Need Information and help

[Desparate Dad]

what questions?

[The Liger]

When did Struggling Teens make it so that people can post questions, but only get private replies?  That blows.  I also saw a post where Katfish put up a link to another website, but the administator took it down because it was anti-program.  Parents trust this website?  Do they enjoy their stupidity?  Do they like to roll around in it and smear it on their faces?

[Anonymous]

Its been a good while since ST allowed questions on specific programs, but blocked all but private replies.  That seems to avoid the board getting filled with "its bad period.  don't bother to find real facts" and assorted bashing.  But, I think it reasonable to look to more than one source too -- which is a contribution this board makes.  No source is guaranteed tho.

[AtomicAnt]

On 2005-11-21 11:02:00, Desparate Dad wrote:

"I never got any responses from anyone with FIRST-HAND knowledge of Anchor....so I stopped coming to this completely biased and ignorant forum....unless I received an e-mail response directly from someone here.....The only thing I have heard from anyone first hand are good results and thankful parents and changed teens.  Good luck to you all."

Not exactly true. Biased, yes. Ignorant no. First hand knowledge of other programs is in abundance. Extrapolation is a valid and logical argument. If so many other programs are indeed harmful, then why trust this one?

[Desparate Dad]

Why trust this one when so many others are harmful? Well, let's take this to another topic....Well, we hear about sooo many bad and hurtful people from the Middle East, then they must all be bad and untrustworthy.  What about Catholic priests...we hear about all the bad ones in the news......I guess they must all be bad and hurtful.....and what about bad parents...they aer all over the news....rarely do we hear about the good ones...they must ALL be bad....and I say again...ignorant forum...to use a very limited amount of experience without taking in the whole number and extrapolating out to get resultss is anything but good science....I think they call it a flawed control group....

[Anonymous]

On 2005-11-21 18:27:00, Desparate Dad wrote:

"Why trust this one when so many others are harmful? Well, let's take this to another topic....Well, we hear about sooo many bad and hurtful people from the Middle East, then they must all be bad and untrustworthy.  What about Catholic priests...we hear about all the bad ones in the news......I guess they must all be bad and hurtful.....and what about bad parents...they aer all over the news....rarely do we hear about the good ones...they must ALL be bad....and I say again...ignorant forum...to use a very limited amount of experience without taking in the whole number and extrapolating out to get resultss is anything but good science....I think they call it a flawed control group...."

You will make a great programmie.  

















::fuckoff::

[AtomicAnt]

On 2005-11-21 18:27:00, Desparate Dad wrote:

"Why trust this one when so many others are harmful? Well, let's take this to another topic....Well, we hear about sooo many bad and hurtful people from the Middle East, then they must all be bad and untrustworthy.  What about Catholic priests...we hear about all the bad ones in the news......I guess they must all be bad and hurtful.....and what about bad parents...they aer all over the news....rarely do we hear about the good ones...they must ALL be bad....and I say again...ignorant forum...to use a very limited amount of experience without taking in the whole number and extrapolating out to get resultss is anything but good science....I think they call it a flawed control group...."

By the same reasoning one could say that just because herion is bad for you doesn't mean all illegal drugs are bad for you? Or are you purposely being silly?

The experience level here is anything but limited. As for ignorant, those on this forum have obviously done extensive research and delved into the issue from many sources, not the least of which, includes first hand accounts of former staff, parents and clients. A picture has been painted here which condemns an entire industry because the unethical methods these programs use are clearly universal through-out the industry. If you have found one 'good' program it is in the minority.

Okay, fine. You are the one taking the risk. Or more accurately, exposing your child to the risk. As for me, based on this flawed control group's hundreds of horror stories, the negative news articles, and the negative exposes, from reputable news outlets, I would never take this chance with my child. There is no way I would ever place my child in a facility where he cannot contact me at will or call 911 if he needs to.

Even if there were no credible evidence or alarming stories about these programs, I would never send my child to one. I find their methods morally abhorent. I don't need any third party to tell me that. I came to that conclusion simply by readng the industry's own websites; long before finding Fornit's.

That is how I came to be here. I was searching the Internet for information on Outward Bound like programs (I attended one as a kid) and came across the sites for Turn-about Ranch and Redcliff and was appalled at their harsh methods. I decided to dig deeper and found this site among many others. As a middle aged man, I had sincerely thought that the tough love approach had been thoroughly discredited long ago and was now rightfully extinct. How wrong I was.

