Fornits

Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: MorganMDC on July 02, 2010, 04:05:35 PM

Title: Academy at Sisters
Post by: MorganMDC on July 02, 2010, 04:05:35 PM
Well, I'm not sure this is where this post goes, but at this moment, I don't give a shit.
I'm at risk of being sent to the Academy at Sisters - http://www.academyatsisters.org/ (http://www.academyatsisters.org/) for all of you who aren't aware, - and from my perspective, it looks like hell.
There is no real review anywhere online of this place, and thus, I'm hoping someone here can give me a little insight towards what the program is like, etc.
It appears that they will strip me of my communication with friends, music, and band clothing.
This sounds horrible to me.
Anyone with experience or knowledge of this academy?
Anything is greatly appreciated...
-Morgan
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 02, 2010, 04:46:48 PM
*looks it over*

*sees standard program tactics*

Oh yeah. It's a shithole. Best case scenario: You endure months of psychological abuse as they continually attempt to re-mold your mind. Worst case? Look at my signature.

Morgan, there are a LOT of things you can do to protect yourself right now. I'll post some here and PM you with some others.

The first and most obvious is to get your parents in contact with members of Fornits. There are a whole lot of people here who were seriously, repeatedly abused. They can tell your parents things that no one was meant to know about.

The second is to get yourself an attorney. No, I'm seriously not kidding, and yes, I know you're a minor. Give THIS guy a call.

Phil Elberg
http://www.lawyers.com/New-Jersey/Newar ... 150-a.html (http://www.lawyers.com/New-Jersey/Newark/Philip-Elberg-1108150-a.html)
973-642-1300

He's been fighting these shitholes for years. If he can't represent you he can get you in contact with people in your state who can help. You might think "He can't do shit"- he's a fucking lawyer. They have ways of doing shit.

The third is self-protection, and this gets ugly. You have no idea of the tricks that have been used to send kids there. Don't accept any drinks from your parents before bedtime, as it could be drugged. (This has happened). If they tell you that you're taking a "vacation" somewhere else nearby, it's a fucking trick. If they try to drive you there themselves your best bet is to jump out of the car and get the cops involved. If they try to fly you there, make a huge scene on the airplane and tell the captain that you do not want to be on that aircraft (modern airport security procedures will make sure you *don't* fly). Your parents could send "escorts" to drag you at the middle of the night; there are a number of defenses here, but the best bet is to carry a knife and start stabbing something. (A girl protecting herself against a couple of large men? I doubt the cops will prosecute). One kid handcuffed himself to the bed and left the key in his mouth.

You *really* don't want to have to start doing shit in the third category. But it's better than what your parents have in store.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Nihilanthic on July 02, 2010, 04:59:09 PM
I suggest you call elberg on a cellphone while getting far away from your house, friends, your friend's parents, and anyone who could know who to rat you out to, and start thinking like you're a murder suspect and GTFO.

Alternatively, break literally everything in your parent's house and then turn yourself in to the cops. I recommend a claw hammer.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Nihilanthic on July 02, 2010, 05:03:21 PM
I would consider talking to relatives who might find this fishy and asking if they'd take you in - but do NOT give your location away unless you know they're guaranteed to not fuck you over. If they pick you up and take you to your house, crash the vehicle.

If you get 'escorted', crash the vehicle. Grab the wheel and stomp the throttle and don't let him touch the brake. Make every attempt to over power them or get them in an awkward situation, such as coming on to them or play the desperate/slutty/whatever card. Programs are a living fucking hell and frankly mutilation and prison time is preferable, as would be giving road-head before crashing the vehicle.

You would be held incommunicado with no way to reach family, legal representation, or anyone at all on the outside. They will continually torture you for years.  This is not a joke. This is no bullshit, this shit is real and yes it happens in the USA.

Get food, get a weapon, get resources, don't even leave your phone on - take the battery OUT and keep it so a) you can't be tracked and b) the charge lasts longer. Take the charger with you and charge it at outlets you can find, like homeless people do with prepaid phones. Also, in case I didn't make the point clearly.

GET OUT.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Nihilanthic on July 02, 2010, 05:10:17 PM
I should add Portland has a very well developed street and homeless community - however you want to put it, I do not want to digress to politics - and they would probably be willing to help you to at least some degree.

You strike me as very, very innocent. You were ridiculously easy to locate. Find a way to communicate and we can arrange talking on the phone if you wish. But keep in mind your innocence will attract as many predators in a program as it would on the street, though in the latter you're quite a bit better off.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: MorganMDC on July 02, 2010, 05:10:18 PM
Quote from: "Nihilanthic"
I would consider talking to relatives who might find this fishy and asking if they'd take you in - but do NOT give your location away unless you know they're guaranteed to not fuck you over. If they pick you up and take you to your house, crash the vehicle.

If you get 'escorted', crash the vehicle. Grab the wheel and stomp the throttle and don't let him touch the brake. Make every attempt to over power them or get them in an awkward situation, such as coming on to them or play the desperate/slutty/whatever card. Programs are a living fucking hell and frankly mutilation and prison time is preferable, as would be giving road-head before crashing the vehicle.

You would be held incommunicado with no way to reach family, legal representation, or anyone at all on the outside. They will continually torture you for years.  This is not a joke. This is no bullshit, this shit is real and yes it happens in the USA.

Get food, get a weapon, get resources, don't even leave your phone on - take the battery OUT and keep it so a) you can't be tracked and b) the charge lasts longer. Take the charger with you and charge it at outlets you can find, like homeless people do with prepaid phones. Also, in case I didn't make the point clearly.

GET OUT.



And just when I thought it wouldn't be that bad.
I'm just glad I can get some people to back up my fears on this, and I'm not just over doing it.
I will do whatever it takes to avoid this program, and seeing to how I have no family my parents wouldn't thoroughly search, I'll have to.
Is there honestly a legal way to get out of these programs? I mean, I've come to the understanding that the law backs up the elders.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: MorganMDC on July 02, 2010, 05:12:07 PM
Quote from: "Nihilanthic"
I should add Portland has a very well developed street and homeless community - however you want to put it, I do not want to digress to politics - and they would probably be willing to help you to at least some degree.

You strike me as very, very innocent. You were ridiculously easy to locate. Find a way to communicate and we can arrange talking on the phone if you wish. But keep in mind your innocence will attract as many predators in a program as it would on the street, though in the latter you're quite a bit better off.
I'm not necessarily innocent, so much as sheltered from this situation.
I have not yet had to deal with bullshit of this level, seeing as to how up until now, I've pretty much raised myself since age nine.
I don't think homelessness would be too much of an issue, I lived on the streets of Portland for an entire year and did well.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Nihilanthic on July 02, 2010, 05:15:24 PM
CALL PHIL ALREADY!?!??!?!
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: MorganMDC on July 02, 2010, 05:18:53 PM
Quote from: "Nihilanthic"
CALL PHIL ALREADY!?!??!?!
My cell will have none of it. It's screeching.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Nihilanthic on July 02, 2010, 05:20:20 PM
Quote from: "MorganMDC"
Quote from: "Nihilanthic"
I should add Portland has a very well developed street and homeless community - however you want to put it, I do not want to digress to politics - and they would probably be willing to help you to at least some degree.

You strike me as very, very innocent. You were ridiculously easy to locate. Find a way to communicate and we can arrange talking on the phone if you wish. But keep in mind your innocence will attract as many predators in a program as it would on the street, though in the latter you're quite a bit better off.
I'm not necessarily innocent, so much as sheltered from this situation.
I have not yet had to deal with bullshit of this level, seeing as to how up until now, I've pretty much raised myself since age nine.
I don't think homelessness would be too much of an issue, I lived on the streets of Portland for an entire year and did well.

I strongly suggest returning to that if they're really going to pull this shit.

Then again, I should ask how you found out they were considering this, or what their perceived problems are they seek to 'fix'.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Nihilanthic on July 02, 2010, 05:21:57 PM
Quote from: "MorganMDC"
Quote from: "Nihilanthic"
CALL PHIL ALREADY!?!??!?!
My cell will have none of it. It's screeching.
I only got a damn message anyway, it's late.

I suppose monday would work.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: MorganMDC on July 02, 2010, 05:23:48 PM
Quote from: "Nihilanthic"
Quote from: "MorganMDC"
Quote from: "Nihilanthic"
I should add Portland has a very well developed street and homeless community - however you want to put it, I do not want to digress to politics - and they would probably be willing to help you to at least some degree.

You strike me as very, very innocent. You were ridiculously easy to locate. Find a way to communicate and we can arrange talking on the phone if you wish. But keep in mind your innocence will attract as many predators in a program as it would on the street, though in the latter you're quite a bit better off.
I'm not necessarily innocent, so much as sheltered from this situation.
I have not yet had to deal with bullshit of this level, seeing as to how up until now, I've pretty much raised myself since age nine.
I don't think homelessness would be too much of an issue, I lived on the streets of Portland for an entire year and did well.

I strongly suggest returning to that if they're really going to pull this shit.

Then again, I should ask how you found out they were considering this, or what their perceived problems are they seek to 'fix'.
They straight up told me they were going to do it.
They're taking me for a tour on Monday, and I'd be leaving the 18th of August.
My mother is filling out the paperwork as I type this.
They are trying to fix my "lieing" and my "bad grades" and my "lack of motivation towards college".
Meh, yeah, I suppose it is late over there.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Nihilanthic on July 02, 2010, 05:28:04 PM
I cannot believe the program would not warn your parents out of telling you in advance, but their lack of due diligence is your gain, so to speak. I've seen documents for WWASPS programs stating to NOT let your child know in advance, for fuck's sake.

If you know how to stay secluded and communicate incommunicado I'd point them towards information about such places. Even if they don't wake up and smell the suffering, at least you can say you tried, and it could help you to stay out of contact and far away until you're 18.

When you do turn 18, at any rate, community college would probably be a good option. It's honesty easy and not a pain in the ass like Highschool is, and if you have no income you could easily qualify for grants. Then again, the whole reason for their need to 'fix' you probably comes from you not neatly fitting into their ideas of what a middle class kid should be, right?

I don't know if I'm more upset with having to tell you this, or that the USA could allow such a situation to occur, but it's the most I can do from 3000 miles away. If I knew anyone near you I'd try to arrange something, but everyone I'm an acquaintance with is chickening out.

Take care of yourself. If you have siblings I'd warn then too.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: MorganMDC on July 02, 2010, 05:31:03 PM
Quote from: "Nihilanthic"
I cannot believe the program would not warn your parents out of telling you in advance, but their lack of due diligence is your gain, so to speak. I've seen documents for WWASPS programs stating to NOT let your child know in advance, for fuck's sake.

If you know how to stay secluded and communicate incommunicado I'd point them towards information about such places. Even if they don't wake up and smell the suffering, at least you can say you tried, and it could help you to stay out of contact and far away until you're 18.

When you do turn 18, at any rate, community college would probably be a good option. It's honesty easy and not a pain in the ass like Highschool is, and if you have no income you could easily qualify for grants. Then again, the whole reason for their need to 'fix' you probably comes from you not neatly fitting into their ideas of what a middle class kid should be, right?

I don't know if I'm more upset with having to tell you this, or that the USA could allow such a situation to occur, but it's the most I can do from 3000 miles away. If I knew anyone near you I'd try to arrange something, but everyone I'm an acquaintance with is chickening out.

Take care of yourself. If you have siblings I'd warn then too.

She even let me read the forms. It's more idiocy then anything on her part.
I simply wanted to move the UK to finish school, which "is an option if you complete this life saving program" - exact quote, no doubt.
I'm not well dressed, a cheerleader, and getting straight A's... What other view of middle class girls is there anymore?
I appreciate what you've offered thus far anyway, every little bit helps. With no other information on it except one most besides this on the forums, not much one can learn.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Nihilanthic on July 02, 2010, 05:40:22 PM
While absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence, all I can suggest is that either the program is new, or isn't as bad as others.

Then again, equivalence fallacies or rationalization of a bad thing as not being "as bad" as something else is fucking stupid - I probably don't need to tell you this, of course. Nevertheless, I do hate that I'd have to even bring this up to anyone, ever, let alone tell someone to not trust their parents ever again.

What forums are you speaking of, might I ask?
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 02, 2010, 05:43:28 PM
Quote from: "MorganMDC"
They're taking me for a tour on Monday

THE TOUR IS BULLSHIT

THE TOUR IS BULLSHIT

THE TOUR IS BULLSHIT

They actually plan to leave you there during that "tour".
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: MorganMDC on July 02, 2010, 05:45:03 PM
Quote from: "Nihilanthic"
While absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence, all I can suggest is that either the program is new, or isn't as bad as others.

Then again, equivalence fallacies or rationalization of a bad thing as not being "as bad" as something else is fucking stupid - I probably don't need to tell you this, of course. Nevertheless, I do hate that I'd have to even bring this up to anyone, ever, let alone tell someone to not trust their parents ever again.

What forums are you speaking of, might I ask?
I don't need you to tell me not to trust my parents ever again, that's a given from birth.
There really aren't any. I found one post on this academy here, and one on yahoo answers. Besides that, no one seems to know anything - excluding a myspace group that's first post is, "Stella became a pornstar?!?!"
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Troll Control on July 02, 2010, 06:35:46 PM
Quote from: "MorganMDC"
Quote from: "Nihilanthic"
I cannot believe the program would not warn your parents out of telling you in advance, but their lack of due diligence is your gain, so to speak. I've seen documents for WWASPS programs stating to NOT let your child know in advance, for fuck's sake.

If you know how to stay secluded and communicate incommunicado I'd point them towards information about such places. Even if they don't wake up and smell the suffering, at least you can say you tried, and it could help you to stay out of contact and far away until you're 18.

When you do turn 18, at any rate, community college would probably be a good option. It's honesty easy and not a pain in the ass like Highschool is, and if you have no income you could easily qualify for grants. Then again, the whole reason for their need to 'fix' you probably comes from you not neatly fitting into their ideas of what a middle class kid should be, right?

I don't know if I'm more upset with having to tell you this, or that the USA could allow such a situation to occur, but it's the most I can do from 3000 miles away. If I knew anyone near you I'd try to arrange something, but everyone I'm an acquaintance with is chickening out.

Take care of yourself. If you have siblings I'd warn then too.

She even let me read the forms. It's more idiocy then anything on her part.
I simply wanted to move the UK to finish school, which "is an option if you complete this life saving program" - exact quote, no doubt.
I'm not well dressed, a cheerleader, and getting straight A's... What other view of middle class girls is there anymore?
I appreciate what you've offered thus far anyway, every little bit helps. With no other information on it except one most besides this on the forums, not much one can learn.

How old are you, Morgan?  Did your mom get roped in by an Educational Consultant?  Or did she get a referral from some other program parent?  How did she come to pick this place?  Where are you located?

You will get a lot of advice here, but DO NOT follow any advice that directs you to commit criminal acts, as this will only steel your mother's resolve to send you away and get you involved with Johny Law.  I DO NOT advise this course of action.  A few of us have your mother's contact information and will try to reason with her on your behalf.  Unfortunately, there isn't much else we can do from here.

Please answer the above questions and contact Mr. Elberg ASAP.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: MorganMDC on July 02, 2010, 06:47:56 PM
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Quote from: "MorganMDC"
Quote from: "Nihilanthic"
I cannot believe the program would not warn your parents out of telling you in advance, but their lack of due diligence is your gain, so to speak. I've seen documents for WWASPS programs stating to NOT let your child know in advance, for fuck's sake.

If you know how to stay secluded and communicate incommunicado I'd point them towards information about such places. Even if they don't wake up and smell the suffering, at least you can say you tried, and it could help you to stay out of contact and far away until you're 18.

When you do turn 18, at any rate, community college would probably be a good option. It's honesty easy and not a pain in the ass like Highschool is, and if you have no income you could easily qualify for grants. Then again, the whole reason for their need to 'fix' you probably comes from you not neatly fitting into their ideas of what a middle class kid should be, right?

I don't know if I'm more upset with having to tell you this, or that the USA could allow such a situation to occur, but it's the most I can do from 3000 miles away. If I knew anyone near you I'd try to arrange something, but everyone I'm an acquaintance with is chickening out.

Take care of yourself. If you have siblings I'd warn then too.

She even let me read the forms. It's more idiocy then anything on her part.
I simply wanted to move the UK to finish school, which "is an option if you complete this life saving program" - exact quote, no doubt.
I'm not well dressed, a cheerleader, and getting straight A's... What other view of middle class girls is there anymore?
I appreciate what you've offered thus far anyway, every little bit helps. With no other information on it except one most besides this on the forums, not much one can learn.

How old are you, Morgan?  Did your mom get roped in by an Educational Consultant?  Or did she get a referral from some other program parent?  How did she come to pick this place?  Where are you located?

You will get a lot of advice here, but DO NOT follow any advice that directs you to commit criminal acts, as this will only steel your mother's resolve to send you away and get you involved with Johny Law.  I DO NOT advise this course of action.  A few of us have your mother's contact information and will try to reason with her on your behalf.  Unfortunately, there isn't much else we can do from here.

Please answer the above questions and contact Mr. Elberg ASAP.

