. I pray that those with power will come to a reasonable conclusion and let this amazing school continue. There are so many who desperately need it.
Posted by anonymousgraduate November 05, 2009, 3:45PM
    I am glad to hear your daughter thrived there. But that doesn't mean what she went through wasn't abuse and couldn't've been harmful to someone else.

    But who are these people that were overseeing this abusive "prior treatment process that was overhauled in 2002"? Have they been working at MBA since? Are they still working with kids?

    And was any of that reported? All school employees are required by law to report any abuse they have reasonable cause to suspect.
Posted by anonymousgraduate November 05, 2009, 3:51PM
    I'm referring to this statement from the school:
http://www.ktvz.com/global/story.asp?s=11438297[/list]
Posted by MBACHANGEDME November 05, 2009, 8:56PM
    I have been a student at MBA since March 2009. i came to MBA with a serious addiction to Narcotics. I was also involved in other illegal activities. I was an unhappy 17 year old who had no relationship with my father and his wife, and i was an excellent manipulator, i also suffered from severe anxiety and depression.

    After leaving MBA Tuesday night the 3rd of November my life took a serious change. I was leaving the friends that i had lived with for the past 7 months. It was harder to leave than it was to be enrolled at MBA.

    During The famous "LifeSteps" I never felt unsafe or violated. I in fact felt great growth from this specific program.

    I have developed lifelong relationships with many of the student and all of the staff.
    I feel that MBA changed my life, i met some of the truest friends i have had my entire life, i discovered sobriety, excelled academically for the first time, and experienced true happiness again.

    The allegations that are being stated against the school are false Bullshit. They are quoted from people that are brainless idiots who will continue to fail for their entire life. These people that complain of the program are un-fixable and will always remain that way.
Posted by 4blow November 05, 2009, 9:55PM
    I agree the pocess to remove all the students and suspend the schools license is questionable. Is someone on a mission? The investigation began a long time ago BUT now after months and months it is decided all students need to be removed within a short period of time.
    If it is believed any of the students were/are in 'any' jeopardy of abuse why did they wait so long?
    If what DHS is now calling abuse was not immediately stopped how do they justify such a drastic step now? Would you not remove students/teens immediately "if" there was even the slightest suspicion of abuse taking place?
    This school is an alternative to mainstream treatment. It is what some would say the last hope for their child.
    DHS - offer the training, give the school guidance - - - but our troubled teens already do not have enough treatment options or placements available to them. I would venture to say you - DHS would not step up and offer them the support, placement, treatment and services they need.
    I hope the school overcomes this difficulty and is able to work on other future successes.


    allowed to continue during their so called investigation why while the same type of practice DHS is calling abuse was taking place then
Posted by Brian November 06, 2009, 4:13AM
    Regarding the very legitimate question that I have now seen for the second time, why now?

    The best way to explain is to use a family as an example. Say a parent regularly punches their kid in the face when they misbehave. A teacher calls in the complaint, and CPS is brought in. During the investigation the parents says that their kid is troubled and that punching them in the face is the only way they know how to keep in line. This is obviously child abuse, but because it's now practice in the Child Welfare system to try to keep families together, the agency works with the family to identify different ways to appropriately discipline their child. They work with the family for several months and the parent tells the agency they've figured out a new way to discipline their child, using an open hand slap across the face three times to get the same effect. The agency tells the parent this is still abuse. The parent goes ahead and does it anyway. At this point, the agency views the parent as incorrigible and proceeds to remove the child.

    DHS gave MBA a chance to come up with a corrective action plan, and their action plan was doing the same things that they had done before that were considered abuse under a different name. DHS called them on it and correctly viewed MBA as not rehabilitable.

    DHS found the emotional growth cirricullum (whether you call it Lifesteps, Transitions, Propheets or anything else) in itself abusive and inappropriate treatment for the youth that MBA serves. If you understand the history of MBA, you realized this is what the entire treatment program is founded on. MBA can give up Lifesteps no more than AA can give up their weekly meetings. It's the core of the program.

