Typical Day at Sagewalk

[Anonymous]

This question was addressed to another parent who talked about how a program had been very helpful to a child in a number of ways.

Well, I don't know about that parents' reasons for posting here but they may be similar to my own---you never know

I see this site as only telling a very slanted side of the story in terms of wilderness programs and therapeutic boarding schools.

If those of us who have a more positive view on the subject let some of the things said here go unchallenged---what might parents looking for a program/school think if they happen to stumble into this site in their search?  

The answer of course is that hey might end up believing with question a lot of broad black and white assertions---on the other hand, if they hear another point of view--such as the point of view of a family in which a child was greatly helped by this kind of intervention-- they can then decide for themselves which seems more credible---and more suitable for their own children

If you want to have a site that only lets approved people post that can be done by having compulsory screened membership: but until them I don't know why you would expect only people with approved points of view to post here

[Anonymous]

A statement like that last one is helpful too in sizing up the credibility of the poster---I sure wouldn't take advice from anyone who would say---even if it's only said for dramatic effect----that it's better to take a kid out back and shoot him in the head than to put him in a therapeutic program

[OverLordd]

If you dont like a post like Three Springs Waygookin just posted well then I guess you dont like great authors in history that used sarcasm,  over the top statments, irony, or other such literary tools to make a point. To bad, you missed some great writing in the form of Kurt Vonnegut and others. Remember, a persons statements sometimes could be alittle deeper than face value.

[Anonymous]

No, you're wrong Overlordd, because Three Springs Waygookin is not a great author in history.  He/she/it is an angry poster with a lot of unresolved hate for parents of kids in trouble, and the posting was offensive.

[Anonymous]

Why does everyone think that any therapeutic program is automatically abusive and run by WWASP?  Some are; imagine a world where some aren't!

[OverLordd]

Hey three springs, I'm sorry if I missed it some where, but how exactly did you become involved in fornits? I gather your staff some where, but where did you work? I'm sorry if this is coming late, but I never read your history, do you mind giving me a quick summary?

P.S. Three Springs does not have to be a great author, its a literary tool any one can use it. You know, like those bullshit useless tools your kid gets cramed into him or her.[ This Message was edited by: OverLordd on 2005-08-02 07:36 ]

[Antigen]

On 2005-08-02 07:09:00, Anonymous wrote:

"A statement like that last one is helpful too in sizing up the credibility of the poster---I sure wouldn't take advice from anyone who would say---even if it's only said for dramatic effect----that it's better to take a kid out back and shoot him in the head than to put him in a therapeutic program"

Darlin, you don't understand what goes on in these places. It's nothing like how the family rep describes it. They'll say much worse to the kid while withholding food, sleep, outside communication and all comfort. This? This is just words on a screen directed toward (alleged) adults who can click away or walk away at any moment.

It just never ceases to amaze me how you folks can dish it out but ya' can't take it.

Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth.
                                     
--Mohandas K. Gandhi

[Antigen]

On 2005-08-02 06:21:00, Anonymous wrote:

I see this site as only telling a very slanted side of the story in terms of wilderness programs and therapeutic boarding schools.

If those of us who have a more positive view on the subject let some of the things said here go unchallenged---what might parents looking for a program/school think if they happen to stumble into this site in their search?

The answer of course is that hey might end up believing with question a lot of broad black and white assertions---on the other hand, if they hear another point of view--such as the point of view of a family in which a child was greatly helped by this kind of intervention-- they can then decide for themselves which seems more credible---and more suitable for their own children

If you want to have a site that only lets approved people post that can be done by having compulsory screened membership: but until them I don't know why you would expect only people with approved points of view to post here.

That's so convoluted. Nothing goes unchallenged around here. You post here. I haven't made any attempt to discourage you or censor you. That's the opposite of a slanted representation.

People who come here looking for info get all sides of the story. Are you afraid yours can't stand on it's own?

By 1940 the literacy figure for all states stood at 96 percent for whites. Eighty percent for blacks. Notice for all the disadvantages blacks labored under, four of five were still literate. Six decades later, at the end of the 20th century, the National Adult Literacy Survey and the National Assessment of Educational Progress say 40 percent of blacks and 17 percent of whites can't read at all. Put another way, black illiteracy doubled, white illiteracy quadrupled, despite the fact that we spend three or four times as much real money on schooling as we did 60 years ago.
--Vin Suprynowicz

[Anonymous]

No one is saying abuses didn't/don't happen.  Why condemn parents who didn't abuse their child but instead sent them child to an effective, compassionate, ethical facility for demonstrated clinical mental health needs?  Why is it so hard to imagine that such places exist?

[Troll Control]

On 2005-07-31 17:51:00, Anonymous wrote:

"God- why didn't I think of THAT?  Damn. I should have ASKED my teen why he did the things he did!  Yeah, I just gave up when things got "a little rough"- when he was in the ER after yet another overturned car.  H E L L O, idiots!  We did EVERYTHING possible.  "

So, you're saying that you didn't even ask your kid why he was acting out?  You claim you did (exclamatory) EVERYTHING possible, but then admit you put not a scintilla of effort into problem-solving?   :roll:

And you call other people stupid?  Geez, lady, get a grip already...Maybe you should check yourself into a wilderness program because you are wildly out of touch with reality.

