Fornits

Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Pile of Dead Kids on August 26, 2010, 08:51:48 AM

Title: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on August 26, 2010, 08:51:48 AM
Introduction: This primer is unique in that you probably shouldn't be reading it. Close your browser, don't ever send your fucking kids, and pretend this entire business doesn't exist. You don't want to be involved in this. If your kids are psycho, call a local shrink (and go to therapy with them), and if they're breaking the law, call the cops. If, on the other hand, you're a former victim (or a teenager realizing what's about to happen to you- a very rare breed indeed) you should be able to quickly figure out what our various agendas are, where to post, and who to send private messages to if need be. That brings us to our first lesson...

1. Everyone has an agenda. To be precise, there are practically no regular, recognizable main-forum posters without agendas. There might be a few occasional posters without them, but they don't show up often and are of little consequence. There are also plenty of people who read, but don't post on, Fornits who have an agenda or two, involved in various organizations with their own agendas. I've got about five at the moment.

What did you expect? It's a fundamentally unmoderated forum about organized child abuse. You'd have to be a sick bastard to come here just for fun, but even the sick bastards here have agendas.

Some of the agendas here are altruistic, some are financial, some are insane, and some are completely insane and deeply disturbing. Figuring out which is which could be an unpleasant process, particularly if there's something on the line (large amounts of money, your self-respect, your kids...)

The program, whatever it is, has an agenda; do you think they make money without one? Remember, a car salesman's agenda is to sell cars and probably wouldn't want you walking off the lot without one. Do you think a realtor really wants you ending up in a house where he doesn't get a cut?

And, let's face it: unless you're just here out of sheer morbid curiosity, you probably have an agenda too.

2. With lesson 1 in mind, remember that arguing posters on Fornits have a dual goal: to drive each other out of the argument and cause you to believe as they do- whoever you are. Nobody is going to let their foes get the upper hand and so they will continue this practice more or less indefinitely, accusing their opponents of having agendas and being disingenuous. (Why do you think programs like the word 'manipulation' so much?) A common practice is attempting to align their words to what they think you want to believe; if you want to believe anything, you shouldn't be here and you definitely shouldn't be involved in this.

3. With lessons 1 and 2 in mind, verify absolutely everything you read or hear from anyone. If it can't be corroborated from an unrelated source, it's probably bullshit. Various people with agendas (remember, that's everyone) like to pretend to have unrelated sources backing them up. Sometimes they do. Sometimes they don't. Treat it like a government investigation. You might hear a lot of claims and see a few pictures. Where did they come from, who put them there, and why? Modern browsers have a search-engine taskbar. Make use of it.

Various posters with various agendas will be by shortly to make various claims about this post.
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Che Gookin on August 26, 2010, 09:31:36 AM
I'm only posting to say I have nothing to say, which isn't all that uncommon for me now is it?

 :twofinger:

Also, biggest agenda on this forum is Samara, she plans on smothering us all under her unrelenting waves of maternal niceness. I'm feeling gooey already..

should probably lay off the soju and go to bed as well.
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Maximilian on August 28, 2010, 03:13:20 PM
Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
If your kids are psycho, call a local shrink (and go to therapy with them),

IF the kid lets it slip to the shrink, that they might be thinking of harming themselves, they will earn a one way ticket to the locked psychiatric unit, do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars. Psychiatrists specialize in on thing, in my experience, and that is putting you on as many psych medications as they can. In my opinion, I don't think that is a very effective strategy for dealing with a troubled teen. I'm sure a lot of people think drugging your kid into a stupor is a fine solution, but it's not a long term solution, it doesn't change the reason they behaved in a negative way. It only covers up the problems, then the kid will have to deal with them when they are an adult, on their own. They will also have to deal with the messy process of coming off the very strong medications psychiatrist prescribe like it's candy, on their own.

Have you been or seen what goes on in an adolescent psychiatric unit? All of the things people complain about here happening in programs that harm children, they happen also in hospitals. IN fact the most negative experiences I had in treatment were hospitals like these, I wouldn't go so far to call it abuse, but it was harsh and restrictive and controlling, way more so than the program ever was. Not to mention the added fact, that they will pump you so full of medications you don't know up from sideways.

Usually therapy for teens, they go by themselves and talk to a therapist. I think family group therapy can work, but if a teen is troubled usually the communication broke down prior to that within a family. I also believe that most families that seek out long term programs, have tried most of these options before.



Quote
and if they're breaking the law, call the cops.

I couldn't disagree with this advice more. Juvenile hall, the justice system, courts, probation system, these are worse than any program or hospital. For a parent to willingly involve their child in this govt bureaucracy, and expect it to help them, well then they are painfully naive. If the idea you are trying to say, is punish your kid. Well what is the difference between calling the cops, or calling the escorts to come get the kid. Where would you rather be, if your parents caught you with drugs or something. Sitting in a cell with gang members in jail, or out camping with relatively nice kids out in a wilderness program? Kids should be grateful their parents do not follow this advice, and seek help in the private sector. This is possibly some of the worst advice, I believe, that a parent of a troubled teen could follow. Cops do not help anybody, and parents instantly lose control of the situation and the courts take over. It doesn't matter if the parent changes their mind, from that point on it's out of their hands, and the kid is stuck in "the system" for good. I hope parents are not naive enough to follow this advice.
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: shaggys on August 28, 2010, 04:04:01 PM
I am sorry Pile to get off topic here and we can start another thread for this subject if necessary but I did want to address something that maximillian/suck it brought up. I can't believe I am saying this but I have to agree that calling the cops on your kid has to be the ultimate last resort. Dont get me wrong, if your kid has committed serious felonies harming other people ie rape, murder etc then please call the cops immediately. However if they are breaking the law by using illegal drugs, drinking underage etc then guess what: you gotta grow a pair of balls and raise your own children! Its tough sometimes but dumping them off for some stranger to raise is bullshit. Having them incarcerated in the legal system for petty BS will likely ruin them and most treatment programs will likely convince them that they are a lifelong drug-addict even when they are probably not that at all. You created them - do your job and teach them.
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Samara on August 28, 2010, 04:29:15 PM
Che, CHe, CHE! I don't have an agenda.  I just have wishes:
1.  For survivors to receive support, validation, fellowship.... Check!!
2.  For program prospects to get flip coin information  with no ed con marketing. For maximum efficacy, this requires people here to behave in a credible fashion. Passion, knowledge, and experience = good. Extreme acts = off putting.  Many people here have done excellent work providing research, anecdotes, and insight. In-fighting and extremity potentially capsize results.

What's done is done. I am more concerned with the current generation.

But I'm not really that nice. If you bend over, I'll kick your ass if you want.  (But then I'd run. Fast.) I'm still pissed about the rick shaw, you see.

For frivolity. I'd add a #3. For the Elan site, I can't keep track of who is who and on what "side" because of the interpersonal dramatics. WTH happened over there? It looks like interpersonal hell. It seems like every one is in there own Private Idaho and there is no interconnectedness. Is there any way it could reach attain #1?

And #4 If I could only figure out how to handle Whooter. On one hand, I should ignore him and focus on issues.  But his bold face personal lies and derailment tactics make it difficult to let it go.  If he were just pro program or neutral, I could take it. But the Tar Baby tactics and convoluted derailment agenda as well as his personal lies make him difficult to ignore. Especially for people who visit briefly.  They haven't spent the time to see his patterns as we have.

So in that sense, I feel like democracy should be usurped in favor of a ban.  That is just my opinion.
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: anythinganyone on August 28, 2010, 04:48:58 PM
Quote from: "Maximilian"
Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
If your kids are psycho, call a local shrink (and go to therapy with them),

IF the kid lets it slip to the shrink, that they might be thinking of harming themselves, they will earn a one way ticket to the locked psychiatric unit, do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars.

Not true.  If it seems very likely that someone will kill themselves, then the psychiatrist will be required to have them sent to a mental health facility.  A mental health professional is not required to send someone over just because they are merely considering or thinking about suicide or self-harm.

Quote
Psychiatrists specialize in on thing, in my experience, and that is putting you on as many psych medications as they can. In my opinion, I don't think that is a very effective strategy for dealing with a troubled teen. I'm sure a lot of people think drugging your kid into a stupor is a fine solution, but it's not a long term solution, it doesn't change the reason they behaved in a negative way. It only covers up the problems, then the kid will have to deal with them when they are an adult, on their own. They will also have to deal with the messy process of coming off the very strong medications psychiatrist prescribe like it's candy, on their own.

There are crappy psychiatrists and wonderful ones, as with any profession sadly.  Medication is supposed to be an aid, not a solution, and hopefully, all sides would recognise that.  Besides that, no one is forcing pills down anyone's throat.  People are welcome to get second opinions etc.

I take medication, and a very low dose at that, and it has helped me tremendously.

Quote
Have you been or seen what goes on in an adolescent psychiatric unit? All of the things people complain about here happening in programs that harm children, they happen also in hospitals. IN fact the most negative experiences I had in treatment were hospitals like these, I wouldn't go so far to call it abuse, but it was harsh and restrictive and controlling, way more so than the program ever was. Not to mention the added fact, that they will pump you so full of medications you don't know up from sideways.

Specific examples please.  

Quote
Usually therapy for teens, they go by themselves and talk to a therapist. I think family group therapy can work, but if a teen is troubled usually the communication broke down prior to that within a family.

In other words, family group therapy only works when there isn't a problem.  Good philosophy.
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Che Gookin on August 28, 2010, 05:15:21 PM
Quote from: "Samara"
Che, CHe, CHE! I don't have an agenda.  I just have wishes:
1.  For survivors to receive support, validation, fellowship.... Check!!

More of that over on facebook.

Quote
2.  For program prospects to get flip coin information  with no ed con marketing. For maximum efficacy, this requires people here to behave in a credible fashion. Passion, knowledge, and experience = good. Extreme acts = off putting.  Many people here have done excellent work providing research, anecdotes, and insight. In-fighting and extremity potentially capsize results.

What's done is done. I am more concerned with the current generation.

Yeah, good point.

Quote
But I'm not really that nice. If you bend over, I'll kick your ass if you want.  (But then I'd run. Fast.) I'm still pissed about the rick shaw, you see.

I might hold you to that promise. :)

Quote
For frivolity. I'd add a #3. For the Elan site, I can't keep track of who is who and on what "side" because of the interpersonal dramatics. WTH happened over there? It looks like interpersonal hell. It seems like every one is in there own Private Idaho and there is no interconnectedness. Is there any way it could reach attain #1?

I suggest restricting their forum access to just the Elan forum and letting them have it out in a no holds bar forum brawl.

Quote
And #4 If I could only figure out how to handle Whooter. On one hand, I should ignore him and focus on issues.  But his bold face personal lies and derailment tactics make it difficult to let it go.  If he were just pro program or neutral, I could take it. But the Tar Baby tactics and convoluted derailment agenda as well as his personal lies make him difficult to ignore. Especially for people who visit briefly.  They haven't spent the time to see his patterns as we have.

Ignore him.. I rarely bother with him.. no point really.. much of what really goes on happens in private message.. People put too much faith in what is splattered all over the forums.

Quote
So in that sense, I feel like democracy should be usurped in favor of a ban.  That is just my opinion.

There is no democracy when it comes to a ban, just an admin decision. Which wouldn't amount to much anyway as a banned person can download torpark or hotspot shield and go right back to posting under a new identity.
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Whooter on August 28, 2010, 05:57:08 PM
One of the difficulties I see here is that many try to place the kid in a box or label them i.e.  if they are suicidal then they need to go to a psych ward, if they are not then they need to stay home.  Life just isnít this easy.  Those of us who have raised kids know that each child is different and requires a different approach. Many kids respond well to local services and move on.  A small population of kids do not respond well and if they donít then we cannot advocate that parents just give up and hope for the best.

There is evidence that some kids are abused in facilities.  There is also evidence that kids are abused outside of facilities.  There are studies which show residential treatment can be very effective.  So this option should never be taken off the table.  But at the same time it should be held as a last resort.
Taking the extreme approach that all residential treatment centers are abusive just shows a personal agenda and smacks of misinformation and bias.  Even the most uninformed parent will see through this agenda in a heartbeat.  Parents know life isnít black and white.  Parents also know enough to ask to and speak with other parents who have been through the process before committing to such a large step.

@Samara, I am disappointed that you stated that you would like me banned.  I think this is because you are uncomfortable that I know one of your dark secrets.  I witnessed you stand by idly while another personís personal information was posted on the internet.  You never spoke a word because the person doing it was anti-program; you would like to see me gone because I know this side of you, your agenda and the double standard you represent.
In reality there are many people on fornits who act the same way I do, but since they are anti-program it is tolerated.  Do you really believe that you yourself donít embrace a double standard ?



...
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Botched Programming on August 28, 2010, 06:07:01 PM
Quote from: "Samara"

So in that sense, I feel like democracy should be usurped in favor of a ban.  That is just my opinion.

I am behind you 100 percent Samara !!!!
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Botched Programming on August 28, 2010, 06:20:52 PM
Quote from: "Whooter"
 Do you really believe that you yourself donít embrace a double standard ?

...

Have you guys noticed how Who and Danny both are now crying this "Double Standard" line... Seems to be more than coincidence in the writing style as well as the way the words are strung together... May be Danny is a different person if he is he is Who's sock puppet.
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Whooter on August 28, 2010, 06:27:17 PM
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
Quote from: "Samara"

So in that sense, I feel like democracy should be usurped in favor of a ban.  That is just my opinion.

I am behind you 100 percent Samara !!!!

I think this is what separates those with an open mind with those who are closed minded.  Even though I disagree with Samara, yourself and many others here I feel that everyone has a right to their opinion and the right to express it openly.  I wouldnt even want Dysfunction Junction and RobertBruce  silenced because in their own way they feel as though they are doing the right thing with their tactics.  I dont think DJ (etal) would spend 5 years of his life trolling me if he didnt think he was right.

Once you silence the first person the next ones on the list are easy and pretty soon you are banning people left and right for a mere general disagreement just because you can and begin enjoying wielding your power.



...
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Botched Programming on August 28, 2010, 06:37:50 PM
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
Quote from: "Samara"

So in that sense, I feel like democracy should be usurped in favor of a ban.  That is just my opinion.

I am behind you 100 percent Samara !!!!

I think this is what separates those with an open mind with those who are closed minded.  Even though I disagree with Samara, yourself and many others here I feel that everyone has a right to their opinion and the right to express it openly.  I wouldnt even want Dysfunction Junction and RobertBruce  silenced because in their own way they feel as though they are doing the right thing with their tactics.  I dont think DJ (etal) would spend 5 years of his life trolling me if he didnt think he was right.

Once you silence the first person the next ones on the list are easy and pretty soon you are banning people left and right for a mere general disagreement just because you can and begin enjoying wielding your power.

...


Fancy way of saying I don't want to be banned. And if I were banned I would not know what to do with myself...


... (LOL)
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Whooter on August 28, 2010, 06:38:54 PM
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
Quote from: "Whooter"
 Do you really believe that you yourself donít embrace a double standard ?

...

Have you guys noticed how Who and Danny both are now crying this "Double Standard" line...

Maybe there is something to it?  Have you ever thought of that?



...
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Botched Programming on August 28, 2010, 06:42:16 PM
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
Quote from: "Whooter"
 Do you really believe that you yourself donít embrace a double standard ?

...

Have you guys noticed how Who and Danny both are now crying this "Double Standard" line...

Maybe there is something to it?  Have you ever thought of that?



...

Yeah you are a good ventriloquist... with your sock puppet putting words in it's mouth.
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Whooter on August 28, 2010, 06:44:05 PM
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
Quote from: "Samara"

So in that sense, I feel like democracy should be usurped in favor of a ban.  That is just my opinion.

I am behind you 100 percent Samara !!!!

I think this is what separates those with an open mind with those who are closed minded.  Even though I disagree with Samara, yourself and many others here I feel that everyone has a right to their opinion and the right to express it openly.  I wouldnt even want Dysfunction Junction and RobertBruce  silenced because in their own way they feel as though they are doing the right thing with their tactics.  I dont think DJ (etal) would spend 5 years of his life trolling me if he didnt think he was right.

Once you silence the first person the next ones on the list are easy and pretty soon you are banning people left and right for a mere general disagreement just because you can and begin enjoying wielding your power.

...


Fancy way of saying I don't want to be banned.


... (LOL)

Weak, you tilted your hand, botched, you have no backbone and hide behind the group on the band wagon.  Everyone who has been here long enough knows that banning doesn't bother me.  It speaks more about you than it does me.  Why are you so threatened by people who disagree with you?  Your argument must be weak if you need to resort to considering banning someone vs having a discussion.



...
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on August 28, 2010, 06:55:13 PM
I just want to interrupt the Whospam by pointing out that the same guy telling us that we shouldn't go to shrinks or call cops is the one calling the locals fringe cult extremists. :rofl:
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Botched Programming on August 28, 2010, 06:55:57 PM
Quote from: "Whooter"

Everyone who has been here long enough knows that banning doesn't bother me.

Wrong... You whined and complained to admin daily until they allowed you to come back the last 2 times you were banned...
Plus I've been here longer than you.


Quote from: "Whooter"
Why are you so threatened by people who disagree with you?  Your argument must be weak if you need to resort to considering banning someone vs having a discussion.

Not threatened... just disgusted with having to put up with you over excessive posting, battling with every person who has some negative points about programs... And the disharmony that you carry with you. Is this the way you are in your home life... I know you will not answer that question honestly or at all... Waste of my time typing it to you.
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on August 28, 2010, 06:58:02 PM
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
Is this the way you are in your home life...

He doesn't have one of those. Too busy posting on Fornits. :D
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Maximilian on August 28, 2010, 07:09:23 PM
.
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Whooter on August 28, 2010, 07:16:42 PM
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
Quote from: "Whooter"

Everyone who has been here long enough knows that banning doesn't bother me.

Wrong... You whined and complained to admin daily until they allowed you to come back the last 2 times you were banned...
Plus I've been here longer than you.

Good, then you know that the banning was in error.  It was due to an admin who lied about my postings.  Once my posts were reviewed it was determined that I was not flooding.

Why not be honest?  If you were here than you would know this.

Again, Botched, you see what you want to see.  You see me as the bad disruptive troll who needs to be banned and you see Dysfunction Junction (etal) as an innocent bystander that was done wrong lol.

You are proving my point with every post.



...
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Botched Programming on August 28, 2010, 07:23:31 PM
Quote from: "Maximilian"

OK, this is ironic, you have to admit. Because you are defending a form of treatment (psychiatry) which in my experience, was ineffective and, actually, I found most of the experience quite negative. The psychiatrists I saw seemed trigger happy when it came to hospitalization. I was put in several times because I said the wrong thing, and was just a bit too honest about my intentions to continue to use drugs. Since I had overdosed and almost died before, they considered my behavior a form of suicide. My treatment involved talking to a psychiatrist for five minutes, and him prescribing me more and more meds, until I entered a stupor in which I was no longer wanting to go out and kill myself through bad behavior, because I was like a walking vegetable.


Your parents took you to a quack... Did your parents go to counseling sessions with you ?? If not there in lies the problem... What you were going through was not a personal disorder it affected the whole family and the whole family needed to be treated. As far as meds go, a good doctor checks levels.
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on August 28, 2010, 07:29:26 PM
Nah, he's just making shit up. Again.

And every time Whooter says that "you know" or "everyone has agreed", on anything, it's a fair bet that the opposite is true. For example, we now know that Whooter deserves to be immediately banned.
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Pile of shit on August 28, 2010, 07:30:21 PM
http://www.elanalum.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4035 (http://www.elanalum.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4035)

dannyb50 > Danny


http://www.elanalum.com/Forums/viewtopi ... 27&start=0 (http://www.elanalum.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=27&start=0)

Re: Those who got out and did nothing should be ashamed

Postby dannyb50 on Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:30 pm

Not to jump on the band wagon of Doug, please explain when the hell do we talk about why we ended up in Elan in the first place. Listen I didn't end up their b/cuz I was having a tremendously fascinating life w/ all kinds of successes. Hey most of us came out of juvenile detention centers, other treatment centers, somekind of diagnostic center, mental health centers,or other types of special schools and let me tell ya' we weren't on the "honor rolls" in these instutions either. I am not condoning, excusing or anything else that can be called abusive that happened there but isn't it a little calling the kettle black. I was freaking ABUSIVE man always that's what scared little guys do at 13,14,15,16,ect....I just didn't like when Vicent Smith and Mike ? jacked my ass up b/cus I wouldn't stop acting inappropriate. First time in my life at that time that I coundn't lie my way out, run my way out, fight my way out or talk my way out. It was over for me. Dude I am not a "VICTIM" I stopped that when i realized I was a mature responsible adult. So yes Elan was a dark place and Elan also was a beacon of light. This world holds both what path are you on. Love and Peace brother. Daniel L. Bennison Elan 3 & 5 (75' till 77')
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Botched Programming on August 28, 2010, 07:37:10 PM
Quote from: "Whooter"

Good, then you know that the banning was in error.  It was due to an admin who lied about my postings.  Once my posts were reviewed it was determined that I was not flooding.

Why not be honest?  If you were here than you would know this.

Again, Botched, you see what you want to see.  You see me as the bad disruptive troll who needs to be banned and you see Dysfunction Junction (etal) as an innocent bystander that was done wrong lol.

You are proving my point with every post.

...

Nope... At that point all of your anonymous post were not linked, so admin I hate to say made an error in judgement allowing you back on this site...


I was around when the ban happened and was appaled when you were able to return

As far as DJ goes he is the thorn in you ass as you are the thorn in mine... Never said DJ was innocent, he just never bothered me.


And by the way what in the hell is your point anyway ???  ( POINTLESS)
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: anythinganyone on August 28, 2010, 07:39:22 PM
Quote from: "Maximilian"
Quote from: "anythinganyone"
Quote from: "Maximilian"
Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
If your kids are psycho, call a local shrink (and go to therapy with them),

IF the kid lets it slip to the shrink, that they might be thinking of harming themselves, they will earn a one way ticket to the locked psychiatric unit, do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars.

Not true.  If it seems very likely that someone will kill themselves, then the psychiatrist will be required to have them sent to a mental health facility.  A mental health professional is not required to send someone over just because they are merely considering or thinking about suicide or self-harm.

Quote
Psychiatrists specialize in on thing, in my experience, and that is putting you on as many psych medications as they can. In my opinion, I don't think that is a very effective strategy for dealing with a troubled teen. I'm sure a lot of people think drugging your kid into a stupor is a fine solution, but it's not a long term solution, it doesn't change the reason they behaved in a negative way. It only covers up the problems, then the kid will have to deal with them when they are an adult, on their own. They will also have to deal with the messy process of coming off the very strong medications psychiatrist prescribe like it's candy, on their own.

There are crappy psychiatrists and wonderful ones, as with any profession sadly.  Medication is supposed to be an aid, not a solution, and hopefully, all sides would recognise that.  Besides that, no one is forcing pills down anyone's throat.  People are welcome to get second opinions etc.

I take medication, and a very low dose at that, and it has helped me tremendously.

Quote
Have you been or seen what goes on in an adolescent psychiatric unit? All of the things people complain about here happening in programs that harm children, they happen also in hospitals. IN fact the most negative experiences I had in treatment were hospitals like these, I wouldn't go so far to call it abuse, but it was harsh and restrictive and controlling, way more so than the program ever was. Not to mention the added fact, that they will pump you so full of medications you don't know up from sideways.

Specific examples please.  

Quote
Usually therapy for teens, they go by themselves and talk to a therapist. I think family group therapy can work, but if a teen is troubled usually the communication broke down prior to that within a family.

In other words, family group therapy only works when there isn't a problem.  Good philosophy.

OK, this is ironic, you have to admit. Because you are defending a form of treatment (psychiatry) which in my experience, was ineffective and, actually, I found most of the experience quite negative. The psychiatrists I saw seemed trigger happy when it came to hospitalization. I was put in several times because I said the wrong thing, and was just a bit too honest about my intentions to continue to use drugs. Since I had overdosed and almost died before, they considered my behavior a form of suicide. My treatment involved talking to a psychiatrist for five minutes, and him prescribing me more and more meds, until I entered a stupor in which I was no longer wanting to go out and kill myself through bad behavior, because I was like a walking vegetable.

My parents insurance eventually refused to allow me any more treatment after several hospital stays, and so the psychiatrist suggested I be transfered to long term. The only place my parents could afford out of pocket was wwasp. I think most families try therapy, family therapy, and psychiatrists before seeking out such a long term, expensive option, but maybe I'm wrong. My family did, over a course of a couple years and I only got worse. I really was intent on destroying myself, and had to be forcibly stopped against my will. I know that's not the case for everybody, as I've read here, but it's accurate in my case. At the program, they helped me get off the meds, because I didn't want to be a zombie. When I left the program I was no longer on meds, and it felt good to actually feel things once again.

I could give you lots of examples of the things that happened in psychiatric hospitals I considered negative, but to be honest I don't really want to get into that right now.  If I could go back and choose for myself, I would rather been sent to a
wilderness program or private program than a hospital, but that's me. Thanks for your post.

Now that I think about it, it is kind of humorously ironic.

I would go to a hospital, but that's just me as well.

