Civil disobedience. Illegal surveilance of programs (drop the tapes on teh doorstep of the press, or pass them out randomly at churches). Oh? but you can go go jail for that?!?! I am willing, if that is what it takes. Anything it takes to demolish the one thing that programs function on: control of communication.
Good. Do it. Don't just talk about it.
Care to enlighten us on your alliance with Isabelle Zehender?
Certainly.
We don't talk as often as we used to, I can't remember the last time we spoke, but based on all our past conversations I consider her a dedicated advocate for the rights of youth and an opponent of the abusive programs we all here oppose. She has worked to get individual youth out of programs and has coordinated flyering outside of WWASPS events to educate parents about the abuses of their programs. I've never spoken to Sue Sheff but I did see that excellent documentary about WWASPS she had a hand in creating and I was very much impressed by it. It has done a lot of good to spread the word about the abuses at these facilities.
Do people believe such actions are good or bad?
I think they are good and demonstrate progress for the movement. Because of these good things, and other good things that have been done I do consider Izzy to be an ally.
As for accusations of her taking money to refer kids to abusive programs and defending abusive programs, I guess I need to see some evidence. These are pretty serious accusations and are something I intend to look into. Potentially this could change my relationship with Izzy.
However what I have seen mostly is a lot of hysterics from this crowd who were shunning and defaming Izzy long before any accusations of her referring kids to programs surfaced. With the kind of conduct I have seen from people on this forum and from e-mail conversations with various individuals within this movement I take a rather skeptical view of the vitriol, hate and accusations that stem from this crowd.
Perhaps you are right and Izzy isn't the person I thought she was. But the kind of insane ranting I see here isn't the kind of approach that will help me see the light. It is far more likely to lead me to dismiss you all as a pack of harpies who delight in tearing people down instead of actually making progress for this important issue and actually doing some good. I very much hope I am wrong and I hope you can help me to see that.
So that's point 1: the conduct of Izzy's opponents is so ridiculous it makes it difficult for me to take any of your words seriously and thus I am skeptical of the veracity of your claims.
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I do intend to look into the claims though and check with folks here and with Izzy directly. I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't get off on infighting, I just want to know the truth. That being said, I must admit that I have intended to investigate these accusations for some time now and I have not done so yet. I apologize for my delay on this matter but I have a very busy schedule and untangling this mess of accusations and counter-accusations looks like a big project that I don't have a lot of time budgeted for.
Furthermore, as you all may have noticed, NYRA does not do a whole lot with behavior modification centers directly though we unequivocally oppose them. I am not as educated on this issue as many of you and I have not put in as much work into this issue. There are good reasons for this and I hope you will hear me out. First, we are an extremely small organization with an extremely small budget and simply lack the time and resources to make a dent in this issue. Second, unlike other issues we work on like lowering the voting age or lowering the drinking age, there are many organizations out there currently working on this issue. I would LOVE to see a board as big and vocal (though hopefully more professional) as Fornits about lowering the voting age. So with NYRA the only advocate on these issues we have to shift our weight to issues where we can do the most good. Third, if the voting age were lowered it would have a direct and considerable positive impact on the success of the anti-behavior mod movement. So for those reasons, I haven't made the time to investigate these claims like I should have. Accept my apologies and my explanation.
Accept my apologies in advance for my inability to respond to the many vitriolic point-by-point refutations this post may elicit.
So... that's point 2: I fully intend to make an honest and unbiased investigation into the claims leveled against Izzy and reach my own conclusion. But I am extremely busy and haven't had a chance yet.
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Another possible explanation in my mind for the anti-Izzy hatred may just be a difference of tactics and political awareness. We have a different approach to this issue - and perhaps all political issues. I know many here disagree with my approach, but I will attempt to articulate it anyhow.
1. I believe dogmatic, fanatic attachment to an ideal blinds us from truth.
2. I believe Compromise is necessary
3. I think successful political movements have a long term vision and short term objectives to get them there
4. I believe in Big Tent politics and working in coalitions
Many here hold the point of view that all programs are equally bad, indeed many may believe that all mental health services are equally bad or that all institutions are equally bad. I understand how such a viewpoint comes about, but I disagree. After facing the horrible abuses at programs (of which there are many) it is easy to become so angry that any program or institution at all related to it is lumped into the same category in one’s mind. Also there is the fear that if you endorse X, would you then have to endorse Y? And if you endorse Y, would you endorse Z? And so and so on until you are endorsing Tranquility Bay. So instead of asking tough questions and making some tough decisions it is far easier to throw the whole mess into a pot and label it evil.
I don't see the world in terms of black and white where all people are either good or evil. This is the perspective this movement seems to believe in. Izzy wasn’t ideologically pure in your minds, so you decide she is evil and no different than Robert Lichfield. I haven’t condemned Izzy so I am also evil and morally equivalent to Robert Lichfield. This is simply insane. There ARE shades of gray. There are differences. Was socialist Sweden the same as communist USSR? Was fascist Spain the same as Nazi Germany? Is France a terrorist country because they did not agree with our invasion of Iraq?
You guys all remind me of President Bush when he told the world they are either with us or they are with the terrorists.
If you are so certain that you are right and so certain the enemy is not only wrong, but evil, then you close your mind to argument, you close your mind to facts, you close your mind to truth. Bush was so certain that Saddam had to go and that invading Iraq would make us safer that he distorted the truth and “sexed up intelligence†to make the case for war certain that history would one day vindicate him. So far at least he has been wrong. But he held a fanatical belief and shaped the facts around them instead of allowing the facts to shape his belief.
2. I believe Compromise is necessary
When you have such a fanatical mindset you blind yourself to progress. If kids are transferred from a horribly abusive camp to a mildly abusive camp is that good? No. Is it better? Absolutely. If a camp switches to be voluntary instead of compulsory that is progress.
Many in my organization would like to see the voting age abolished completely. The organization however works on lowering the voting age to 16. Is 16 a better age than 18? Yes it is. That is progress. Not only does it have direct, tangible results that can be seen and felt, it is one step closer to whatever the ultimate goal is. How likely are we to succeed if we dig in our heels and talk about nothing beyond abolishing the voting age? Not bloody likely imho. Lets say it took us 200 years to get the voting age abolished and it took us 20 years to get the voting age to 16. If we lower the voting age first then we have 180 years of 16 and 17 year olds voting, being listened, to, making political decisions and all the benefits that come with that. A compromise had a direct effect on their lives that they wouldn’t have seen if we were dogmatic about it.
Look at drug reform. Lots of people in that movement want to legalize all drugs for all people. But they compromise by pushing for medicinal marijuana. Then they compromise with decriminalizing marijuana. Then legalizing marijuana. Then maybe looking at other drugs at a later date. They are compromising and it is yielding positive results for them they wouldn’t see if they simply demanded all drugs be legalized right now.
So bringing it back to the topic at hand, if Izzy successfully gets a kid out of very abusive program and into a mildly abusive program it is progress. I know you don’t like to hear that, but that is the truth. She has just made a positive difference in that person’s life. It is far from what we ultimately want, but it is better than the practical alternative. It sucks, but that is just the reality. Of course this depends on whether she really is diverting people from more abusive programs into “better†less abusive programs and not the other way around as some suggest, but again, I need to look into that.
I’m not saying that this approach is the only one however. If you guys don’t believe in compromise, that’s fine. But please recognize that those of us who do believe in compromise aren’t evil, we just have different tactics for the same objectives.
