Author Topic: New PV VIDEO Don't BELIEVE the HYPE!  (Read 8622 times)

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Offline TheWho

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New PV VIDEO Don't BELIEVE the HYPE!
« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2007, 02:34:40 PM »
Quote
We're putting together a bright, clear and concise picture for you.


Thank you, it will be like a breath of fresh air... let me know when you post it.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: ???
« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2007, 02:35:39 PM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Many posters here on fornits have stretched the term to include kids who don’t have access to a phone 24/7.  The term "abuse" could be defined as not having a choice of what to eat for dinner or being assigned to clean the cafeteria etc.


There you go again, putting your own spin on things.  What we object to is the kind of isolation that programs practice in the sense that they remove all system of checks and balances from the individual.  The only value system they are exposed to is program values.   Again, its akin to the Stanford Prison Experiment on many levels.  Combine the isolation with the confrontational, dehumanizing techniques that are used and its a recipe for disaster.  The sense of self is lost to group think.  Once you've been broken, you're an easy mark.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline TheWho

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Re: ???
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2007, 02:43:59 PM »
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Many posters here on fornits have stretched the term to include kids who don’t have access to a phone 24/7.  The term "abuse" could be defined as not having a choice of what to eat for dinner or being assigned to clean the cafeteria etc.

There you go again, putting your own spin on things.  What we object to is the kind of isolation that programs practice in the sense that they remove all system of checks and balances from the individual.  The only value system they are exposed to is program values.   Again, its akin to the Stanford Prison Experiment on many levels.  Combine the isolation with the confrontational, dehumanizing techniques that are used and its a recipe for disaster.  The sense of self is lost to group think.  Once you've been broken, you're an easy mark.


Not all programs are the same, your experience is with one program decades ago, there is nothing dehumanizing about most of these programs.

The Stanford Prison Experiment was flawed from the beginning.  The guards admitted that they were role playing and acting like they thought they were suppose to act by being exposed to movies like "Cool hand like" and other prison movies.  They were given sticks and mirrored glasses.  The inmates staged a hunger strike because that is what was popular at the time.  Don’t get me wrong there were some interesting outcomes that were noted and still talked about even today, but the study isn’t anything to hang your hat on.



...
« Last Edit: November 13, 2007, 02:45:23 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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New PV VIDEO Don't BELIEVE the HYPE!
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2007, 02:44:27 PM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote
We're putting together a bright, clear and concise picture for you.

Thank you, it will be like a breath of fresh air... let me know when you post it.



...


It won't be here, Who - oh, no a different venue altogether.
 :D

Preach, Anne!  Who accuses everyone of exaggerating, I accuse him of minimizing.  When it comes to programs, he has no clue about the goings-on.  Ask him some questions, his ignorance will blaze like God's burning bush.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: ???
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2007, 02:47:28 PM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Many posters here on fornits have stretched the term to include kids who don’t have access to a phone 24/7.  The term "abuse" could be defined as not having a choice of what to eat for dinner or being assigned to clean the cafeteria etc.

There you go again, putting your own spin on things.  What we object to is the kind of isolation that programs practice in the sense that they remove all system of checks and balances from the individual.  The only value system they are exposed to is program values.   Again, its akin to the Stanford Prison Experiment on many levels.  Combine the isolation with the confrontational, dehumanizing techniques that are used and its a recipe for disaster.  The sense of self is lost to group think.  Once you've been broken, you're an easy mark.

Not all programs are the same, your experience is with one program decades ago, there is nothing dehumanizing about most of these programs.

The Stanford Prison Experiment was flawed from the beginning.  The guards admitted that they were role playing and acting like they thought they were suppose to act by being exposed to movies like "Cool hand like" and other prison movies.  They were given sticks and mirrored glasses.  The inmates staged a hunger strict because that is what was popular at the time.  Don’t get me wrong there were some interesting outcomes that were noted and still talked about even today, but the study isn’t anything to hang your hat on.



...



Spoken like a true outsider.  You've never been exposed to the kind of groupthink and mindrape that Aspen and the others practice.  I'm getting ready to leave for the day so I hope my anon friend will pull up some of the postings about the LGAT-like seminars.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.  That's what these places have.  Abuse is almost inevitable.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Anne Bonney

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New PV VIDEO Don't BELIEVE the HYPE!
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2007, 02:48:47 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote
We're putting together a bright, clear and concise picture for you.

