Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - pII

Pages: [1]
1
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: If You had the chance to speak at NATSAP
« on: June 29, 2009, 10:17:33 PM »
I know I said I would not be back, but that was primarily to avoid this kind of thing.  However I really think it's important to clarify some things here.

1.  This business is not being "promoted" by psychiatrists on any level as the best solution for "at risk" teens.  

2.  The Cafety post, while good, is not really a statement by the APA condeming TBS's, but types of treatments and tortures...

3.  Some of these places have pyschologists on board who are fully affiliated with the APA.

4.  The APA is an organization which NEEDS to be educated about what these places really do and the types of "therapies" they use and the discredited nature of these therapies, which is why I hope people like Psy and now, I think, Ursus, really need to be out there doing some educational work, citing studies, in as dispassionate a way as possible.  The less emotion the better in this case.  And no words like "bullshit" because they make you less credible, whether they should or should not.

5. Nobody is referring anyone "en masse" anywhere.  Psychiatrists do not make placements all the time, or even all that often, so there is no way they could be driving this business.  I was simply saying they sometimes do.  Sometimes.  In my opinion, that's too many times.

But don't turn this into some kind of thing where people are not trying to say this is a good solution to teen issues, because I don't really think anyone is on record here saying it is.

The other thing, to the antagonistic poster.  I'm sure you felt offended, but it is really important to remember here that these are people who have been damaged in unimaginable ways by this industry.  Some of them seem to have lost thier lives to this.  Of course they are angry and suspicious.  It only makes sense.

I hope you guys will put together as much relevent scientific evidence as you can, as many case studies as you can get ahold of, and get this information out there in the most professional and credible way that you can.  In addition to everything else you are doing, I think it would help your cause.

Now, I really am leaving.  (Unless someone tries to turn this into some sort of endorsement or something.  In which case I suppose I'll be back to be clear again that I am a NO! vote on this stuff.)  And a yes vote at the very least for exceeding stringent oversight.

2
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: If You had the chance to speak at NATSAP
« on: June 29, 2009, 12:52:14 AM »
Guest--

I'm not a "calo" parent.

I'm a mental health professional.  I do not refer to these "schools" nor do I refer to edcons who refer to these "schools."  "First do no harm."

But, the truth is that some do, and not the unlicensed or un-credible, either.  There are some pretty well-respected psychiatrists who recommend placements at these places, out of ignorance, as psy pointed out.  

The first time I ran across these places I was actually hoping to find a placement for a couple of kids who imo were not mentally ill, but they were acting up in self-destructive ways.  The parents were not abusive or even neglectful, just ill-equiped to handle some very bright, very sensitive kids who were not fitting in very well at the local school or in the local community.  I knew all they needed was some time to grow up and a little bit of homework supervision.  A colleague recommended a TBS.  I can say that I when I looked into what these places were doing, I thought it would be damaging and recommended some normal boarding schools for them, the kind with a telephone in the room and christmas and spring and summer breaks.  It turned out just fine.

That was when I first encountered this industry.  Since then, though, I have really become aware than my colleagues do refer.  And I'm really not talking about mail order psy D's here, either, I'm talking full on, highly ranked medical school graduates.  This is the only reason I feel speaking to these kinds of groups would be useful.

As a mental health professional I wish they were better regulated and overseen though, mostly just because as the laws become harsher and harsher regarding holding parents legally responsible for adolescent acting out, these places become attractive to people who would never have considered them even twenty years ago.  So, to me, it's very frightening.  I'm glad you will be heard.  I hope you will find a way to be heard even more often by people who make these kinds of choices when it comes to kids.

That's all.

As I said, good luck.  I hope maybe you could do more than a law suit every 30 years.  Maybe now that Congrss and the Senate are looking into it more closely, you can have some better result.

I won't be back.  I have my own work to focus on and I'm not a vested party in this conversation.  I'll keep giving my negative opinion to my colleagues.   You keep giving yours.