    There you have it. For the last 20 years, MBA has been systematically abusing kids (generally with good intentions) in the name of therapy (although only recently has it been understood as abuse as we begin to understand the long term effects of trauma). DHS came in and gave them a chance to change their program, MBA wouldn't do it, and DHS shut them down.

    There are risk assessments and danger assessments. Keeping kids at MBA during the investigation may have been considered an acceptable risk if MBA had been willing to change their program. Once it became clear that they wouldn't, that acceptable risk over time without change becomes immediate danger. As in, it's only a matter of time before someone really gets hurt, and they had to act.

    As for 48 hours vs. a week. I don't have any answers there. When they usually make these closures most of the kids are in foster care. The may not have appreciated the issues of the parent-choice residential treatment industry regarding parents who would send their kids to another program after being told that the program that they just sent their kids to was guilty of 8 counts of child abuse. They may have just assumed the parents would obviously take them home.


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Offline Troll Control

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Re: Bye Bye Mount Bachelor Academy
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2009, 10:57:13 AM »
Amazing.  This poster, "JF," is advocating allowing the continued abuse of these kids becaue the alternative might be worse?  This is ridiculous.  We already know for a fact that the kids ARE being abused and neglected and "JF" wants that to continue.  

These program parents are some really sick fuckers.  "Well, sure, yeah, I know my daughter was re-enacting her rape by performing simulated oral sex on a staffer and giving him lapdances while he screamed at her that she was a whore and a slut, but if they force me to take her out of that abuse, it might disrupt my work or homelife.  I'd prefer she continue to be abused until it's convenient for me to do something about it later."

"JF":  FUCK YOU.  YOU ARE A SCUMBAG.
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Offline wild thing

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Re: Bye Bye Mount Bachelor Academy
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2009, 02:20:01 PM »
"The action that the DHS took is extremely disruptive to the lives of the students and the teachers at this school. The question that needs to be asked is why they could not have taken a less severe disciplinary action?

You look at some of the things that they call out, like not letting students go to the bathroom... now don't you think that most high school football coaches can be just as "abusive" to their players?

The reenacting of past abuse... could that also be construed as part of the therapeutic process?

The sexualized role play... whatever exactly that is. But even it were bad, might this have just been limited to one teacher, might a particular student have lent an less than objective point of view?

Somebody is on a witch hunt here. This business of rehabilitating these problem students is not cut and dry, latitude is required, let's get real here. Now maybe the school crossed the line... and if so, I say a handslap is what is required, not a school closure."

Oh come on!!!!the "teachers" at this school?  How many had actual teaching credentials?  Further, I do not know about Oregon, but in California it is illegal to not allow a student to use the bathroom.  It is also illegal, per the Ed. Code to use a physical punishment or anything else that might humiliate a student. It's illegal because of the damage it does to the child! How perverse and for what benefit would it be for a group of non-licensed adults to encourage a former rape victim to act in a sexual manner as part of pyschodrama?  Maybe the parents of "problem" students might want to try parenting and local assistance rather than shipping the kids off.... I deal with "problem" students all day...I work in public school as a special education teacher.    I allow my students to use the restroom when they ask.  I also worked in one of these so called "therapeutic" schools and bottom line, it was all about the almighty dollar, power and control, and in the end, nothing more. I am sure there are so decent programs out there somewhere, but these corporate run, mismanaged, poorly staff facilities are not among them.
A handslap for 11 counts of child abuse!  Would you feel the same way if someone abused your child, or yourself to the the tune of 11 counts and their hands were slapped?
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Re: Bye Bye Mount Bachelor Academy
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2009, 02:44:39 PM »
Yes, there were many counts of abuse cited, but the key takeaway here is that the authorities said outright that these incidents are a representative sample and that these same abuses happened to EVERY CHILD AT MBA.  The entire pop sheet was systematically abused and neglected.  ALL of them according to DHS.
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Offline joethebadass

