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Messages - Gopher_dcgn

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1
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Re: CBC Fifth Estate AARC piece
« on: February 14, 2009, 10:32:51 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Gopher_dcgn"
Speaking of convenience, you conveniently left out the rest of my sentence. If you combine the convenience aspect with a smooth and coercive salesperson, you get a dangerous combination..

I never met Doc V until my first Tuesday parent rap. Never heard him speak, never heard his claims.

We put our daughter there because my niece was pulled off the streets doing meth. She graduated and it was her recovery that got us there. No salesman involved, just another success story, something you seem unwilling to recognize.

You put your daughter there, because your niece was doing meth? So your daughter wasn't even doing drugs? And on top of it you didn't even bother to talk to the head of the program who personally conducts many therapy sessions? You sound very irresponsible.

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Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Re: CBC Fifth Estate AARC piece
« on: February 14, 2009, 10:28:56 PM »
Quote from: "gues63"
the vast majority of parents who look into AARC decide against it because of the time commitments. The ones who are there decided that it was worth whatever we had to do. You obviously are not intimately aware of what is involved if you think we put our kids there in order to get more free time for our social lives.

Well you certainly seem intimately aware of why or why not parents decide against joining AARC. Tell me, are you an AARC employee?

Quote from: "gues63"
Actually, CBC strongly implied that it was ordered by the staff. They allowed Rachel to claim it was done to teach her "powerlessness". Who else would be in charge of teaching her "powerlessness"? This part of the documentary is grounds for a very large legal suite.

The reality is that any workplace has the possibility of a rape occurring, including CBC's HQ, my office, and wherever you work. I have never claimed it didn't happen but it is a huge stretch to assert that it was ordered by AARC staff to teach her "powerlessness"

I wasn't claiming it happened, I was being facetious. I don't believe they ordered it. However they did provide an environment where it was allowed to happen. And is it so hard to believe that, in a program that highlights being powerless as a therapy technique, that the rapist (acting alone or not) would also use such language?

Quote from: "gues63"
AARC has had there success measured by a US firm interested in addiction recovery. It is the only factual survey. I guess this does not have the same validity as your assertions on an internet forum but it will have to do.

Right, but the numbers that were analyzed by this other firm came directly from AARC instead of being collected by the firm. This does not sound very independent.

3
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Re: CBC Fifth Estate AARC piece
« on: February 14, 2009, 10:21:29 PM »
That last post was me - forgot to login.

4
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Re: CBC Fifth Estate AARC piece
« on: February 14, 2009, 08:27:19 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Gopher_dcgn"
If only parents out there weren't so willing to ship their kids away for their own selfish convenience
Ah, You blew your credibility and your whole argument out of the water with that last statement.  You obviously don’t understand any of this, especially regarding the parents with a child in trouble.  If you ever took the time to speak to any parents of children in programs randomly (regardless whether the parents are for or against programs) you would know their decision was never one of convenience.

Of course the parents would claim that the decision is not out of convenience, therefore you're right, they would tell me it wasn't. That doesn't mean that convenience doesn't factor into the decision making process of the parent, (as it should, convenience is important to everyone). Speaking of convenience, you conveniently left out the rest of my sentence. If you combine the convenience aspect with a smooth and coercive salesperson, you get a dangerous combination. Hey, we're sending our kid to the BEST rehab center (80% success rate!), and on top of it there's the unspoken benefit of not having to deal with a problematic teen. The problem is of course, the claims of the rehab center are exaggerated and the parents don't investigate the claims thoroughly because it all seems like such a perfect solution.

And don't tell me I don't understand parents with "troubled" children, you don't know me, but I won't bore you with emotional and anecdotal evidence that would be thrown out in any scientific study. I have little respect for parents who put their kids in these programs and then when confronted with the evidence of the abuses by these programs STILL deny that there's anything wrong here.

5
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Re: CBC Fifth Estate AARC piece
« on: February 14, 2009, 07:15:37 PM »
Quote from: "guest63"
i would like to clear up a few misconceptions, probably a waste of my time but you never know

1)  I would like to thank all of you for your concerns regarding fees, food, host homes, fund raising  etc.  It is nice to know that people care about my time and money. I can assure you that I, along with 99% of AARC graduate parents, would do the program again despite all these extra things. Please save your concerns for those who really want them. I have yet to meet a parent who would not put a 2nd kid into the program because of the extras.

Well you're obviously not looking very hard. I'd like to see some evidence of your 99% claim. Simply saying it doesn't make it true, in fact it makes your story lose credibility.

Quote from: "guest63"
2) The CBC documentary had a laughable assertion - that parents put non-addicted kids into the program because we have "issues" we can't handle. I can't even begin to think how to refute this as it is one of the dumbest assertions I have ever heard. My daughter's heart stopped because of a cocaine OD and she used two days later. That is a common story that the kids have coming into AARC. The reality is that if all parents knew the full extent of their kids abuses, we would need 100 AARCs in Canada.

