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Messages - Lee Ann

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The Troubled Teen Industry / Lotts Legacy / High Top
« on: November 20, 2003, 07:06:00 PM »
Lotts Legacy and High Top are two different programs.  Truth is I don't know that much about Lotts.  I have never visited.  I have talked with an adimssions person there over a year ago.  Things change and I have not kept up on that particular program.  

My husband and I are at present both employeed by different programs here in Utah.  As I stated, at one point I tried my hand at the ed. con thing but didn't make any money because I was much to willing to give the infomation away rather then make people pay for it.  And as for programs paying a fee, I never recieved one.  

I was only responding to a request for information.  "Youre' really on the wrong site. This is a bash site. There's no room for positive stories here."  I believe you are wrong.  There is or at least should be room for positive, unbiased opinions.  Trust me I have lots of  things to say about many Utah programs. Some of it good ~ some of it bad ~ some indifferent. ::heart::

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The Troubled Teen Industry / Lotts Legacy / High Top
« on: November 20, 2003, 02:49:00 PM »
Anonymous: As for the Educational Consultant - Yes and no.  My husband and I have been in the program industry for the past 11 years.  We have worked for various Utah programs. I will give a straight unbiased opinion of each program discussed.  This last spring I thought I would give it a go at helping parents wade through the -what I call "brochure bullcrap".  But I no longer do it for pay.
 
Antigen:  I have worked with children that have ripped the heads off kittens, set fired to their house on numerous occassions, and exposed themselves playing in the yard, at grocery stores, etc. just to name a few. About 15 years ago I was a certified Day Care provider with the state of Utah.  My speciality was respite care for parents with children 8 - 14. I helped parents that were desperate for time off.  Not to go on vacation, but to get this, take a shower, get a couple of hours sleep, maybe go to dinner or even just take a few minutes to read a book with one of their other children.  These parents loved their children very much but did not have the where with all to handle this type of behavior day after day after day.  

I stated before that a program is NOT appropriate for all children, but in some cases it is necessary for life to function normally for both parents and child.  A highly structured daily format is very comforting to this type of child.  A parent can not always guarentee that lunch will be right at 12:00 each day and reading time will happen at exactly 2:30, especially if there are other children in the home.  We all know "Shit happens" and this can be very disturbing to a child that depends on the structure.

You are right, it is possible that home life can be contributing to the childs behavior.  I only saw this one time.  The authorities were called and the child ultimately was removed from the home.

I will be the first to say that out of home placement or residential care should the the LAST resort when all other avenues have been exhausted.

3
The Troubled Teen Industry / Lotts Legacy / High Top
« on: November 20, 2003, 12:52:00 AM »
I agree that 10 is very young for a program, however, I have had the opportunity to visit High Top personally and have seen with my own eyes the behavior of these boys.  I spent the better part of a morning with Ell and a few of the boys.  I, as a parent myself, would have a hard time sending my young son away for specialized help but after spending time at High Top, it was very apparent that the boys there did, in fact, need residential help beyond most parents capabilities.
 
Please don't misunderstand, I am not saying that a program is appropriate for all "troubled children." The boys that I spoke with and observed, in my humble opinion, were appropriate for this type of program. The boys are attended to 24/7 by what appeared to be very caring and VERY patient staff.

The residents appeared to be well cared for, the student-teacher ratio from what I observed was 3:1, group was being conducted by a certified couselor and the facility was clean. And I think more importantly the boys seemed happy and eager to interact with me.  

Yes, again I agree that 10 is very young but on occasion this type of residential program is needed and in some cases a God send.