I am fifteen years old. She was roped in by both. She picked it, because it is the only option. Oregon. Beaverton, Oregon.
Her e-mail is of course the best way to reason with her, not only due to phone issues, but because direct abuse after hang up is not pleasent.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Troll Control on July 02, 2010, 06:58:53 PM
Understood.  And thank you.  Please understand that when you go on a "tour" of these places, you don't leave.  I'd advise disappearing for a while before that "tour" happens.  If you go, you're not coming back.  That much we all know here.

Is your family of means?  That is, do they have a lot of money?  If not, you could potentially break the stranglehold financially.  If your mom keeps taking off from work and still never getting you to go with her, she might need to give in because she can't afford to sustain the struggle financially.  If she has money, this will be tougher.

I worked as a therapist for many years and at two of these "programs" also as a noob graduate.  I'm going to email your mom and shoot her straight about what she's about to do to your life.  Hopefully if she hears enough sound advice, she may change her mind.  We've (a few of us here at Fornits) have done that before for young people in your situation and have been successful.  Keep your head down and your your stuff wired tight and we'll see what we can do.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: MorganMDC on July 02, 2010, 07:04:23 PM
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Understood.  And thank you.  Please understand that when you go on a "tour" of these places, you don't leave.  I'd advise disappearing for a while before that "tour" happens.  If you go, you're not coming back.  That much we all know here.

Is your family of means?  That is, do they have a lot of money?  If not, you could potentially break the stranglehold financially.  If your mom keeps taking off from work and still never getting you to go with her, she might need to give in because she can't afford to sustain the struggle financially.  If she has money, this will be tougher.

I worked as a therapist for many years and at two of these "programs" also as a noob graduate.  I'm going to email your mom and shoot her straight about what she's about to do to your life.  Hopefully if she hears enough sound advice, she may change her mind.  We've (a few of us here at Fornits) have done that before for young people in your situation and have been successful.  Keep your head down and your your stuff wired tight and we'll see what we can do.
My father is the worker, my mother is the lazy bitch on the couch - sorry.
It's about half or more of my fathers monthly paycheck, that's all I know.
All I can do is hope that someone can talk sense into her. If she doesn't feel it's the truth, or if she feels it is the truth she doesn't want to face, I'm a bit screwed.
I appreciate everyone's help, again, and the understanding that my father must not hear of this, and no phone calls can be made.
My mother and e-mail is my best bet.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 02, 2010, 07:06:04 PM
Quote from: "MorganMDC"
my father must not hear of this, and no phone calls can be made.

We can grant the second- some of us, anyway- but there's no chance in hell on the first. He WILL hear of this, one way or another, and he WILL be reading this topic. Sorry.

If you're worried about making him violent, make him violent. Hopefully he'll leave bruises. And then you can call the cops on *him*. That'll put this whole business to an abrupt halt.

(Dear Morgan's Dad: Yes. We do give advice like that. Do you have any fucking idea what exactly you are getting into here?)
Title: Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
Post by: Joel on July 02, 2010, 07:10:22 PM
Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Troll Control on July 02, 2010, 07:11:52 PM
Quote from: "MorganMDC"
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Understood.  And thank you.  Please understand that when you go on a "tour" of these places, you don't leave.  I'd advise disappearing for a while before that "tour" happens.  If you go, you're not coming back.  That much we all know here.

Is your family of means?  That is, do they have a lot of money?  If not, you could potentially break the stranglehold financially.  If your mom keeps taking off from work and still never getting you to go with her, she might need to give in because she can't afford to sustain the struggle financially.  If she has money, this will be tougher.

I worked as a therapist for many years and at two of these "programs" also as a noob graduate.  I'm going to email your mom and shoot her straight about what she's about to do to your life.  Hopefully if she hears enough sound advice, she may change her mind.  We've (a few of us here at Fornits) have done that before for young people in your situation and have been successful.  Keep your head down and your your stuff wired tight and we'll see what we can do.
My father is the worker, my mother is the lazy bitch on the couch - sorry.
It's about half or more of my fathers monthly paycheck, that's all I know.
All I can do is hope that someone can talk sense into her. If she doesn't feel it's the truth, or if she feels it is the truth she doesn't want to face, I'm a bit screwed.
I appreciate everyone's help, again, and the understanding that my father must not hear of this, and no phone calls can be made.
My mother and e-mail is my best bet.

Well, it sounds like there's not much money to spare if it's half his paycheck (unless he makes $250k plus).  It's a big gamble spending that kind of money on a program.  They just don't work.  They're scams and shams at best (see the "children are products" link in my signature - this is what they believe), outright abusive at worst.  Some of them have killed many kids in their "care."  Your folks will learn of this...today.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: MorganMDC on July 02, 2010, 07:14:38 PM
Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
Quote from: "MorganMDC"
my father must not hear of this, and no phone calls can be made.

We can grant the second- some of us, anyway- but there's no chance in hell on the first. He WILL hear of this, one way or another, and he WILL be reading this topic. Sorry.

If you're worried about making him violent, make him violent. Hopefully he'll leave bruises. And then you can call the cops on *him*. That'll put this whole business to an abrupt halt.

(Dear Morgan's Dad: Yes. We do give advice like that. Do you have any fucking idea what exactly you are getting into here?)
Meh, My father isn't the one I'm worried about, is all. He doesn't want this either, and he's the only one in my line of family I can tolerate. I do appreciate the absence of phone calls. I cannot control any one person, thus I'll stop trying.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Awake on July 02, 2010, 07:15:34 PM
I sympathize with your position.  Advice is hard to give here.  Although I certainly would understand taking extreme measures to avoid going, I canít recommend doing something that will be held against you later. Whatever you do, understand that you cannot make a Ďrightí decision right now. If you run, or fight, or take any defensive measure that will be considered Ďout of controlí they are going to use those actions against you to further label you Ďtroubledí.  I certainly will not hold it against you, you are trying to protect yourself, but you will not get that reaction from them, you will be held individually accountable.  In the end you may not be able to avoid going, and what you do now will become your Ďissuesí in therapy, and it will be hard to live with there. So right now my advice is to fight, but do it in the most respectable way you can.  In the end, even if you have to go, at least you will be able to say you were acting maturely, and kept a level head, which is more than can be said for them.  Being able to say, ĎI couldíve gone to the lengths of running away, threatening violence (etc.), but I wouldnít let them scare me into being the wrong oneí, will be a strong defense.

Bottom line, they are wrong and you are right. Your parents are scared, and that fear is motivating a harmful decision. They are not thinking clearly and you should help them understand that good decisions donít come from being in an emotional tizzy, they come from being rational and logical. Your parents donít know and are not informed about what they are about to put you through. My suggestion is to challenge them on that.  How much detail do they really know about the place? How researched are they about their methodologies? Do they understand the program will never be transparent? How much of their decision is emotional, or fear based?  If this is the basis of their decision making, maybe it is not you that has the problem, and it is really them that needs help.  If you can calmly get that point across, and they still send you there, that will be quite a statement as to what kind of parents they are and how much they really care about you.  

The programs website is a typical fluff piece showing videos of teens talking about their Ďissuesí, and for those like you parents reaching out for any answer it is the relief of tension they are looking for. They have no idea how easy it is to contrive such an outward appearance.  

So my advice for now is to not do anything that will allow them to say, ĎWhat were we supposed to do, your actions gave us no choice, we had to do something.í Make sure that you donít Ďmakeí them do anything, make sure that their decision is THEIRS and that they be accountable for it.  This is just my advice, I don't want to sound hopeless, I certaily don't think therapy should be forced on you, and I don't want you to just roll over here, but it might be the most effective approach right now.

Iím leaving this link for you to read.  I donít know your parents, but maybe if you showed it to them it might influence their decision.  If you have to go, print it out and sneak it in, share it with the Ďstudentsí, openly challenge their Ďtherapyí with it. It may help you there, and they might not even want to keep you there if they canít get you to buy into their games.  They are putting you in a double bind, take a look.    viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30423&start=0 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30423&start=0)  

.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 02, 2010, 07:17:24 PM
Quote from: "MorganMDC"
He doesn't want this either

Then it's time for him to man the fuck up and tell his wife "HELL NO", now isn't it?!
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Troll Control on July 02, 2010, 07:23:10 PM
Definitely appeal to dad then.  Get him here to read up.  Educate him as Awake avised.  Keep at it, respectfully, open the dialogue and keep trying.  Work on dad if you think you can get him to listen.  In the meantime, try to steer your mom here and don't aggravate the situation with her.

Does anyone have any info on this place?  Staff?  License? Complaints to regulators?  Ties to known abusive programs?  etc...
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: MorganMDC on July 02, 2010, 07:28:37 PM
Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
Quote from: "MorganMDC"
He doesn't want this either

Then it's time for him to man the fuck up and tell his wife "HELL NO", now isn't it?!


It is, but it won't happen.

Dysfunction Junction,
He is whipped as fuck, not a chance.
He wants to be the friend, not the dad.

I myself couldn't find even one review on this place, thus I came here.
For all I know, nothings happened yet.
I want to be sure.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 02, 2010, 07:29:59 PM
Quote from: "MorganMDC"
He wants to be the friend, not the dad.

Then give your "friend" a call (or an email, whatever) and tell him that your mother is about to send you away to be quite literally tortured and that he has less than three days to man the fuck up.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: MorganMDC on July 02, 2010, 07:32:46 PM
Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
Quote from: "MorganMDC"
He wants to be the friend, not the dad.

Then give your "friend" a call (or an email, whatever) and tell him that your mother is about to send you away to be quite literally tortured and that he has less than three days to man the fuck up.
Funny you should mention.
He's sitting behind me looking up the place on google maps, all smiley about it.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 02, 2010, 07:35:14 PM
Then focus his attention onto another computer in the room. (Oh God, dad looking the place up on google while daughter is ON FORNITS... oh fucking god the irony)

Look, Daniel? You are making a BIG FUCKING MISTAKE. Everything the program is trying to tell you is pure bullshit. Everything they have in store for your daughter is vicious, evil, and a horrible psychological experience. YOU ARE SETTING THE STAGE FOR LIFELONG TRAUMA. Get your own account here and you can have a lot of people with a lot of direct experience tell you this.

Forget about what his reaction might be, Morgan! It can't be any worse than "passively letting his daughter get sent to a shithole" can it?
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: MorganMDC on July 02, 2010, 07:39:48 PM
Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
Then focus his attention onto another computer in the room. (Oh God, dad looking the place up on google while daughter is ON FORNITS... oh fucking god the irony)

Look, Daniel? You are making a BIG FUCKING MISTAKE. Everything the program is trying to tell you is pure bullshit. Everything they have in store for your daughter is vicious, evil, and a horrible psychological experience. YOU ARE SETTING THE STAGE FOR LIFELONG TRAUMA. Get your own account here and you can have a lot of people with a lot of direct experience tell you this.

Forget about what his reaction might be, Morgan! It can't be any worse than "passively letting his daughter get sent to a shithole" can it?
Haha, The irony is incredible.
That's not any of my worries. I know him, and he won't trust this forum is anything more than a bunch of teenagers sitting around bashing. He needs proof on the specific situation, or it's all just relative  :bs:
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 02, 2010, 07:44:59 PM
If he heard our voices I'm fairly sure he'd know we're not teenagers.

We have people trying to find the info on this particular place, but the reality is that they change names, etc *all the time*. The warning signs are all there: A bullshit testimonials page, "equine therapy", the PDF saying that he has to "stick with" the program. But for him to know *why* these are warning signs he'd have to come here himself and do some reading. (Protip: All the ones closed for abuse said the *exact same things*)

Perhaps he should be informed that the place almost certainly employs people from Sagewalk and Mount Bachelor Academy, two places shut down by the state of Oregon for abuse in that area.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: MorganMDC on July 02, 2010, 07:53:15 PM
Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
If he heard our voices I'm fairly sure he'd know we're not teenagers.

We have people trying to find the info on this particular place, but the reality is that they change names, etc *all the time*. The warning signs are all there: A bullshit testimonials page, "equine therapy", the PDF saying that he has to "stick with" the program. But for him to know *why* these are warning signs he'd have to come here himself and do some reading. (Protip: All the ones closed for abuse said the *exact same things*)

Perhaps he should be informed that the place almost certainly employs people from Sagewalk and Mount Bachelor Academy, two places shut down by the state of Oregon for abuse in that area.
It's virtually impossible to find any articles on anything about this place.
Page 9 of Google has one thing on them hiring a clinical psychologist, and that's all the general public can easily find.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 02, 2010, 07:57:52 PM
Quote from: "MorganMDC"
It's virtually impossible to find any articles on anything about this place.

That, itself, is a warning sign.

Morgan, would you *prefer* it if he never came here and just stood by until Monday, when if you're smart, you *won't* go there (even to the point of refusing to wear clothes, I'm serious. Whatever you think they're going to do to you for continually doing everything in your power not to go, MAKE THEM DO IT.)

Morgan. Seriously. Not fucking around. Forget what you think he will or won't believe. He needs to have access to the truth, and he needs it now.

Daniel, if you don't believe *me*, start talking to Dysfunction Junction, Joel, Anne Bonney, and Ursus.

But I can tell you right now that I will have absolutely no problem adding your daughter's name to the end of this list if the program kills her.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: MorganMDC on July 02, 2010, 07:59:56 PM
Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
Quote from: "MorganMDC"
It's virtually impossible to find any articles on anything about this place.

That, itself, is a warning sign.

Morgan, would you *prefer* it if he never came here and just stood by until Monday, when if you're smart, you *won't* go there (even to the point of refusing to wear clothes, I'm serious. Whatever you think they're going to do to you for continually doing everything in your power not to go, MAKE THEM DO IT.)

Morgan. Seriously. Not fucking around. Forget what you think he will or won't believe. He needs to have access to the truth, and he needs it now.

Daniel, if you don't believe *me*, start talking to Dysfunction Junction, Joel, Anne Bonney, and Ursus.

But I can tell you right now that I will have absolutely no problem adding your daughter's name to the end of this list if the program kills her.
Yeah, No kidding.
The only other thing I managed to get was the e-mail from the actual academy with all the academy info and enrollment documents.
Fuck it, I'll send him this link, it's worth a shot.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 02, 2010, 08:01:23 PM
Quote from: "MorganMDC"
The only other thing I managed to get was the e-mail from the actual academy with all the academy info and enrollment documents.

POST IT. All of it. Redact names if you want.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Ursus on July 02, 2010, 08:04:05 PM
Quote from: "MorganMDC"
Well, I'm not sure this is where this post goes, but at this moment, I don't give a shit.
I'm at risk of being sent to the Academy at Sisters - http://www.academyatsisters.org/ (http://www.academyatsisters.org/) for all of you who aren't aware, - and from my perspective, it looks like hell.
There is no real review anywhere online of this place, and thus, I'm hoping someone here can give me a little insight towards what the program is like, etc.
It appears that they will strip me of my communication with friends, music, and band clothing.
This sounds horrible to me.
Anyone with experience or knowledge of this academy?
Anything is greatly appreciated...
-Morgan
Still searching... It looks like it's a very small program, so the fact that there isn't info out there yet, doesn't necessarily mean that it's more benign.

It's a member of NATSAP, and got a Woodbury Reports "Excellence in Education Award" for 2008/2009 (they even provide a jpg link where you can view the vellum in all its glory). So... Academy at Sisters obviously buys into the rhetoric of the inner clique there.

However, there's a huge red flag for me in that it belongs to the Friends of Families with Children in Crisis Foundation. This was originally a CEDU parent oriented affair; it has since branched out a bit in later years. The other schools currently benefiting from this foundation are still mostly CEDU offspring with a sprinkling of Aspen Ed programs, plus The Oakley School. Here's an announcement made re. Monarch School, another of the participating programs; Academy at Sisters is mentioned in the lineup towards the end. I'd say this is pretty coercive company to keep:

-------------- ē -------------- ē --------------

Breaking News
Posted: Sep 10, 2008 06:30

Friends of Families Foundation
Lake Arrowhead, CA


Friends of Families Foundation Creates Monarch Fund (http://http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/publish/FriendsOfFamiliesBN_080910.shtml)

Contact:
Dr. Jim Powell
951-317-3151
http://www.friendsoffamilies.org (http://www.friendsoffamilies.org)

The Friends of Families with Children in Crisis Foundation is proud to announce the establishment of a Monarch Alumni Association Fund under the umbrella of The Foundation, the 1st such fund designed for one of its participating schools.

Supported by a generous donation from the Monarch Alumni Association and matching funds by the Foundation, this special purpose fund allows friends of the Monarch School (located in Heron, MT) to donate to the Foundation and earmark those monies for students attending Monarch School. While the donor may not name a particular benefitting student or family, targeted giving allows the Monarch School to benefit from the fund to provide financial support for future families in need.

"We are very excited to receive such generous support from the Monarch Alumni Association. Like our trustees, they are dedicated alumni parents working together to support families in need. We are looking forward to a long future of helping Monarch School students", stated Brandi Elliott, Foundation representative.

