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Topics - GregFL

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The Seed Discussion Forum / Jason Dirk Walton
« on: July 04, 2003, 02:34:00 PM »
Anyone remember him from the St Pete Seed? ... 1024650287

anyone know the story of a head injury obtained in the seed?


A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper. He must free himself from the habit, just as soon as something does not please him, of calling for the police.' target='_new'>Ludwig Von Mises

The Seed Discussion Forum / 1972 Miami Grand Jury Report
« on: July 04, 2003, 01:54:00 PM »
here is the link ... 1972s4.pdf

Pages one thru six.  This was before, of course, Miami ran the Seed out of its county amid controsversy.  

They really just didn't get it....

If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.

--Thomas Jefferson

The Seed Discussion Forum / Goodbye Big Frank
« on: March 17, 2003, 06:49:00 PM »
Frank, you may not realize it, but your contribution here gave many the courage to face down their own pain and humiliation. It also showed others that the seed was not the loving caring facade they put forth to the public, but instead a dangerous mind cult that still to this day, affects its victims.

Thank you for letting us get to know you, even on such a small level. May you rest in peace my friend.

I encourage anyone else that wishes to pay their respects to do so here, in this thread....

Come the millennium,

month 12,

in the home of greatest power,

the village idiot will come forth to
be acclaimed the leader.

[ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2003-03-17 16:17 ]

Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / RIP BIG FRANK
« on: March 17, 2003, 06:47:00 PM »
Big Frank was in the Seed Ft lauderdale/Miami some thirty years ago. Frank was troubled by what happened to him there and was very happy to find the Seed discussion forum. Frank posted a very private humiliating story about how when he was thirteen, his oldcomer beat him with a belt on his bare behind in front of the oldcomer's family to purposely humiliate and break him...

Three weeks ago, Frank was found dead of a drug overdose. Those that wish to pay their respects are encouraged to post a short message in a thread entitled "goodbye Frank" on the seed discussion forum. He is survived by his sister, another seed survivor named "blue morphine".

A multitude of laws in a country is like a great number of physicians, a sign of weakness and malady.

--Voltaire, philosopher (1694-1778)

I will be in St Pete Tomorrow for a lunch meeting. Anyone wish to meet me at the Seed for a little tour?

If so, email asap to

I do not believe in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance.

--Thomas Carlyle

Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Fllorida statute of limitation civil
« on: January 20, 2003, 12:31:00 PM »
The following statute of limitations exist of civil prosecution in Florida.

First, in civil actions, the time starts running from the time of the cause of the action accrues.

1) negligence- 4 years
2) recovery of your personal property (money) -4 years
3)Legal or equitable action founded on fraud-4 years
4)action to rescind your contract-4 years
5) assault, battery,false arrest-4 years
6)false inprisonment-4 years
7) any other intentional tort-4 years
:cool: professional malpractice-2 years from discovery exercising due diligence and only in the privity of profession. for example, you cannot sue a drug counselor for medical malpractice. Due diligence is the limiting factor. Marching in twenty years later and saying you just remembered would  not make it past the first motion to dismiss, imo.
9)Libel or slander-4 years
10) performance of contract- 1 year

11) Intentional torts based on abuse by an "addictions receiving facility"-may be commenced at any time within 7 years after the age of majority (18), or within 4 years after the injured person leaves the dependency of the abuser, or within 4 years from the time of discovery by the injured party of both the injury and the causal relationship between the injury and the abuse, whichever occurs later
NOTE: the term Intentional tort makes even this broadening of time very hard to enforce. Showing intent is very difficult. ... TM&Title=->2002->Ch0095->Section%2011

) Income tax due- it appears no limitation until discovery. Here is the caveat. A individual person cannot bring an action for income tax due against another. This right only belongs to the Dept. of revenue. An individual can only report suspected abuses of the code and then it is the governments sole decision from there. ... /Sec23.HTM

Whew. I learned a thing or two researching this topic.

In any civilized society, it is every citizen's responsibility to obey just laws.  But at the same time, it is every citizen's responsibility to disobey unjust laws.
--Martin Luther King

Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Florida Statute of limitations criminal
« on: January 20, 2003, 02:16:00 AM »
Since I have seen much debate over this here, I thought I would actually post the statute that pertains to some of the criminal allegations being made by Marti's committiee

1) 1st degree felonies-prosecution must be commenced within 4 years after it is committed.