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The Troubled Teen Industry / Lotts Legacy / High Top
« on: November 19, 2003, 09:06:00 PM »
I know very little about Lotts legacy.  What I do know is that it is owned by a couple of sisters.  I believe it is a co-ed program.  It is located in the southern remote town of Escalante Utah. http://www.lottslegacyboardingschool.com
I am very familiar with High Top.  It is a sister program of Sorenson's Ranch School.  It is owned by Ell and Chad Sorenson both brothers of Burnell Sorenson who owns SRS.  Ell and Chad have very strong educational backgrounds.  Ell recently retired as a school district superintendant in the Anchorage Alaska area.  
High Top works with boys ages 10 - 14.  They have therapy, education and outdoor activities.  It is a secure environment.  They also have a charter with the Boy Scouts of America.
 http://www.hightopranch.com/

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The Troubled Teen Industry / World Wide Assn Spec v. Pure, et al
« on: November 16, 2003, 12:06:00 AM »
I was introduced to Pure the middle of December by an admission person from another program.  We did have a conversation.  As you can tell by the dates of the Three Peaks article, 24 Oct '01, until Sue wrote her thing 22Dec '01, quite some time had passed. This is actually the first time I have seen the piece that Sue added to the Three Peaks article. As for being part of the PURE Family not true. While I was there, no students admitted to Skyline Journey were PURE referrals. As I stated previously, I left SJ the first week in Jan '02 fed up with the whole program.  The next Admissions person was Jeff Johnson.  I think he now works for Aspen at Adirondack http://www.adirondackleadership.com/admissions.html

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The Troubled Teen Industry / World Wide Assn Spec v. Pure, et al
« on: November 15, 2003, 08:59:00 PM »
PURE did NOT refer to Skyline Journey at least not while I was working there as their admissions person.  I left in Jan of '02 so things could have changed but I doubt it.  Skyline was in deep with IECA Ed. Consultants not independant referral sources like PURE.  SJ refused to pay the $1000.00 a kid fee.  
I do know that PURE referred 19 students to Sorenson's Ranch the month of July '02.

[ This Message was edited by: Lee Ann on 2003-11-15 18:04 ]

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The Troubled Teen Industry / Provo Canyon Residential Treatment Center
« on: June 06, 2003, 06:45:00 PM »
I am trying to help FIX the industry!  I do not simply sit at my computer all day and bash programs or people trying to help others.  I feel I am actually helping make Utah programs better!!
I visit programs OFTEN and when I see a problem, I contact the state.  For instance, on the 29th of May, I contacted state licensing and lodged a complaint regarding a program I had recently visited,yesterday that program was personally inspected.  I can't guarantee that things will change, but at least that program knows they are being watched and the state is aware of the infractions.
 
I know it looks like I am money hungry.  I wish you all knew how many times I give away my sevices.  I believe Provo Canyon is a LAST resort program.  I know this, you know this, but how do we get that across to new parents looking at this one and others that ARE NOT SAFE???  There are programs in the state that I would not send my dog to ~ and guess what?? These programs are FULL!!  120 kids jammed into unkept and unsupervised warehouses.  When a parent askes, you bet I am going to step up, and send them a different direction.  Sorry it sounds like a sales pitch, it's meant to be a SAVE pitch!  Watching parents being sold a bill of goods kills me.  So frustrating!! :mad:

On the other hand there are safe programs out there.  Unless you have walked the halls, looked at credentials, and more importantly talked with the students face to face, you don't know that.  I have done these things.

  I am only one voice here in Utah.  I can't be everywhere all the time.  Is there a group of people I can join to help make the necessary changes by going through the proper channels?  I am unaware of any but would be happy to lend my services to make this state a safer place for teens. I am in within 2 hours drive of 20 programs!  Lets put our heads together instead of bashing each other.
Lee Ann