[Troll Control]

On 2005-08-02 08:15:00, Anonymous wrote:

"No one is saying abuses didn't/don't happen.  Why condemn parents who didn't abuse their child but instead sent them child to an effective, compassionate, ethical facility for demonstrated clinical mental health needs?  Why is it so hard to imagine that such places exist?  "

Can you NAME one?  People have been asking you repeatedly to provide the nameS of the programS you sent your kidS to, but you just keep saying how great they were and don't name them.  

Why not get some free advertising here for your great and effective programs?  Exactly WHICH PROGRAMS did you enroll your kids at?

Please don't deflect or ignore the important question being raised.  As a programmie, I know you've been trained to deny, divert, digress, distract, deflect and avoid probative questioning at all costs (even your credibility), but please try to answer at least this one simple question:  WHICH PROGRAMS DID YOU SEND YOUR KIDS TO?

Thanks!

[Anonymous]

I don't care to name the programs my son attended. I have provided this information privately to posters on the strugglingteens site.  I wish to remain anonymous on this site because I have been the target of hateful emails in the past.  I also wish to protect the identity of my son.
I will say that I know of at least 6 wilderness programs where there have been no reports of any abuse and both parents and teens felt the programs were life-changing and worth every penny and day spent.  Do you think the program in Shouting at the Sky is abusive?  I have friends who have placed kids at Cascade in the past (before it went downhill) with great results for the teen and the family. The schools which sprung from Cascade, such as Carlbrook, have been praised by kids and family alike-even on THIS BOARD.  I haven't heard anything about abuses at Oakley or Swift River, either.  
Why am I here?  I didn't even know about this site until Overlordd invaded our board.  Having discovered it and how ugly the posters here are in responding to copied posts from the strugglingteens board, I felt that I should respond.  When I see false things, I feel as though I should set the record straight for future parents who are doing research.  I want to help other families who are facing a similar crisis to what mine faced.
As far as kicking my son out of the house- it was tempting.  However, I saw too much potential in him. I chose to send him to a wilderness program and a TBS.  I was not always a very good parent. Probably the best thing I have ever done for him was send him to wilderness.  It was life-changing for him and for our family.  
The problem with many of you regulars on this board is that you won't accept that many of these programs WORK and that what we are reporting is TRUE.  That is a display of your immaturity and inability to dig out of your trench.

[AtomicAnt]

On 2005-08-02 04:14:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

Dear Atomic:  Lucky you, who never had a child spinning out of control.  I wish I had your innocence.  I also wish I had the tens of thousands I spent on therapy for my out of control child that insurance never covered.  Wish I didn't have that pesky second mortgage that supports education for all my children.  Can you agree that it's entirely possible that my child had problems, possibly genetically based, that your child does not?





Believe it or not, I agree with you that some parts of Brat Camp are stupid, starting with the name.  Then again, some parts of Survivor and Dancing with the Stars were stupid too.  It's called reality television.      "

I never said I did not have a child 'spinning out of control.' In fact, I have had one. My son was expelled from no less than 12 daycare providers before he even entered first grade! He was very violent. Nurture vs nature? I don't know.

I worked with my son. There were sleepless nights and truckloads of frustration. I felt helpless in that everything we tried did not seem to work. I had a CST (child study team) evaluate him. Over the years, several thereapists were involved. He attended two different kindergardens. In the second, he was placed in an inclusion class despite his high IQ.

We placed him a private school for first grade. That school conducted a second CST. He qualified for state assistance and a woman was assigned to work with him twice each week.

His behavior was so out of control that my ex-wife resorted to handcuffing him to the chair for 'time-outs.' He told his teacher. Family Services became involved. Handcuffing kids is child abuse, you know.

My son was placed with me. I stopped ALL forms of punishment and decided to try only redirection and positive reinforcement. I told my son that there would be no more penalties or punishments. Everyone (ex-wife, teachers, therapists) thought I was crazy...

My son passed second grade with all As and Bs on his report card. There was not a single reported incident in second grade. He is not perfect and will continue to have state assistance next year, but he has improved dramatically. He is now popular and has lots of friends. His self-esteem has improved immensely. He is enjoying summer day camp. He is living with his Mom during the week and spends every weekend with me.

So, I do understand what parents go through.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-08-02 06:21:00, Anonymous wrote:

"If those of us who have a more positive view on the subject let some of the things said here go unchallenged---what might parents looking for a program/school think if they happen to stumble into this site in their search?"

Replace 'positive experience' with 'life traumatizing hell-like experience' and you get an idea what some of us went through.

what might parents looking for a program/school think if they happen to stumble onto the THOUSANDS of websites owned by programs, the websites that are MUCH MORE LIKELY to pop up when a parent searches.

Fornits is THE ONLY FORUM!!! that lets us tell our program experience as it actually was. Can I do this at ST? NO! They will delete it, and won't even publish the program name, so how is this helpful to parents?

Or do you think ONLY telling the parents positive exeriences is helpful? You are such a hypocrite, it is just mind boggling.

You feel only the good experiences deserve to be told, well guess what, some of us had terrible abusive experiences. And since FORNITS (god bless) is the only place we can come and talk about it, of course we all hang out here. DO you expect us to hang out at ST?

What is it that you are not understanding here?

[Anonymous]

You claim you want to help parents find good programs and then you say this:

I don't care to name the programs my son attended.

You are here to argue with people, and that is it. You just proved it.