2)Any other felony-must be commenced within 3 years after it is committed.

3) misdemenors-1st degree 2 years, 2nd degree 1 year.

4)Sexual battery, lewd, etc on a minor, prosecution must be commenced within the time specified for the type of felony (depending on the charge) the time starts not at the time of the occurance but at the time  of the person turning 18 or when reported to police, whichever is EARLIER.

The exceptions to this "statute of limitations" exist for:

1) causing death (murder no limitation)

2)causing injury with certain weapons(10 years limitation)

3)Rape if reported within 72 hours of the occurance (no limitation)

4) rape if not reported within 72 hours of the occurance (first degree rape 4 year limitation, 2nd degree rape 3 year limitation)

Since no one I know of was actually murdered, nor was any alleged rape or sexual assault that has gone unpunished to date reported within 72 hours, it would appear that ALL ALLEGED CRIMINAL ACTIVITY by The Seed and Straight, Inc. and its partners, corp officers and principals is UNPUNISHABLE by any Florida Criminal Court.

The only exception would be if rape was alleged and the state attorney was convinced to charge it under capital or Life statues. Very unlikely.

here is the source. Read it and weep. ... TM&Title=->2002->Ch0775->Section%2015

Next up, civil limitations.

[ This Message was edited by: gregfl on 2003-01-20 08:57 ]

The Seed Discussion Forum / my favorite post
« on: December 30, 2002, 12:31:00 AM »
Shortly after starting this forum, a new friend and fellow seedling from the early 70s named Marc Wordsmith posted this. In case you didn't see it the first time, I thought I would dig it up and share it. It seems so well thought out  and insightful that it gives me the chills to read it;

" I'm an ex-Seedling too. I did a Google web search on "the Seed" and "Art Barker" and discovered this site.
I have so many thoughts on this topic, I know I can't write them all in one post, but I'll try to get down the essentials. I am 44 years old and I live in California. I was in the Seed in Ft. Lauderdale in 1972, when I was 14. It came as quite a shock to me to be "kidnapped" by my parents into a "drug rehabilitation center," as I had never conceived of myself as a "druggie," having only tried pot a handful of times. I had no warning that it was coming . . . anyway, to jump ahead in my story a bit, in the years immediately following my experiences in the Seed, I found that--of the kids I'd been in the Seed with, and who had, like me, and like most everybody eventually, gone back to their old friends and gone back to experimenting with substances--I seemed to be the only one who still needed and desired to talk about the Seed a lot. The other ex-Seedlings I hung out with had apparently found a way to put it behind them without much trauma . . . it's all very mysterious to me still, how different people processed the Seed. I wish I could find and speak with some of the kids I knew at the time!
Anyway, here's a thought/insight that I'll share which helped me a lot when I realized it, and it came to me just about fourteen years AFTER the Seed . . .
I realized that, even with all the abuse, all the sleep deprivation, the all-night "coming down on me" sessions with my oldcomer and his cronies, the little and big humiliations, the thing that had really damaged me the most, the thing that had really hurt and twisted me up the worst, was that I had participated in my own brainwashing. I had tried, sincerely tried, to make the Seed's catechism true for me. That is, I had BETRAYED MY OWN EMOTIONAL REALITY . . . I had been an accomplice in my own mind-rape at some point, by trying to convince MYSELF that they were right, and that I had only read books like Siddhartha to be "cool," had never had any real friends, and, you know, the whole litany, that I had been utterly worthless and "full of shit" before the Seed and that I was grateful to the Seed for bestowing authenticity on my wretched self. So . . . it was my own inner attempts to destroy myself that actually wounded me the most . . . and once I could forgive myself for that, I began to heal a lot quicker and my life got a lot better. Now I'm not saying that I should have blamed myself in the first place, or that we were ultimately "responsible" for what happened to us--that's not the point. (Perhaps it was inevitable that I would have to try and convince myself the Seed was right, as opposed to trying to "con" the Seed which I never for a moment imagined I was capable of.) I'm just saying that, unconsciously, I DID blame myself, and I despised myself for what I had participated in. So, at age 28, I needed to look at the fourteen year old kid I had been in 1972, and understand the pressures he was under, and have compassion for the choices he made, and accept that I wasn't perfect, or maybe just not as heroic and invulnerable as I would have like to have been. I'm not saying the Seed didn't suck; it did. And I wish there was something I could do so other kids wouldn't have to go through that kind of thing today. It's one kind of hellish experience in a world of many different kinds of suffering.