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Re: Bye Bye Mount Bachelor Academy
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2009, 10:16:29 PM »
I can personally attest to having seen them make a girl dress up in a french maid costume and give lap dances to guys. Sharon Bitz denied that it ever happened, which makes her not only a child abuser but a liar as well.
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Re: Bye Bye Mount Bachelor Academy
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2009, 01:36:56 PM »
Do you have any video of that? I need a good fap.
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Re: Bye Bye Mount Bachelor Academy
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2009, 03:17:16 PM »
Is Sharon Bitz married to Alex Bitz of the former CEDU Running Springs?  he used to be married to Julie, who was a sweetheart but got annihilated by Alex and the power staff for basically being "too sweet" and not fully on board. It was awful. I will never forget a rap where Julie was decimated by one of the bullies in the school with the cheers of a power staff.  Alex treated her like a lesser being the more he was brainwashed.
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Offline wild thing

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Re: Bye Bye Mount Bachelor Academy
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2009, 03:40:24 PM »
It was before my time, but I believe they both came from CEDU, Running Springs.  I am absolutely thrilled that another one of these abusive, money for pain profiteers has bitten the dust.  I hope this is a trend.
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Re: Bye Bye Mount Bachelor Academy
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2009, 03:52:19 PM »
Closing the programs isnt going to effect anything in my opinion.  There will still be the same number of at-risk youth with parents standing in line money in hand.  Do you think they will be turned away?  The other programs will need to absorb the kids and add more beds.
Its like taking a drug dealer off the street.  It doesnt reduce the amount of drugs or the number of people needing drugs.  It has zero impact because someone else is always willing to step up.  The only thing we can hope for is the new programs which pop up are less abusive and/or they figure out how to regulate them.
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Re: Bye Bye Mount Bachelor Academy
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2009, 04:24:02 PM »
"Hope for less abuse"?  Are you fucking CRAZY?  ANY facility abusing children, like all Aspen facilities, should be shut down REGARDLESS of DEMAND.  That's NUTS, Whooter!
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Re: Bye Bye Mount Bachelor Academy
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2009, 04:40:23 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
"Hope for less abuse"?  Are you fucking CRAZY?  ANY facility abusing children, like all Aspen facilities, should be shut down REGARDLESS of DEMAND.  That's NUTS, Whooter!
Less abuse from an industry perspective.  If a particular staff member is abusive then he/she should be fired.  If the specific program is abusive then it should be shut down.  The entire industry cannot be free from abuse the same as our public school system cannot free itself from being abusive.  The best we can hope for is to reduce the instance of abuse and to keep working to reduce it further each year thru education, transparency and awareness.
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Re: Bye Bye Mount Bachelor Academy
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2009, 05:23:48 PM »
We agree.  Since Aspen's program has been identified as child abuse and they run the same program at all of their facilities, all Aspen facilities should be shut down to make room for legitimate people and businesses to help the kids.

Aspen has been legally revealed as a fraud by the state of Oregon and also by its own admission in court that nothing it does is treatment or therapy.  Just shut them all down and get it done quickly so no more kids are raped, killed or abused at Aspen facilities.  You can't split the baby here.  Aspen as a whole needs to be shut down.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Bye Bye Mount Bachelor Academy
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2009, 06:43:46 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
We agree.  Since Aspen's program has been identified as child abuse and they run the same program at all of their facilities, all Aspen facilities should be shut down to make room for legitimate people and businesses to help the kids.

Aspen has been legally revealed as a fraud by the state of Oregon and also by its own admission in court that nothing it does is treatment or therapy.  Just shut them all down and get it done quickly so no more kids are raped, killed or abused at Aspen facilities.  You can't split the baby here.  Aspen as a whole needs to be shut down.

I read back through the posts and didnt see where it was established that the same program is run at all of Aspens facilities.  How do you know this? The state of Oregon did not make this statement.  If you can establish this then I would agree with you.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »