Fornits

Fornits Home for Wayward Web Fora
An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

Finally!  Something to write on.  It’s been a while my friends!

Hi Cactor,

I think you’re smart in questioning the conditions of a facility.  That’s the only way you can feel more secure in the future.  

In order to make a good decision, I think you have to question the source of this information.  This is not a balanced forum in the least.  Please do a search on my past posts (Function Junction) to find out what happens when you simply question the accusations from those on Fornits.  One of my favorites (you’ll probably see him in a little bit) wondered whether I’d challenge the posts on a Holocaust Survivors Forum since I seem to challenge the accusations of people on this website.  In other words, this person thinks I’d question a heavily documented tragedy vs. a website that makes accusations of abuse without any documentation.  

I started out on this forum trying to find solid support of abuse.  All I saw were posts of people saying they are “survivors”, but the only support was other people’s posts rather than past court cases, investigations that reported abuse, etc.  After several challenges on the facts, I started realizing I wasn’t going to get them.  I called CPS to find out if there were any positive findings of abuse, they said no.  The recent court case doesn’t mention any abuse.  I’d think that would be one of the chief contentions in a court case given the reports stated on Fornits, but it’s not there.  I’d encourage you to read the judge’s decisions which are also highly critical of the merits of the case and the plaintiff’s attorneys.  I’m interested to find out what the judge is going to say in the end.  I’ve always made it very clear I don’t support abuse; if the accusations are proven to be true, I will join the fight to make sure they get the legal consequences.  There isn’t an organization out there that would be in existence for 13 years and avoid prosecution for abuse.  I don’t think HLA has the money or clout to control government agencies.

Keep one thing in mind; the angrier Fornits people get, the more they will start relying on insults to hide the insecurity with not having any solid evidence.  They even said you were posting “bullshit” because it was a little more objective.  I’ll post a link here that describes the patterns I’ve seen from those on Fornits. http://http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21088&start=110
Look to see if you see the same patterns as well.  Most of the people who write on here don’t have lives outside of this forum.  I say this because many of them have over 3000 posts on Fornits alone.  Most also post on MySpace.  My favorite guy posts on at least 3 sites under different names.

Watch what happens when I simply put this out there:  In order to make a decision, find someone who had a positive experience along with the ones who had a negative experience, take a tour of the place, and talk to the staff to get answers.  If I were reading this, I’d also call government agencies that would be involved in investigating the claims posted on this website.  At that point, make your decision.  Let’s watch and see how the “benevolent” people of Fornits respond to a simple tip that most people do when making a decision.
Love and Peace to All!
 ::kiss::  ::dove::  ::peace::

Hey friends!  I'm inviting others to get involved in these discussions.  This is starting to become the FJ/RB variety show which gets really b-o-r-i-n-g after a while.

Now, back to my buddy Robert.

Not at all, it's just you arent very good at covering your tracks and our people are smarter then all of yours.

Yeah!  And my dad can beat up your dad!  Whoops, sorry, that "our people are smarter" comment brought me back to Kindergarten.  I'm not here to represent other people.  They can post for themselves.  Once again, have someone other than your "people" check the IP address to find out I'm just one person.  It's not a conspiracy, Princess.

Like I said Mac, you work at a place that used to claim to treat homosexuality. Perhaps you should make use of those treatments, I'm sure they're very effective.

Wow!  What a come back!  Sounding a little irritable today.  Aww, come on Robert, I thought you said this banter was going to be fun.  Here's a trip down memory lane.  Ah, memories...

Quote: April 3, 2007 from Function Junction
This is too important and too much fun!

Robert Bruce: You got that right.

I think I know a cranky little fella that needs a summertime icy treat!

At what point did I claim you were John McMillion?

You're right.  Since you're calling me "Mac" and your compatriots keep thinking I'm John, I took a giant, enormous leap and assumed you still think I'm John "Mac"Milon.  "Mac"?  I'm actually a Windows guy myself.

I never claimed to have a definitive answer Mac, hence why I asked the question. Did Len lie to parents or was he merely playing to the judges sympathy? You claimed earlier not to know at which point I directed that you should ask Len, considering you see him several times a week. Apparently you werent able to work up the courage to do that so we'll leave it alone for the time being. Instead let me put this to you: Let's pretend that youre correct and the finacial situation at HLA did change drastically for the better. If that's true why hasn't Len informed the judge? Shouldn't he be told of any major changes that occur? Shouldn't he have all the information needed in order to make a fair decsion? You get back to me on that Mac.