I can't help but question your authenticity; I get the impression this is just a story that keeps getting new parts pumped in whenever they are of use.
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Maximilian on August 28, 2010, 07:39:39 PM
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Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Botched Programming on August 28, 2010, 07:50:39 PM
Forced treatment does not work Max.... This is where a parent needs to make a stand and make a child go to counseling as a family and continue doing it even if the child don't want to open up... I take it you family only hit 1 or 2 counseling sessions and gave up... That don't show real love...They needede to be in it for the long haul and not expect a program to fix their little kiddie.

For any form of treatment on a mental condition can work an open mind must be present... Like grafting a dead branch on a live tree... Just will not work
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Whooter on August 28, 2010, 07:51:11 PM
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
Quote from: "Whooter"

Good, then you know that the banning was in error.  It was due to an admin who lied about my postings.  Once my posts were reviewed it was determined that I was not flooding.

Why not be honest?  If you were here than you would know this.

Again, Botched, you see what you want to see.  You see me as the bad disruptive troll who needs to be banned and you see Dysfunction Junction (etal) as an innocent bystander that was done wrong lol.

You are proving my point with every post.

...

Nope... At that point all of your anonymous post were not linked, so admin I hate to say made an error in judgement allowing you back on this site...


I was around when the ban happened and was appaled when you were able to return

As far as DJ goes he is the thorn in you ass as you are the thorn in mine... Never said DJ was innocent, he just never bothered me.


And by the way what in the hell is your point anyway ???  ( POINTLESS)

If you were appalled that I was allowed back, what (in your opinion), would justify banning me?  What have I done that others have not?



...
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Maximilian on August 28, 2010, 07:51:50 PM
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Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Maximilian on August 28, 2010, 08:00:21 PM
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Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: DannyB II on August 28, 2010, 08:09:33 PM
Quote from: "Samara"
Che, CHe, CHE! I don't have an agenda.  I just have wishes:
1.  For survivors to receive support, validation, fellowship.... Check!!
2.  For program prospects to get flip coin information  with no ed con marketing. For maximum efficacy, this requires people here to behave in a credible fashion. Passion, knowledge, and experience = good. Extreme acts = off putting.  Many people here have done excellent work providing research, anecdotes, and insight. In-fighting and extremity potentially capsize results.

What's done is done. I am more concerned with the current generation.

But I'm not really that nice. If you bend over, I'll kick your ass if you want.  (But then I'd run. Fast.) I'm still pissed about the rick shaw, you see.

For frivolity. I'd add a #3. For the Elan site, I can't keep track of who is who and on what "side" because of the interpersonal dramatics. WTH happened over there? It looks like interpersonal hell. It seems like every one is in there own Private Idaho and there is no interconnectedness. Is there any way it could reach attain #1?

And #4 If I could only figure out how to handle Whooter. On one hand, I should ignore him and focus on issues.  But his bold face personal lies and derailment tactics make it difficult to let it go.  If he were just pro program or neutral, I could take it. But the Tar Baby tactics and convoluted derailment agenda as well as his personal lies make him difficult to ignore. Especially for people who visit briefly.  They haven't spent the time to see his patterns as we have.

So in that sense, I feel like democracy should be usurped in favor of a ban.  That is just my opinion.

Because you are lazy and bigoted. Thank god you hold no position where diverse lives are at stake. I also thank heavens you are of a minority.
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Whooter on August 28, 2010, 08:20:40 PM
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
This is where a parent needs to make a stand and make a child go to counseling as a family and continue doing it even if the child don't want to open up...

Many here on fornits would disagree with you and state that forcing a child into therapy will never work.  You should reconsider that statement, Botched, before you get some PM's from the majority to change your thought pattern.
If local forced therapy was considered acceptable then forced therapy away from home would have to be considered as an option also.  This would never be considered acceptable here on fornits.



...
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Botched Programming on August 28, 2010, 08:30:04 PM
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
This is where a parent needs to make a stand and make a child go to counseling as a family and continue doing it even if the child don't want to open up...

Many here on fornits would disagree with you and state that forcing a child into therapy will never work.  You should reconsider that statement, Botched, before you get some PM's from the majority to change your thought pattern.
If local forced therapy was considered acceptable then forced therapy away from home would have to be considered as an option also.  This would never be considered acceptable here on fornits.



...

You are a real one trick daddy on the away from home counseling aren't you... The parent should have to endure the same treatment as the child to keep things in perspective rather than expect some lame kiddie mill to fix their kid...

By the way my PM's will not get flooded like yours.. people here respect and like me as I have walked a mile or two in their shoes...
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Samara on August 28, 2010, 08:51:35 PM
Danny, you are a moron. One minute conciliatory, the next making prejudicial statements. I work full time and take care of two children single handedly, while attending graduate school. I have my own home. I don't really think you can be lazy and provide for myself and my two children if I were lazy.  

I've tried to show a lot of restraint toward you, but wonder how you continue to attack people based on your own personality deficits. You make broad, assumptive statements, which indicates intellectual  laziness if nothing else, and you appear to be totally unaware of both your misogyny and your tendency toward the dramatic.You have a truly remarkable lack of self awareness, which is why no one values or respects your opinion.
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Whooter on August 28, 2010, 09:03:08 PM
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
This is where a parent needs to make a stand and make a child go to counseling as a family and continue doing it even if the child don't want to open up...

Many here on fornits would disagree with you and state that forcing a child into therapy will never work.  You should reconsider that statement, Botched, before you get some PM's from the majority to change your thought pattern.
If local forced therapy was considered acceptable then forced therapy away from home would have to be considered as an option also.  This would never be considered acceptable here on fornits.



...

You are a real one trick daddy on the away from home counseling aren't you... The parent should have to endure the same treatment as the child to keep things in perspective rather than expect some lame kiddie mill to fix their kid...

By the way my PM's will not get flooded like yours.. people here respect and like me as I have walked a mile or two in their shoes...

Sure if the parents and child need therapy then it should continue.  But what if it turns out that just the parents need therapy?  Would it be fair to subject the kid to therapy too?  What if it turns out that just the kid needs therapy?  Should the parent seek therapy just to keep it all in perspective?

Botched, You view it always as one sided.  Sometimes the kid needs most of the therapy and other times the parents need the help.  You need to open up your perspective a little and realize that not every situation is the same. Most of the time local services seal the deal and help the family in crises.  But on the rare occasion that it doesnít then other options should be placed on the table.  We should not just give up and hope that the kids turns out okay.



...
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Botched Programming on August 28, 2010, 09:32:41 PM
Quote from: "Whooter"

Sure if the parents and child need therapy then it should continue.  But what if it turns out that just the parents need therapy?  Would it be fair to subject the kid to therapy too?  What if it turns out that just the kid needs therapy?  Should the parent seek therapy just to keep it all in perspective?

