The Word and the Obstacle

[webcrawler]

On 2006-01-12 19:00:00, Anonymous

 ::boycott:: "

Please do, but wait I doubt that will happen because some people around here live to make others miserable. Funny how two of them want to act so concerned about people's feelings now after they have trolled people non-stop here. Should I demand the crap you two posted regarding me be removed too?

I see "slander" only matters when it happens to them. EX-P I don't know whether to laugh or vomit about you now trying to take the high road after all the havoc you caused in this place.

[Anonymous]

So, idiot...let's get back to your original asinine statement about the "violent and rageful" stuff on the I just thread..  :lol:

Care to comment?

[Anonymous]

On 2006-01-12 17:34:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2006-01-11 21:11:00, Anonymous wrote:


"The best way to undermine a system of open and cooperative wordplay is to assert, in various and yet similar formulaic patterns, an ongoing replay of the obstacle. The obstacle is a bonding of words designed to accomplish the following: a weakening or complete breakdown of the host?s ability to ignore or deal constructively with insults, a reduction or elimination of the host?s rational faculties in favor of irrationality and acute anger, and a momentary or lingering loss of the host?s ability to articulate thoughts clearly.





The endgame for those who seek to subvert a group is threefold: a breakdown of trust, a collapse of clear communication, and the coveted result of group member against group member, which is the prize of the saboteur.  





The recent surges in word attacks seem almost calculated. They are too virus-like in their one-sidedness, too self-aware to be progressive manifestations of so many people word-jostling each other and growing sickened by the monotony of it. So why assume that every word attack originates in the fingers of a survivor? Why not consider the alternative?  


"

Aha. Then the next trick is just to realize that asserting an ongoing replay of the obstacle is part of the system of open and cooperative wordplay, and need not be recognized as an obstacle at all, in fact, there is the likely locus of the problem. Quantum physics suggests that the observer ( goddamnit this fucking sucks, come on you guys, we all know we're getting our brains washed here, right?!?) affects the observed. You decided that obstacle was an obstacle.



I say bully on Ginger's assertion that she owns this Straight forum. WE create it, by our words here. I say justice demands that she turn the moderation over to us.



Discuss."

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=10#27664
On 2003-12-09 08:46:00, animals all of us wrote:

"It's funny how people like Nazi let words over the Internet affect them so bad.  



I kind of like a bucket of KFC now and again, moron.  What do you have against people that pick up your garbage cans  Those 'kinds' of people make pension and bonus and retirement.  They have lives and can afford to be humble, which ALL of this is more than you will ever afford.



I am certain that if we met on the street somewhere your words would be different Nazi."

[Anonymous]

ALRIGHT. I will consider the alternative. They come from the fingers of the Borg. Is that what you are looking for?

Please, go on. I am curious.

I would say that a group of connected, financed individuals are working hard to subvert this forum, possibly from a template of subversion tactics with proven results. I would think that they are more collusive and trained than anyone might want to acknowledge. This is nothing mysterious or new to anyone. But this environment is so rife with mean-spiritedness, confusion, puerility, malaise, and any number of other symptoms, that it is difficult to ignore the possibility that many people, even very technical people, have underestimated the seriousness, coordination, and ingenuity of the attack machine.

[Antigen]

Know who's really shovelin shitloads of delicious brainwashing words? Check out Oprah:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/

She called the Larry King show and said....

KING: I'm going to hold the show a little longer because I understand we have Oprah on the phone. Let's see what she has to say. Are you there, my friend?

WINFREY: Hello, Larry, how are you?

KING: Hello, dear one, how are you doing?

WINFREY: I'm good. Watching James and Lynne. Hi, James. Hi, Lynne.

FREY: Hi, Oprah.

WINFREY: I wanted to say because everyone's been asking me to release a statement. I first wanted to hear what James had to say and I didn't want to have that colored by any personal conversation that I had.

As he said, he's had many conversations with my producers, who do fully support him and obviously we support the book because we recognize that there have been thousands and hundreds of thousands of people whose lives have been changed by this book.

Full Text: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... kl.01.html

And what do various fornits think of this book? Here's one really passionate discussion.

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#36646

Here's more!
Dave Chappelle Theory a bit less fantastical, doesn't it?

The most fundamental purpose of government is defense, not empire.
--Joseph Sobran

_________________
Drug war POW  
Straight, Sarasota
`80 - `82

[Antigen]

On 2006-01-12 23:02:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

ALRIGHT. I will consider the alternative. They come from the fingers of the Borg. Is that what you are looking for?



Please, go on. I am curious.

I would say that a group of connected, financed individuals are working hard to subvert this forum, possibly from a template of subversion tactics with proven results. I would think that they are more collusive and trained than anyone might want to acknowledge. This is nothing mysterious or new to anyone. But this environment is so rife with mean-spiritedness, confusion, puerility, malaise, and any number of other symptoms, that it is difficult to ignore the possibility that many people, even very technical people, have underestimated the seriousness, coordination, and ingenuity of the attack machine.      

Well, it's not that I haven't considered it. I've actually thought about it quite some bit over the years. Not precisely this scenario. But, well, let's say that after the two week evaluation prank and then the attempted kidnappings and even an extradition from another state, the general idea of dirty tricks taken to insane lengths w/ these people doesn't seem like paranoia to me. It seems more like prescience.