"Working together was a natural occurrence for us. We share similar experiences and visions both as parents and as charitable organizations. We encourage all of our participating schools, their related associations and parent/corporate organizations to contact us to discuss targeted giving opportunities unique to their school/program," said Joel Horowitz, Foundation trustee and co-founder. "Working side by side with the Foundation, allows us to leverage our resources to help more Monarch families", said Bruce Janklow, Co-President, Monarch Alumni Association.

The Friends of Families with Children in Crisis Foundation, originally founded in 1998 as The Friends of CEDU Foundation, is a non-profit corporation recognized as a Section 501(c) (3) charitable organization by the Internal Revenue Service. According to Elliott, since its inception, The Foundation has helped dozens of families. "In 2007, thanks to our generous donors, we were able to support 6 families. This new association helps keep our momentum going and will hopefully motivate others to participate and contribute."

Current Friends of Families Foundation participating schools include: Academy at Sisters (OR), Oakley School (UT), Boulder Creek Academy (ID), King George School (VT), New Leaf Academy of North Carolina (NC), New Leaf Academy of Oregon (OR), Copper Canyon Academy (AZ) Bromley Brook School (VT) and now Monarch School (MT). Other therapeutic boarding schools should review the Foundation's website to determine if they meet the criteria of a participating school.

All donations and fundraising ideas are encouraged and appreciated and should be directed to The Foundation's representatives, Brandi Elliott 951-315-8320 or Dr. Jim Powell 951-317-3151 or b.elliott@friendsoffamilies.org.


Copyright ©2010, Woodbury Reports, Inc.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: MorganMDC on July 02, 2010, 08:06:31 PM
Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
Quote from: "MorganMDC"
The only other thing I managed to get was the e-mail from the actual academy with all the academy info and enrollment documents.

POST IT. All of it. Redact names if you want.
Hopefully these thinks actually work.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid= ... UtXQ&pli=1 (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=gmail&attid=0.1&thid=1299556e6e1d8730&mt=application/msword&url=https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui%3D2%26ik%3D9d460504f1%26view%3Datt%26th%3D1299556e6e1d8730%26attid%3D0.1%26disp%3Dattd%26zw&sig=AHIEtbQrXFT6qqNaNcFxKOIRTkj6fYUtXQ&pli=1)

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid= ... I_qOG3mJEA (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=gmail&attid=0.2&thid=1299556e6e1d8730&mt=application/msword&url=https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui%3D2%26ik%3D9d460504f1%26view%3Datt%26th%3D1299556e6e1d8730%26attid%3D0.2%26disp%3Dattd%26zw&sig=AHIEtbRpAinNLhNZV9CnOT1zI_qOG3mJEA)

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid= ... 0zjPjer6iw (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=gmail&attid=0.3&thid=1299556e6e1d8730&mt=application/msword&url=https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui%3D2%26ik%3D9d460504f1%26view%3Datt%26th%3D1299556e6e1d8730%26attid%3D0.3%26disp%3Dattd%26zw&sig=AHIEtbTnrCWa3b59-7Exyzfm0zjPjer6iw)

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid= ... wOxYTXNM4g (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=gmail&attid=0.4&thid=1299556e6e1d8730&mt=application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document&url=https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui%3D2%26ik%3D9d460504f1%26view%3Datt%26th%3D1299556e6e1d8730%26attid%3D0.4%26disp%3Dattd%26zw&sig=AHIEtbSJy4np2GWuJf1DTw0iwOxYTXNM4g)

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid= ... Loattuojng (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=gmail&attid=0.5&thid=1299556e6e1d8730&mt=application/msword&url=https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui%3D2%26ik%3D9d460504f1%26view%3Datt%26th%3D1299556e6e1d8730%26attid%3D0.5%26disp%3Dattd%26zw&sig=AHIEtbQgYmm0qTmiv6R9mwXGLoattuojng)

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid= ... RwL-EMIbRA (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=gmail&attid=0.6&thid=1299556e6e1d8730&mt=application/msword&url=https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui%3D2%26ik%3D9d460504f1%26view%3Datt%26th%3D1299556e6e1d8730%26attid%3D0.6%26disp%3Dattd%26zw&sig=AHIEtbQpUKQctzdhAsO28pw_RwL-EMIbRA)
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 02, 2010, 08:12:33 PM
Not working. Try http://www.pastebin.ca (http://www.pastebin.ca) or other text dump site. Alternatively you can download the .pdfs and upload them to Fornits itself.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: MorganMDC on July 02, 2010, 08:20:12 PM
Hoping that works better.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Ursus on July 02, 2010, 08:23:42 PM
Parent organization of Academy at Sisters is J Bar J Youth Services (http://http://www.jbarj.org/). They run four programs; the more coercive ones are first and last:

Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 02, 2010, 08:28:17 PM
(Damn, Microsoft Word. Time to download the latest viewer.)

--

The Academy at Sisters Treatment Team consists of Case Managers, Clinical Director/Licensed Clinical Psychologist, Teacher(s), Academic Director, Operations Director and Executive Director.  To take advantage of the unified team talent and to ensure consistency throughout the process, the Treatment Team meets weekly to discuss the individual needs of each girl and the overall group dynamics, as well as make important treatment decisions as a Team.

Upon admission, each student is assigned a personal Case Manager. The Case Managerís responsibility is to make sure that all components of treatment (therapeutic, academic, familial, community, safety, and self) are being utilized effectively. They provide weekly one-to-one sessions for each student on their caseload, participate in various on and off-campus activities, carry out weekly family conferences, facilitate weekly groups, and continually evaluate all facets of the girlsí individual treatment plans with the oversight of Dr. Julie Schneider, Licensed Clinical Psychologist. This ensures that the individualís program is addressing her most immediate needs and reinforcing positive changes.

The Academy has built a strong Clinical Support Team within the community utilizing the services of a local Board Certified Child and Adolescent Psychiatrist for medication management; a Behavioral Consultant; and Licensed Therapists for additional support as needed. Which means that they don't actually have any of those people on staff.

--
Title: Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
Post by: Joel on July 02, 2010, 08:34:33 PM
Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 02, 2010, 08:35:44 PM
Quote
Ellisís Rational Emotive Therapy, Glasserís Reality Therapy, Thinking Error Treatment Work of Samenow and Yochelson, William R. Miller and Stephen Rollnickís Motivational Interviewing (MI) approach

Ursus, give us some 411 on this shit.

Thinking Error Treatment

Thinking Error Treatment

Oh yeah. It's bad.

Quote
there are highly qualified, professional transport/intervention services that our Admissions Staff may recommend based on longstanding relationships.

Which means that they're going to send thugs to your house.

Quote
We support parents through weekly assisted Conference Calls with the child and Case Manager

Which means that if somehow you end up in that place, you are not going to be able to talk to your parents.

Quote
Academy at Sisters belongs to numerous regional and national alliances such as the National Association of Therapeutic Schools and Programs (NATSAP)

NATSAP! I fucking knew it! NATSAP is nasty business. Loads, and loads, and loads, of NATSAP programs have been shut down for abuse. In the immortal words of Congressman George Miller, "What the hell do you people do?" (Yes, that was directed at NATSAP itself.) It's the Seal of Guaranteed Abuse.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 02, 2010, 08:39:24 PM
Oh, and if you're wondering *why* Congressman Miller would say that to that organization, here's the relevant Government Accountability Office information on the subject.

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d08146t.pdf (http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d08146t.pdf)
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Ursus on July 02, 2010, 08:42:07 PM
Quote from: "MorganMDC"
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
How old are you, Morgan?  Did your mom get roped in by an Educational Consultant?  Or did she get a referral from some other program parent?  How did she come to pick this place?  Where are you located?

You will get a lot of advice here, but DO NOT follow any advice that directs you to commit criminal acts, as this will only steel your mother's resolve to send you away and get you involved with Johny Law.  I DO NOT advise this course of action.  A few of us have your mother's contact information and will try to reason with her on your behalf.  Unfortunately, there isn't much else we can do from here.

Please answer the above questions and contact Mr. Elberg ASAP.
I am fifteen years old. She was roped in by both. She picked it, because it is the only option. Oregon. Beaverton, Oregon.
Her e-mail is of course the best way to reason with her, not only due to phone issues, but because direct abuse after hang up is not pleasent.
Might that EdCon be Dore Frances? She is designated as the "Mayor of Bend" on Merchant Circle (most number of connections):

(http://http://media.merchantcircle.com/19473944/Dore%200809%204_thumb.jpeg)
Horizon Family Solutions, LLC (http://http://www.merchantcircle.com/business/Horizon.Family.Solutions.LLC.541-312-4422)
1145 NW Knoxville Blvd
Bend, OR 97701
541-312-4422[/list]
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 02, 2010, 08:43:20 PM
We have a topic on her. viewtopic.php?f=40&t=13818 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=13818)
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: MorganMDC on July 02, 2010, 08:44:54 PM
Wow. Look at all I have to look forward to.
Apparently there is a "crisis move in situation" so I have until Friday.
Ursus, I am not sure.
All I know is of a  "Chealsea". The name sounds familiar, she possibly mentioned it in passing.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 02, 2010, 08:48:20 PM
Quote from: "MorganMDC"
I have until Friday.

Today is Friday.

Assuming they aren't going to send thugs to your house to kidnap you *tonight*, you still have until Monday for the "tour". And if that's not going to happen then they WILL send thugs to your house on Friday unless mom or dad wises up right fucking now. Bank on it!

Your dad doesn't want you talking to him? Then silently poke him on the shoulder and point him at this screen.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Ursus on July 02, 2010, 08:57:22 PM
Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
Quote
Academy at Sisters belongs to numerous regional and national alliances such as the National Association of Therapeutic Schools and Programs (NATSAP)
NATSAP! I fucking knew it! NATSAP is nasty business. Loads, and loads, and loads, of NATSAP programs have been shut down for abuse. In the immortal words of Congressman George Miller, "What the hell do you people do?" (Yes, that was directed at NATSAP itself.) It's the Seal of Guaranteed Abuse.
NATSAP... and a Woodbury Reports "Excellence in Education Award" for 2008/2009... and they're one of the select few programs participating in CEDU's Friends of Families with Children in Crisis Foundation (http://http://www.friendsoffamilies.org). See previous post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30744&start=30#p368404).

Bears repeating:
Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
Oh, and if you're wondering *why* Congressman Miller would say that to that organization, here's the relevant Government Accountability Office information on the subject.

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d08146t.pdf (http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d08146t.pdf)
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: MorganMDC on July 02, 2010, 09:01:48 PM
Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
Quote from: "MorganMDC"
I have until Friday.

Today is Friday.

Assuming they aren't going to send thugs to your house to kidnap you *tonight*, you still have until Monday for the "tour". And if that's not going to happen then they WILL send thugs to your house on Friday unless mom or dad wises up right fucking now. Bank on it!

Your dad doesn't want you talking to him? Then silently poke him on the shoulder and point him at this screen.
Friday, As in, the 9th.
It's a lost cause for him, I can guarantee it. I sent him the link, he hasn't read it.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 02, 2010, 09:07:20 PM
Quote from: "MorganMDC"
It's a lost cause for him, I can guarantee it.

It's never a lost fucking cause, Morgan. Get that out of your head. You already said he isn't keen on this. He has lots and lots of reasons NOT to be keen on it.

Quote
I sent him the link, he hasn't read it.

Then print it out and hand it to him.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: MorganMDC on July 02, 2010, 09:10:02 PM
Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
Quote from: "MorganMDC"
It's a lost cause for him, I can guarantee it.

It's never a lost fucking cause, Morgan. Get that out of your head. You already said he isn't keen on this. He has lots and lots of reasons NOT to be keen on it.

Quote
I sent him the link, he hasn't read it.

Then print it out and hand it to him.
Will try it.
Title: Glasser's Reality Therapy
Post by: Ursus on July 02, 2010, 09:23:51 PM
Quote
Ellis's Rational Emotive Therapy, Glasser's Reality Therapy, Thinking Error Treatment Work of Samenow and Yochelson, William R. Miller and Stephen Rollnick's Motivational Interviewing (MI) approach
Right off the top of my head, I might point out that Glasser's Reality Therapy is one of the "psychological developments" that Miller Newton and George Ross used to work up the methodology used at Straight, Inc... It, along with Lloyd McCorkle's Guided Group Interaction (now known as Positive Peer Culture), was among the methodologies used to turn Florida's programs away from the brutal physical coercion practiced in places like Marianna, towards the ultimately equally abusive psychological coercions used as a means of the behavior modification of adolescents.

I've seen Glasser's name in association with so many abusive programs now that I basically see it as yet another red flag, in and of itself. Reality Therapy is mentioned a number of times on fornits; do a search...

I'll research the others a little later tonight, when I have some more time.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 02, 2010, 09:25:54 PM
Daniel, I'm sure you're reading this right now, aren't you?

This isn't some insane "bash" site. This is not a joke. You are going to send your daughter away to be seriously hurt. If you don't want the details, then God have mercy on you for completely ignoring information that could save her life. If you do want the details, then register an account and start asking for them. We're here. You can talk to us.

Quote from: "Ursus"
when I have some more time.

I'm not entirely sure she has any time at all.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Whooter on July 02, 2010, 09:38:24 PM
Some more centered thoughts:

Its been open since 1994 and no one here on fornits has heard of any problems or complaints.  This indicates that it is probably a good program.  If any kids had ever been hurt there it would have been listed here on fornits.  Their staff is clinical and professional.  The school is accredited with several different approaches to learning which will allow each child to find his/her strength.
I donít see how anyone can state this place is abusive or would hurt anyone.  It will get her off the streets and prepare her for the next step which is a school in the UK of her choice?  (Is that correct?)

So the upside seems to outweigh the downside at this point until we get more information on the place.  Morgan I wouldnít be too stressed out.  It seems like a big step now but it may be a good fit for you.  Donít let everyone here scare you too much.



...
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 02, 2010, 09:40:41 PM
Previous poster can be summarized with this screenshot.

He does damage control for the industry on a regular basis. He's been debunked more times than it's worth counting. And here he is to derail the thread. We really don't know who he is, but the best guess is that he's somebody who let his OWN kid die in a program and is now spending the rest of his life trying to justify it.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Whooter on July 02, 2010, 09:49:15 PM
Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
Previous poster can be summarized with this screenshot.

He does damage control for the industry on a regular basis. He's been debunked more times than it's worth counting. And here he is to derail the thread. We really don't know who he is, but the best guess is that he's somebody who let his OWN kid die in a program and is now spending the rest of his life trying to justify it.

Look at your sickness in your footer notes, Pile, and your user name.  Do you think anyone is going to take you seriously and not think you are some kind of a nut.  I am a father and if I came onto fornits for info and saw your homage to death your credibility would be right up there with the guy walking around NYC carrying the "The world is ending" sign.  If you want to communicate with other nuts, you are right on target.  But parents are looking for some balanced discussion and information not your personal vendetta.

Try to keep it civil and on topic please.



...
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: MorganMDC on July 02, 2010, 10:01:07 PM
Well, After having a nice long discussion with my mother, It seems this is going no where.
I asked her about if the program allowed me to contact family, friends, and listen to music, and have basic privileges, and she said, "Well, I asked, but the woman would not tell me. It looks as though that would be a no, because that's not what this is about. It's about staying in touch with the program, not the distractions, and not allowing yourself to be in contact with who you were before.". When I asked her if she had heard any of the negatives or positives to this program, she hadn't even researched it. "Why would these people lie to me?" exact quotes from mother, of course, "Once the kid writes back and tells her parents what's happening, the kid wouldn't stay in the program, right? If you told me what was going on when it was, I wouldn't keep you in the program."
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Whooter on July 02, 2010, 10:09:03 PM
Some information which may help:

They have a very strong and professional treatment team that seems geared towards developing each childs individual strengths as well as their personal needs.  There are plenty of people to look out for the children as well as independent licensed Clinical Psychologists.


The Academy at Sisters Treatment Team consists of Case Managers, Clinical Director/Licensed Clinical Psychologist, Teacher(s), Academic Director, Operations Director and Executive Director.  To take advantage of the unified team talent and to ensure consistency throughout the process, the Treatment Team meets weekly to discuss the individual needs of each girl and the overall group dynamics, as well as make important treatment decisions as a Team.

Upon admission, each student is assigned a personal Case Manager. The Case Managerís responsibility is to make sure that all components of treatment (therapeutic, academic, familial, community, safety, and self) are being utilized effectively. They provide weekly one-to-one sessions for each student on their caseload, participate in various on and off-campus activities, carry out weekly family conferences, facilitate weekly groups, and continually evaluate all facets of the girlsí individual treatment plans with the oversight of Dr. Julie Schneider, Licensed Clinical Psychologist. This ensures that the individualís program is addressing her most immediate needs and reinforcing positive changes.

The Academy has built a strong Clinical Support Team within the community utilizing the services of a local Board Certified Child and Adolescent Psychiatrist for medication management; a Behavioral Consultant; and Licensed Therapists for additional support as needed.



...
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 02, 2010, 10:09:42 PM
Quote from: "MorganMDC"
and not allowing yourself to be in contact with who you were before

In other words, your mother quite literally hates who you are.