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The Troubled Teen Industry / Provo Canyon Residential Treatment Center
« on: June 05, 2003, 08:28:00 PM »
Hi there,
I am very familiar with Utah programs. There are other, better, options out there. Trust me, Less restrictive is much better.  Hopefully this is meant as treatment not punishment.  Right?    
First, let me ask you a few questions.
1)  Have you exhausted ALL other forms of treatment?  i.e.  school counselor, individual therapy, etc?  
2)  What brought you to the decision to look for out-of-home placement?  
3)  Does your daughter know what you are planning?  Is she in agreement?  
4) are you planning to personally take her to the program or employ a transport company?
5) are you as parents willing to be invovled in her treatment?  or are you just happy to get her out of your home?  ( I ask this because some parents have the idea that out of sight out of mind.  NOT true!)  I HIGHLY suggest ( as do most reputable programs) that the family is ALSO in therapy/treatment at the same time as their teen.)  My experience is that the problem is a family affair.  Rarely does the teen just go on a wild tangent and run amuck all by themselves.  

Please feel free to call me. I'd be happy to talk with you at length regarding your situation.
Lee Ann   http://www.teensatrisk.net

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The Troubled Teen Industry / Lon of Strugglingteens.com is in it for the money
« on: May 26, 2003, 10:36:00 PM »
Hi all,
I have been out of town.  Hope everyone had a great Memorial weekend.  Non- Answers???

I am not ashamed of any of the programs I have worked at.  Skyline Journey, Kolob Canyon, Red Fern Ranch, Sorenson's Ranch and Aspen.  
As I believe I said earlier, they have all helped me better understand what a program should and should not be. I know I do a wonderful service for parents who are looking for a program.  For instance, just this past week I saved a kid from going to a program that I personally wouldn't send my dog too.  This is what I am trying to do.  Help parents make informed decisions! I keep getting attacked and all I am trying to do is keep parents from sending their child to a horrible place.  About 80% of the parents I talk to have already made up their minds about sending their teen away.  

I only refer to Utah programs.  And again I am selective to which programs I refer to.  I will NOT send a teen to ANY WWASP programs.

I believe TARRS is the only referral service including Ed. Cons, that have actually worked directly with kids at any program. (If anyone knows different, I would love to know).

There are some states that legal age is as low as 14!  That is unbelievable to me.  As far as I am concerned at 14 these kids are still babies.  Since 18 is the age of majority in Utah, parents can still have a say in what happens to their teen.  It has nothing to do with $$ for these programs.  I worked with a boy whose parents were so desperate that 3 hours before his 18th birthday, they had him escorted to Samoa where the legal age is 21.  Very extreme!!!

I agree, if people, mostly parents, were more invovled with what their kids were doing, there wouldn't be as great a need for "programs".  With a combinded family of 10 kids,( we had custody of all 10) trust me, I know how hard it is to be there for every kid ALL the time.  But it can be done. When it comes right down to it, all our kids really want is our time.
Lee Ann :smile:

