Fornits

Fornits Home for Wayward Web Fora
An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

We took the advice of some here and started counselling for us (parents) without our daughter.  The key of course is finding someone competent and I believe we've found a good one, who specializes in this field.

Its a very difficult thing to do, letting go and watching your child make bad decisions - but aside from setting herself back academically and ruining her once (model potential) beauty with piercings, shaved eyebrows and skin damage from poor makeup decisions, I don't think she's in significant immediate danger.  She may be doing drugs, she may get pregnant - but its her life and all we can do is try to offer guidance if and when she is willing to listen.  That's basically what we've learned from therapy, that we need to try new strategies for motivating her but ultimately we cannot control her.  Programs are an extreme response for desperate parents who are willing to spend an entire college fund or life savings to get their kids back on track but really I think when it has reached that point its too late to assert control.

Midway through the school year she had her grades up to A's and B's in all classes.  She ended with 4 F's and a D.  Its heartbreaking to watch.  I think she got a wakeup call when her summer plan to get a job was dashed by the requirement of a work permit from school, which they would not grant because she had 30+ truancies.  Now she's in summer school and claims an A so far.  All I can do is watch and hope.  Rewards await good behavior, so I hope she can find the path.

Thanks again to those who helped us avoid making a bad decision.  And for the rest, I hope you find peace too.

 -- M

she can do just fine once she decides to, even if she throws away several years between 15 and 25.

Yeah, I suppose you are right, *if* she decides to.  I am worried she'll get pregnant, or get comfortable and dependent on someone who is not good for her, and then never get back on track.  She has not surrounded herself with people who will give her a good example to follow.

This is just not something I've ever had to deal with in my family.  I was the worst of my siblings but even I got it together in time for college.  When I got shipped off to boarding school there was just as much drugs and drinking but the difference in the environment was *all* of these kids were planning to go to college, and nearly all of them did.  I can see now that these "therapeutic" schools won't have that kind of effect.

Maybe we should just move to a different state. :-p

I apologize for any distress my posts have caused, but I have not been banned and I am not Whooter.  I am currently in discussion with Antigen and others to resolve this.  Its difficult for me to prove who I am not without revealing who I am, and I have the same right to anonymity as everyone else here.

I have no doubt that some who have posted on this thread are industry shills, but I am not one of them.  And frankly I don't care what the shills have to say; I am not here looking for reasons to send my daughter away - i am looking for reasons not to (i.e. alternatives) since everything we have tried to date has failed and we're getting a bit desperate.  If you have never been in the shoes of a parent and seen your beloved child making decisions which threaten her future, you cannot imagine how stressful this is for us, just as we cannot understand how stressful these programs have been to the survivors.

But that's why I am here, to gain a better understanding.  I'd prefer to talk about that than to keep going in circles about who you (wrongfully) suspect I may be.

Deprograms,

I do remember what I did as a teen - and for that reason I am not really alarmed by her having sex (with the obvious caveat that her getting pregnant would be a disaster), nor is pot or alcohol going to cause me panic (again with the caveat that drinking + driving = death).  I did all those things too, and I survived it.  I had to repeat one year of school but that seems to have been the worst of it.  This is when my mother took control and send me to boarding school, and it turned me around academically because I was surrounded by kids who were all focused on getting into a good college.  It did nothing for my vices, which continued unabated.

But I wasn't so extreme as my daughter.  I never openly disobeyed or disrespected my parents.  I came home every night.  When my mother drew a line in the sand and offered me a choice, I took the right path.  I hated boarding school - HATED it.  Classes six days a week, jacket and tie to all meals and classes, very strict rules.  I almost got expelled.  But I survived, went on to a highly respected university and have a successful career. Looking back I know with 100% certainty that my mother saved me.  None of my friends' parents took action, none of them went to college, none of them found success in life.

I want my daughter to have the same opportunities I've had, and she is rapidly closing every door available to her.  My mother shoved me through a door, and I wasn't as far gone as my daughter.

A few days ago thomasC wrote: "you have more time than you think".  I suppose it depends on ones priorities.  Survival - yes.  I don't think she's necessarily on a path to killing herself.  Success - no.  If she doesn't get it together NOW, she will not get into a good college and she will likely struggle with her future.  That doesn't mean she needs a boot camp or even necessarily a therapeutic boarding school (hence maybe I'm on the wrong forum), but she certainly needs something.

Oscar, you make very good points.

She does have goals... completely unrealistic at this point.  She claims she wants to do well in school, claims she wants to attend law school.  And she's failing all of her classes and skipping school.  But you're right, she's leaps and bounds ahead of kids with no goals at all, and we need to nurture those goals.

I admit that the appeal of wilderness therapy is that she needs to gain some perspective, drop the sense of entitlement and learn to appreciate what we do for her.  At the moment I'm fearful that the wilderness programs are abusive, and no matter how frustrated I get, I really don't want that for her.  This is why I asked in my original post if *any* program is OK, because there are some apparent benefits to some of these programs but its just damned hard to find reliable information.  The program directors tell you they're all flowers and sunshine, while most of the Fornits community is convinced they are all pure evil.  I have to believe the truth is somewhere in between, and it likely depends on the program.

Obviously this is a huge financial decision as well and you are right, if we blow a couple years discretionary income on a nine month experiment, we're all tapped out whether it works or not and we still have to deal with what comes next.  What's maddening is that we'd much rather use the money to buy her a car, smartphone, laptop, clothes, and everything else she wants - and we've offered these if she would live by our rules, study hard and be respectful.  Sadly she'd rather live like an outlaw and then bitch about the things we won't do for her.

I love the Friday night dinner idea.  Unfortunately its way too late for that, she never eats with us anyway, and spends as little time at home as possible.  Sometimes she comes home to sleep, sometimes she comes home to change clothes, and that's about all.  We are very fearful of where this might lead both in terms of her safety and her long term prospects, and that's why we  started looking into these programs.  At this point we have completely lost control, and she lacks the maturity and judgement to make good decisions on her own behalf.

Thanks for the replies Oscar.

Aftercare is indeed one of my biggest concerns with any program.  It does no good for us to send her away only to have her return to the same environment, same friends that contributed to the current problems.  This is of particular concern with the short term programs (although certainly not my only concern there) - if she's gone for six weeks her boyfriend will be waiting for her.  If she's gone for a year will he still be waiting?  Possibly but certainly less likely.  If we can find a way to deal with the issues while she's at home, it avoids the whole question of re-integrating her when a program is complete.

This is b/c regulating, licensing and legislating for health and safety is left up to the states. Some do a good job, some not so good and others not at all. Guess which ones these programs set shop up in?

I figured that out about Utah, and I'm guessing Arizona is also on the bad list.  Which states do a good job?

Eh, you misread my posts then.  I submitted applications to two programs, we were accepted at both.  I was ready to call a service to pick her up but decided to do more research, applied to the second program.  The more I thought about it, the more I felt that the short term program was not for me.  Understand that this is all happening in real time.

Sorry if you don't like my attacks on the hypocrites here who fully exercise their first amendment rights and then turn around and try to censor anyone who threatens to disagree with them.  I don't recall labeling you as one of them.  This is a very stressful time for me and I came here seeking information and advise, and was immediately accused of being an alias for a notorious villain.  How do these people expect to help anyone with such tactics?

Write me off as a troll if you wish, I assure you I have no intention of being a fixture here.