Did you know this, Daniel?
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 02, 2010, 10:10:51 PM
Whooter keeps on talking, I'm going to keep on posting this screenshot.

And of course the bulk of the psychological professionals they listed *don't actually work at the facility*, as I mentioned earlier.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: MorganMDC on July 02, 2010, 10:13:10 PM
Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
Quote from: "MorganMDC"
and not allowing yourself to be in contact with who you were before

In other words, your mother quite literally hates who you are.

Did you know this, Daniel?

That also came from the fucking academy in an e-mail to me, how peachy.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Whooter on July 02, 2010, 10:16:33 PM
Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
Quote from: "MorganMDC"
and not allowing yourself to be in contact with who you were before

In other words, your mother quite literally hates who you are.

Did you know this, Daniel?

Pile, I wouldn't try to splinter the family any more than they are right now.  Turning everyone against each other never does any good.  The communication that Morgan has with her mother and father should be held open as much as possible.


...
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Whooter on July 02, 2010, 10:23:23 PM
Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
Whooter keeps on talking, I'm going to keep on posting this screenshot.

And of course the bulk of the psychological professionals they listed *don't actually work at the facility*, as I mentioned earlier.

The screen shot is a great argument, Pile.  I dont mind discussing it with you.  You obviously feel people can become gay by hanging out with gay people or pedophiles by hanging out with pedophiles.  I think you are grossly misinformed about the facts and open discussions scare you.  This is obvious by your feeling threatened when people speak openly and discuss facts and differing points of view.

I am sorry you feel this way, but I dont think this is the thread to be discussing it.  We should try to stay on the topic of "Academy at Sisters".



...
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Whooter on July 02, 2010, 10:44:56 PM
Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
And of course the bulk of the psychological professionals they listed *don't actually work at the facility*, as I mentioned earlier.

This is a good point, Pile.  Many people have argued, quite extensively here on fornits, that some programs were secretive and isolated themselves from the surrounding community thereby creating a culture where abuse could flourish and or kids could not make contact with the outside world.  As Pile has indicated a percentage of the professional staff come in from the surrounding community from their private practices which gives these professionals a daily look at the program, speak with the girls one-on-one and alleviates this concern that the program is too isolated.

When my daughter attended a therapeutic boarding school I felt a little at ease knowing she was seeing an independent therapist who was not paid by the school and who spoke directly to my daughterís therapist at home.



...
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Vic Zealot on July 03, 2010, 12:42:25 AM
Whooter, I really hate to get all serious business in my first post, but it seems that you're in this topic to make a scene, and after having done some research it seems this is how you roll (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=23299&p=283976&hilit=+fiduciary#p283976), so I guess  :feedtrolls:

Living a few thousand miles away from OP, I can do nothing to help. On one hand I want to say "run away", but I know that if OP's father looks at this thread it will lose any credibility it may have had with any more of that in it.

What I think it's important to know is that this place itself is only a small part of a massive web of bullshit. The accreditation, the testimonials, the everything can be (and probably is) either gross fabrication or heavily "re-interpreted". Evil hides behind stock photos of smiling people and all-white backgrounds more often than drawings of pentagrams and all-black backgrounds.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: MorganMDC on July 03, 2010, 01:02:45 AM
Quote from: "Vic Zealot"
Whooter, I really hate to get all serious business in my first post, but it seems that you're in this topic to make a scene, and after having done some research it seems this is how you roll (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=23299&p=283976&hilit=+fiduciary#p283976), so I guess  :feedtrolls:

Living a few thousand miles away from OP, I can do nothing to help. On one hand I want to say "run away", but I know that if OP's father looks at this thread it will lose any credibility it may have had with any more of that in it.

What I think it's important to know is that this place itself is only a small part of a massive web of bullshit. The accreditation, the testimonials, the everything can be (and probably is) either gross fabrication or heavily "re-interpreted". Evil hides behind stock photos of smiling people and all-white backgrounds more often than drawings of pentagrams and all-black backgrounds.
It's lovely that this is the only site that has any speaking of this academy.
Where else is one to look?
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Paul St. John on July 03, 2010, 01:53:21 AM
Quote from: "Whooter"
Some information which may help:

They have a very strong and professional treatment team that seems geared towards developing each childs individual strengths as well as their personal needs.  There are plenty of people to look out for the children as well as independent licensed Clinical Psychologists.


The Academy at Sisters Treatment Team consists of Case Managers, Clinical Director/Licensed Clinical Psychologist, Teacher(s), Academic Director, Operations Director and Executive Director.  To take advantage of the unified team talent and to ensure consistency throughout the process, the Treatment Team meets weekly to discuss the individual needs of each girl and the overall group dynamics, as well as make important treatment decisions as a Team.

Upon admission, each student is assigned a personal Case Manager. The Case Managerís responsibility is to make sure that all components of treatment (therapeutic, academic, familial, community, safety, and self) are being utilized effectively. They provide weekly one-to-one sessions for each student on their caseload, participate in various on and off-campus activities, carry out weekly family conferences, facilitate weekly groups, and continually evaluate all facets of the girlsí individual treatment plans with the oversight of Dr. Julie Schneider, Licensed Clinical Psychologist. This ensures that the individualís program is addressing her most immediate needs and reinforcing positive changes.

The Academy has built a strong Clinical Support Team within the community utilizing the services of a local Board Certified Child and Adolescent Psychiatrist for medication management; a Behavioral Consultant; and Licensed Therapists for additional support as needed.



...


All a bunch of bullshit.

Whooter, it is easy for you to tell the girl not to be scared.  You are not the one going.  You are not a 15 year old girl, being forced into this shit.  You are very cozy behind your PC, spreading your heartless propaganda- just another day.

Paul
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Ursus on July 03, 2010, 02:00:03 AM
Quote from: "Vic Zealot"
What I think it's important to know is that this place itself is only a small part of a massive web of bullshit. The accreditation, the testimonials, the everything can be (and probably is) either gross fabrication or heavily "re-interpreted". Evil hides behind stock photos of smiling people and all-white backgrounds more often than drawings of pentagrams and all-black backgrounds.
Yup. And this industry has been nurtured and bred in a society that's been fed a steady diet ó via the media, the foci of the "experts," governmental mandates, advertising, etc. ó that pathologizes any but the most conformist of adolescences. Small wonder then, that parents believe there's "something wrong that can be fixed" with their kid, when they get that message coming from all directions.

At this point in time, this cultural mindset seems to be unique to the U.S. You hear from posters in other countries that this kind of stuff just isn't going on there, certainly not to the pervasive degree that it is here.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Paul St. John on July 03, 2010, 02:09:32 AM
Quote from: "MorganMDC"
Well, After having a nice long discussion with my mother, It seems this is going no where.
I asked her about if the program allowed me to contact family, friends, and listen to music, and have basic privileges, and she said, "Well, I asked, but the woman would not tell me. It looks as though that would be a no, because that's not what this is about. It's about staying in touch with the program, not the distractions, and not allowing yourself to be in contact with who you were before.". When I asked her if she had heard any of the negatives or positives to this program, she hadn't even researched it.


Well, the negative is underlined above.. a negative which to me, nullifies any positives.


 "Why would these people lie to me?" exact quotes from mother, of course, "Once the kid writes back and tells her parents what's happening, the kid wouldn't stay in the program, right? If you told me what was going on when it was, I wouldn't keep you in the program."


Even if you reported the bad things.. None of them sound that bad in and of themselves.  Everything changes once you give up your control.  It all becomes for therapeutic reasons.  There is an excuse for everything, and they are excellent salesman.

Unfortunately, I don t have a solution for you.  It is difficult for me to tell a 15 year old to embrace a life on the streets. That could certainly end up being worse for you.

Is there no one in your family who really loves you.. will fight for you?

You can t be afraid to take advantage of all resources you have here.  Your mother told you flat out, that the intention of this place is to rid you of your identity.  It is your identity that is on the line.  What are you willing to do for it?  This is a fight you are going to have to win. And with the best results possible.

After that, just get to 18..lol.. You re mother sounds a bit broken.  You need to get out on your own.  One way or another, you have rough shit ahead, and only you can make good of it, with strength and persistence.  I wish you the best.

Be strong.  Stay Focussed.


Paul St. John

Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Nihilanthic on July 03, 2010, 02:28:09 AM
Megan, I suggest you ask your father what exactly they're trying to cure, and how this is going to do that. Seems extremely unmedical and unscientific given that there is no real diagnosis or prescribed treatment. Bad grades are best fixed with a tutor.

Or, for that matter, why they can condone holding you in conditions which wouldn't be considered acceptable for a convicted murder or a terrorist. They have access to lawyers - why can't programs allow children access to lawyers and legal advocates? Seems a bit fishy that you're disallowed a civil right given to terrorists.

Censored email is also hardly a lifeline to the outside - even if you could get a message out, it would hardly be a speedy rescue. I can't believe he'd think you could freely write mail considering they only allow calls with someone on their payroll with a thumb over the button.

What I'd also like to know is how an educated programmer would allow himself to cherry pick what information he exposes himself to. Seems to go against the spirit of the job he does. Why not know the truth, is it really better to just pretend you're right?  :lala:

There is a huge weight of information about what these places do and how they do it. There's absolutely no information supporting their claims of efficacy whatsoever. The GAO has reported to congress -twice- about this; the videos can be found on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr47O5OjC_A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr47O5OjC_A) Why not check out the whole playlist?

I don't see how any educated, intelligent man - or a father- could possibly send a child off to a place without looking over the data about these places and seriously considering why they go so far to cut off contact between the child and their own family, and instead feed them their own well scripted lines.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: juliechan on July 03, 2010, 03:21:18 AM
Morgan direct your dad to this list of warning signs for abusive programs:
http://www.heal-online.org/warn.htm (http://www.heal-online.org/warn.htm)

It will be much more effective than emotional forums banter.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: juliechan on July 03, 2010, 03:33:39 AM
Ask your dad to contact the program and press them for answers about outside contact, program details, etc. If they cannot come up with a clear answer or block requests they are definitely shady.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: juliechan on July 03, 2010, 03:54:21 AM
He may also want to view this: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consume ... /pro27.pdf (http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/products/pro27.pdf)
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Whooter on July 03, 2010, 09:33:22 AM
The main thing the program can provide is distance from the environment that is making a child at-risk.  The program does not know the cause.  From their standpoint it could be uncle Marvin who molested the child when she was young, or a school teacher who is abusing her.  Could be a friend of the family or a neighbor.  Could be a parent or a drug dealer.  So I think we can all agree that it makes sense to eliminate contact remove the cell phone until the child has a chance to talk to her therapist and determine who is safe for her to have contact with.

The strength of programs in general is providing a safe and structured environment for the child to heal and grow in.  Over time my daughter was able to communicate with friends and family, but it takes time.  

I agree that if the parents have questions about Academy at Sisters they should call them.  Another suggestion is to ask to speak with other parents who have had children graduate the program so that they can ask them questions they donít feel comfortable asking Academy at sisters.

On another note I think it is irresponsible for people to suggest living on the streets is a safe alternative for a 15 year old girl.  You dont realize it but you have become blinded by your own quest to discredit all programs.  You should try step back a little and see what is best for the child and not try to frighten her to the point she runs and puts herself at risk of getting hurt or worse.



...
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Whooter on July 03, 2010, 09:56:25 AM
Quote from: "juliechan"
He may also want to view this: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consume ... /pro27.pdf (http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/products/pro27.pdf)

Great link Julie, thanks.  I condensed the questions parents should ask below:


1.   Are you licensed by the state?

2.   Do you provide an academic curriculum? If so, is it available to all program participants? Do you have teachers who are certified or licensed by your state?

3.   What about accreditation?

4.   Do you have a clinical director? What are his/her credentials?

5.   What are the credentials of the staff, especially the counselors and therapists, who will be working with my child?

6.   How experienced is your staff? Have they worked at other residential treatment programs? If yes, where and for how long?

7.   Do you conduct background checks on your employees?

8.   What are the criteria for admission ? Do you conduct pre-admission assessments? Are they in person, by phone, or over the Internet? Who conducts them?

9.   Will you provide an individualized program with a detailed explanation of the therapies, interventions, and supports that will address my childís needs? When is this done? How often will my child be reassessed?

10.   How do you handle medical issues like illness or injury? Is there a nurse or doctor on staff? On the premises? Will you contact me? Will Ibe notified or consulted if thereís a change in treatment or medication?

11.   How do you define success? What is your success rate? How is it measured?

12.   How do you discipline program participants?

13.   Can I contact/speak with my child when I want? Can my child contact me when he wants?

14.   What are the costs? What do they cover? What is your refund policy if the program doesnít work out?

15.   Do you have relationships with companies and individuals that provide educational and referral services?

-- The Government Accountability Officeís (GAO) http://www.gao.gov (http://www.gao.gov)



...
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Vic Zealot on July 03, 2010, 10:18:07 AM
Quote from: "Ursus"
Quote from: "Vic Zealot"
What I think it's important to know is that this place itself is only a small part of a massive web of bullshit. The accreditation, the testimonials, the everything can be (and probably is) either gross fabrication or heavily "re-interpreted". Evil hides behind stock photos of smiling people and all-white backgrounds more often than drawings of pentagrams and all-black backgrounds.
Yup. And this industry has been nurtured and bred in a society that's been fed a steady diet ó via the media, the foci of the "experts," governmental mandates, advertising, etc. ó that pathologizes any but the most conformist of adolescences. Small wonder then, that parents believe there's "something wrong that can be fixed" with their kid, when they get that message coming from all directions.

At this point in time, this cultural mindset seems to be unique to the U.S. You hear from posters in other countries that this kind of stuff just isn't going on there, certainly not to the pervasive degree that it is here.

Besides the societal impetus necessary for this crap to go on - whose existence I think ought to be self-evident, but would nonetheless sound wacky to someone just hearing it for the first time - there's, on a smaller scale, the B.S. going on in the individual "schools" and in the organizations that support them. Essentially, the nationwide associations giving awards and credibility to these places are about as impartial as the tobacco advocacy groups who told people smoking didn't lead to cancer. Nothing but papier-mache props that they are really hoping nobody looks at closely enough to tell what they are. Instead they see the individual abuses that happen and attack leaves, while ignoring the big nasty gnarled tree that allows those leaves to grow.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 03, 2010, 11:01:16 AM
Quote from: "Vic Zealot"
Instead they see the individual abuses that happen and attack leaves, while ignoring the big nasty gnarled tree that allows those leaves to grow.

Reminds me a whole lot of the whole "well we didn't see anything wrong with THIS program" business. This is completely insane. It's a whole lot like "well THIS wild tiger didn't eat anybody, so we should assume it's safe to be around". Um, what? Whatever happened to pattern recognition? Charles Darwin's ghost must have a raging hard-on by now.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Troll Control on July 03, 2010, 01:09:59 PM
Quote from: "Ursus"
Parent organization of Academy at Sisters is J Bar J Youth Services (http://http://www.jbarj.org/). They run four programs; the more coercive ones are first and last:

  • Academy at Sisters (http://http://www.academyatsisters.org/)
      provides a personalized emotional growth treatment program for troubled female adolescents.
  • Big Brothers Big Sisters of Central Oregon (http://http://www.bbbsco.org/)
      empowering youth through one-to-one mentorships.
  • Cascade Youth & Family Center (http://http://www.jbarj.org/CYFC/cyfc.html)
      offering outpatient crisis intervention and support services for troubled youth and their families.
  • J Bar J Boys Ranch (http://http://www.jbarj.org/Boys/boys.html)
      serving adjudicated adolescent males in a structured residential program.

Let me just make an unequivocal, blanket statement here:  Any "program" or "academy" that purports to offer "emotional growth treatment" is, on it's face, bogus.

This quite obviously a duck farm packed full to the gills with quacks.

It is precdisely these self-proclaimed EG programs that end up killing/maiming/abusing the most kids.  Another NATSAP program, Mount Bachelor Academy, an Aspen Education kiddie prison, was forcibly shut down via license revocation by the State of Oregon after investigators concluded that 100% of the kids there were abused simply because the EG program itself is, by definition, abusive.  100% of the kids were abused.  One was raped and MBA didn't even report it, which is a serious crime.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: DannyB II on July 03, 2010, 01:51:21 PM
Not that you folks needed to hear this, I just wanted to say thanks...... DJ, Pile, Ursus, Paul, Nihilanthic, Morgan and juliechan for helping this young girl. I was taught something today.
I have a story I want to share with you folks. I am in NYC now for the holiday, at 6:30am I got a phone call from a friend in Georgia, she told me that a young man that I have known since he was 7 (10 yrs. ago) had OD last night and died. This coming off his mother dying 3 months ago from the same thing. Mother overdosed on alcohol a Valium and the son heroin. I asked where his father was, my friend starting sobbing, she said,"he is in Florida lying on a beach with his new girlfriend".
I wanted to share this because this is what we are up against with a large percentage of parents, they don't give a fuck one way or another, either they don't care to get the right help for their child in need or if they do find something (anything) it is just to get the problem out of their hair.
I will not belabor on with this story, it just makes me sick.
I know some of you think I want to promote programs, I am really not interested in that one way or another. I am more interested in helping Megan stay alive long enough to reach "18"yrs so that she can get away from the parents trying to kill her with their irresponsible actions.
I do not have the right now, to post this young mans name he is/was 17yrs. old. May his father rot in hell.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Troll Control on July 03, 2010, 02:05:09 PM
Sorry to hear this sad story, Danny.  I hope those surviving this boy and his mother get through the nightmare.