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The Troubled Teen Industry / Lon of Strugglingteens.com is in it for the money
« on: May 23, 2003, 09:30:00 PM »
1.  Because of my longevity in the "industry"  I have had the opportunity to see, hear, experince and relate to parents.  I have seen unjust things go on  such as parents lied to, kids punished for the smallest infraction and programs NOT follow through with what they promise.  I know the truth of what goes on "behind closed doors" within these programs.  
2.  I am not qualified to diagnose.  I can tell the parents the difference between a quack and a good therapist/psychiatrist through personal knowledge ( mostly working directly with these folks in a program seting) Some of these professionals are great ~ others jerks.  
3.  I am very open to interviewing the teen.  I would prefer that the teen knows what is going on versus being dragged out of their bed in the middle of the night.  
4.  Yes.  I have rejected families.  I feel that an out-of-home placemnt is the LAST resort.  So many options to begin with.  Clergy, state human services, private therapy, school counselors etc.  One of the first things I ask a family is if they have exhausted all other forms of intervention.  
5.  I feel it is VERY important for the ENTIRE family to be getting treatment at the same time.  What good does it do a teen to learn skills that will help them in their lives,  then just return to the same nightmare. What a waste of time and money on the parents part and how frustrating for the teen.
6.  Yes.  I am FIRM that a program must be properly licensed.  I know that that does not guarantee a perfect program, but they have at least met the minimum requirements to have a facility open.  I have stated before that there are several "licensed" programs I WILL NOT refer to.  
7.  My state does not require licensing for out of state placement.  
8.  I require an ICPC to be submitted to the sending AND recieving state.  This means both an ICPC A on entering the state and an ICPC B when the program is completed.  An ICPC is the only way to make sure that the teen will recieve protection of the state child protective services.  
9.  I do have an $800.00 fee that barely covers the cost of all the services I provide.  I DO NOT charge programs for referring to their program.  This way I can be completely impartial as to the needs of the student.  Not just send all teens to one program that will pay upward of $2,000 per kid as many other referral servcies require.  Truth is, I personally know many folks that will ask a program up front if they will pay a fee.  If they say no, they will not refer to that program even if it would benefit the student the most.  That is SO wrong!
10. Usually the students that are placed within 48 - 72 hours are kids that are being dicharged from a hospital setting or a detention center.  The family may not feel safe with their teen at home or they feel they are not properly trained to address their teens demanding issues.  I certainly didn't mean that if a parent gets a wild hair I will be willing to help them have their child kidnapped and dragged off to a torture facility to help punish the kid.  
11.  Sorry to hear of the challenges you had with
an "Ed. Con."  I personally know many, many ed. cons that never leave their office, never meet the family and certainly NEVER visit their client once he/she arrives at the program.  Why be bothered.  They are able to collect upwards of $6,000.00 per student they refer.  What makes them so special?  Most sit in plush offices and could care less what is REALLY happening to their client.  At least I am willing to get dirty in the trenches helping parents fight, in some cases, for their kids lives.
 
Truth is I am on your side.  Parents are going to continue looking for help for their kids. I am not afraid to tell the truth about programs for the money.  Further damaging a teens life is not worth any amount of money. I am NOT in it for the profit.  And yes, if I was independantly wealthy, I would be doing this for free.
 
I hope this has answered some of your questions.   Lee Ann

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The Troubled Teen Industry / Lon of Strugglingteens.com is in it for the money
« on: May 22, 2003, 07:12:00 PM »
Hi everyone,
I am really sticking my neck out on the chopping block here.  I just wanted everyone to know that there are some folks, such as myself, that are NOT in it for the money.
 
I have worked in several different program environments and have seen the devastation the wrong program can cause kids.  I have also witnessed families that are being taken advantage of both financially and emotionally. On the other hand, I have seen kids that have grown tremendously with the help of loving parents and a good solid program that is able to address that teens individual issues.  I do not suggest the same program for every kid.  Each teen is an individual with their own special set of challenges.  
Trust me, Teens At Risk Referral Services is NOT in it for the money.  I only charge $800.00 for the entire length of stay regardless of the program.  That fee includes monthly contact with the program, reports to the family, and we VISIT the teen at the program often.  I'm sure right now there are many of you going "yeah, right!"  But yes, right.  I don't know of ANY other Ed. Consultant or referral source that actually takes the time to MAKE SURE the program they have suggested is RIGHT for the kid and the family.

OK, so why just Utah programs?  Because that is what we, at TARRS, know.  I have either worked with the owners/operators of the programs or have visited often enough to thoroughly understand each program.  Just an FYI  I DO NOT refer to ANY WWASP programs.  In my opinion~~ They are just CREEPY.  I have actually called to drop by and check them out for myself, and they told me they do not allow visitors.  What is that all about???  Truely makes you wonder what is going on behind those barred doors.  There are a couple of other programs I WILL NOT refer to.  Just because they are in Utah does not give them the green light in my eyes.  
So anyway guys, I feel my heart is in the right place.  I AM concerned about the kids.  I don't want to see any teen at a program if they really don't need one.  So many other options first.

Go ahead, chew me up and spit me out.  
http://www.teensatrisk.net
Lee Ann

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