Yes on all accounts above... If the parent needs therapy then the kid needs to know how to deal with that issue so counseling would be in order and vice versa if the kid needs counseling..

( No offense, but now I see why your daughter went astray with your logic being one sided )

Quote from: "whooter"
Botched, You view it always as one sided.  Sometimes the kid needs most of the therapy and other times the parents need the help.  
...

With you being so one sided you are overlooking the fact that the issue is a family issue and not that of just one side so all involed would need proper counseling and that would only come by both parties doing it.. What is good for the child is good for the parent as well at the same time and vice versa. It helps both sides be able to see red flags when they crop up..Plus it helps build trust on both sides if both are participating.

Thank God I always played an active role in both of my daughters lives, especially when it came to doctors, schools, and such..Having a child and being a parent are 2 totally different things...
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: DannyB II on August 28, 2010, 09:35:06 PM
Quote from: "Samara"
Danny, you are a moron. One minute conciliatory, the next making prejudicial statements. I work full time and take care of two children single handedly, while attending graduate school. I have my own home. I don't really think you can be lazy and provide for myself and my two children if I were lazy.  

I've tried to show a lot of restraint toward you, but wonder how you continue to attack people based on your own personality deficits. You make broad, assumptive statements, which indicates intellectual  laziness if nothing else, and you appear to be totally unaware of both your misogyny and your tendency toward the dramatic.You have a truly remarkable lack of self awareness, which is why no one values or respects your opinion.

 
Samara, I don't really care what you think of me or anyone else. When the hell are you folks going to get this through your heads.
 
Congrats, Samara is a single mother, who works and goes to school. I raised my 2 children by myself, worked full time and went to school. My 1st love/wife died while my kids were still young.

You have showed restraint in regards to me, well by golly, aren't you the condescending one.

My statements are neither broad, assumptive nor lazy, they go right to the heart of what I see as the problem here, unresolved destructive anger.

Oh, as far as misogyny, kiss my ass. This is exactly why I call you a lazy bigot. I have nothing against women and you know this, just because you have had your issues with men don't drag me into this abyss.

Last thing here since we are finally getting honest here bigot, my personality does have more integrity then you think.
My lack of self-awareness... :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao: the pot calling the kettle black. Please, all of you scream and moan the same tantrum.

"Danny, you are a moron. One minute conciliatory, the next making prejudicial statements".
I commented on a post you wrote. Sorry if you do not like my rebuttals.
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Samara on August 28, 2010, 09:47:19 PM
wow, didn't catch Whooter's continued assertion I stood by while people's private info was bandied. I protested that publicly and privately. I am actually amazed Whooter's stamina for lying is so enduring.
Title: Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
Post by: Joel on August 28, 2010, 09:50:38 PM
Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Samara on August 28, 2010, 09:51:43 PM
Danny, anyone who has read your posts can plainly see your misogyny. All I had to do is read the absolute disgusting stuff you wrote about Anne. It was deeply unsettling to many of us. You really don't have a high ground to stand on.  All you do is project anyway. There is no way a man with any healthy, balanced feelings for women would write the way you wrote about Ms. Bonney.  I was actually afraid of you.
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Whooter on August 28, 2010, 09:56:18 PM
Quote from: "Samara"
wow, didn't catch Whooter's continued assertion I stood by while people's private info was bandied. I protested that publicly and privately. I am actually amazed Whooter's stamina for lying is so enduring.

Why did you just say that?  Why  not provide a link to where you protested publicly to where Dysfunction Junction posted a persons name address and phone number openly to put that other person at risk.  You posted on the thread before and after that post.  I brought it to your attention several times and you refused to acknowledge it happened, yet you want others banned for being pro-program or spinning the truth, I think is what you called it.

If you protested publicly can you show us the link?  I will apologize.



...
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Botched Programming on August 28, 2010, 10:01:27 PM
Quote from: "Samara"
wow, didn't catch Whooter's continued assertion I stood by while people's private info was bandied. I protested that publicly and privately. I am actually amazed Whooter's stamina for lying is so enduring.

Now you are seeing what everyone here at Fornits have had to deal with for years now... Admin made a grave error lifting the ban off of him the second time... If we were playing baseball I would put in a fresh pitcher so we could get the third strike on him and call him out...

Much peace and healing sister Samara
 :peace:
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Whooter on August 28, 2010, 10:10:04 PM
Quote from: "Botched Programming"

With you being so one sided you are overlooking the fact that the issue is a family issue and not that of just one side so all involed would need proper counseling and that would only come by both parties doing it.. What is good for the child is good for the parent as well at the same time and vice versa. It helps both sides be able to see red flags when they crop up..Plus it helps build trust on both sides if both are participating.

Thank God I always played an active role in both of my daughters lives, especially when it came to doctors, schools, and such..Having a child and being a parent are 2 totally different things...

But if the child is the one that needs the counseling then the parents dont necessarily need to be in the room with them.  You obviously have never had to deal with this.  Individual counseling is highly effective vs family therapy.  Many times it is important for the parents and child to receive separate counseling.
Not every situation is the same.  Some times the child needs the counseling and other time the parents need it.

I agree that it is important to play and active role in your child's life.  I couldn't imagine if I had just sat back and hoped for the best instead of staying with it and getting help for my daughter.  There are many posters here who feel that they should give up and just hope for the best and not seek outside help for their child and I disagree with this.  Any concerned parent would stay involved until the child was well and able to move out on their own.



...
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Whooter on August 28, 2010, 10:14:57 PM
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
Quote from: "Samara"
wow, didn't catch Whooter's continued assertion I stood by while people's private info was bandied. I protested that publicly and privately. I am actually amazed Whooter's stamina for lying is so enduring.

Now you are seeing what everyone here at Fornits have had to deal with for years now... Admin made a grave error lifting the ban off of him the second time... If we were playing baseball I would put in a fresh pitcher so we could get the third strike on him and call him out...

Much peace and healing sister Samara
 :peace:

So my past post was so bad I should have been banned for it?  lol So tell us that you are not closed minded.  You guys are so isolated in your thoughts there is no reaching you, you cant even entertain a conversation where you are challenged.  Amazing... lets ban that guy!!!  lol.


...
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Botched Programming on August 28, 2010, 10:30:09 PM
Quote from: "Whooter"
 I couldn't imagine if I had just sat back and hoped for the best instead of staying with it and getting help for my daughter.  
...

