Fornits

Fornits Home for Wayward Web Fora
An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

On 2006-03-31 13:31:00, Anonymous wrote:

"why the "don't feed the trolls"? you know something we don't?"

No. I dont think I know something you dont. Well, at least not pertaining to the subject at hand. Just trying to be humorously supportive in place of my absensce. :wave:

On 2006-03-26 08:24:00, Guest wrote:

"Where's researcher2?"

Dont ask about researcher2. It took me a long time to get it out of my head. I now only have 1 personality. :wave:

Gees. I just spent about half an hour typing and somehow managed to delete the whole thing just before I was done. Hopefully I can remember all that I said.

Non- I may sound a bit hypocritical here, Unfortunately, my time in Ohio will be no more as of this Mon. or Tues. I have much to do when I get home. I have the very last wisdom tooth that I was supposed to have pulled about 2 years ago screaming at me to come out. Nothing a few advils wont help, but nevertheless, it's the only time I'll be home for about another month. ALso, I am meeting with my counselor at college to discuss what direction I will take my education regarding my interests. Which is simply to help kids. And, I have to see my Grandmother who is probably not going to be around in six months. THe time I get at home is usually only a weekend but it's going to be a little more than that this time so I have to make the best of it and get done what I can. Some of my prior commitments seem a bit petty considering the impact of a demonstration. Please know, I would love to come. I will be there in spirit.

You also mentioned that it would be aired, what channel? DO you think it will only be local to Ohio or maybe CNN? Are there some local newspaper websites I can monitor?

I am only halfway through Maia's book. I find that everytime she mentions an agency or name I am on the internet researching. So, it is taking me awhile to finish it. I want to be able to discuss the issue with those uninformed intelligently. I believe she said that Straight had a branch in Springfield. I am going to try to investigate that along with trying to find anything going on in my area regarding the issues. Are you aware of anything in IL?

(i cant remember half of what i wrote that got deleted, im so pissed.)

Um, Eudora, I forgot to commend you on your letter being published by, was it, the Miami Herald? I'm quite intoxicated with an overload of information, so you'll have to excuse me if i'm wrong. At any rate, your voice is being heard! And a strong one it is.

Oh, yeah-- the website ISAC, what do you think of it? And along with the bill it talks about being passed, what do you folks think about that? I would like to have your input before I write my local rep. I know sometimes those less informed seem to miss articles or sections in bills that can corrupt the entire purpose, therefore end up voting for a corrupt bill.

I'm sure I've forgotten something. I feel like an author that just wrote his best chapter and it was deleted completely. ha ha.

Eudora, NON, help me out here. And, I'm serious about this, I am really struggling with where to take my education. I was unable to go to college when I was younger, 26 now, not like Im that old, but regardless, I travel with my significant other and I dont work everyday, more like a couple days out of the month. So, I want to take my spare time to return to school. I have finally figured out that the only thing I want to do as I have mentioned is help kids. Which is the exact thing that brought me to becoming aware of this whole issue. Actually brought me to Maia's book. Anyway, what do you think is the most needed position in the industry of "disturbed children".? )for lack of a better term?) To counsel kids takes 6 years. Social work takes 4. I could become a coach even. What do you think is the best approach or some ways I can explore?

Thanks.

Ok, people, call me computer illiterate or whatever, I'm still trying to perfect this "quote" stuff and replying to quotes and all that. It's not quite perfection, but I strive. :silly:

On 2006-03-24 07:56:00, Eudora wrote:

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On 2006-03-22 15:59:00, researcher1 wrote:


Is the government not spending it's tax dollars wisely enough to where more attention is focused on these programs to ensure the safety of our youth? Oh, but I guess then it would require another government association which hires people not really qualified for the job and could care less about what they are investigating and controlling except how much overtime they work and how many 0's are at the end of their pay check. Uhh. This just proves why I never found interest in politics or following it.

"Just because you don't take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you."--Pericles (430 BC)



Yes, the government has always been intensely interested in these programs. At the very beginning of the Seed, Robert DuPont as head of NIDA granted Art Barker over a million dollars for expansion. Nixon had tasked him to go out and find the silver bullet for the expected wave of heroin addicted Vietnam vets. That epidemic never materialized, so they started hawking Anslinger's reefer madness propaganda all over the place.



Up until `98, the only political issue I really kept up on was drug policy. In `98, Brother Jeb! took office as the Governor of Florida and, right out of the chute, promised $100 million in publicly funded juvenile drug rehab. So then I started looking into the backrounds of the most lunatic of drug warriors and found most of them directly tied to Mel and Betty's little cult. Un-fucking-believable! And, in fact, even drug policy reformers have tended to litterally not believe it. Sounds too much like a conspiracy theory, right?



Well it is a conspiracy. I didn't invent it, though, I'm only reporting what I've learned.



These people are rank fanatics. They're easily as delusional as any Taliban cleric or abortion clinic bomber. Here's a stunning example at the depth of delusion on both sides of this issue. After the WTC attack of 9/11, drug policy reformers reached near consensus on putting aside their very important domestic issues in order to show real solidarity and patriotism. They assumed that, surely, the opposition would react the same way. After all, who could concience a continued domestic war while our nation is under attack by real outside enemies?



Zealots, that's who! And so I switched my tag line to "Drug Free America Foundation = an American Taliban" for awhile.



Neeless to say, I thought they were making a big mistake. They just didn't really understand how deeply fanatic these people are. So I wrote my own damned letter to the Miami Herald:

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v01/n171 ... tml?305637 Never thought they'd publish it, but they did.



Next thing ya' know, "In a record single-event advertising buy for the federal government, the White House drug czar's office is paying $1.7 million each for 30-second spots that will air Sunday on Fox during the Super Bowl, said a network source."

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02/n169/a05.html?305642



I don't know if you remember those ads or not. But they essentially had 13yo kids making statements like "I helped kill a peasant family in Bolivia!" and "I helped buy guns for terrorists in Bosnia!"



Now, if you want to see what it takes to almost make a dent in the public unconcious, just look at my martin lee anderson. The man who started that boot camp holds a seat on the board of Drug Free America Foundation. The man who took over as sherrif is a close affiliate through Florida Department of Law Enforcement and is a dyed in the wool drug warrior, appointed to that office by Brother Jeb! Büsh in the wake of a sex scandal involving the former sheriff.



Now, I don't doubt that sometimes people in positions of power over vulnerable female inmates sometimes take advantage of the situation. But it just looks damned fishy when you consider who promoted that story into a career buster and who benefited from it. Honest to God, just because the Büsh people and their creepy cult friends are involved, I tend to not believe the charges.

May your days be joyously challenging and your words artfully true.
--Ginger Warbis

"

Like the quote regarding politics. And thanks for the compliment Eudora. You are the one that started this website/forum, correct? Well, kudo's to you my dear. And, I do remember those ad campaigns. The message I got from those campaigns were just that-if you buy drugs you are donating to terrorists, etc. How does this tie in with the subject at hand? And please forgive me for sounding "Stupid" I need to do quite alot more research. And, I'm not so sure I agree with you that people have heard of this in one way or another. Maybe they have and like you said, just couldnt put 2 & 2 together. But why should people have to connect the dots? We should have pictures of abused children from these places on billboards that read "This is what happend when my parents sent me away?" Just throw it in people's faces. Ya know?
I have been forwarding websites on to all the people in my address book without even a subject line. Maybe I can create a snowball effect. Unfortunately, no one has emailed me back asking, "What is all this you keep sending me?" Even my closest friend that follows politics etc. that I have mentioned before. I just dont get it.

You talked about looking into the backgrounds of "the most lunatic of drug warriors" and found most of the directly tied to Mel and Betty's cult. So, that means that these drug lords are funding Mel and Betty Sembler. So, what do the terrorists have to do with it? Zealots? When I said I didnt follow politics, I meant it. As i said earlier, Please forgive me for sounding stupid. You'll have to allow me a little more time to respond to you. I have to research most of what you talk about before I can respond. lol. I will continue to discuss this issue as long as I have people to discuss it with. I'm sure I will need the opinions and the "education".

Thanks.