So after having to post and explain myself several times, we find out you agree with me??  Since we don't have a definitive answer, yours and my answer to this question is We Don't Know.  Once again, if we had the financial records from that time, we could make a definitive judgement.  If he lied, he needs to get the just punishment.  
As far as informing the judge, if HLA may be constantly in imminent danger of closing, but they are able to get the funds secured to take them through a period of time.  In that case, it would still meet the definition of "imminent".  I really don't know.  I don't know what the judge has and hasn't been told.  Maybe he's been informed of this, maybe not.  The judge is obviously able to ask any question he wants and sees important to his judgement.  I expect HLA to tell the truth and not commit perjury.  He didn't do this in secret, so I'm sure between the multiple attorneys and a judge, proper procedure will be followed.  Of course you can call them and tell them you're the infamous Robert-The-Bruce, and have a vast knowledge of court procedure.  Hazaaa!!

There's no grasping at straws Mac, I remember you and how aclose minded and bigoted you came across.

Whaaa?  I honestly don't know what you mean.  I don't think I've ever posted anything bigoted or close-minded.  Please point to where I've said things like this.

It sure is! Really though I don't know where you got the idea that I was talking about HLA. I mentioned nothing specific, just like you. I merely made reference to an unnamed school in Georgia that abuses kids and circumvents the law. There are probably thousands of schools in Georgia, you have no clue which on I'm refering to. Don't pretend otherwise.

You're absolutely right.  I was jumping to conclusions.  How could I think of such a thing after your over 3,000 posts?  Silly me.  It's just that damn deductive reasoning that always gets me in trouble!  Thanks for clarifying.

Have kids on restriction ever been made to move large rocks or railroad ties around for no reason?

I don't know.

What did the restriction diet consist of?

I don't know.  I've read from you it was one peanut butter sandwich, milk, and some other stuff.  My point has always been I'm willing to find the truth, but you and this site aren't trustworthy.  I apologize to those who may have legitimate experiences.  I just don't know who to believe.

What was the longest any kid was ever on restriction?

I don't know.  If someone were doing something borderline illegal, I hope they'd be on restriction for a while just to keep an eye on them.  However, I have no idea how long this period of time was.

Describe what the calistentics is like while on restrictions.

Pushups, lunges, jumping jacks, & sit-ups in dorms, on the field, in the gym.  That's the extent to which I know.

Are kids ever kept out in the elements for extended periods of time while on restriction?

I'm sure this is true, but I'm not really sure what an extended period of time is.  I have been outside for extended periods of time in intense cold (Colorado) and blistering heat (Nevada).  It would really depend on the specifics.  The kid would have to have proper clothing to do it.  If it were intense cold without at least a jacket, gloves, and pants (that's what I wear), it would be wrong.  I'd have a huge problem with that.

Do the kids ever do work that personally benefits the staff at HLA?

I'm really not sure on this.  Legally, staff can't force a kid to do this.  If a student volunteers to do this without any compensation, it's different.  Are you talking about raking leaves for the campus, or picking up a staff member's dry cleaning?  There's a difference between doing chores that benefit the campus, and solicited work to benefit a staff member.

Is withholding contact between the student and his/her family theraputic?

Yes, if a kid or a parent is verbally abusing the other, they need to have some time apart.  I assume it would also help a kid work on accommodating to the new environment.  Once again, you need to be specific with what you mean.  Check this out with other facilities.  From what I understand, limiting phone calls is pretty standard practice at treatment facilities.

I'm also still waiting on you to provide those reports from CPS proving that no abuse was ever found at HLA. Honestly Mac, it's been like a month. What's the hold up?

Memory problems Princess?  I've told you people don't need to prove innocence, just guilt.  Many people on this site have claimed abuse, yet there haven't been any findings of this by the state.  I opened this up to others to show the documentation of abuse.  I haven't seen anything yet.  My thinking is, if the abuse was happening, at least one or two "victims" would have filed a report with CPS.  I'm sure by now, documentation of a positive finding of abuse would have been posted on this site several times.  It should be easy for these people to come forward and point to a time when they reported this to CPS and the school was found to have committed abuse.  It's very easy to accuse on an anonymous site.  Ask your compatriots to get on finding these reports to satisfy your inquisitiveness.