But tell me.... Is your daughter eternally grateful for you sticking her in a warehouse for god knows however long... Did it bring you closer or drive a wedge between you, or has she even really forgiven you at this point... Did you get counseling to make you a better father as you really needed to do? And how is the relationship with said daughter today??? Do you talk to and be a part of her life on a regular basis..

As for me I learned from my familys mistakes with me when it came to me raising my kids, are they perfect... no but because I participated in their lives and did not try to get them help the first time they tried drinking and or smoke pot... they realized my disappointment.. Now that they are of age they can do what they want, both of them have their heads on straight for their ages and act more mature than their age group... All because I did not force them to do anything I was not willing to do myself.


Much peace and healing'
 :peace:
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Che Gookin on August 28, 2010, 10:43:37 PM
Samara, get in touch with me on yahoo if you still have my screen name on your messenger. I got a rickshaw for you that you might want to hear about.
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Whooter on August 28, 2010, 11:01:22 PM
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
Quote from: "Whooter"
 I couldn't imagine if I had just sat back and hoped for the best instead of staying with it and getting help for my daughter.  
...

But tell me.... Is your daughter eternally grateful for you sticking her in a warehouse for god knows however long... Did it bring you closer or drive a wedge between you, or has she even really forgiven you at this point... Did you get counseling to make you a better father as you really needed to do? And how is the relationship with said daughter today??? Do you talk to and be a part of her life on a regular basis..

As for me I learned from my familys mistakes with me when it came to me raising my kids, are they perfect... no but because I participated in their lives and did not try to get them help the first time they tried drinking and or smoke pot... they realized my disappointment.. Now that they are of age they can do what they want, both of them have their heads on straight for their ages and act more mature than their age group... All because I did not force them to do anything I was not willing to do myself.


Much peace and healing'
 :peace:

Eternally grateful is a big call.  Not sure she ever said that!  She is happy for what I did and actually wishes a few of her friends had the opportunity she had.  What you did was what most families did and do, Botched.  I did the same as you.  There are kids who grew up in the projects with no parents and did great and there are kids who had a parent who stayed home and was totally engaged in their lives 24/7 and they committed suicide, go figure.  We both know this, though.  There is no magic formula or they would write a book.  I understand there are parents who send their kids away for smoking pot but this is not the norm.  There are programs who have staff that abused kids but they are all not that way.  Your experience was yours, Botched, but many other kids had other experiences and you need to realize this.

I am fortunate and lucky that I had the insight to step in when I did.



...
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Botched Programming on August 28, 2010, 11:03:21 PM
Well we now see that Who avoids the tough questions that I have thrown out for him... He only replies on the post that he thinks he can gain an upper hand, but everyone has already been exposing him for the way he really is..

Much Peace and healing
 :peace:
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Whooter on August 28, 2010, 11:05:25 PM
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
Well we now see that Who avoids the tough questions that I have thrown out for him... He only replies on the post that he thinks he can gain an upper hand, but everyone has already been exposing him for the way he really is..

Much Peace and healing
 :peace:

Well speak out, which question did I avoid?



...
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Botched Programming on August 28, 2010, 11:09:49 PM
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
Well we now see that Who avoids the tough questions that I have thrown out for him... He only replies on the post that he thinks he can gain an upper hand, but everyone has already been exposing him for the way he really is..

Much Peace and healing
 :peace:

Well speak out, which question did I avoid?



...

See the post above the one you copied... You know which post you are not that blind..
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Whooter on August 28, 2010, 11:10:28 PM
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
Well we now see that Who avoids the tough questions that I have thrown out for him... He only replies on the post that he thinks he can gain an upper hand, but everyone has already been exposing him for the way he really is..

Much Peace and healing
 :peace:

Ah, I see, no need to be rude, Botched,  her time there brought us closer.  I think mostly because she matured and learned to communicate so much better.  One of our problems was we didn't communicate very well and some of that was my fault.  So we both worked on that ,  But she matured way beyond her age during her stay there.  I was told this would happen but was amazed at how much she had grown.  We have a very good relationship now.



...
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: Che Gookin on August 28, 2010, 11:37:18 PM
Botched, at this point you only have yourself to blame for this hideous poor use of time. If you feel this strongly about programs you have a funny way of showing it. Slaying the whooterdragon hasn't yet happened on these forums. You know why? Too many of the people who need help being redirected away from abusing their children by proxy don't have the institutional memory of the Whooter''s many overblown antics. We have entire threads devoted to figuring out who he is, yet, it hasn't yet stopped him from posting.

We have people compiling evidence to prove his identity, yet, that hasn't shut him up.

-Though it is my opinion he isn't who everyone thinks he is.

We've had people claiming him to be a child rapist, yet, that hasn't stopped him.

- Which I don't believe for a second that he is.

We've had people create threads of his various misdeeds on this forum, yet, that hasn't stopped him.

- Which are a two way street in many occasions of people flaming each other back and forth and then picking out what they find the most incriminating.

We have people constantly fighting back and forth, yet, he's still here wasting your time.

Whoops, homie Who just won round one two and three.

Here is a protip about the Whooter, if you really want to get to know him, don't take him seriously. I really don't pay him much mind and have actually gotten some fairly useful advice off the guy when I went into a management position with my company. I took from it what I found useful, which was a far bit of it, and discarded the rest. All the rest of the BS about the Whooter is mainly false flag crap he's probably put out there themselves knowing there are the forum parrots who will hoot about anything they can, and in the process make themselves look like insane wack jobs.

The real losers here are the kids in the program who could use the benefit of your experience. People will listen to you if you present your personal story in a way that strikes a chord with them. As humans, we are all very emotional creatures. Certain things strike home much quicker than other things.

I'm telling you bro... Give this up.. I'd hate to see you become the next fornits member to join the Whooter Patrol and piss away hour after hour doing nothing much of anything useful. Those are hours you can spend slipping anti-AA flyers under windshields at your nearest AA meeting. You've done this before, you posted that you felt incredibly liberated by the experience.

Please, both you and Samara.. Stop wasting your time on these clowns and start finding some productive means of finding it is what you are looking for. Because I can't believe for a second this is getting either of you anything other than a major headache.
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: DannyB II on August 28, 2010, 11:51:44 PM
Quote from: "Samara"
Danny, anyone who has read your posts can plainly see your misogyny. All I had to do is read the absolute disgusting stuff you wrote about Anne. It was deeply unsettling to many of us. You really don't have a high ground to stand on.  All you do is project anyway. There is no way a man with any healthy, balanced feelings for women would write the way you wrote about Ms. Bonney.  I was actually afraid of you.