Q. I simply ask, why is PUNISHMENT the solution with regards to the narrow group of behaviors which encompass illegal drug use....?

A.Pharmaceutical Business, both legal and illegal, run by the same people either way, money coming to the middle from both ends.  Bush.' target='_new'>Bill Gallagher

The Seed Discussion Forum / More Trivia
« on: September 23, 2002, 06:51:00 PM »
In February of 1973, The Seed was claiming 2900 kids that had been in the program.

By December, 1973, that number had swelled to 5000.

Thats is an increase of 2100 kids in less than 10 months.
The Seed had locations in Miami (closed in late 1973), Ft Lauderdale(closed late 2001), and St Petersburg(closed October 1975) at the time.

The Seed announced in June of 1973 the opening of three new seed locations;

Ft Pierce was due to open immediately with 100 "applicants"(closed after one year, don't have the month yet)

Ft Meyers within 90 days (never opened?)

And a panhandle location (never opened?)

The Seed also later opened a Stow Ohio branch that lasted only a month because Art moved in before he got a variance granted and when granted, a condition was attached that the police and Fire inspectors had access for routine inspections. Art, true to form, refused to allow police and Fire inspectors access and moved out of the building., they moved to cleveland where 60 kids were enrolled, and a tool and die company gave them  30 acres in a nearby suburb of Cleveland called Aurora under the condition that they use it. They  planned to operate it as soon as "economically feasible". I no little after this.

The man who donated the use of the St Pete Morgan yacht building, Will Caruthers, tried to get Art to open in his town (Dallas, TX) but apparently those plans fell thru.

Arts ambitious plans were to open a seed location in every major US city or area.

Anyone in Ohio that cares to do a little research as to when and why they closed, please email me or post a response.

The Seed Discussion Forum / Did you know?
« on: September 20, 2002, 11:24:00 PM »
That by December, 1973,scantily three years into "the program", the Seed was claiming over 5000 kids had already been "treated".

That initially Art was only getting $250 per kids and wasn't even demanding anything at all if you poor mouthed, but instead was mining local and federal governments and private donations.

That Art kept seperate books on "private money" and refused to show anyone.  That 450 Kids were enrolled in The St Pete Seed within 3 months.  That when the Miami Seed closed, 1400 Kids were in the program!

that Art's house was donated by a group of Seed parents.

That the St Pete Seed wasn't really donated by Morgan Yachts, but instead purchased by a local businessman and given to the Seed rent free for one year, then purchased by the Seed for over $200,000.

That the director of the St Pete Seed was indeed the infamous Susie Connors.

That I know even more Seed trivia today than I did yesterday!

The Seed Discussion Forum / People were trying to come to our rescue
« on: September 20, 2002, 11:18:00 PM »
It's true. I have been going thru stacks of articles perused from the St Pete Times from prior to the May 1973 opening of the Seed thru October, 1975, the closing of the St Pete Seed. In doing so, I have learned some things and reaffirmed others. I have been surprised by a few things.

Here is one. You may be aware that the Seed was operating under a federal grant of 1.4 million dollars just for the Ft lauderdale location alone. It was being paid in yearly installments.

The Seed in late in late 1973 applied for an additional 1,000,000 and was turned down by the NIDA for, among other things, the following reason;
 the seed failed to
1) document the prevalance and type of drug abuse
2) adequately describe the program

cited as a major concern was "the seed's philosophy of treating all adolescents with only one method might be detrimental"
(what an understatement!)I remember the inspectors! They came in in suits and observed the group. I remember wondering who they were and why they were there.

Anyway, our fearless supporter, the St Pete times, was undergoing a boycott by the seed parents and getting extreme pressure by the local community. Their response was brave and to the point in an editorial dated January 18, 1974;

"The federal government has denied aid to the Seed, and with good reason. This drug rehabilitation agency was and is too secrective about its affairs to expect handouts of tax money.

A national review committee confirmed the fears of others when it said a major concern was that "the Seed's philosophy of treating all adolescents with one one method might be detrimental.  Judges who commit offenders to the seed should take careful note.

The Seed is controversial. It has its sharp critics as well as its avid defenders. Few of those concerned are neutral about it.