By the way, I did notice that Maia mentions this website in her book. :nworthy:

Non- I definitely agree with you regarding the one on one therapy and the subject of outlawing all of these institutions using behavioral modification. Seems like no matter what the government does to try to "pasify" those that are in dispute with these agencies, they (agencies) seem to find just another way to get around it. Shutting these places down altogether, obviously will take so much time. Needless to say those parents that want the "quick fix" those parents that just don't have the patience, the love and compassion for their kids or are just too busy in their 6 figure income jobs or are too worried about keeping up with the jones' and more worried about how many designer labels hang in their closets, that they "shoo" their kids off to the first place that tells them what they want to hear. So easy it is to just step over a homeless person or turn a blind eye to our veterans, so easy it is to give away our hard earned money to people who dont need welfare and only take advantage of it because some women like keeping their legs open just for the purpose of making money and some guys arent smart enought to keep it in their pants, so easy it is to talk about an issue over a cup of tea and have much passion for it and still do nothing about it. So easy it is to go on with our lives and take the easy route. So easy it is for people with money to get what they want. So sad it is...people with good hearts can be bought with the color green, and made to stay quiet or whatever. So sad it is, that because so many people are just plain fucking WEAK!, our youth suffers. And so sad it is that there are actually people out there that think not even twice about molestation and abuse and locking kids up in 3'x3' boxes and making kids lie flat on their stomachs for 18 months straight in the same room. So sad it is that those of us that see right from wrong and can't be bought and truely have the best intentions for our children and society for those that deserve it can't jut be the leaders of our Nation. Being president cant be that hard! Really. Just do what's fucking right no matter how many votes you get. (SORRY FOR THE LANGUAGE)

Talk about a tangent. Anyway, an uninformed public as you put it, Non, lack of a substained widespread public outcry, lack of oversight and regulations etc. I couldnt agree more. And of course the political aspects, ambassadorships being thrown around for less that 20K or whatever the figure was. It is nauseating. To say the least. Unfortunately, as far as the local news in Cincinnati, it doesnt go so far to reach IL. Maybe I can do something about that. I did at one time work for our local newspaper. :grin:

On 2006-03-22 12:51:00, Nonconformistlaw wrote:

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On 2006-03-22 09:13:00, Anonymous wrote:


"Thanks for the info. and the response. My next question, Why aren't more people aware of this problem and the history? One would think with most of this starting in Akron, Ohio at the site of the origination of AA, the state would be "tatooed" with information available simply to the naked eye. I am personally not from Ohio, but am briefly here for work. I can't believe I have never heard of this and simply stumbled upon it. I have a close friend that is nearly twice my age who has always kept up on issues regarding politics, etc. He too, had never heard of Straight Inc or The Seed or even Mel Sembler. I am amazed. My local news (IL) has never reported anything like this that I have been aware of. It should be headlining the news everyday! Do you think KHK is really being monitored by the State and behavior treatments are not as bizarre and morbidly abusive as they were years ago? I just can't understand why this isn't nationally known. I mean in a way that EVERYONE has heard someting about it."

A partial and incomplete answer to your question would be that these programs generally have many rules and policies in place that prevent insiders from revealing information to outsiders....often through twisted application of confidentiality rules and by cutting off communication for kids to the outside world...and of course by imposing or threatening harsh consequences to those who dare reveal to outsiders what is seen, heard and endured in these programs. There are also numerous facts that point to the government's unwillingness to investigate and point to outright cover ups. There is also a lot of money many people stand to lose (from clients) if the truth were well-known.



Eudora, would you elaborate on this more? I know you can articulate what I am struggling to explain better than I can.
"

That's ok. You articulated it just fine. I understand what you are trying to say and I have gathered that conclusion. I am not at any point in doubt to what these kids are going through. It can seem to be somewhat confusing to the mixed stories that I have seen. Obviously, some of these kids after "successfully" graduating some of these organizations are literally brainwashed into believing that it actually helped and that they really did have a problem, etc. in reaction to the mental breakdown of these already feable children. So, I guess my next question, without condoning the actions of mistreatment to these children, how is society, once informed of this situation, that may not be as easily "convinced", if you will, differentiate from those that needed help, those that didnt and by viewing both sides of the spectrum really see the problem? Let's face it, this has been going on for quite some time now, 1970's? Granted, time has given us the opportunity to shut down those centers and expose those accused along with stories of those poor children (Richard Bradbury, Aaron Bacon) and I'm sure thousands more. But, it still goes on. So, what has actually been accomplished? I'm not asking that in a "read between the lines" kind of way to say that it's effortless or nothing has come of people's efforts. Why haven't these people been indicted? "these people" being those listed at Anonymity Anonymous: Florida Chapter http://fornits.com/anonanon/#discussion
Is the government not spending it's tax dollars wisely enough to where more attention is focused on these programs to ensure the safety of our youth? Oh, but I guess then it would require another government association which hires people not really qualified for the job and could care less about what they are investigating and controlling except how much overtime they work and how many 0's are at the end of their pay check. Uhh. This just proves why I never found interest in politics or following it.