What is so funny though is you have no problem with women questioning a males sexuality, telling males to suck dick, take it up the ass, that I dragged a girl around with a Van ect.....all this just went right by you. You never read any of it.
This is exactly what I mean, your a phony.
Yes Samara, I just hate my daughter, significant other, 3 sisters, aunt ect.....and they all know it. I am just horrible.
Listen,  Anne, Felice, Sharon, and others have no respect for themselves, this is not my fault. I will not take any of there garbage. I don't take shit from anyone here, just ask Paul, Ursus, Joel, Che, DJ and others. I don't care what gender you are.
Samara, if it makes you feel better as a women to call me a women hater/abuser, well have at it. Who am I to stand in your way of happiness. Maybe next you will be saying I am the reason your alone.
"There is no way a man with any healthy, balanced feelings for women would write the way you wrote about Ms. Bonney.  I was actually afraid of you".
OK, Samara, let me hear you comment on the hate, bile vulgar things Anne has said to me, prior to me escalating my remarks.
Samara, you are not a counselor nor are you educated enough to make a observation as such.
What I have said to Anne, is what she is putting out. Look at her avatar, who shows their ass on a TTI web site to a bunch of guys. Now we move on to her disciples Felice and Sharon and there filth.
Hey, girl, where were you when I was getting my ass kicked by these women, no where, just like you were no where when Morgan was being abused by the filth here. I openly stuck up for her, pm'ed her, spoke with her, kicked others asses because of what they did to her. Where were you???? Yes I have read your explanations, oh I said something, I told them they were wrong. Your freaking buddies with them today, this girl was 15 and your afraid of me, give me a break. You are so full of contradictions.
Don't lecture me when it concerns respect for women, I have it in abundance.
Maybe you should be asking yourself where you stand, concerning men, at this point in your life.
Title: Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
Post by: Joel on August 29, 2010, 12:37:00 AM
Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: DannyB II on August 29, 2010, 12:47:30 AM
Quote
Joel wrote:
This is a learned behavior.  Danny, IMHO, learned this at ELAN or saw violence in his home.  He shows little remorse for his actions towards people on this forum.  Danny is in his 50's and exhibits no interest in learning effective anger management strategies.  If he wants to abuse people, that's his choice.  His family, friends and employees will pay the price.
 

Joel, you really want to go here. I have saved every PM you have ever sent me. Remember flooding my Pm box with the guy shitting myself. You sent me that PM, listen up now, "31" times. You have sent a 1/2 dozen links that could have mucked up my
computer for a while. You have sent me threatening PM's.
I have them all. I also have the PM's you send me then erase, all 17 of them.
Please do send me more, use different names.
Thanks,  sweet cheeks.
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: anythinganyone on August 29, 2010, 04:08:32 PM
Quote from: "DannyB II"
Quote
Joel wrote:
This is a learned behavior.  Danny, IMHO, learned this at ELAN or saw violence in his home.  He shows little remorse for his actions towards people on this forum.  Danny is in his 50's and exhibits no interest in learning effective anger management strategies.  If he wants to abuse people, that's his choice.  His family, friends and employees will pay the price.
 

Joel, you really want to go here. I have saved every PM you have ever sent me. Remember flooding my Pm box with the guy shitting myself. You sent me that PM, listen up now, "31" times. You have sent a 1/2 dozen links that could have mucked up my
computer for a while. You have sent me threatening PM's.
I have them all. I also have the PM's you send me then erase, all 17 of them.
Please do send me more, use different names.
Thanks,  sweet cheeks.

lol
Title: Re: Fornits: A Primer for the Uninitiated
Post by: DannyB II on August 29, 2010, 05:25:45 PM
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"Che Gookin" wrote:
Botched, at this point you only have yourself to blame for this hideous poor use of time. If you feel this strongly about programs you have a funny way of showing it. Slaying the whooterdragon hasn't yet happened on these forums. You know why? Too many of the people who need help being redirected away from abusing their children by proxy don't have the institutional memory of the Whooter''s many overblown antics. We have entire threads devoted to figuring out who he is, yet, it hasn't yet stopped him from posting.

To fornit members,

I skipped the rest of it because I am sure you get it. Aaron is now using another tactic, Hmmmmm.....let me massage Whooter, see if I can try the good cop approach. Next you will be coming around to try an split us up. Danny is the bad guy and Whooter is not to bad after all.
 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:
Aaron let me help ya, were not connected personally. We share some views concerning fornits. The other thing we have in common is the fact we are attacked often for our opinions.
Difference between Whooter and myself, Whooter most often ignores the attacks and sticks to the point and can be very much the gentlemen. I, on the other hand, will not ignore condescending twits, will attack back usually with far greater force, and I do not care if while raging war, I look like a gentleman.  
Well, I am not actually waging war but what a "Freudian slip". I will internalize this crack in my armor.  
All I have ever asked since I have been here is, treat everyone with respect regardless of opinion. No, that is too tall an order around here. Well, you get what you give.  
Maybe if everyone would just stick to the topic and stay away from personal attacks, hey, we could get somewhere here. I am willing.  
Never have I heard Tim, Tiger, Suck-IT (Max) degrade, debase or insult anyone here. Whooter rarely looses his cool due to chronic abuse.
That is my job so to speak, stick up for the folks that are being abused here by giving back. Yes I purposely give back what you hand out, and you don't like it.
I would love to be fired from my job, stand down, move on and maybe get another job. What a concept, just come here and share my thoughts and opinions, not worry about being attacked. Be allowed to have a different opinion.
I think Fornits is moving slowly towards the middle, especially after the debacle with Suck-It, he did have some valid points. So happy he is still here.
 The question is. Why can't we coexist??? Is it because we just don't want to or is it truly impossible?? I think in the coming weeks and months we will see. What kind of people we are.
 The fighting that goes on;  here is only from a few, the Elan Forum and 5-6 members from other programs. We should all be embarrassed with how we act towards one another.  We are not enemies, though we act like it.  We are more like brothers and sisters squabbling over minor points to a far greater discussion that we are not ready to have.
 Folks have questioned my emotional and mental stability, since I have come here, you/I should wonder. Anyone here who has been abused as a child should question their sensibility.   No doubt most of us who went through a mindfuck early on will struggle in life. I do not believe anyone here would argue that.  What struggles, I/we have and to what extent these troubles manifest are of importance. I constantly have sought guidance to help myself through God, family, friends and counseling. It is an ongoing process.  I don't want it to end, the education is comforting. I have always felt hope.