And I've given a good deal of thought to how to address that. I think I found the linchpin (no, not the dude from Texas.... wasn't lookin fer him). It's all about control of communication. Ever read Why I Live at the PO?

Did you have any serious difficulty figuring out what to think or who to talk to? Me either. That shit only works well under controled conditions. But I must wonder what Oprah is gonna do to me now!  :scared:

Faith, as well intentioned as it may be, must be built on facts, not fiction- faith in fiction is a damnable false hope.
--Thomas Edison, American inventor

[Antigen]

Oh, one other thing. I have to reiterate what the anon said above. Not everybody here has all their marbles. And that's true of any forum. Just check out the headlines about the red necks brawlin over gals in AOL's "Romance, older men" chatroom. You don't really have to pay people to get them to act crazy. And these particular people, identifying so critically w/ the program as they do, take criticizm of the program very personally.

So..... Fuck em! Let em throw fits. An accurate portrait of the troubled parent industry shouldn't leave them out, should it?

Or, of course, we'll make great pets. All you can do is try and make people think.

The wretchedness of religion is at once an expression and a protest against real wretchedness. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the feeling of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of unspiritual conditions. It is the opium of the people.
--Karl Marx, German economist and political philosopher

[Anonymous]

On 2006-01-12 23:02:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

ALRIGHT. I will consider the alternative. They come from the fingers of the Borg. Is that what you are looking for?



Please, go on. I am curious.

I would say that a group of connected, financed individuals are working hard to subvert this forum, possibly from a template of subversion tactics with proven results. I would think that they are more collusive and trained than anyone might want to acknowledge. This is nothing mysterious or new to anyone. But this environment is so rife with mean-spiritedness, confusion, puerility, malaise, and any number of other symptoms, that it is difficult to ignore the possibility that many people, even very technical people, have underestimated the seriousness, coordination, and ingenuity of the attack machine.      





"

Considering the direction from which the mean-spiritedness, confusion, peurility, malaise and so on are coming from, it would be interesting to hear your thoughts on exactly which parties are doing the attacking and undermining. That is, is it those parties which you are positing wish to subvert this forum? Or is actually the parties who profess a desire to maintain things as is? Or a third alternative? Just curious.

[Anonymous]

No wait, scratch that. I think I am following you. (I wrote the post just above.)

[teachback]

I've come to the conclusion that if you (or whoever) want(s) something done "right" that yous are going to have to do it yourselves. Case closed.

[Antigen]

Ya'll, I really think this one belongs under website hosting too. But it's sort of a coin toss. What do ya'll think?

...the primary reason to outlaw marijuana
is its effect on the degenerate races.

http://www.heartbone.com/no_thugs/hja.htm' target='_new'>Harry Anslinger

[Anonymous]

At this point I couldn't care less...  :lol:
-Frankie

[Anonymous]

Oh, one other thing. I have to reiterate what the anon said above. Not everybody here has all their marbles. And that's true of any forum. Just check out the headlines about the red necks brawlin over gals in AOL's "Romance, older men" chatroom. You don't really have to pay people to get them to act crazy. And these particular people, identifying so critically w/ the program as they do, take criticizm of the program very personally.

It would be interesting to develop a way of determining which attacks are random and which are not. Randomness would have to be delineated as a variable first, and then a percentage and a margin of error decided upon. But even before this, the methods of subversion would have to be clearly listed and defined. Even then, it would require care to distinguish between the random and the subversive attack.

A strong understanding of the dynamics of open communication is crucial. Depending upon the context and the terms of use prescribed, the methods of communication will vary from forum to forum. But the dynamics should remain constant and identifiable. To determine if a subversive attack is taking place, mark which symptoms are occurring outside of the adjusted outcome of the dynamics.

This formula assumes that a normal pattern of communication should look one way, and that a subverted pattern of communication should look another way. The dynamics of a normal pattern of communication should remain constant, while a subverted pattern should lead to an overall effect of disintegration from the source. Like the symptoms of a progressing virus, certain identifiers should mark the subverted pattern?s overall decline. In either case, an eventual breakdown of the pattern is guaranteed. But the subverted pattern?s rate of decay should be verifiably faster and more pronounced.

[Anonymous]

I'll get right on it.

[Antigen]

And so how do you control for our bizarre common background? Seems to me that, even if someone had the time and inclination to read every last post to all of these forums and conduct a reasonably respectable scientific analysis, we still wouldn't know whether we're looking at evidence of a subversive plot or evidence of psychological and emotional damage owing to our contact w/ the berzerkers.

And even this assumes that there's a foregone goal or desired outcome to having this discussion which can, in fact, be subverted. As far as I'm concerned, there isn't. My goal has been to invite comment on the Troubled Parent industry and see what happens. I guess and I expect that the overall view of ppl who go looking around here is going to be generally negative about the industry and, hopefully, they'll gain some insight and understanding into how it works. It really is just a cheap ass bit of slight of mind. If you know the trick, it doesn't work on you.

So, what's the point of putting so much time and thought into determining the motives of the antagonists? I mean, unless you can drill down far enough to document financial transactions or, maybe, plea bargains or something. That would be useful, but I'm not sure the likelihood of finding them warrants that level of exhaustive research.

But knock yourself out if you think it does.

You have rights atecedent to all earthly governments; rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the Universe.

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/7006/rulebook.html' target='_new'>John Adams