Really? Please provide an example. You've got over 3000 post to pull from, it shouldn't be too hard even for you.

I did just a brief search and found these three links.  i was surprised at how little time it really took.  I encourage everyone to click on them to read.

http://http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=13415  People accusing you of being someone else.  Is that where your thinking I'm multiple people comes from?  You reacting from past scary memories?  Calling someone a retard and a child abuser?  Not the most uplifting.

http://http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12691&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30  You are calling people names.  In fact, you must have been afflicted with a little Tourette’s based on the level of name-calling and disrespect you used toward Cindy.  Most of this whole thread is filled with mean-spirited comments by you.  What's your deal with Cindy?

http://http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21088&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=robert+bruce+shh&start=60
RB calling someone a child abuse apologist.  I didn’t see any posts showing this person endorsed child abuse, just that they disagreed with you.

Unfortunately, you're right about it being easy to find among your 3000 posts.  If I had that easy of a time finding 3 links, how many other posts like this do you have?

Not really. Just because the information is incorrect doesnt change the fact that you believe it to be true and posted it in an effort to damage her reputation. Almost sounds like libel doesnt it?

Her reputation outside of Fornits isn't exactly stellar.  She's done plenty of damage to herself.  The regular anti-HLA people regularly make a habit of seeking to damage the reputations of posters that disagree with your point of view.  Once again, it's interesting how morality and courtesy seem to be a focus with you guys when the tables are turned.  Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Oh Mac, you so crazy! Please rest assured you couldnt hurt me or anyone else for that matter even if you were armed to the teeth. You just don't have it in you. Your attempts are laughable at best, but we all know youve been ordered to post here, and given a script as well. It's okay really. To answer you here is the post in question.

Great news Princess!  I'm glad you're not hurt.  You just threw me when you were getting cranky over a couple of names.  I don't want my little sensitive guy to dish it out, but not be able to take it.  The link you provided didn't show comments I made towards you.

Special orders and a script?  Damn, ya got me!  I'm Special Ops.  I'm part of an elite mercenary posting force sent by The Man to undermine your efforts to restore truth, justice, and the American Way to the ignorant masses.  Damn you freedom fighters!

Just scroll all the way to the bottom of the page, there's you when one of your other personalities was at the wheel. Again Mac you aren't very good at covering your tracks and our people are smarter then yours.

Once again you're putting all your eggs in one basket.  If you want to believe I'm every anti-anti-HLA person, I can't stop you.  You can speculate.  And once again, MY DAD CAN BEAT UP YOUR DAD!!!  Whoops, that flashback to Kindergarten again.  Damn your witty responses!

Threatened by what Mac? You've apparently misconstrued my comments, I was reaching out to you in friendship and concern. The fact that none of the voices in your head are communicating is a real concern. If you aren't willing to watch "Identity" maybe you could try "Fight Club"?

You sure watch a lot of movies don't you, Princess?  Thanks for your friendship, BFF.  

No Mac, they're your claims, you back them up. You claimed I knew your claims to be true, when in fact I know them to be false. Now here's your opportunity to back up your statement. Let's see if you can.

See your above posts.
 

Also keep in mind the difference between my dispariging comments towards people and yours is that I don't have to make things up, you do.

  Reference the links I posted from your past disparaging posts towards others.

Then by all means provide specific examples of what you believe I should apologize for. Don't resort to generalizations just because you don't have anything, and don't get upset and start fabricating things because you've made yourself look stupid again.

See links to your comments above.  Feel free to start your apologies to these people.

So then it's just some vast left wing conspiracy that's out to get you? We can't all be lying Mac. As far as what you've brought to the conversation, balance isn't needed when we're the ones in the right. Let me ask you the same thing I asked Cindy (since you seem to want to emmulate him so much). Would you go to a Holocaust survivors forum and start posting claims that the Holocaust never happened just so you could "bring a little more balance"? Face it Mac, youre nothing more than the token lap dog whose been sent to try and disrupt the forum and prevent the truth from being discovered. The funniest part about it is you puppets try the same things over and over again and can't ever seem to get it right. Why is that Mac?

