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Messages - ConstentGardener

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The Troubled Teen Industry / Who is the who? Did this poll work?
« on: January 03, 2008, 10:30:09 AM »
According to a photo once posted, claiming it was the Who, the Who is Jeff Berryman.  The photo was one Jeff once sent Sue Scheff. Sue Scheff sent it out to many others.  Someone posted it on Fornits, claiming it was the Who. It was probably just a poor excuse for a joke. But it does make you wonder.  It made me wonder about a number of things. I have no idea where it might be on the forum, and no idea who posted it. I do clearly recall seeing it though. It was much talked about at the time, by all who knew about the photo and where it came from.

Why doesn't Scheff hire someone to proof her shit?

Because she can not tolerate any kind of criticism?

PURE Bullshit and CAICA / Inquiry about PURE
« on: January 03, 2008, 10:13:21 AM »
Why are they asking you?

It is possible they are attempting to get you to make a comment they can provide to PURE for use against you.

I think I would just explain that those advocates who've demonstrated true concern for the children, and who in no way profit from the industry, will have nothing to do with PURE, or anyone who does.There is one possible exception to this. But for the most part, this is so, and all anyone need do to confirm it, is ask around.


Seems maybe Ken decided an education might be useful after all


  Dr. Scott Smith has received a B.S. in Business and Marketing a Masters in Business Administration and his Doctorate in Psychology and a second Doctorate in Philosophy.

  Dr. Smith also has been involved in numerous trainings and Seminars dealing with both Businesses and Psychology. Including the Carnegie Mellon Non-profit Institute. He has been on a constant continual education program for the past 15 years, studying Business, Law, Psychology and Religion.

  Dr. Smith has also assisted many States and also Federal agencies to write or review policy and procedures dealing with youth as well as mentally challenged adults.
To Begin a Free Assessment of Your Teen by Dr. Smith
Or Call:


In Cults in Our Midst, Singer writes about Large Group Awareness Training. Anyone who has attended a WWASPS sponsored (required) seminar will recognize everything described. They can learn why they were not allowed time to have a relaxed meal; or a good nights sleep; or to sit next to their family member. They will learn about the sly use of normal human psychology to manipulate them into agreeing with things that in real (pre seminar) life they would never have tolerated.

There is a reason why the program likes the "baking" comparisons. If you follow a recipe for a cake you will end up with a cake. If you stop half way through the process, you end up with goo.

With Brain washing, you also follow a recipe. This recipe, if seen through to the end, has a predictable result: a person who thinks they way they have been conditioned to think. It won't matter that they thought differently before. The recipe works if followed. They will come out of the process changed. And from the program's (cult's)perspective this change is all to the better. They have a bunch of well baked cakes who will trust the program with out question, and scoff at all attempts to tell them the program isn't their savior.

But as with the cake, if you stop the process half way through you end up with a kind of mental goo. The mind has been softened up and mixed up, so the old ideas can be brought into doubt an discarded, and the new ideas implanted and accepted. Then they are Baked till done with the new idea now a part of who they are. But if you stop the process half way through, you will have a mess on your hands.  The new self hasn't been constructed and baked.  The new ideas may have been implanted, but not yet fixed, baked in. People often fall apart (like a half baked cake) and it can take weeks and even months to begin to feel "normal" again.

It is in fact "brain washing". It produces a predictable result if the recipe is followed. It produces a compliant and irrationally devoted group of followers  It also produces mental breakdowns, but they are few enough to fall easily through that acceptable window of loss. For the most part, it works well enough, long enough, to be of great benefit to the Cult / program.

The program itself meets all the required criteria to be classified as a cult. Just as did the Seed and Straight before them; and Syanon before them.

People often want to equate "brainwashing" with things like education or religion or the military. In Cults on Our Midst, Singer tackles this issue head on, and explains why these legitimate organizations are not cults, and are not brainwashing people. Its a very good book. Anyone with an interest in these programs should read it. It explains a lot that seems otherwise incomprehensible.

6 ... bertoreyes

Many of the investigative documents into the death of Roberto Reyes.

If a parent in the Turley lawsuit is still participating on this discussion forum;

Which forum? This forum?

it does seem plausible that this parent could be trying to convince parents to remove their kids from WWASP programs.

No kidding. It would almost be a crime not to warn the program parent about the constant allegations of abuse and neglect the WASP program produces.  It would amount to a dereliction of duty to humanity for someone who understands the risk of harm, not to try and explain them. Fornits is the perfect place for this to transpire unimpeded. No forum operated by WASP would ever allow such a conversation to take place.

It's not a big leap to think this parent may then be referring these parents on to Isabelle to talk about joining the Turley lawsuit; or on to Scheff-PURE to find a "safer program" for their child.

It is a huge leap if you are talking about Fornits. Those two don't have many friends actively posting on Fornits.  If your talking about a WASP forum, then it is impossible.

There must be dozens of internet postings on this forum and others speaking about the current law suit. Anyone spending any time looking into WASP is going to run across reference to it.  If they are in that large group that feels the WASP program did them harm, they are likely to contact the law firm on their own, apart from anyone else making the suggestion.

Open Free for All / "Law of Parties"... Only in Texas
« on: September 01, 2007, 10:03:40 AM »
I read in yesterday's paper that the sentence was commuted to life just 7 hours before he was scheduled to die.

PURE Bullshit and CAICA / Troll of the year
« on: August 26, 2007, 04:13:03 PM »
Sue Scheff is very literally a troll. She has had others post baiting comments on her behalf, and posted some herself, while pretending to be some newbie just discovering all this controversy.  There has been a long, on on going effort, to side track legitimate discussion of her business practices and history in the industry. Wouldn't that qualify as trolling?