Thank you, it will be like a breath of fresh air... let me know when you post it.



...

It won't be here, Who - oh, no a different venue altogether.
 :D

Preach, Anne!  Who accuses everyone of exaggerating, I accuse him of minimizing.  When it comes to programs, he has no clue about the goings-on.  Ask him some questions, his ignorance will blaze like God's burning bush.



Can I get an Amen?!
 :rofl:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline TheWho

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New PV VIDEO Don't BELIEVE the HYPE!
« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2007, 02:58:34 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote
We're putting together a bright, clear and concise picture for you.

Thank you, it will be like a breath of fresh air... let me know when you post it.



...

It won't be here, Who - oh, no a different venue altogether.

Well try to rememer to provide a link then


Quote
Preach, Anne!  Who accuses everyone of exaggerating, I accuse him of minimizing.  When it comes to programs, he has no clue about the goings-on. Ask him some questions, his ignorance will blaze like God's burning bush.



Well thats my point, Ha,Ha,Ha, if fornits provided more accurate information about the goings -on inside of many of these programs, myself and many other parents would be able to better assess whether or not it is a good place for their child.  As it stands now that information just isnt happening.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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New PV VIDEO Don't BELIEVE the HYPE!
« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2007, 03:11:25 PM »
Quote from: TheWho

Well try to rememer to provide a link then
Quote


Not everything happens on the internet!  

This Who guy?  It seems like he's in the wrong place or something.  What does he want?  Is he playing devil's advocate, or is he simply an asshole?

If all program experiences are so varied, looks like Federal regulation might iron out the kinks.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: New PV VIDEO Don't BELIEVE the HYPE!
« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2007, 04:20:59 PM »


This whole thread started off with Kreflo poppin off again.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: New PV VIDEO Don't BELIEVE the HYPE!
« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2007, 04:47:42 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""


This whole thread started off with Kreflo poppin off again.


Ugh.  Kreflo, those peoples give me the heebie-jeebies.  Not many people of color in the organization, except that one fella an' I'm none too certain what to make of him.  The men all act a little light in the loafers and the women look like they wear boxer shorts so their balls ain't constricted.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: ???
« Reply #40 on: November 13, 2007, 05:51:48 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Some posters have been out of programs for twenty years


They have trouble letting go of the past. 99.99% of program participants move on with their life and never look back. This website represents the small number of "victims" who want to blame their shortcomings on others.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: ???
« Reply #41 on: November 13, 2007, 06:26:04 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
This website represents the small number of "victims" who want to blame their shortcomings on others.

Your MOM wants to blame her shortcomings on others- her main one being you!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Botched Programming

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Re: ???
« Reply #42 on: November 13, 2007, 06:59:26 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Some posters have been out of programs for twenty years

They have trouble letting go of the past. 99.99% of program participants move on with their life and never look back. This website represents the small number of "victims" who want to blame their shortcomings on others.


Spoken like a steptcraft cult speaking program bot. This statement that I highlighted sounds like something someone in AA or NA would spew like vomit from their mouth.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline ZenAgent

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Re: ???
« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2007, 11:29:43 AM »
Quote from: ""Botched Programming""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Some posters have been out of programs for twenty years

They have trouble letting go of the past. 99.99% of program participants move on with their life and never look back. This website represents the small number of "victims" who want to blame their shortcomings on others.

Spoken like a steptcraft cult speaking program bot. This statement that I highlighted sounds like something someone in AA or NA would spew like vomit from their mouth.