And it is true that these kids need an advocate for the reasons you stated.  Someone has to stand up for them lest they be fed, without resistance, into The Machine.  If anyone thinks their chances of avoiding abuse is bad on the streets, it's near nil at these kiddie jails.

Not germane to your point at all...but Morgan is the kid we're working for.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: DannyB II on July 03, 2010, 02:18:48 PM
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Sorry to hear this sad story, Danny.  I hope those surviving this boy and his mother get through the nightmare.

And it is true that these kids need an advocate for the reasons you stated.  Someone has to stand up for them lest they be fed, without resistance, into The Machine.  If anyone thinks their chances of avoiding abuse is bad on the streets, it's near nil at these kiddie jails.

Not germane to your point at all...but Morgan is the kid we're working for.

No it may not be directly germane (my story) but it comes close enough. I can only hope Megan's father listens to the feedback so he makes a responsible decision for his daughter. That he reads and asks the tuff questions and demands answers before he lets his child be taken away.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Troll Control on July 03, 2010, 02:24:20 PM
I wasn't saying your post was not germane, Danny.  It was, insofar as the parents are usually the cause of the kid's problems and not the solution to them.  

I was saying the last line of my post was not germane to the content of your post but only pointing out the girl being threatened with being sent to this duckfarm goes by the name Morgan, not Megan.  No worries, just a minor clarification.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: DannyB II on July 03, 2010, 02:33:08 PM
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
I wasn't saying your post was not germane, Danny.  It was, insofar as the parents are usually the cause of the kid's problems and not the solution to them.  

I was saying the last line of my post was not germane to the content of your post but only pointing out the girl being threatened with being sent to this duckfarm goes by the name Morgan, not Megan.  No worries, just a minor clarification.

Sorry Morgan, I got'cha DJ. I'm just missing everything right now. This post and what happened last night has got my head/heart twisted around. I'm signing off.
Morgan, I'll be praying for ya, girl.
Title: Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
Post by: Joel on July 03, 2010, 02:42:21 PM
Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Troll Control on July 03, 2010, 03:04:59 PM
I agree that individual and family counseling at home sounds like just the right approach for this family, Joel.  This is common sense advice from a man who has a lot of experience in this area.

Putting Morgan into an EG kiddie jail will only make things worse, not better.  There's no way to help a family by isolating a minor child from it.  It makes no sense whatsoever.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Morgan's mom on July 03, 2010, 03:36:15 PM
Wow!  So much to read here....

There are always 2 sides to every story and so much to reply to here and discuss...But, as we need to get on with our day as the local farmer's market closes soon, i will simply say this...

If Morgan would agree to actively participate in family counseling (as we have tried several times in the past), don't you think we would do that before looking at other options of sending our daughter away from us?...WE LOVE HER WITH ALL OUR HEARTS!!!

And, as for the tour...Morgan isn't even required to join us.  We told her that!  So as for this "dropping her off" theory - Sorry, wrong!!  We are still checking things out.  

There are always good and bad situations to everything in life.  I'm not that BLIND as to not be aware of the history with some of the programs out there.  My husband and I both had the delightful pleasure of experiencing the possibility of being sent to a program in our youth.  We, too, went through many of the things my daughter is going through now.  We also know the path she is on and where it has the potential to go.  We are fortunate to be here today to tell about it.  I guess
God had future plans for us - there are many scenarios we got ourselves into that could have ended our lives along time ago.

This is not about changing WHO our daughter is!  She is a great individual with great potential...she is in a pattern of bad choices.  And, I will state it clearly here - it is not all her fault.  No parent is perfect and not every parent has the tools to
help in all situations with all issues.

I have to give her credit for the smart kid that she is to do as she always does and research the situation for herself.  We have complete communication with her as far as looking at things from all angles!  Remember, you are reading posts from a 15 year old who is scared, I'm sure, but also is notorious for making up stories and lieing.  If we could figure out how to get this situation corrected, we wouldn't be in this predicament.  Try to imagine ALL trust being gone.  I know she does not mean to make some of the mistakes that she does, but it is jeopardizing her safety and success in life....
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Morgans Dad on July 03, 2010, 04:00:46 PM
Joel, I Would LOVE to consider and alternative plan.  However, attitude towards counseling from her side has flat out been declined.  She believes it's a useless waste. Being a loving parent, I have her future in my foremost thoughts.  I want to see her start to care. To start to make good choices. Stop the unnecessary lying. I'm not going to say I've been a saint but let us just say if there was any sign of responsiveness to alternatives we'd not be considering this course of action. If doing counseling and keeping her at home with us seemed to be a real option we'd go for it I'm sure. From MY extensive research on this particular facility I find that after 16 years of operation under the same name and no scathing data found by parents or participants to actually be a good sign. Granted there's no real GOOD data either. I appreciate all of the input and have found a lot of other good discussions on this site. The main point here is SOMETHING needs to change.  The approaches we've tried thus far have failed to take root. It takes 2 to tango. We are ultra serious about what our expectations have been and how if she wont participate we'll make the choices for her.  Again, good things to ask when we 'tour' (and no plans to just dump her at that time). We're pretty open with Morgan in all things involving family matters. I can't imagine how she would feel if we just told her we were going for a tour and dumped her and ran away.  That would SURELY be abuse IMO. Please, provide more input to ALL sides here.  Maybe she'll take some outside advice and show us some real desire to respect authority and make effort in her academics. I want her to be happy in whatever she chooses to dobe.  If that's being a piercing tattoo artist, fine by me. I just want her honest, trustworthy and educated.  She wont get far in the UK without a good education. There's  Lots of things about the UK she's not aware of from a governmental perspective yet. Would love to have enough trust to let her have a summer alone there when she gets a bit older. :soapbox:
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Troll Control on July 03, 2010, 04:08:29 PM
Can you emlighten us as to how her safety and future are jeopardized?  

I can't imagine that it would rise to the level of institutionalizing her, which is what you're contemplating.  It is institutionalization and should only be used when she has either tried to kill/harm herself or someone else.  It's very serious business and should be reserved for only the most serious, life-threatening cases.

Take a look at the links in my signature that point to the reasoning of an Aspen (a NATSAP member, BTW, as is Sisters) marketer who frequents this site.  He comes right out and says it: The parent is the customer, the child is the product.  That is the disgusting objectification of children that these programs not-so-openly espouse.  I see a family wrestling with serious familial issues.  They see dollar signs.  You have to open your eyes to this indelible reality.

Why don't we see if we can get a commitment right now out of you and Morgan and make a contract between you that you will seek family and individual counseling at home?  I think you scared the bejeezus out of her already.  She's probably more open now that she sees the very real possibility of being institutionalized for an indefinite period (i.e.,as long as you can pay the bill they will try to keep her or until she turns 18, whichever comes first).  

Many of us have intimate knowledge of how these places operate and you'd do yourself a favor to get answers to the questions we've asked of Sisters.  Two of the programs in Oregon pushed by the Aspen (NATSAP) marketer mentioned earlier were shuttered by the state; one for murdering a child (Sheriff's words, not mine) and one for abusing 100% of the kids in their care (state regulator's words, not mine) and failing to report a forcible rape on their premises.  These two programs, by the way, were considered by industry people to be two of the "safer," "better" programs out there.

You have no way to know what goes on behind closed doors in these institutions, sir and madam.  Remember, care should be delivered in the least restrictive setting possible and should first, do no harm.  

Thank you for coming here to talk with us.  It is greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Whooter on July 03, 2010, 04:15:52 PM
My daughter was struggling with similar issues (at 15 years old), although she agreed to counseling prior to being placed onto a program, so we did work on local options first, which seems to be what you are trying.  I would strongly suggest that Morgan try this path prior to having control of her life handed off to others.  My daughter was very hesitant at first but slowly the high structure of the program and focus on academics took hold and she began to blossom and come into her own.  She gained confidence in her own abilities and matured beyond her years before she graduated and got back on track and finished highschool when she returned home.
Itís a hard decision to sent a child away and it is not for most families but the data suggests that the majority (some studies say 80%) of the kids do well and are helped by their time there and get back on track.

One thing you could ask the program is to speak to other families who were in similar situation and had a child graduate.  Maybe they have some kids who could speak to Morgan.  Just a thought.

Thanks for responding mom and dad and hang in there you are thinking of Morgan first and weighing all the options which is great.  I am sure you will be getting a lot of responses over the next few days.  I will chime in again with more thoughts I am sure.



...
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Academy at Sisters on July 03, 2010, 04:41:26 PM
Quote from: "MorganMDC"
Well, After having a nice long discussion with my mother, It seems this is going no where.
I asked her about if the program allowed me to contact family, friends, and listen to music, and have basic privileges, and she said, "Well, I asked, but the woman would not tell me. It looks as though that would be a no, because that's not what this is about. It's about staying in touch with the program, not the distractions, and not allowing yourself to be in contact with who you were before.". When I asked her if she had heard any of the negatives or positives to this program, she hadn't even researched it. "Why would these people lie to me?" exact quotes from mother, of course, "Once the kid writes back and tells her parents what's happening, the kid wouldn't stay in the program, right? If you told me what was going on when it was, I wouldn't keep you in the program."


Morgan, are you in the UK?
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 03, 2010, 04:52:01 PM
Whooter again, screenshot again. Pardon the spam. But this really is how he sees this. If you can't find the flaw in his reasoning then look closer. And remember, you're about to send your kid to people *just like him*.

Okay, if "Morgan's Mom" and "Morgan's Dad" are the actual parents, here, I can personally settle this really, REALLY fucking quick. Watch. Because, in case you missed the previous few pages of this thread, she IS listening to ME.

Morgan's Mom: If this is not about changing who she is, then you picked the TOTALLY wrong approach. And don't think for a minute that the things mentioned on Fornits won't happen to her.

Morgan's Dad: She's a 15 year old girl, right? They do that. They're like that. Now please get her on the computer.

Morgan: Listen very, *very* carefully here. You've been trusting me so far, trust me now. I'm not saying to trust your parents or to change what you believe. I'm saying to start being fucking nicer to them, pronto. No more lies, no more bullshit, anywhere, ever. Your parents are being overprotective and parents of 15-year-old girls are also simply like that. You're a teenager. As we've discovered in this thread you should likely be COUNTING YOUR FUCKING BLESSINGS that you have Internet access and parents smart enough to read Fornits before doing something incredibly stupid. I know. The public school system sucks. It's not that hard for someone of your intelligence, and it beats the ever-loving PANTS off the place your parents are trying to send you. And if your UK boyfriend can't wait until you're 18 then he's not really your boyfriend is he?

So there is NO reason whatsoever for your family to blow 1500 bucks a month on sending you to some shithole.

Morgan's Mom, Morgan's Dad, here's what I want you to do. Give your daughter a nice, big hug, and tell her truthfully that she is not going to end up in some hellhole under the "care" of some stranger. And Morgan? They're your parents. At least pretend to respect them until you're 18.

Got it? Are we settled, yet? Or is this going to get ugly and into territory nobody on Fornits (well, except maybe Whooter) wants to see you get to.
Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
Post by: Troll Control on July 03, 2010, 04:54:54 PM
As I stated earlier, you should not take advice from someone who has a financial stake in programs.  Again, see the link in my signature about"fiduciary interest in Aspen Education."  

You should also know the program where he claims to have sent his daughter, the supposed "flagship program" of Aspen Education, the Academy at Swift River, was cited by state regulators for using abusive techniques as well:

Quote from: "Ursus"
ASR was cited for several infractions, which included monitoring students' telephone calls and mail as well as "using behavior management techniques which subject students to verbal abuse, ridicule and humiliation, denial of sufficient sleep, and repetitive exercise as a response to an infraction of a rule."

From "Tough love may be a little too tough (http://http://cafety.org/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=279)" (by Stephanie Kraft; June 24, 2006; Valley Advocate):

    ...At other times, Kent saw students compelled to do degrading make-work as punishment. One time, he said, he saw a girl forced to spend an entire day scrubbing a staircase with a toothbrush. He was also alarmed by the few bits of information he heard about the so-called Life Step sessions, forms of group therapy in which several students would be taken to one of the buildings for day-and-a-half to three-day stays.

    "I was instructed repeatedly on paper to prepare very minimal meals for these overnights," Kent said. "I would put up carrot sticks, celery sticks, crackers, cheese, hummus, a few turkey sandwiches, and this plate would be sufficient for two mealtimes. Then I would send a very light breakfast. The staff would have bagels and cream cheese, the kids could only have fruit and cereal. I worried about the fact that the food for the staff was different, and I felt that these were very light meals."

    Kent worried about whether the food was being rationed on a punish-and-reward basis during the sessions. The question was one of many the Advocate was unable to discuss with ASR officials, who declined to be interviewed about the program.

    Kent had other concerns about the Life Step sessions. He did not witness them, but he heard that the students were kept up most of the night for "therapeutic" group conversations that were a more intense version of the communication sessions he had overheard.

    One of the students Kent remembers best was a boy with a talent for drawing, whom he got to know through the mask-making class. One day Kent came to work and the boy was gone. Other staff members said he had been taken from the school in the middle of the previous night and sent west for a wilderness trip. Three weeks later, Kent said, the boy was back, and looking depressed. Another staff member told Kent that when she greeted the student with "Hi, it's nice to have you back," he burst into tears.

    Other things worried Kent too. He noticed that the students were not allowed to make telephone calls, even calls to their parents, without a staff member listening, and that their incoming and outgoing mail was read. After he learned that a boy who had broken his collarbone had been forced to move heavy cans and jars and wipe down shelves in the kitchen as punishment for a trifling infraction just a week after being injured, Kent became so worried that he decided to contact the state Department of Social Services about the school's practices. DSS passed the information on to the state Office of Child Care Services, which sent an investigator, Eric Lieberman, to the academy.

    Academy administrators told Lieberman it was true that students were denied sleep for 19 or 20 hours during the first Life Step session, called "The Truth." Staff and students might stay up all night, then break for a nap between 5 and 7 a.m., then continue the session until 2 the next afternoon, the administrators said. One administrator also acknowledged using profanity toward the students during communications sessions, and added, "Some days I have said things to students that I wish I did not say."

    The Office of Child Care Services' investigators found that the school had not been remiss in getting medical treatment for the student with the broken collarbone, but it did substantiate most of Kent's other concerns. It cited the school for "using behavior management techniques which subject students to verbal abuse, ridicule and humiliation, denial of sufficient sleep, and repetitive exercise as a response to an infraction of a rule."

    OCCS also cited the school for monitoring students' telephone calls and mail. The agency said that the right to privacy in communications, even for juveniles, can be restricted only by court order -- for example, if a therapist believes that the teen's communication should be monitored, perhaps to support a young person through a crisis in relations with his or her family -- and then only temporarily...
    [/list]

    What is described above is typical for these places and you'd never know it without whistleblowers.  Believe me when I tell you, you will have no idea what is happening to Morgan behind closed doors, period.  And there will be no mechanism for her to report any abuse she might incur.  The kids are simply held incommunicado.
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Morgans Dad on July 03, 2010, 05:00:17 PM
    DJ, if she reads up and shows responsiveness to a well defined plan, then problem solved.  I truly don't WANT to 'Institutionalize' her just because.  We've tried a lot of different approaches. We WILL be calling the county sheriff and DA and see what else may be discovered.  That may all be moot if Morgan can 'come around' and make some effort at change around here. It's just that there's not many years left for advancement.  The Academy looks like a fast track to bridge some of the parenting gaps we've encounter over the years. Some posters on this site have had good outcomes from TBS.  Granted there's lots of  data on schoolsprograms that have not been stellar.  But as a parent I'm not finding anything wrong with the child is the product line of thinking.  The child IS the product.  The product of our parenting. The product of the public school system, the product of the influences of society at large, the media, their peers etc. The end product becomes the adults which go out into the world and have to become a part  of society at large.If one doesn't learn how to respond respectfully to authority (notice I did NOT say RESPECT AUTHORITY) there's going to be trouble somewhere. We don't ask for 'respect' at home, but we expect our interactions to be in a respectful tone. As parents we LOVE out daughter for who she is.  We love the parts of her being that are uniquely her and are not looking to change that.  The habits she is is building at school are not conducive to keeping a job and we all know that being disrespectful to a bass is a sure fired way to not have a job.  I look at this as a last choice for our situation.  Never was this option a first choice.  This has not been an easy decision, nor is it a final one at this point.
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Nihilanthic on July 03, 2010, 05:14:46 PM
    So, what you're saying is because her grades are bad she has to be locked away and have no freedom at all in an unscientific unproven way of 'helping' her?

    A few people say TBS helped them when the vast majority says they were abused, neglected, and not helped at all, so it's worth a shot for you - but she has no say in the matter?

    Because you have gaps in parenting you think a fly-by-night institution with no medical diagnosis, diagnostics, or proof of efficacy is the best way to fix her because why?