Not sure how I'm "preventing the truth" from being discovered.  I'm just one person.  I appreciate the comment that somehow my few comments can disrupt the fabric of this noble forum.  I disagree with that, but you are open to that opinion of me.  Let's leave the Illuminati-like theories to others.

Your bizarre comparison of my questioning your claims to refuting the existence of the Holocaust has to be the most ignorant & childish things I've ever seen you write.  You are honestly saying my comments on the Fornits website are equivalent to casting doubt on a Holocaust forum that discusses one of the most documented events in history where approximately 6 million Jews were gased & incinerated?  You're right, this is JUST like a Holocaust survivors forum.  You got me. I'm speechless.
Beyond this, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and believe you and others are not comparing yourselves to Holocaust survivors. But please, by all means, correct me if that is the wrong assumption.

All right, we made some progress.  We agree we don't know if Dr. Buccelatto lied & you have my answers to your questions.  We've had some fun jabbing each other here and there, but I think you'll agree it detracts from a discussion on the issues.  Are there any other further issues you need to discuss?

Good night,
FJ   ::dove::  ::rainbow::  ::peace::

Try and keep your mind out of the gutter for just a moment or two allright?

Can't help it Robert.  It's your bathrobe; it makes me frisky. ::roflmao::  ::roflmao::

I'm not sure how much more I can clarify this.  I am very well aware of the definition of "imminent".  I'm sure at that time it was probably going to close within a short period of time.  My point is there was two months to find some financial resources between the affidavit and letter to parents.  If he put out a letter at the same time as the affidavit, he would have lied and I would ask for him to get the consequences of lying or perjury.  However, this wasn't the case.  I'm glad you pulled out your dictionary, but it appears as though you think imminent means there isn't any way to avoid it regardless of additional resources.  Notice the word "likely" in your definition. This is not the same as the word "definite".  I keep repeating this because you don't seem to understand my answer to your question "Did he lie to parents?"  Once again, my answer is I don't know.  I haven't ever avoided the question, I'm just giving you an answer you apparently don't want to hear.  I don't know if he lied because at the time of the affidavit, the school was probably going to close within a short time - maybe within the month.  As a business owner, he could have sought out financial resources to keep the school going beyond this period of time whether through layoffs, stock and bond sales, contributions from others, etc.  At the same time, it's possible he knew the school would be able to last a good period of time and wrote an affidavit that wasn't true.  Therefore, I don't know.  I don't think anyone will ever know for sure, just have an opinion.  Once again, there isn't enough information for anyone to make this determination.  Your opinion would never see the light of day in court because the judge and attorneys would need to conduct discovery to back the opinion.  If I could conduct discovery, I could give you a definitive answer, but I can't.

Yes, it's okay in my opinion to voice an opinion about a group of people, but not an individual.  It's not directly accusing anyone of a crime, but is pointing to probable suspects.  That isn't unusual Robert.  People off and on this site regularly voice opinions of government officials, attorneys, etc.  However, it is not okay to name a specific person and accuse them of a serious crime without any solid evidence.  I hope you understand what I'm saying, but I'm sure I'll have to restate it and break it down further (sigh, yawn).  I'm sorry Robert, but many of your comments meant to answer my posts really look like you are grasping at straws.  I know you'll disagree with this, but many others have said the same thing who I've asked to read the posts.  If I break my comments down any further, I'm going to break out the hand puppets.

I don't believe I ever called you a homophobe.  If I did, I'm sure you'll cut and paste it for me.  So please do; I'm curious.