Misgivings about the Seed include possible long-term personality effects of the peer-pressure techniques which it claims are so successful in turning young users against drugs.  Worrisome questions also have been raised about the civil rights of those assigned against their will to the seed."

Hooray! We weren't suffering in indignant silence. People of reason and compassion were speaking up for us and I think eventually helped tople the St Pete Seed.

For years our parents have collectively claimed they had no idea what went on in the Seed. I submit this is only true if they couldn't read because the St Pete Times was scathing their Ass on an almost daily basis, the ACLU was very concerned, the good Senator Sam Irvin compared the Seed to Korean brainwashing, and a prominent local educater called Art Barker a dangerous Menace who was playing with children's minds.

Unfortunately, our parents ignored the obvious because the cult had gripped them and convinced them they were part of something bigger, a plan to save america. They gladly sacrificed our minds and freedom for the greater cause.

To quote a parent from one of the articles I read;
"I don't care what Barker is doing to those kids at the Seed-all I know is that it works and it returned a daughter to me"

this is what we were really fighting, our own parents refusal to look at the truth and instead to focus on the smoke and mirrors.

The Seed Discussion Forum / Beauty for Ashes
« on: September 10, 2002, 08:40:00 PM »
And a great Aunt!

The Seed Discussion Forum / Art Barker The Actor
« on: August 26, 2002, 09:00:00 PM »
Art claimed he was many things before he was the fearless leader of the Seed Cult.

Fighter Pilot

Vaudeville actor

Rehabilitation/treatment specialist



High School dropout

After a conversation with someone whom called me today, I had a memory of him claiming several film credits. I did a search and found the following:

Mission  Mars. This one rings a bell.

Wild rebels

Both movies are from the late sixties. I am thinking about trying to see them.

Anyone remember Art claiming to be an acter?

[ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2002-08-27 16:01 ]

The Seed Discussion Forum / current picture of Art
« on: August 20, 2002, 12:12:00 AM »
This picture was taken while Art was shutting down the seed several months ago. In the picture is John Perloff, long time seedling and Seed insider (Also Art's personal attorney and Canine companion board member)  Libby Mcdonald Barker Kienzle.  libby met her husband at sr84 after Art adopted her hence the name changes. She has  been married a long time and is a puppy trainer for canine companions. Art Barker, looking very old, and Shelly barker, looking very young.
This picture was taken as Art Donated money to this charity. The reasoning behind the charity selection is kind of obvious.
Does anyone think it unusual that all these seedlings are still hanging around each other? Maybe it is just me. ... 0206-0.htm

Then there is the matter of his next charity of choice. One must realize that when a non profit organization such as the seed shuts down, the proceeds must be donated to other non profit organizations.
they donated money to the city of Dania for habitat of humanity. Habitat for humanity matched funds.  They plan on building 20 homes in a "drug area" to help revitalize the neighborhood because as the mayor says, it doesn't matter where it happens, drugs ruin lives(paraphrase).
Seems like a noble cause. Then it comes to light that the mayor of Dania is an ex seedling and the board member of habitat that brokered the deal with the good mayor and Art Barker is also an ex seed staff member.
And so it goes. The small world of Art Barker is still inhabited by the Staff members and insiders that worked at the Seed when we were there so long ago. They have seemed to remain extremely close. many have gone onto be very successfull in business. This is good, but I had no idea that they were still so "close" after all these years.

The Seed Discussion Forum / The seed tears apart families
« on: August 05, 2002, 10:59:00 PM »
Today I talked to a lady whom brother had been involved with the Seed for 25 years and he still won't talk to her..and she is still upset by the divide caused by the program.

Today my sister and I had to rehash a very uncomfortable piece of our history, our 5 to 10 years or so post seed where our relationship suffered the most. What caused our suffering relationship? It had a lot to do with me, being suspicious of her because she had developed a relationship with my father. My father in my mind represented the program, even more so than Art Barker. He was now bragging to all about wonderfull new drug rehab he helped start, Straight, Inc.  I didn't realize she was struggling to make her relationship with him work and had her own issues with him. Frankly, I didn't even think about her issues because I was so wrapped up in my own pain.
Ultimately, it was the program and the cultism of the Seed which hurt our relationship. It took years and years to rebuild the trust we lost to the program which we did with no help from anyone else. The past several years has seen us grow to understand each other even more, but we were both robbed of each other when each other was all we had.  
The program wrecks families, and that truly sucks.

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