3
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: If You had the chance to speak at NATSAP
« on: June 28, 2009, 08:01:04 AM »
I have no interest, at all, in arguing for or against these places.  I am aware that incredible damage has been done here, and nobody needs to read this forum for more than about five minutes to realize a lot of these poster's are adults and that they are still in pain over what happened to them at these "schools."  That's not why I posted.

I posted simply because I can see that you are already making a difference, even if it is not the way you want to make a difference, and just to encourage you to continue.  (Though I really doubt you need my encouragement for that, anyway.)  Also, I know that powerful people, who effect real change, frequently work both inside and outside of systems.  I 'get' your perspective, however, and I do believe that forced treatment assists noone.

I think, however, you are sometimes misguided and believe it is only edcons who are referring to these places and it is not. Pychiatrists, well-respected pyschiatrists, refer to them, as well.  Granted this is to "schools" where kids can leave and places where they are not "held," but some of these places where kids do get kicked out pretty regularly, still use at least some of the methods you abhor (rightfully so), and these were the institutions I was thinking you might infuence and already have begun to influence.

Whether or not these places will all ultimately shut down is up for debate, though very improbable, honestly, however HOW they operate and how they treat, seems to be something they are beginning to reflect on, to at least some extent, and partially because of the work you have done, collectively, to get this in front of congress and the senate and state agencies, as well.

 good luck with your mission.  I'm sure if anyone can make that happen, it would be you guys.

4
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: If You had the chance to speak at NATSAP
« on: June 27, 2009, 09:15:49 AM »
Oh, and pys--as they move more and more towards regulating these places, I really hope you will involve yourself in this, as a professional.

I know that outsider status can be really appealing, and I really do 'get' that, but I also think involving yourself on the inside, getting legitimate political power, which obviously, you have already gotten a certain amount of respect, and you two ought to consider getting involved politically from the inside to effect real change in this industry.  Children cannot speak for themselves, politically.  Parents, by the time they are being refered to these places by psychiatrists are absolutely desperate and therefore really cannot speak for themselves.  Somebody who is calm, educated and dispassionate could really have an incredible effect on the nature of these places and on what is being offered, as well.

I know you probably want to believe you can eliminate the TBS's completely, but I don't believe it can be done.  There is a long tradition of super-successful leaders emerging from military schools (where they were sent for being discipline problems as kids).  I think this is simply the "military school" of the times, and people like you could really change things.

5
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: If You had the chance to speak at NATSAP
« on: June 27, 2009, 08:43:49 AM »
If you have an opportunity to speak at NATSAP, do it.

The people you need to get to are the edons, more than anything.  They are the ones the parents listen to.

Don't believe you are not having an effect.  There are TBS's who are already changing thier programs to disinclude old synanon stuff and to add only licensed therapists because of your watchdog work.  Places where they don't "accept" everyone and refer students elsewhere if they don't feel they can handle them, where the students are free to leave if they do not want to commit to staying, regardless of whether or not the parents want them to stay.

You want to get to the NATSAP people, because they are the ones the adolescent psychiatrists send the parents to see when it is determined the child needs a placement.  You may not get rid of programs, there is a percieved need for them in this country where parents can be sent to prison for thier children being overwieght or having a beer party at thier house, but you could effect the methods of treatment, which are already changing at the 'better' places, and that might be a valuabe goal, to start with.

Stay with the facts and the research--no emotional appeals.  Psy, in particular, is very clear on the origins of the less effective treatment methods and the discredited nature of a lot of those methods.  

The next group you need to find a way to address is the adolescent psychiatrists, because regardless of what you might think, they really are refering kids to these places, and you need to make it clear that many do not have lisenced therapists on board, though, these days, many more do.

Good luck.  I don't believe you will get rid of TBS's, but I do believe you could have an effect on the treatment methods, and I believe your work already has influenced some programs in a positive way, to include lisenced staff and to get rid of restraint, and at least some of the double-bind, break them down techniques from the past.

Pages: [1]