[Anonymous]

AtomicAnt, I'm with you. I am more than middle-aged, and found my way to this forum after a child I knew well was sent to a program. The intitial horror at finding that these places existed at all, was overwhelming. The first red flag to any rational person should be the secrecy and isolation under which these places operate. That, coupled with the remote locations, in states with no child protective laws, should send parents running the other way. And don't tell me all these parents have tried everything and a program was their last resort, because the child I know had no traditional intervention before being sent away. Had a professional been involved, it would have surely been discovered that it was not the child who needed help, but the parents. Perhaps this is the reason so many parents chose the program, it's easier to blame everything on a child than to admit that the whole family is a mess.

[001010]

God help the program children.  :cry:

Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

Matthew 5:5

_________________
EST (Lifespring) '83
Salesmanship Club '84-'86
Straight, Inc. '86-'88

[Anonymous]

How do you know there was no intervention?  Could be the family just chose not to tell you how difficult things were and how they were dealing with it.  Not everyone takes out an ad when their family is in crisis and counseling.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-11-22 08:01:00, Anonymous wrote:

"AtomicAnt, I'm with you. I am more than middle-aged, and found my way to this forum after a child I knew well was sent to a program. The intitial horror at finding that these places existed at all, was overwhelming. The first red flag to any rational person should be the secrecy and isolation under which these places operate. That, coupled with the remote locations, in states with no child protective laws, should send parents running the other way. And don't tell me all these parents have tried everything and a program was their last resort, because the child I know had no traditional intervention before being sent away. Had a professional been involved, it would have surely been discovered that it was not the child who needed help, but the parents. Perhaps this is the reason so many parents chose the program, it's easier to blame everything on a child than to admit that the whole family is a mess. "

Hi Katherine! :wave:

[Anonymous]

If I am who you think I am then you know the whole story...others will just have to trust that I know the child and the family situation intimately. If they do not believe me, too bad. All I am hoping for is that some frustrated prospective program parents will read this forum and resist the temptation to absolve themselves of the responsiblity of parenting, by sending their child away to be raised by strangers. I want them to know that these surrogates they entrust their babies to, are even less competent than they are and it's time they admitted the truth and looked for help within their local mental health system. Most of these people have insurance that would pay a substantial amount toward counseling, and HELLO, 100K per year would pay for a lot of tutors, a local private school, and probably a 24/7 babysitter/bodyguard, if that's what they really think is necessary. Ironically, the parents involved in the subject case, both turned out to be successful, amazingly after being normal teens. I can only speak for one of them, who I know for a fact, tried drugs, sex and alcohol as a teen, but in spite of it all, managed to finish  college and become a productive adult. All I can say to the parents out there, don't expect your kids to be different that you were! Stop punishing them for being normal, get to know them, and accept them for the amazing people they are!!!!

[Anonymous]

You say you know the details intimately.  Did you live with them?  Were you there 24/7?  Did you know their daily schedule and planner?  Their every coming and going?  Every appointment?  Are you certain those dental apointments, doctor appointments, family outings weren't counseling appointments?  Or...is it possible the version you believe was given to you by the child?  Not that is always wrong to believe the child, but remember....there are always two sides to every story.  And if the parents did use, and drink and have sex, maybe they would like something better for their child.  Maybe they would like to see their children not have to make the same mistakes they did.  Just because it is what most kids do, doesn't make it the right thing to do.  So, unless you were the perverbial fly on the wall at all times in the home.  Quit judging the actions of these parents.  Instead, find out how you can help.  Support their efforts to protect their child and family.  Work with them, not against them.

[Anonymous]

You say you know the details intimately.  Did you live with them?  Were you there 24/7?  Did you know their daily schedule and planner?  Their every coming and going?  Every appointment?  Are you certain those dental apointments, doctor appointments, family outings weren't counseling appointments?  Or...is it possible the version you believe was given to you by the child?  Not that is always wrong to believe the child, but remember....there are always two sides to every story.  And if the parents did use, and drink and have sex, maybe they would like something better for their child.  Maybe they would like to see their children not have to make the same mistakes they did.  Just because it is what most kids do, doesn't make it the right thing to do.  So, unless you were the perverbial fly on the wall at all times in the home.  Quit judging the actions of these parents.  Instead, find out how you can help.  Support their efforts to protect their child and family.  Work with them, not against them.

[Anonymous]

And you need to go back to your program!