My comments toward Deborah were based in fact and you know this.  Maligning is calling someone names, saying untrue things about them.  Read the court documents to see if it's true; it's public record.  However, I will do something I haven't ever seen you or any other anti-HLA person do - apologize.  Deborah, I'm sorry I brought this up.  I hope you are able to remember how you and your friends felt when reading the statement and use it to avoid doing the same to others.  I will be watching to see if you start saying hurtful things to others.  Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

For you and others, please visit this link to review my comments on the many techniques anti-HLA people use when they get nervous.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21088&start=110

Good night!  Hugs to all!
   ::dove::  ::seg:: ::alieneyesa::

Did he lie?  I have no idea.  Note the date on the affidavit is February 2nd and the date of the letter is April 25.  That's enough time to put financial resources together.  I also don't see where he said the school would close, just that the school is imminently in danger of being closed.  I haven't thought he was the best businessman, but maybe I should give him more credit if he put together resources to keep the school going.  Now, when the next person says, "He must have done something illegal to get that money!", please point to facts or evidence that he (not another employee or the school) did.  I post plenty of assumptions on here, but I don't believe I've ever accused someone of a serious crime without hard evidence.  If he did something illegal, I hope he gets whatever consequences are in the law.

I'd need more information to make a judgement like this.  If he lied, I'll back you on calling it a lie.  I don't support people who are intentionally deceptive.  I'm not here to drink the cool-aid, just poke holes in assumptions.

Parents and other objective parties.  Please watch to see how long it takes for the responses to turn into cursing and maligning.
I think there's only been a couple posts disagreeing with me that have been intelligent, good arguments, and respectful.

Now let's see who you accuse me of being.  I'm really enjoying the guessing!  I'm starting to think about actually going under a bunch of other pseudonyms.  That could actually be kind of fun.  Thanks for the suggestion!

Love you guys!

My goodness you guys are predictable!   ::roflmao::  
When someone challenges an anti-HLA perspective, the anti-HLA'ers get threatened and throw temper-tantrums.  It's fascinating to hear people who claim having been abused are themselves verbally abusive to others.  Rather than boring myself and others about the predictable patterns I've seen from the anti-HLA'ers, please look at this link below:

http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=255238#255238

I'll try to keep this short since my posts tend to look like legal briefs (they bore me some times).  Yawn is right RB!
Here are the reasons I don't think Dr. B torched or hired someone to burn the place:
1.  Insurance companies don't automatically pay a claim.  In fact, they are pretty good at spotting insurance fraud.  Any sign of this would delay or prevent payment.  It's too much of a risk to wind up having to pay for a new building, a lawyer to defend a case of insurance fraud, and the present attorneys.  By the way, the comment about Dr. B skulking aroun in a cat suit  was just a joke.  It seems as though someone took it too seriously.
2.  It's hard to believe an HLA-supporter would try to commit the stupid act of insurance fraud around the same time as graduation.  It would be an embarrassment, which isn't needed at this time.  I think this was done by an anti-HLA'er (one of the delightful people from Fornits?) who is trying to embarrass HLA and try to close the school since it's still operating.
3.  If someone were ridiculously stupid enough to commit insurance fraud, they would torch a building that isn't connected to others to minimize the collateral damage.  According to the satellite view, there is one down by the lake, one across from the burned Academic Building, the Cafeteria, or the Gym.  This person probably wanted to torch the middle building with the hope of burning the other two buildings on each side and possibly the surrounding forest.

Maybe you just need some hugs.  I'm sending out this e-hug with much luv to all of those peeps, to use a hip colloquialism. ((O)) (that's a pathetic looking hug, but still full of love for all of you.  I'm not good at these emoticons)

(No anti-HLA'ers were harmed during the scribing of this post)

I thought I'd take a break from my "real life" and check in.  I need to compliment most of the people posting.  It's nice to see people can disagree (pretty strongly at times), but stay away from cursing and name-calling that always shows lack of confidence and/or substantial information.

On the reports of mistreatment by staff.  I'm sorry, but after reading reports of "killer black mold", suspicions or "reports from a very good source" of Dr. Buccelatto having employees as sex slaves/involuntary partners, defaming of others who write contradictory opinions or testimonials, it's hard for me to know if the reports of mistreatment are true or how much is true.
For the record, I don't endorse any form of mistreatment.
It's really a shame that there are some respectable people possibly stating some truth, but the believability is damaged by those that can't seem to stay away from half-truths, delete posts that are more pro-HLA or challenge negative reports (this is a regular occurrence), and/or try their best to malign someone who is challenging their opinion/report.