Indeed.  I'm wondering why the cultish poster is here, if 99.9% "move on"...what draws the poster to this forum to piss on what he/she assumes to be such a marginalized group?  It shouldn't be worth the effort.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
\"Allah does not love the public utterance of hurtful speech, unless it be by one to whom injustice has been done; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing\" - The Qur\'an

_______________________________________________
A PV counselor\'s description of his job:

\"I\'m there to handle kids that are psychotic, suicidal, homicidal, or have commited felonies. Oh yeah, I am also there to take them down when they are rowdy so the nurse can give them the booty juice.\"

Offline ZenAgent

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New PV VIDEO Don't BELIEVE the HYPE!
« Reply #44 on: November 14, 2007, 11:50:18 AM »
For the benefit of theWho, since he attributes everything to experiential opinions, we'll put PV to the ISAC test of hellhole:


Warning Signs of Potentially Abusive Facilities


   1. The facility is not licensed.It is.

   2. Verbal and/or written communication between the child and his parents, siblings, grandparents, etc. is prohibited, restricted, or monitored on any level. It is


   3. The facility requires that the parents and/or child sign a form releasing the program of liability in the event of injury to the child. PV does require a full waiver to be signed


   4. The program requests/demands/recommends that they have legal custody of children.PV does


   5. The program requires that children live in foster or "host" homes instead of allowing them to reside with their parents.Not applicable


   6. The child or parent or forbidden from discussing the daily happenings at the facility. Often this policy is called "confidentiality."Oh my God, yes.


   7. The child is denied access to a telephone.Yes


   8. Phone calls between children and parents are monitored.Yes


   9. The program uses confrontational therapy.Yes


  10. Parents must fulfill requirements of the facility before being permitted to visit their own children.Absolutely


  11. The facility is located outside the jurisdiction of the United States. No


  12. Children are restrained or otherwise physically prevented from leaving the facility.Yes


  13. The staff includes former students/clients of the facility.Yes


  14. Staff members claim that self-injury or cutting/carving on ones body is normal behavior for a child in treatment. Yes


  15. Parents are not allowed to remain with their child during the entire intake/entry process. Definitely not.


  16. The program inflicts physical punishments on children such as exercising for extended periods of time, bizarre cleaning rituals (ie scrubbing floors with a toothbrush) or food restrictions.Yes


  17. The program uses humiliation to "break them down."Yes


  18. The program forces children to remain in solitary confinement/isolation/time-out for an unspecified amount of time.Yes


  19. The facility considers homosexuality to be a behavioral problem.Yes


  20. The facility claims to be able to "treat" homosexuality.Yes


  21. Reading materials are prohibited or severely limited. Yes


  22. The facility does not have a clearly visible sign outside the building or descriptions of their location are vague.Very vague


  23. The facility claims to modify behavior, yet has no licensed therapists on staff.No. At least one is licensed.


  24. A licensed doctor or registered nurse is not present at any time during normal operating hours.No, there's a nurse on duty most of the time


  25. Current clients/students participate in the intake/entry process.No


  26. Staff members offer to help parents obtain a court order forcing the child into, or keeping the child in, the facility.Unknown


  27. Children are observed while bathing, dressing, or using the toilet on any level of the program.Yes


  28. The facility claims to treat drug abuse, but does not conduct a drug screen prior to entry.No, they screen.


  29. The facility does not allow children to follow their religion of choice.No


  30. Staff members must "approve" family members, siblings, friends, or employment.Yes


  31. Children are not afforded an education in accordance with state requirements.Unknown


  32. Medication is recommended, prescribed, approved, or dispensed by anyone other than a medical doctor (MD).No


  33. Children are denied medications that have been prescribed by an MD[{i]Yes[/i]


  34. Staff members, admissions personnel, referrers, etc. make statements indicating that "your child will die without" the program.Yes


  35. Children escort/supervise other children.No


  36. Children have to "earn" the "right" to speak during group/therapy sessions.Yes


  37. Children are denied outside activities on any level/phase.Yes


  38. Staff members must approve the withdrawal of children from the facility.Yes


  39. The facility expects total and unquestioned support of parents.YES


  40. Children on any level/phase are forbidden to speak to other children in the facility.Yes


  41. The facility will not disclose the names of any doctors or therapists on staff prior to the child's admittance into the program. The website names clinicians - frontlne staff are not discussed.


ISAC will add to this list as necessary.


It merits a big red flag.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
\"Allah does not love the public utterance of hurtful speech, unless it be by one to whom injustice has been done; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing\" - The Qur\'an

_______________________________________________
A PV counselor\'s description of his job:

\"I\'m there to handle kids that are psychotic, suicidal, homicidal, or have commited felonies. Oh yeah, I am also there to take them down when they are rowdy so the nurse can give them the booty juice.\"