Its difficult to talk about the problems in this so called teen help industry, and not come back around to Sue Scheff. She seems to have wormed her way into almost every aspect of the debate. No matter what you might want to talk about, someone will find away to bring Scheff into the conversation. And so, I also agree with Chicklet. Scheff is taking up more time and effort and energy than she deserves. I do believe this is a result of her efforts to bring down these fori. Big mistake on her part. But now that there has been a response, and the forums are once more secure, it is time to move on; For awhile, anyway ;)

The Troubled Teen Industry / Hephzibah House
« on: August 11, 2007, 11:19:27 AM »
I have a few questions for the Iraqi solder who has placed her daughter into a prison where she can be tortured into submission in Jesus' name:

How do you ignore Jesus' clear warning about the danger to the soul of one who hurts a child and damages their faith?

How do you ignore His great compassion for the sinful men and women He met in His years of tramping about the nation healing the sick and preaching to the poor?

How do you ignore His dire pronouncements against the hypocritical, legalistic oppressors of the people?

Why do you want to believe He wants you to beat your children?

And if a child - why not a grown man or woman who is found to be in rebellion? Why not tie you to a post and flail away at your back, when you lie, or cheat, or steel, or fornicate?

11 ... d=13499051

Self-Medicated will be released in theaters nationwide on August 31st in the following cities:

New York
Los Angeles
Las Vegas
San Diego
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The Troubled Teen Industry / tt
« on: July 09, 2007, 04:12:00 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
But Aunt Kelly, what will this mother do about the condoms, and your nieces unacceptable behaviors just because this one faith-based program won't take her because of your interfering actions?

What would you suggest "guest" ?

Why is it so horrible that a 15 year old has condoms? So horrible she must be expelled from her family? Wouldn't it be worse if she didn't have them - but needed them? Apparently, she has decided sex will be a part of her life prior to marriage. Maybe this isn't the best choice. Maybe it isn't in keeping with God's plan for her life. But we all have to make our own choices. Isn't that a major principal of the Judaic-Christian faith? Free will?  

And aren't believers instructed to provoke not their children to wrath? [Ephesians 6 vs 4] And aren't we also instructed to be patient, gentle teachers of the word? [second Timothy 2 vs 23-26] Do you think abandoning a child to the care, or abuse, of strangers, a proper Christian parents response to finding a 15 year old with condoms?  

 Do you think it wise to send a young girl into the care of a strange man living in an isolated situation? Do you really believe she would be safer from sexual exploitation in such a situation? You think this b/c he says he is a Christian?  You think he is free of the temptations of the flesh? You think it impossible he would succumb to such temptation?  And how do you think it might effect a young girl to be abandoned by her "Christian" parents, into the hands of a "Christian" man, who then exploits her for his own wicked pleasure?

Or, if he does resist the temptation of having young and vulnerable girls at his disposal; would he take his frustrations out on them in other ways? Do you not think it possible these girls would be assaulted in other ways?  It is in fact all to likely. And what do you think this might do to a young girls trust in God and family?

Do you not think a more Christian response on the part of her parents would be prayer for their daughter? Do they not trust God to be faithful and hear a mother's prayer?  Do they not feel that they as parents have a responsibility to this child, even when she is less than perfect? Are they so very perfect? Where they perfectly obedient and mature in their faith at 15?

Ask yourself, did Christ fashion a whip and lash out at the woman at the well? No, He didn't. He spoke honestly, but kindly with her; and told her He was the Messiah her people were waiting for (before He told anyone else, I might add) despite her fornications.  

Did He beat and condemn the woman caught in adultery, that the crowd threw down in the dust at His feet? No, He didn't. Instead, He seems to have rebuked the crowd; for what ever He wrote in the sand, caused them to fall silent and scatter. I have always felt it was a list of names - names perhaps, of those the men in the crowd had "known". The woman He forgave on the spot, telling her to go and sin no more. And I expect she did just that - because of the love and compassion she had shown her. Had he beat her and cursed her as a whore, I've little doubt that's just what she would have remained.

Now, ask yourself "guest", Who did He lash out at? Who did He soundly rebuke and condemn? I'll tell you: Teachers of "religion". The Proud Hypocrites; those who stood piously praying on street corners to be seen by the crowds as righteous and holy, while they plotted to rob widows and orphans.  Those who would stone a poor woman to death for fornication; all the while perhaps, knowing how often they themselves had "known" her, or another like her.

Maybe this girls parents should spend some time in prayer and fasting - and think on these things.

Open Free for All / Niles wants to fuck a program mom
« on: June 26, 2007, 05:59:01 PM »
There was a Lexie on the pueblo forum. She was much impressed with Scheff and Zhender and hostile and belligerent with nearly everybody else. I quite reading that forum when the forum moderator removed entire threads for no good reason that I could see. After he removed most everything I had contributed by deleting entire threads, I requested he go ahead and delete my account and I haven't been back.


An exaggerated, but not inaccurate depiction of how behavior modification works; Why you do have those who come out of it determined to believe they are happy and that it "saved" them. From the POV of the True Believers, The kid in the chair (think of the infamous "blue chairs" at Straight Inc) just wouldn't work his program. The harm done to him was his own fault. Its a powerful little work he has done here. Sadly, the average person wouldn't understand it is a portrayal of what happens in the Teen Gulags every day. They might think it a commentary on  peer pressure; or societies demand for perfection, but they wouldn't get that this actually happens to thousands of kids every day. Maybe they  aren't literally stabbed through, but they do get hurt, physically and psychologically - and sometimes even killed - because they can't smile when horrified and miserable.

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