I still have a great deal of difficulty believing any possible mistreatment was endorsed by the HLA administration in addition to the person who possibly did it.  A poster said they recalled an incident where kids were forced to "wade into the middle of the lake for the purpose of doing some exercise", and "don't recall any disciplinary action being taken against the individual for this event".  I need to interject that I appreciated the demeanor with which they stated this.  It would be hard to recall an employee disciplinary measure because it wouldn't be seen.  Disciplining an employee who is doing something against the beliefs of a company is a private matter.  Because others don't see the discipline doesn't mean it doesn't happen, and very few employees are going to come out of that kind of meeting and tell others.  I don't doubt there have been problems within HLA.  There isn't anyone or any organization that is perfect.  However, whether or not HLA crossed the line without making voluntary changes (firings, changes in protocol, etc), has yet to be fully established.

Here are some of the problems I've noticed with Fornits:
1.  Posts from pro-HLA people are deleted, modified without permission, or not posted.  Hopefully this won’t be one of them.  It’s happened to me before.  Others have said the same.

2.  Supposition is seen as fact.  There is a belief that someone can say anything negative or defamatory, and innocence needs to be proven.  The biggest issue of this involves the allegations of abuse.  For example, RB asked me to cite reports from CPS that denied finding any signs of abuse on campus.  This is not the job of someone who is casting doubt on guilt.  It is the responsibility of someone who is alleging very serious allegations.  If someone says I robbed a bank, it's not my job to prove my innocence, it's up to the other side to prove my guilt.  However, it's a good Fornits technique to try and get the other side to prove innocence, because the person accusing can simply sit back and allege anything they want.  It also leaves others believing the person is guilty if they don't find "the right" evidence.

RB, I not only address you on these posts; I also address others.  If you aren't arguing there were CPS findings of abuse on campus, I leave my response for others who have claimed abuse happening on campus.  If you are having a hard time or don't have the motivation to find positive reports of abuse from CPS, it's going to be hard to convince me abusive behavior was endorsed by HLA.  That is why I'm telling you "time is ticking".  I'm not here to dismiss the truth, just lies and distortion.  I should be one of the people you try to convince.  It's easy to preach to the choir.  So please investigate this or have someone else do this for you.  Yes, there were multiple reports made to CPS.  However, this is something that happens at nearly every center that offers psychological counseling in the nation.  The fact that CPS can receive a report of abuse 24 hours per day/365 days per year and HLA hasn't had one positive report of abuse in 13 years really casts doubt on the allegations of abuse.  To put this in perspective, there have been approximately 4,562 days and 109, 500 hours (based on 12.5 years) in which a report of abuse could have been made or found by to be true by CPS.  However, this hasn’t happened.  RB, you said you were abused.  You should at least know the outcome of a report I’m assuming you made to CPS.  If you didn’t place a report, why?  How many of the others claiming abuse on this site made a report to CPS?  A positive report of abuse would certainly sway me to believe it happened on campus.

I noticed people started arguing the calorie content of the meals for those on restrictions.  This is assuming the diet being reported is true.  Once again, things on Fornits have been so distorted in the past, it’s hard to know when something is true or not.  RB, you told me your real name was Robert Bruce.  I found out this was a lie.  You could have just told me you didn’t want this revealed.  This is what I mean.  When you lie or tell a half-truth, you destroy credibility.

3.  If don’t have anything to say or don’t like what is posted, slander or curse out the person.  There are several people who tried to challenge the negative perspectives in the past, but won’t return to Fornits simply because they don’t believe they are going to be heard.  This leaves Fornits to be predominantly dominated by people who are opposed to HLA.  The longer someone stays on this site, the more skewed and unobjective their perspective becomes.  RB said he didn’t see a student spitting in the face of their counselor a negative thing.  I think this gives perspective on why others with alternative opinions are treated so poorly without regret.

4.  Half-truths are pervasive.  For example, RB and company usually leaves out the full details.  The latest one was RB quoting a partial page (pg.15) on the latest ruling from the court.  Rather than reference the stated fact the court was denying the accusation of unjust enrichment, he focused on the word “unjust enrichment” and the number of times it was mentioned.  If I didn’t have that document, I’d be left to think it was mentioned several times because there was truth to the allegation.  Another one is to say kids were left on restriction for “months at a time”.  What is left out is the fact a kid can be placed on a 3, 4, 5, & 7-day restriction.  This means a kid received several restrictions in a row, not a counselor signed off on a restriction to last for months.