    Bad grades and disagreeing with you is called being a teenager. You say you had the possibility of going to a program, yet you turned out fine without. Why is she different?

    If you're convinced she will be a 'loser' on account of disagreeing with her parents or having mediocre grades, and the only way to fix that is alternative medicine, you've been sold a good line from an edcon. There is no problem except the crisis of conscience. Bad high school grades really don't mean a damn thing. I personally dropped out on account of high school being worthless and that I found out that it was; when I went to college as a mature adult I got a 3.75 GPA and I'm now a paid undergrad teaching assistant and paid tutor, with everything covered by grants. The point of this being that if someone convinced you high school is some kind of do-or-die-moment, or that 18 is, that's false. There is absolutely no emergency and certainly nothing worth locking someone up over.

    Nevertheless, programs don't fix anything and have never ever been able to prove they have. Ever. They play off of general, nebulous fears and then claim to fix general, nebulous things - and if the kid doesn't act perfect, they generally go very far out of their way to say the kid should be completely cut off from the parent until the kid turns around. Read up on exit plans sometime. Certainly not anything worth $5K a month and a daughter being held incommunicado indefinitely until eighteen, now is it?

    However, the real question is how much is it worth to ameliorate your well intended but misdirected sense of worry. If she's not committing crimes, and she just doesn't care about what you care about, is that worth losing 60,000 dollars and your relationship with your daughter? Is it worth what you'd be doing to her, when nobody seems to know what is wrong or what will happen? Sending someone to get reprogrammed because you think she's 'going to be a loser' is going beyond the pail to address your own worries about her not being perfect. She's a different individual from you and eventually you'll have to come to grips with that, be it now, at 18, or whenever else.

    This is a decision you will regret almost immediately, and when she's had to deal with months of abuse, bullshit and powerlessness, the only fault for her not having a thing to do with you would rest on your own shoulders. $5K/mo can do a lot, but it's your job to figure out what to do - not to let some people selling empty promises to allay fearful parents take it, and your child, and not even give her the right to speak to you or a lawyer without them cutting her off if she says what they don't want.

    You wouldn't give her a pill if there was no proof it worked, so why would you lock her up for years?
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Troll Control on July 03, 2010, 05:21:32 PM
    Dad, you're missing the point.  You mean "product" as in "sum total of her experiences," but Whooter stated clearly that the child is a commodity.  Big, big difference there.

    Anyway you can click here (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30195&p=361041&hilit=thewho+abuse+hotline#p361037) to see what these program pimps believe about child rights.  

    Again, he states clearly, the child has no rights in big, bold red typeface.  A "product" with "no rights"?  This sounds like a human slave trader, not a compassionate helper.

    You need to understand this thinking and that it is the dominant paradigm in these institutions, especially the ones under NATSAPs umbrella.  As Pile stated before, abuse is not likely, it's damn near guaranteed.  It's a dead reckoning from my experience that this program, approved by NATSAP, will run the same abusive behavior modifaction scheme that has shuttered so many NATSAP programs before it.  I also worked directly under the founding father of NATSAP, Len Buccellato, who provided the funding and the heft to get it off the ground.  He was sued out of business for fraud and abuse by a program called Hidden Lake Academy.  I know exactly of what I speak, I assure you.

    You can't "fast track" healthy relationships by splitting up your family and isolating Morgan.  On it's face, that's an illogical statement.  I also cannot conceive of institutionalizing a child for lying, which seems to be your chief complaint.  If all lying kids were institutionalized, none of us would be here today, right?  They're kids.  They lie.  It's part of growing up and she'll get over it.

    Anyway, it sounds like you are willing to work with Morgan if she will work with you and avoid this sordid industry altogether.  I'd like to see you work it out.
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Whooter on July 03, 2010, 05:24:02 PM
    Mom and Dad, Hang in there and keep reading, there is some good information if you look past some of the angered posts, most of them mean well.  Programs are not a good fit for everyone.  If there had been any problems with Academy at Sisters I am sure it would have made its way back here and we just cant seem to dig up any dirt at all on this place so far.  If we do it will be posted here for sure.

    Some more thoughts would be to get as much info as you can.  Donít just use fornits as your sole source because it is highly biased.

    Seek the opinion of a local therapist, school counselor, speak with other parents who have had children in programs (as I suggested earlier).  You should tour the facility and speak to some of the girls who are there presently and get a sense for how they like it.  They will probably only expose you to those girls who have been there for awhile and are on a healthy track, but you will still be able to get a sense whether or not the school is a good fit for your daughter.  I was able to pull a few students aside during lunch with them and ask them questions.

    Ask if they provide therapy from independent sources outside of the program or offer therapies which you pay directly to (not through the program).

    Then take a look at the list we provided from the Government accountability Office (GAO) which will help to see how this school compares with their benchmarks of an acceptable level of choice for therapeutic schools.



    ...
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Nihilanthic on July 03, 2010, 05:33:58 PM
    Quote from: "Whooter"
    Mom and Dad, Hang in there and keep reading, there is some good information if you look past some of the angered posts, most of them mean well.  Programs are not a good fit for everyone.  If there had been any problems with Academy at Sisters I am sure it would have made its way back here and we just cant seem to dig up any dirt at all on this place so far.  If we do it will be posted here for sure.

    Some more thoughts would be to get as much info as you can.  Donít just use fornits as your sole source because it is highly biased.

    Seek the opinion of a local therapist, school counselor, speak with other parents who have had children in programs (as I suggested earlier).  You should tour the facility and speak to some of the girls who are there presently and get a sense for how they like it.  They will probably only expose you to those girls who have been there for awhile and are on a healthy track, but you will still be able to get a sense whether or not the school is a good fit for your daughter.  I was able to pull a few students aside during lunch with them and ask them questions.

    Ask if they provide therapy from independent sources outside of the program or offer therapies which you pay directly to (not through the program).

    Then take a look at the list we provided from the Government accountability Office (GAO) which will help to see how this school compares with their benchmarks of an acceptable level of choice for therapeutic schools.
    ...

    I'd say to seek a diagnosis first and foremost. Leading with your gut is going to get you nowhere except into the comforting arms of a person out to sell you something. I'd also check the GAO's reports to congress about these places. (http://http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=teen+abuse+hearing&aq=f)

    Additionally, do not go to a forum which is a censored "parent support forum" and claim that is the other side of anything or pretend it's unbiased. Moderators and ed-cons cut out any dissent quickly, and make their money with referrals, respectively - edcons are not anyone you should get advise from, EVER. They get paid per head to refer children to programs. They are the equivalent of car salesmen.

    I also recommend involvement in school - find out what she wants to do, and help her do that; if she doesn't know, help her find it out. I'm still discovering my own love of science and math, but getting on the engineering track to be around professors and talented, retired actuaries and engineers is only expanding my horizons. Maybe she needs more exposure? I won't have my degree until 29 or 30, but if anything I'll have a one-up on some kid who still hasn't grown up and only went through school because he was told to. I'm putting myself through rather well.

    Regarding talking to kids in a program - if they would be ALLOWED to speak to you, they would only be allowed to if the program trusted them to say what he program wanted them to say. I'd frankly be shocked if you spoke to anyone except with program staff right beside them, or some higher-level kid who has too much to lose to speak the truth, because escape is close by.

    Additionally, you can get therapy without a program, if the program only provides it separately in the first place. The only thing programs do is work a model of giving increased privileges and freedom for conformity, which usually means adhering to strict behavior and saying what they're told to say. This would be great if we were preparing to live in an Orwellian state, but certainly not any way to fix anything, or teach someone to be a well adjusted adult. I'd look into this young man speaking about how much easier the military was than a program (http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr47O5OjC_A) to get some perspective.

    I'd also check whooter's post history and read the attached files about the things he has actually said. The man is a shill, and quite disruptive; the only reason we allow him around is that what he says and how he says it speaks for itself if you read between the lines. Anyone can speak freely here, but that means people with a buck to make off of someone else are allowed to.
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Whooter on July 03, 2010, 06:03:18 PM
    Quote from: "Nihilanthic"
    Regarding talking to kids in a program - if they would be ALLOWED to speak to you, they would only be allowed to if the program trusted them to say what he program wanted them to say. I'd frankly be shocked if you spoke to anyone except with program staff right beside them, or some higher-level kid who has too much to lose to speak the truth, because escape is close by.

    My wife and I were actually allowed to walk the campus freely and speak to whomever we wanted to at the "Academy at swift river".  We ate lunch in the dining hall with all the other children.  I am not saying all programs do this because they are all different, but this was my experience.

    Quote
    Additionally, you can get therapy without a program, if the program only provides it separately in the first place. The only thing programs do is work a model of giving increased privileges and freedom for conformity, which usually means adhering to strict behavior and saying what they're told to say. This would be great if we were preparing to live in an Orwellian state, but certainly not any way to fix anything, or teach someone to be a well adjusted adult. I'd look into this young man speaking about how much easier the military was than a program to get some perspective.

    I am sorry you had this experience, my daughtersí was totally different.  This is why I encourage anyone new to investigate the program they are considering prior to placement like Morgans parents are.

    Quote
    I'd also check whooter's post history and read the attached files about the things he has actually said. The man is a shill, and quite disruptive; the only reason we allow him around is that what he says and how he says it speaks for itself if you read between the lines. Anyone can speak freely here, but that means people with a buck to make off of someone else are allowed to.

    I think it would be foolish to take anyoneís opinion at face value (my own included) over the internet without verifying it with a professional, especially when it comes to ones children.  If I am being disruptive I apologize, but I think Morgan and her parents deserve to hear more than one side of the issue.  The more information we can provide them the better, in my opinion.



    ...
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: photo man on July 03, 2010, 06:31:44 PM
    Quote from: "Whooter"
    Quote from: "Nihilanthic"
    Regarding talking to kids in a program - if they would be ALLOWED to speak to you, they would only be allowed to if the program trusted them to say what he program wanted them to say. I'd frankly be shocked if you spoke to anyone except with program staff right beside them, or some higher-level kid who has too much to lose to speak the truth, because escape is close by.

    My wife and I were actually allowed to walk the campus freely and speak to whomever we wanted to at the "Academy at swift river".  We ate lunch in the dining hall with all the other children.  I am not saying all programs do this because they are all different, but this was my experience.

    Quote
    Additionally, you can get therapy without a program, if the program only provides it separately in the first place. The only thing programs do is work a model of giving increased privileges and freedom for conformity, which usually means adhering to strict behavior and saying what they're told to say. This would be great if we were preparing to live in an Orwellian state, but certainly not any way to fix anything, or teach someone to be a well adjusted adult. I'd look into this young man speaking about how much easier the military was than a program to get some perspective.

    I am sorry you had this experience, my daughtersí was totally different.  This is why I encourage anyone new to investigate the program they are considering prior to placement like Morgans parents are.

    Quote
    I'd also check whooter's post history and read the attached files about the things he has actually said. The man is a shill, and quite disruptive; the only reason we allow him around is that what he says and how he says it speaks for itself if you read between the lines. Anyone can speak freely here, but that means people with a buck to make off of someone else are allowed to.

    I think it would be foolish to take anyoneís opinion at face value (my own included) over the internet without verifying it with a professional, especially when it comes to ones children.  If I am being disruptive I apologize, but I think Morgan and her parents deserve to hear more than one side of the issue.  The more information we can provide them the better, in my opinion.



    ...


    ASR / Academy Swift River / - Rudy Bentz was the head master when Whooter sent his daughter to the Academy of Swift River.   Rudy Bentz was notorious for verbally abusing students and invading their physical boundaries.  Whooter advocates for ASR but will not tell you about his daughters lack of success after she graduated.  She split and started drinking.  Will Whooter admit this?  No, he will not.  

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou9i0fk2KBY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou9i0fk2KBY)
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Whooter on July 03, 2010, 06:32:23 PM
    Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
    Again, he states clearly, the child has no rights in big, bold red typeface. A "product" with "no rights"? This sounds like a human slave trader, not a compassionate helper.

    Maybe when you have children of your own (or if you do then) when they grow up you will understand.  Parents have a responsibility to take care of their children and they have to make hard choices.  Children just cannot decide on their own to stop going to school (until age 16 in some states).  They cant decide on their own to move out of the house until a certain age.  They cant make their medical decisions at age 1 or age 5 or age 13 etc., they donít attain these rights.. the parents are responsible.  Morgans parents are responsible for her and for her well being.

    If you disagree with this then that is fine you need to change the laws and get out and vote to make it effective.  But you shouldnít criticize parents for doing their job, Dysfunction Junction.  You will find out someday when your child tells you they donít want to go to school at say age 13 and they say ďDont I get the right to choose what to do with my own life!  Donít I have rights?Ē  lol.  No offense intended, but I donít think you have had experience raising a child or a teenager.  They donít have any rights (by law) until they turn 18/21.  I am willing to discuss this with you if you like and you can share your views, but we should take it off line from this thread.



    ...
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Whooter on July 03, 2010, 06:48:38 PM
    Quote from: "photo man"
    ASR / Academy Swift River / - Rudy Bentz was the head master when Whooter sent his daughter to the Academy of Swift River.   Whooter advocates for ASR but will not tell you about his daughters lack of success after she graduated.  She split and started drinking.  Will Whooter admit this?  No, he will not.  

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou9i0fk2KBY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou9i0fk2KBY)

    I have talked about this many times.  My daughter came home and after a couple weeks she went back to her old friends again and started hanging out (against my wishes).  But the difference was she and I talked about it like adults and she wanted to visit them and we had a communication like we never had and we built a trust.  She quickly grew tired of their life style and stopped hanging with them.  she had matured past them and wanted to focus on herself and found new friends.
      So yes she did go back to her old ways (sort of) but got back on a healthy path.  Nothing is perfect and everyone is different.  Its not like the kids are brainwashed and come out all compliant and robot like.  The kids grow emotionally and end up making better life decisions for themselves.



    ...
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: photo man on July 03, 2010, 06:52:36 PM
    Whooter what do you mean by "old ways."  Drinking?  Running away?   :beat:
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Academy at Sisters on July 03, 2010, 06:54:31 PM
    Academy at Sisters is a cultic gulag which tortures and brainwashes its captives.

    About brainwashing and systemic abuse at Academy at Sisters:
    Quote
    Academy at Sisters abuse Ľ 26 Nov 2009, 22:53

    I feel I have to post in case there are some parents considering the Academy at Sisters (Bend, Oregon) as an alternative to MBA. My ex-husband put my daughter at the Academy at Sisters and while I am fairly certain they did not do the lap dancing and other forms of sexual role playing, they did engage in other forms of abuse mentioned at MBA. For instance, they will take away school credits and/or remove the student from the public school some of the students get to attend (Bend High School). In my daughters case this was done one week before finals because she made negative comments about the Academy to her father who was fully and completely brainwashed. This frequently happens before a girl is to graduate either from the program or high school in order to keep them longer. They also will force students to be isolated - either in solitary confinement or by not permitting them to interact with the other girls around them. For more than a month my daughter was not allowed to talk to the other girls or eat with them at mealtimes. The Academy even went so far as to tell the other Academy girls who attended Bend High School with my daughter that they had to ignore her and not acknowledge her while she was at school. Why a public high school puts up with shunning is beyond me but it is done frequently. On occasions they ask the girls to disclose embarrassing things about themselves to the group. Privacy and respect are nonexistent. They also have "feedback," that common form of abuse where they can only say "thank you" as all the other girls and staff tell you anything and everything negative about you they can come up with. Since the only way a girl can move up levels and get privledges is by snitching on the other students they will make up complete lies if they have to. The point of all this is that I am sure parents of Mt. Bachelor students are probably looking at alternatives for their kids who have been messed up by their experiences at MBA and can't return home. The Academy at Sisters is not the answer. I would imagine most programs are probably equally as abusive so all I can suggest is that you get a good therapist and maybe find a family member or friend the kid can live with for awhile. They get out of these programs very angry and need a lot of time, space and support to get acclimated to the real world. I was not prepared for the anger I saw when my daughter ran away a couple of weeks before her 18th birthday and was disowned by her father for a period of time. It has taken a couple of years to get to the point where she we no longer has nightmares about the place and she has been able to put it behind her.Academy at Sisters abuse
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Whooter on July 03, 2010, 07:03:35 PM
    Quote from: "Academy at Sisters"
    Academy at Sisters is a cultic gulag which tortures and brainwashes its captives.