3. I think successful political movements have a long term vision and short term objectives to get them there
What is key in this, and perhaps the point that many here don’t understand, is that when compromises are made we don’t just go home and consider our work done. When the drug policy reform movement wins national medicinal marijuana they aren’t going to just quit working on their other issues. They have a long term vision – drug legalization. And they have many short term objectives that bring the public closer to that vision. The average person may think of legalizing marijuana as crazy, criminal and a horrible idea. But he might be won over if you tell him you just want to legalize it for medicinal purposes. So he agrees with the compromise, the policy is enacted, he sees that it isn’t the end of the world, and now is more open to considering legalization than he was before. But you can’t get him to that point if you don’t compromise. If you just shout at him that drugs should be legal he will call you a crackpot and walk away.
Compromises don’t take the place of our long term vision; they bring us closer to it.
So don’t assume that Izzy or I would be happy and satisfied with just making programs less abusive. No, no, no. That is just a stepping stone toward getting rid of them altogether. But it is a stepping stone that will make at least a small improvement in the meantime.
4. I believe in Big Tent politics and working in coalitions
That leads me to my last point regarding my perspective. We all are working on the same issues. Lets assume for the moment that you guys are all right about Izzy that she really does support mildly abusive programs and is a shill for them. Why couldn’t we work with her in eliminating all the very abusive programs like WWASPS? We have the same objectives for the time being, and we’d reach our goals quicker if we worked together. When that day comes that our common goals have been reached, THEN we can start attacking Izzy for supporting mildly abusive programs.
Think of it like we are all on a train together. We are all headed in the same direction, but some of us may want to go further than others. My stop may be at the end of the line, your stop may be 5 stops from the end, Izzy’s may be 10 stops from the end. We all have different end points in mind, but that doesn’t mean we can’t travel together for the time we are all going the same way.
Another example for you. In WW2 Hitler was an evil SOB. Stalin was also an evil SOB. We worked with Stalin so we could take out Hitler and then we worried about fighting the USSR after Hitler was defeated. If it helps you, think of Izzy as Stalin (I’m sure you guys won’t find that hard to do). She may not be our best friend, but she is the enemy of our enemy. Hitler (i.e. WWASPS and other type programs) is the real threat. And if Izzy helps fighting them, her help should be embraced. Once our common enemy is done, then the Cold War can start up and we can go after Izzy and the programs she supports. But one thing at a time. If the US and Britain declared war on both Hitler AND Stalin then we would have been destroyed.
The more allies we can have the better. The bigger coalition we can form the better. We don’t have a fraction of the money and resources WWASPS, et al have. The only way we will defeat them is if we work together and stop this petty, counter-productive infighting.
So… yea. That is a very long explanation of my approach to politics, and officially point 3. I consider myself a pragmatist and not a radical, and believe in progress and think we all need to work together (from all our different approaches) to tackle this problem. So if you guys use your approach, I use mine, and Izzy uses hers, we may all disagree on how to do it, but we all agree that there is a problem that needs to be fixed.
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My final point to this incredibly long treatise is that despite how much you guys might all hate me now, I would wager that I am actually more radical on this issue than you are. Were I the dogmatic type I’m sure I could find a justification to label you all as evil sell-outs the way you are doing with Izzy. Thankfully I’m pragmatic, so I accept that you guys aren’t as radical as I am, but I would like to work with you anyway.
I would be pleasantly surprised if you guys WERE as radical as NYRA, and I’d be interested to see your responses on this point.
I saw someone mention emancipation, which NYRA supports and I’d very much like to see discussed more as a solution. I guess it is a question of why we are all here. I fully believe that youth are entirely equal to adults. I don’t have any real perspective or involvement in mental health or therapy like many do here, I am here purely from a civil rights perspective. Young people are forced into these institutions, abused, invalidated, brain washed, etc because they have no legal rights to resist or refuse. I believe young people should be fully empowered and put in charge of their own health decisions. In fact I believe they should be put in charge of all their decisions. School, voting, alcohol, driving, you name it. Anything short of that is supporting the continued abuse and slavery of young people.
But I don’t hit you guys over the head with that, I recognize that you may not agree with my radical perspective on this issue, but I am willing to work with you anyhow. I’m just asking that you return that favor.
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