Here is what I believe:
1.  People should be heard without being slandered or cursed.  This can often become verbal or emotional abuse to some.
2.  If you are accusing someone of something very serious, it’s not up to the accused to prove their innocence.  It’s not up to someone who casts doubt on the issue of abuse to find a CPS report that doesn’t find abuse.
3.  Any mistreatment towards another person is wrong.
4.  HLA is not perfect.  There isn’t a person or organization that is.
5.  The stronger the truth is pursued, the more likely one is to find it.  This comes from my Christian faith.
6.  You shouldn’t hate or judge the inherent goodness or badness of a person, but you can judge their actions and/or character.  Once again, this comes from my Christian faith.
7.  I make mistakes (sometimes several) and will correct myself when I find it to be true.

As far as what I believe about HLA, I think I’ve stated it pretty clearly.  I’m open to considering the other side, but am waiting to hear convincing evidence that the other opinion is true from a credible person.  I’m really doubting the possibility of finding this on Fornits.  It’s really a shame.

Good night!   ::kiss::
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That's the only way to respond to my post?
Come on, you're proving my point.  Whenever facts are brought up and an alternative view is given, the only thing left to do is call someone names and focus on something that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

I'll give an answer anyway and hope we can get back to the topic at hand.  
I'm not sure who started this thread, but it wasn't me.  I wouldn't have any problem claiming this.  I think someone split my post off of the thread I originally posted it to.  That's probably why the title is "split from court ruling thread."  I'm guessing the person was Deborah since she's the moderator.

You must be having a bad day.  That's okay.  I still think you're mighty special. :wave:
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Has anyone taken the time to actually read the court documents?  The recent one was highly critical of the plaintiff's.  See page 15 for an example.  The truth is, all of you know class action status won't be granted.  Any further action will need to be by way of individual suits.  I hope they focus on issues of abuse because the plaintiff's will clearly lose.
Once again, when CPS or DEFACS went out to HLA since the school began, they haven't been able to find any signs of abuse.  None!  On another board I made a mistake and said how DEFACS wasn't able to "cherry pick" the people they talk to.  I meant to say HLA is not able to "cherry pick" kids for DEFACS to interview.

Let's be honest, on one hand people have said in the past that DEFACS knew all about abuse at HLA, but on the other they say HLA is somehow able to hide kids away.  DEFACS has the ability to go anywhere on campus and interview any kid they want, especially the kid making an allegation.  So are people actually saying HLA is powerful enough to hide kids from DEFACS over the 13 years of the school's existence?  The truth that everyone tries to avoid is abuse hasn't ever been found on the HLA campus.  When I was there, there was a lot of abuse toward staff from students, but there wasn't a sign of abuse from staff to students.

Some are saying writing assignments and work assignments are abuse.  Is cutting up firewood to deliver to elderly people who can't afford a heating bill abuse?  The kids on restriction actually deliver it to the homes of these people and come away with a more positive perspective.  Is cleaning the grounds of campus abuse?  Then every parent must be abusing their child when they ask them to help clean up the home.  Are therapeutic writing assignments abuse?  Kids on restriction often need to refocus.  This helps them do it.

I remember going back to attend a graduation, I heard nearly every kid talk about the changes they saw in themselves over the time they were at HLA.  Two said they knew they would be dead because they had friends die while they were at HLA.  Kids received their high school diplomas and went on to college, something many of the kids said was something they never thought they'd achieve.

I don't mind criticism.  I know HLA isn't perfect.  No facility is.  But it wasn't abusive.  Kids weren't "locked up".  They are actually sent to where ever they need to go by themselves without a staff member escorting them.  Has anyone checked on the level of violence in public schools?  Please do.  I did.  Public schools are actually the places that have the most fights and other things people accuse HLA of endorsing.

Let me also clear up something that I read a while back.  Someone said HLA was able to avoid being licensed.  Treatment centers, boarding schools, etc can't avoid being licensed.  I found out that ORS actually granted an "exemption" from being licensed since it was seen as more of a boarding school.  That's far different that the picture of HLA somehow avoiding the state.  My friend at DHR said HLA is now being licensed because it is now seen as more similar to a therapeutic program than pure boarding school.  She said HLA should be licensed within the next month.
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