    About brainwashing and systemic abuse at Academy at Sisters:
    Quote
    Academy at Sisters abuse Ľ 26 Nov 2009, 22:53

    I feel I have to post in case there are some parents considering the Academy at Sisters (Bend, Oregon) as an alternative to MBA. My ex-husband put my daughter at the Academy at Sisters and while I am fairly certain they did not do the lap dancing and other forms of sexual role playing, they did engage in other forms of abuse mentioned at MBA. For instance, they will take away school credits and/or remove the student from the public school some of the students get to attend (Bend High School). In my daughters case this was done one week before finals because she made negative comments about the Academy to her father who was fully and completely brainwashed. This frequently happens before a girl is to graduate either from the program or high school in order to keep them longer. They also will force students to be isolated - either in solitary confinement or by not permitting them to interact with the other girls around them. For more than a month my daughter was not allowed to talk to the other girls or eat with them at mealtimes. The Academy even went so far as to tell the other Academy girls who attended Bend High School with my daughter that they had to ignore her and not acknowledge her while she was at school. Why a public high school puts up with shunning is beyond me but it is done frequently. On occasions they ask the girls to disclose embarrassing things about themselves to the group. Privacy and respect are nonexistent. They also have "feedback," that common form of abuse where they can only say "thank you" as all the other girls and staff tell you anything and everything negative about you they can come up with. Since the only way a girl can move up levels and get privledges is by snitching on the other students they will make up complete lies if they have to. The point of all this is that I am sure parents of Mt. Bachelor students are probably looking at alternatives for their kids who have been messed up by their experiences at MBA and can't return home. The Academy at Sisters is not the answer. I would imagine most programs are probably equally as abusive so all I can suggest is that you get a good therapist and maybe find a family member or friend the kid can live with for awhile. They get out of these programs very angry and need a lot of time, space and support to get acclimated to the real world. I was not prepared for the anger I saw when my daughter ran away a couple of weeks before her 18th birthday and was disowned by her father for a period of time. It has taken a couple of years to get to the point where she we no longer has nightmares about the place and she has been able to put it behind her.Academy at Sisters abuse

    Do you have a link to the original?  I wasnt able to find this post in the database.  Thanks Academy at sisters



    ...
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Troll Control on July 03, 2010, 07:07:32 PM
    No, thanks.  There's nothing I'd like to discuss with you.  My comments have nothing to do with parenting, they simpIy reflect your views on children and programs.  I just want Morgan's folks to know where you're coming from, because you sure as hell will just be blowing smoke up their asses, quoting phony statistics and falsifying your own "success" story.  It shouldn't bother you that I just post quotes of what you said.  If it does, maybe you shouldn't have said it, but you did.  

    When you say children have no rights, it dovetails with your statements that you don't believe kids should have access to an abuse hotline independent of the facility to report any abuses (remember, you said they shouldn't have one because "the abuse hotline operator might talk dirty to the kids").  You stated they should be forced to report to their very own abusers, the program staff, which, of course, is pure lunacy.  This is just one of many of your views I will illustrate as I see fit by supplying Morgan's parents with your prior statements.  

    Let's be real for a moment: You're not what you claim to be, and we here all know it, but they might need some help to figure it out.  As I have explained before, if your comments and recruitment efforts lead to even one kid being abused at the hands of programs you promote here, it will be a very, very sad day, as it's completely preventable if people know what your true reason for being here is, a financial interest in the TBS industry, where you have claimed "the real money is."  

    So let's not play coy, shall we?
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Ursus on July 03, 2010, 07:13:03 PM
    @Whooter: that post was originally posted (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=352287#p352277) in one of the Mount Bachelor Academy threads by "Academy at Sisters abuse," shortly after MBA was effectively shut down, in case you are wondering re. context...

    Quote from: "Academy at Sisters"
    Academy at Sisters is a cultic gulag which tortures and brainwashes its captives.

    About brainwashing and systemic abuse at Academy at Sisters:
    Quote
    Academy at Sisters abuse Ľ 26 Nov 2009, 22:53

    I feel I have to post in case there are some parents considering the Academy at Sisters (Bend, Oregon) as an alternative to MBA. My ex-husband put my daughter at the Academy at Sisters and while I am fairly certain they did not do the lap dancing and other forms of sexual role playing, they did engage in other forms of abuse mentioned at MBA. For instance, they will take away school credits and/or remove the student from the public school some of the students get to attend (Bend High School). In my daughters case this was done one week before finals because she made negative comments about the Academy to her father who was fully and completely brainwashed. This frequently happens before a girl is to graduate either from the program or high school in order to keep them longer. They also will force students to be isolated - either in solitary confinement or by not permitting them to interact with the other girls around them. For more than a month my daughter was not allowed to talk to the other girls or eat with them at mealtimes. The Academy even went so far as to tell the other Academy girls who attended Bend High School with my daughter that they had to ignore her and not acknowledge her while she was at school. Why a public high school puts up with shunning is beyond me but it is done frequently. On occasions they ask the girls to disclose embarrassing things about themselves to the group. Privacy and respect are nonexistent. They also have "feedback," that common form of abuse where they can only say "thank you" as all the other girls and staff tell you anything and everything negative about you they can come up with. Since the only way a girl can move up levels and get privledges is by snitching on the other students they will make up complete lies if they have to. The point of all this is that I am sure parents of Mt. Bachelor students are probably looking at alternatives for their kids who have been messed up by their experiences at MBA and can't return home. The Academy at Sisters is not the answer. I would imagine most programs are probably equally as abusive so all I can suggest is that you get a good therapist and maybe find a family member or friend the kid can live with for awhile. They get out of these programs very angry and need a lot of time, space and support to get acclimated to the real world. I was not prepared for the anger I saw when my daughter ran away a couple of weeks before her 18th birthday and was disowned by her father for a period of time. It has taken a couple of years to get to the point where she we no longer has nightmares about the place and she has been able to put it behind her.Academy at Sisters abuse
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Whooter on July 03, 2010, 07:25:48 PM
    Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
    No, thanks.  There's nothing I'd like to discuss with you.  My comments have nothing to do with parenting, they simpIy reflect your views on children and programs.  I just want Morgan's folks to know where you're coming from, because you sure as hell will just be blowing smoke up their asses, quoting phony statistics and falsifying your own "success" story.  It shouldn't bother you that I just post quotes of what you said.  If it does, maybe you shouldn't have said it, but you did.  

    When you say children have no rights, it dovetails with your statements that you don't believe kids should have access to an abuse hotline independent of the facility to report any abuses (remember, you said they shouldn't have one because "the abuse hotline operator might talk dirty to the kids").  You stated they should be forced to report to their very own abusers, the program staff, which, of course, is pure lunacy.  This is just one of many of your views I will illustrate as I see fit by supplying Morgan's parents with your prior statements.  

    Let's be real for a moment: You're not what you claim to be, and we here all know it, but they might need some help to figure it out.  As I have explained before, if your comments and recruitment efforts lead to even one kid being abused at the hands of programs you promote here, it will be a very, very sad day, as it's completely preventable if people know what your true reason for being here is, a financial interest in the TBS industry, where you have claimed "the real money is."  

    So let's not play coy, shall we?

    I think that you have a sickness, Dysfunction Junction, read your own posts and your footer.  It bugs you that I can speak openly about the good and bad sides of the industry, that my family had a good experience and your mind is set to speak only negative aspects of it.  

    If you feel children should have rights prior to the age of 18 and decide their own fate then you should take it up with the government.  Dont take it out on every parent who shows up here trying to seek answers and derail each thread with your hatred.  Lets have respect for Morgan and her parents and keep the conversation towards helping them make the right decision and providing them with information and insight from our own experiences.



    ...
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Ursus on July 03, 2010, 07:27:40 PM
    Quote from: "Morgan's mom"
    There are always good and bad situations to everything in life.  I'm not that BLIND as to not be aware of the history with some of the programs out there.  My husband and I both had the delightful pleasure of experiencing the possibility of being sent to a program in our youth.  We, too, went through many of the things my daughter is going through now.  We also know the path she is on and where it has the potential to go.  We are fortunate to be here today to tell about it.  I guess God had future plans for us - there are many scenarios we got ourselves into that could have ended our lives along time ago.
    Just curious... which program or programs might that be? There were certainly fewer around during that time...
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Academy at Sisters on July 03, 2010, 07:34:03 PM
    Heres the linkĒ

    viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29113&p=352277&hilit=academy+sisters#p352277 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29113&p=352277&hilit=academy+sisters#p352277)

    The closed program discussed on that thread, Mount Bachelor Academy, operated from 1988 to 2010(could be off by a year or so) and is a CEDU spin off just like Academy at Sisters. So, it was in operation about 20 years before it was shut down for, among other things, forcing all residents to suffer and participate in ritualistic sexual abuse. (Sorry. I can't think of a better term for MBA's brand of organized sexual torture)That's despite abuse being reported since its inception. Does that give you an idea of what these organizations can get away with?

    And to Joel and photoman: please do not comment on this thread if you cannot resist allowing John D. Reuben to dominate this conversation by going down tangents. As you should know, he had two sons. One now deceased. Alternatively, on the off-chance we have misidentified him, he can in no way be expected to report any dealings with any young adult in a straightforward manner when pertaining to the teen abduction industry. Leave that line of inquiry to the one of the thousands of threads you embark on focusing on that subject.
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Troll Control on July 03, 2010, 07:43:06 PM
    More on the Academy at Sisters:

    Academy at Sisters (http://http://www.secretprisonsforteens.dk/fornitswiki/index.php/Academy_at_Sisters) on Secret Prisons for Teens.

    Many more links from Secret Prisons For Teens on their page.

    Another Fornits topic here. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=8309#p82581)  Thread links to HEAL and FICA which both classify it as "suspected of being abusive" and list many utems of concern about their program.
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Troll Control on July 03, 2010, 07:57:48 PM
    Quote from: "Whooter"
    Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
    No, thanks.  There's nothing I'd like to discuss with you.  My comments have nothing to do with parenting, they simpIy reflect your views on children and programs.  I just want Morgan's folks to know where you're coming from, because you sure as hell will just be blowing smoke up their asses, quoting phony statistics and falsifying your own "success" story.  It shouldn't bother you that I just post quotes of what you said.  If it does, maybe you shouldn't have said it, but you did.  

    When you say children have no rights, it dovetails with your statements that you don't believe kids should have access to an abuse hotline independent of the facility to report any abuses (remember, you said they shouldn't have one because "the abuse hotline operator might talk dirty to the kids").  You stated they should be forced to report to their very own abusers, the program staff, which, of course, is pure lunacy.  This is just one of many of your views I will illustrate as I see fit by supplying Morgan's parents with your prior statements.  

    Let's be real for a moment: You're not what you claim to be, and we here all know it, but they might need some help to figure it out.  As I have explained before, if your comments and recruitment efforts lead to even one kid being abused at the hands of programs you promote here, it will be a very, very sad day, as it's completely preventable if people know what your true reason for being here is, a financial interest in the TBS industry, where you have claimed "the real money is."  

    So let's not play coy, shall we?

    I think that you have a sickness, Dysfunction Junction, read your own posts and your footer.  It bugs you that I can speak openly about the good and bad sides of the industry, that my family had a good experience and your mind is set to speak only negative aspects of it.  

    If you feel children should have rights prior to the age of 18 and decide their own fate then you should take it up with the government.  Dont take it out on every parent who shows up here trying to seek answers and derail each thread with your hatred.  Lets have respect for Morgan and her parents and keep the conversation towards helping them make the right decision and providing them with information and insight from our own experiences.



    ...

    Again, my aim is to keep kids from being abused at programs you promote here.  I don't particularly care about your opinion of me.  I have been nothing but respectful to Morgan and her family, so, of course, I'm not "taking anything out on them."  Like I said, even your "good experience" is phony.  Here's a quote of a moderator's comments about your revisionist family history:

    Quote from: "Deborah"
    Quote from: ""Guest""
    This is the last refuge for someone caught blatantly lying so many times that he has no other excuse but "They altered my posts!" What a LOSER.

     :rofl:
    That's about the size of it. He hasn't a leg to stand on in an honest debate, so he resorts to attacks and false allegations. I could provide links to many posts that I would've loved to dump. They're still there.
    The only one 'editing' Who's posts is Who. Remember the one in which he stated his daughter split and didn't talk to him for 2 years. He apparently forgot he posted that back when he was anon- before he picked a user name. When I linked to it, he promptly deleted it.
    Wah, wah, wah.  :cry2:

    So, once more, if you're not proud of what you have posted here, you shouldn't have posted those items.  My simply pointing them out is not the problem.  The problem is that you said it and now you have to own it.  Take some responsibility for your actions.  You are the one doing a disservice to Morgan and her family by being dishonest, not me.  You are a gigantic phony and they have a right to know you're in it for the money.
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Whooter on July 03, 2010, 08:10:35 PM
    Look, Dysfunction Junction, if you bother to look at the posters name it wasnt written by me.  It was written by a poster named Deborah.  If you can locate an original post then we can discuss it.  You are making yourself look foolish and desperate.  Search the database posts that "I wrote".  I cant control what other people say about me.  If I made conflicting statements or if there are posts, that I made, that you dont agree with then I am willing to discuss them openly here on the forum.  I stand behind my posts, but I cant defend or fight off other peoples posts.  People are free to say what they want this is an open forum.



    ...
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 03, 2010, 08:48:33 PM
    (http://http://www.frontiernet.net/~joe14580/this%20thread%20has%20derailed.jpg)

    Thanks, DJ, hand Whooter another victory in thread derailment. Good thing Morgan's Dad's seen sanity BEFORE the Whospam started. Sorry, Whooter, you derail another thread but still fail again.
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Whooter on July 03, 2010, 09:01:13 PM
    Fuck, why does DJ give whooter all that attention?  Its like he hands the guy the megaphone and whooter takes over the thread. Why?
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Awake on July 03, 2010, 09:07:27 PM
    To Morgan, and her parents, but especially you

    I donít know if this decision is final or not, but what I am hearing is that they might really be willing to work with you on a reasonable alternative.  From what is being said there is a very common power struggle going on in the family dynamic. Everyone needs a sense of control over their lives, and if you are willing to give up a little of it, you may not lose it all.  Your parents are expressing that this choice IS their last option based on your behavior, and so has become a situation where you are forcing them to force you to cooperate.  If you are made to go to this program without resolving this power issue with your parents this vicious cycle might escalate in worse ways than you can imagine. You canít Ďwiní, you really canít, and whatever alternative they are open to is a good one.  I know you canít just do away with any resentment or bitterness over what has been going on in your family, but if the control tactics come to the point where you have to go to this place under the current circumstances this might become a seething underlying issue that damages your family relationship beyond repair.  

    I heard one of your parents say they are not entirely right either, and maybe that makes it hard to submit to the choices they want to give you, but if you are willing to put the right and wrong aside for now and just do it you will avoid a far more painful experience in which you will have to submit to a situation you disagree with much more, and you will submit even if you have to learn to fake the most genuine of emotions.  It is a unique kind of suffering that you truly do not want, much harder than what it will take for you if you give in now.  It may even be better for you in the end as far as getting what you want out of your family relationship, at least you will maintain a position of more equal footing when you are working through things with them rather than being put at the bottom of the ladder.  Someday you will find that you are going to want their support in your endeavors, and maybe even want them in your life as equals and friends, but if the situation gets to a point where you are put in a position of powerlessness it may be impossible to accept that support without also accepting their domination of you.  You may get married someday, or accomplish things that you will want their blessing for.  That blessing may always carry with it that denunciation of you.

    I hope you all can give this one last chance to work it out.  You may have to live with unresolved anger  and it may be difficult to find a way to get along for awhile, but if you can turn things around now and get through it, IT WILL BE WORTH IT.  You are always going to be a family, you will never be able to avoid that even if it becomes forever associated with animosity and interactions that disqualify each other.  If you, Morgan, canít make a really tough move to cooperate with your parents now, you may never come back from this.  

    .
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Whooter on July 03, 2010, 09:16:37 PM
    Quote from: "Awake"
    To Morgan, and her parents, but especially you

    I donít know if this decision is final or not, but what I am hearing is that they might really be willing to work with you on a reasonable alternative.  From what is being said there is a very common power struggle going on in the family dynamic. Everyone needs a sense of control over their lives, and if you are willing to give up a little of it, you may not lose it all.  Your parents are expressing that this choice IS their last option based on your behavior, and so has become a situation where you are forcing them to force you to cooperate.  If you are made to go to this program without resolving this power issue with your parents this vicious cycle might escalate in worse ways than you can imagine. You canít Ďwiní, you really canít, and whatever alternative they are open to is a good one.  I know you canít just do away with any resentment or bitterness over what has been going on in your family, but if the control tactics come to the point where you have to go to this place under the current circumstances this might become a seething underlying issue that damages your family relationship beyond repair.  

    I heard one of your parents say they are not entirely right either, and maybe that makes it hard to submit to the choices they want to give you, but if you are willing to put the right and wrong aside for now and just do it you will avoid a far more painful experience in which you will have to submit to a situation you disagree with much more, and you will submit even if you have to learn to fake the most genuine of emotions.  It is a unique kind of suffering that you truly do not want, much harder than what it will take for you if you give in now.  It may even be better for you in the end as far as getting what you want out of your family relationship, at least you will maintain a position of more equal footing when you are working through things with them rather than being put at the bottom of the ladder.  Someday you will find that you are going to want their support in your endeavors, and maybe even want them in your life as equals and friends, but if the situation gets to a point where you are put in a position of powerlessness it may be impossible to accept that support without also accepting their domination of you.  You may get married someday, or accomplish things that you will want their blessing for.  That blessing may always carry with it that denunciation of you.