Again you're back to spouting unsupported superlatives and anecdotal stories. If you only knew how many terrible parents are out there who are eager to sign away their kids because they're too preoccupied with their social life or work, you'd need 100 AARC's for parents. (See I can make unsupported claims too!) Edit: Bolded is sarcasm for those who didn't get it

Quote from: "guest63"
3) Rachel, I am not certain if this was your intent, but the documentary seemed to imply that the rapists were directed by AARC to do this in order to teach you "powerlessness". I am completely stunned that anyone could actually believe this. We all know that you have suffered from psychosis but do you really think that Doc V and Mrs I ordered a rape? I am pretty sure this was a case of the CBC putting their slant on a story but this is how it came out.

Nobody claimed that they ordered the rape, but the fact that someone defending AARC would jump to that conclusion is troubling (if you're getting defensive about something that was never claimed, maybe it was ordered?). As far as I'm concerned, presiding over and not investigating claims of rape and abuse is just as bad as ordering it. Also, the fact that you use the same tactics as AARC to discredit Rachael saying she "suffered from psychosis" - as if that means for the rest of her life anything she says should be discounted - makes you again lose all kinds of credibility. You're not doing a very good job of convincing.

Quote from: "guest63"
4) The documentary says that normal programs offer a 30-40% success rate. We had our kid in AADAC until we found out that only 4% of their clients found sobriety. I would have loved to avoid the time and cost of AARC but it was the last resort. This actually brings up another point.  The critics of AARC seem to focus on what they think are mistakes. I wish that there was an aspect of psychology that had 100% success in anything but that clearly isn't the case. Yeah, mistakes get made but the vast majority of families are helped.

Actually the documentary says that the normal programs claim 30-40% success rates. AARC merely claims an 80% success rate, with no independent verification. See: http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/2008-2009/power ... study.html

Once again you make claims that are not backed up by anything. There's no independently verified evidence that the majority of families are helped, nor do you explain what your measure of "help" is. And why shouldn't people focus on the mistakes of AARC? They seem to be making enough of them.

The fact that you imply what they do is an "aspect of psychology" is also bewildering. What goes on at AARC is entirely at odds with every psychological school of thought. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ps ... al_schools

Quote from: "guest63"
I hope critics of AARC don't hold themselves to the same level of expectation that they hold AARC.

It wouldn't be very hard, it's only common sense. If only parents out there weren't so willing to ship their kids away for their own selfish convenience, or because they were duped by a smooth talking con man. If you're really a parent and not just an AARC shill (which I doubt), then I feel sorry for you because I know it's hard as an adult to admit to making mistakes, but I would urge you to take a look at independently verified evidence - don't take the claims of anyone at face value, especially when they're too good to be true.

6
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: AARC Expose - Feb. 13th
« on: February 14, 2009, 01:31:56 AM »
Yeah, they only alluded to the coercion and brainwashing of parents aspect.

I would imagine it's difficult to get a parent on camera admitting they put their child in an abusive situation. So I'm afraid you're right about the current students. But if government and corporate funding gets cut it might be enough to kill it off, or price it out of the range of most parents.

7
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: AARC Expose - Feb. 13th
« on: February 14, 2009, 01:21:52 AM »
Quote from: "psy"
So how did you become interested in this topic?  Just sparked your interest?
In any case, welcome to Fornits, home to survivors of all sorts of shitpits like AARC.

I was simply watching CBC HD and watched the whole program.

Then I found this site through Google: http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=%22 ... arch&meta=

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The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: AARC Expose - Feb. 13th
« on: February 14, 2009, 12:42:46 AM »
Yeah, I think so too.

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The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: AARC Expose - Feb. 13th
« on: February 13, 2009, 11:47:02 PM »
You can watch the whole episode here: http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/2008-2009/powerless/video.html

10
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Re: CBC Fifth Estate AARC piece
« on: February 13, 2009, 11:37:11 PM »
Isn't it funny how, if AARC has nothing to hide, why have they now altered their website homepage with language trying to discredit any "critical stories".

I love you Google cache.

Compare their old homepage: http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:hdy ... =firefox-a

And their current one (they just updated it): http://www.aarc.ab.ca/index.php

11
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Re: CBC Fifth Estate AARC piece
« on: February 13, 2009, 11:19:47 PM »
Wow, I just watched the program on the Fifth Estate, and I found this post by Googling your name Rachael.

I'm just astounded and outraged that such a program could exist in Canada. I'm not going to try to convince you of what you already know, suffice to say that I support you Rachael 100% and you are a very brave, credible, rational and articulate woman.  :notworthy:  :notworthy:

The story has been submitted to Reddit.com, if you like you can vote for it to help this appalling injustice be exposed.

http://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments ... umiliates/

Much love from Montreal.

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