    I hope you all can give this one last chance to work it out.  You may have to live with unresolved anger  and it may be difficult to find a way to get along for awhile, but if you can turn things around now and get through it, IT WILL BE WORTH IT.  You are always going to be a family, you will never be able to avoid that even if it becomes forever associated with animosity and interactions that disqualify each other.  If you, Morgan, canít make a really tough move to cooperate with your parents now, you may never come back from this.  

    .

    Very nicely stated, Awake.  Morgan, you should consider those wise words and try to look at those as the best path to get you to age 18.  If you can resolve this locally, working with your parents and with a counselor you will be better off.



    ...
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Awake on July 03, 2010, 09:25:47 PM
    Quote from: "Whooter"
    Quote from: "Awake"
    To Morgan, and her parents, but especially you

    I donít know if this decision is final or not, but what I am hearing is that they might really be willing to work with you on a reasonable alternative.  From what is being said there is a very common power struggle going on in the family dynamic. Everyone needs a sense of control over their lives, and if you are willing to give up a little of it, you may not lose it all.  Your parents are expressing that this choice IS their last option based on your behavior, and so has become a situation where you are forcing them to force you to cooperate.  If you are made to go to this program without resolving this power issue with your parents this vicious cycle might escalate in worse ways than you can imagine. You canít Ďwiní, you really canít, and whatever alternative they are open to is a good one.  I know you canít just do away with any resentment or bitterness over what has been going on in your family, but if the control tactics come to the point where you have to go to this place under the current circumstances this might become a seething underlying issue that damages your family relationship beyond repair.  

    I heard one of your parents say they are not entirely right either, and maybe that makes it hard to submit to the choices they want to give you, but if you are willing to put the right and wrong aside for now and just do it you will avoid a far more painful experience in which you will have to submit to a situation you disagree with much more, and you will submit even if you have to learn to fake the most genuine of emotions.  It is a unique kind of suffering that you truly do not want, much harder than what it will take for you if you give in now.  It may even be better for you in the end as far as getting what you want out of your family relationship, at least you will maintain a position of more equal footing when you are working through things with them rather than being put at the bottom of the ladder.  Someday you will find that you are going to want their support in your endeavors, and maybe even want them in your life as equals and friends, but if the situation gets to a point where you are put in a position of powerlessness it may be impossible to accept that support without also accepting their domination of you.  You may get married someday, or accomplish things that you will want their blessing for.  That blessing may always carry with it that denunciation of you.

    I hope you all can give this one last chance to work it out.  You may have to live with unresolved anger  and it may be difficult to find a way to get along for awhile, but if you can turn things around now and get through it, IT WILL BE WORTH IT.  You are always going to be a family, you will never be able to avoid that even if it becomes forever associated with animosity and interactions that disqualify each other.  If you, Morgan, canít make a really tough move to cooperate with your parents now, you may never come back from this.  

    .

    Very nicely stated, Awake.  Morgan, you should consider those wise words and try to look at those as the best path to get you to age 18.  If you can resolve this locally, working with your parents and with a counselor you will be better off.



    ...


    Thank you for your support.  I just want to see this work out for the best.
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Troll Control on July 04, 2010, 08:32:27 AM
    Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
    (http://http://www.frontiernet.net/~joe14580/this%20thread%20has%20derailed.jpg)

    Thanks, DJ, hand Whooter another victory in thread derailment. Good thing Morgan's Dad's seen sanity BEFORE the Whospam started. Sorry, Whooter, you derail another thread but still fail again.

    Pile, this is not a "victory" for anyone, especially Whooter.  You know as well as I (and Nihilanthic made the same comments as well on this thread) that Whooter is an object lesson to parents about this industry.  Frankly, the more he says, the more he exposes himself.  

    All I did was allow Morgan's parents to see the difference in what is said to prospective parents - the polite, cool, calm, collected sales pitch - and how these same sheisters actually view the children off whom they are making their living.  It's a teachable moment.  What these people really think and do, out of the public purview, is twisted and demented.  Whooter is just a prime example of this - from the fictitious "My kid did well after the program" (i.e., the glossy brochure with smiling faces) story to the desperate and vile commentary about posters who point out that this is factually bereft (i.e. what they do to non-conforming kids behind closed doors).

    Whooter is the glossy brochure, while his other usernames (Mitt Romney, SUCK IT, Al Gore, Sarah Palin, RobertBruce ., Queef, John McCain, etc. ad nauseum) are the thugs that actually get their hands on your children.
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Whooter on July 04, 2010, 12:54:02 PM
    Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"

    Whooter is the glossy brochure, while his other usernames (Mitt Romney, SUCK IT, Al Gore, Sarah Palin, RobertBruce ., Queef, John McCain, etc. ad nauseum) are the thugs that actually get their hands on your children.


    People logging in under numerous usernames appears to continue to be a source of heartburn for you, Dysfunction Junction.  If this is so unsettling to you the fornits admins may be able to change the rules to your liking so that each user can only be assigned one user name.  But I donít have control over that.

    I can tell you that of the list of usernames that you laid out above, some are mine and some are not.  So you are getting yourself into a frenzy for no reason and appear to be a little paranoid about who is behind each post.

    Another option is to ask fornits admins to list out our user names (and string together past anon posts)and post them publicly.  I have done this upon request a few times before and am willing to do it again, if it interests you (I have nothing to hide).  You have never agreed to this yourself, for some reason, and are afraid to agree to have all your user names revealed along with the anon posts.  The last time you were asked this you cut and ran and stopped posting for awhile.

    So give it some thought, if you are embarrassed about your past posts and donít want to have your user names and anon posts revealed openly then just say so and we will drop it.  I wont rub it inÖÖ  There are two of us talking here and one of us has something to hide and it is not me because I have done this many times before but you consistently continue to run from this subject.

    As an aside:  If you want to pursue this topic further I would take it to another thread out of respect for Morgan and her parents.  There are plenty of other threads where this can be discussed, no need to muck up this one anymore than it is.



    ...
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Troll Control on July 04, 2010, 01:57:01 PM
    Lols.  I have had one username and one username only for my entire time posting here.  You have my permission to verify with the site's admin.  Go ahead and have them link up any anonymous posts as well.  You have my permission.  Please ask them to post the results of your inquiry.  We'll all be awaiting the big event with bated breath.  

    I'm going to go ahead and do a little prognosticating now, too.  My predicttion?  You'll do neither of the above and just continue claiming I have multiple logins and you'll keep doing it right here in this thread rather than doing what you requested and move it to another thread.

    In the meantime, I moved our discussion over here (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&p=368559#p368559) where it belongs to honor your request.
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Whooter on July 04, 2010, 02:22:20 PM
    Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
    Lols.  I have had one username and one username only for my entire time posting here.  You have my permission to verify with the site's admin.  Go ahead and have them link up any anonymous posts as well.  You have my permission.  Please ask them to post the results of your inquiry.  We'll all be awaiting the big event with bated breath.  

    I knew you would run.  We both know that we cant request to have another users posts or user names strung together.  You need to get it done yourself.  But you knew this .. good try again.

    Like I said, I have done it a few times and you keep side stepping it.  Just wanted to make it clear who was being open and who wasnt.....Not a big deal.  Lets move this off this thread shall we?



    ...
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Troll Control on July 04, 2010, 03:32:17 PM
    Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
    In the meantime, I moved our discussion over here (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&p=368559#p368559) where it belongs to honor your request.

    Maybe you missed this earlier.  I have moved this to the appropriate thread.  Please continue over there.
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: SUCK IT on July 04, 2010, 05:51:13 PM
    Just read through this thread. Quite the family soap opera, fornits loves these types of threads. Did anyone else laugh out loud at the advice for a 15 year old girl to run away and live on the streets instead of  going to a treatment program? Yeah, because a 15 year old girl living on the streets is so much safer, right? Anyone making this argument is completely insane, a young girl is much more likely to be a victim of violence or exploitation on the street, than inside of a treatment center with professionals. If you cannot see this is a truth, then you seriously need a reality check about the situation young teens go through on the street. More disturbing is the posters offering to take the kid in "if only I lived closer" (the most famous internet cop out ever!), that's just wrong. Who takes in a 15 year old girl just because she might be sent to a treatment center? I have to imagine that is illegal, anyways, but hey why not offer bullshit solutions on the internet you have no interest in following through with, all it takes is a few keystrokes.

    Pile of Kids and Nihalinic both attempt to make it seem as if they all programs are evil, soul destroying, concentration camps. Kudos on the over dramatization, it might work on gullible parents who might even assume you set foot in a adolescent program yourselves, which I have a suspicion neither of these posters ever did. Call it a hunch, based on their regurgitation of the mythology of what programs are like, a mythology you will only find on fornits. Only someone who's knowledge of programs is built upon this mythology would ever suggest a young teen girl run away to the streets than face a treatment program.

    Here is some advice based on reality. Don't run away from home.You will be found and then you will be sent to a more controlled environment treatment program. The people giving you advice here mostly have never even been to a program, let alone the one you speak about. They spend their time creating a narrative that all programs are evil, the kids are forever damaged and nothing good can come of it. More likely than not, you'll make some new friends, do well in the new environment, come home, move on with your life and never look back. Don't make the mistake that people here on fornits want to help you, or will ever follow through with the help that they offer, they are completely full of shit. They have themselves invested personally in a losing argument here, and their egos so big they are only interested in one-upping their competition, in this case Whooter who simply tells it like it is. Then you got the hobby arm chair activists like Pile and Nile who will spin the fornits mythology in a way to scare any parents or kid, but it's just not true. You will not be abused, or brainwashed or mistreated. You will make new friends, find the support of a caring staff and probably do very well. Or you can run away from home and call a lawyer who will never call you back, or wait for the donations and place to stay people here promise you but will never follow through.  When you are older you will be thankful that you have parents who care about you, you probably do not realize or appreciate it now, but you will someday. The people here will help you destroy your life to win an argument, don't give them that chance. Good luck in treatment if that's where you end up, it's not nearly as bad as the people in this thread are claiming. In fact, you might even enjoy it.
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 04, 2010, 06:03:14 PM
    (http://http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/c/c2/Trollspray.jpg)
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: T-Rex on July 04, 2010, 06:53:24 PM
    I have been watching this thread for a few days now. Does everyone still remember we are talking about a 15 year old girl here. That this thread is not about Pile, Whooter, Dysfunction Junction, Suck It, Ursus or anyone else.
    Why do you men have to trail off into your duels of ego, "I'm better then you shenanigans".
    Neither of you in my opinion have the moral ground, you disrespect this site and yourselves with your constant bickering. More important you loose site of the overall objective, that was to help Morgan and her parents.
    Maybe you did, I read that several of you were PM'ing Morgan with information, that I hope was beneficial.
    I can only hope that Morgan and her parents got the help that this Web Site promotes and several of the members purport to want to give.
    I would hope in the future that you could refrain from arguing with one another while your helping someone. Everyone has a opinion of the TTI, Morgans parents did not appear naive or gullible. They should hear all sides so they can make a informed decision. I found at the onset that you were doing this very well, until your ego's took over and off you went.
    Just my two cents...I know mind my own business.
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Whooter on July 04, 2010, 09:44:38 PM
    T-Rex, I think your post, in part, was a good observation.  From my vantage point it seemed like many people get overly excited trying to get their point of view heard and there is also an intolerance present towards those who have a differing point of view from their own.  Many here find it difficult to hear views which leave the door open to the possible placement of a child in a program and they find that threatening to them and therefore have a need to silence them.

    Resistance comes from your ego.  When a persons  ego takes ownership of their ideas, then anyone who challenges their ideas are treated as a personal challenge, hence the need to defend yourself as if being attacked.  Think of it as a free thinker entering an LDS meeting or an anti abortion rally.

    If people can just try to keep their ideas separate from their ego, then they will not have this personal attachment to them and we can experience a much more healthier discussion and learn from each others ideas.




    ...
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Ursus on July 05, 2010, 09:00:11 PM
    Originally posted (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=352287#p352277) on 26 Nov 2009 in the Mount Bachelor Academy Shut Down thread:
    Quote from: "Academy at Sisters abuse"
    I feel I have to post in case there are some parents considering the Academy at Sisters (Bend, Oregon) as an alternative to MBA.  My ex-husband put my daughter at the Academy at Sisters and while I am fairly certain they did not do the lap dancing and other forms of sexual role playing, they did engage in other forms of abuse mentioned at MBA.  For instance, they will take away school credits and/or remove the student from the public school some of the students get to attend (Bend High School).  In my daughters case this was done one week before finals because she made negative comments about the Academy to her father who was fully and completely brainwashed.  This frequently happens before a girl is to graduate either from the program or high school in order to keep them longer.  They also will force students to be isolated - either in solitary confinement or by not permitting them to interact with the other girls around them.  For more than a month my daughter was not allowed to talk to the other girls or eat with them at mealtimes.  The Academy even went so far as to tell the other Academy girls who attended Bend High School with my daughter that they had to ignore her and not acknowledge her while she was at school.  Why a public high school puts up with shunning is beyond me but it is done frequently.  On occasions they ask the girls to disclose embarrassing things about themselves to the group.  Privacy and respect are nonexistent.  They also have "feedback," that common form of abuse where they can only say "thank you" as all the other girls and staff tell you anything and everything negative about you they can come up with.  Since the only way a girl can move up levels and get privledges is by snitching on the other students they will make up complete lies if they have to.  The point of all this is that I am sure parents of Mt. Bachelor students are probably looking at alternatives for their kids who have been messed up by their experiences at MBA and can't return home.  The Academy at Sisters is not the answer.  I would imagine most programs are probably equally as abusive so all I can suggest is that you get a good therapist and maybe find a family member or friend the kid can live with for awhile.  They get out of these programs very angry and need a lot of time, space and support to get acclimated to the real world.  I was not prepared for the anger I saw when my daughter ran away a couple of weeks before her 18th birthday and was disowned by her father for a period of time.  It has taken a couple of years to get to the point where she we no longer has nightmares about the place and she has been able to put it behind her.
    One thing I consider another red flag about a program is when they do not post staff identities and brief bios on their website. In the case of Academy at Sisters, I could find only three individuals, on the academic faculty page (http://http://www.academyatsisters.org/girls-boarding-school-faculty.php). And yet, don't these girls, or at least some of them, attend Bend High School, at least some of the time?

    One would think that the therapeutic staff would be of more concern to parents, given that this is a behavior modification facility. And yet I was unable to locate any such individuals on their website. Perhaps I'm not looking at the right pages. Anybody else find any such individuals listed?
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Whooter on July 05, 2010, 09:14:52 PM
    Quote from: "Ursus"
    Originally posted (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=352287#p352277) on 26 Nov 2009 in the Mount Bachelor Academy Shut Down thread:
    Quote from: "Academy at Sisters abuse"
    I feel I have to post in case there are some parents considering the Academy at Sisters (Bend, Oregon) as an alternative to MBA.  My ex-husband put my daughter at the Academy at Sisters and while I am fairly certain they did not do the lap dancing and other forms of sexual role playing, they did engage in other forms of abuse mentioned at MBA.  For instance, they will take away school credits and/or remove the student from the public school some of the students get to attend (Bend High School).  In my daughters case this was done one week before finals because she made negative comments about the Academy to her father who was fully and completely brainwashed.  This frequently happens before a girl is to graduate either from the program or high school in order to keep them longer.  They also will force students to be isolated - either in solitary confinement or by not permitting them to interact with the other girls around them.  For more than a month my daughter was not allowed to talk to the other girls or eat with them at mealtimes.  The Academy even went so far as to tell the other Academy girls who attended Bend High School with my daughter that they had to ignore her and not acknowledge her while she was at school.  Why a public high school puts up with shunning is beyond me but it is done frequently.  On occasions they ask the girls to disclose embarrassing things about themselves to the group.  Privacy and respect are nonexistent.  They also have "feedback," that common form of abuse where they can only say "thank you" as all the other girls and staff tell you anything and everything negative about you they can come up with.  Since the only way a girl can move up levels and get privledges is by snitching on the other students they will make up complete lies if they have to.  The point of all this is that I am sure parents of Mt. Bachelor students are probably looking at alternatives for their kids who have been messed up by their experiences at MBA and can't return home.  The Academy at Sisters is not the answer.  I would imagine most programs are probably equally as abusive so all I can suggest is that you get a good therapist and maybe find a family member or friend the kid can live with for awhile.  They get out of these programs very angry and need a lot of time, space and support to get acclimated to the real world.  I was not prepared for the anger I saw when my daughter ran away a couple of weeks before her 18th birthday and was disowned by her father for a period of time.  It has taken a couple of years to get to the point where she we no longer has nightmares about the place and she has been able to put it behind her.
    One thing I consider another red flag about a program is when they do not post staff identities and brief bios on their website. In the case of Academy at Sisters, I could find only three individuals, on the academic faculty page (http://http://www.academyatsisters.org/girls-boarding-school-faculty.php). And yet, don't these girls, or at least some of them, attend Bend High School, at least some of the time?

    One would think that the therapeutic staff would be of more concern to parents, given that this is a behavior modification facility. And yet I was unable to locate any such individuals on their website. Perhaps I'm not looking at the right pages. Anybody else find any such individuals listed?

    My guess is that because it is a very small school that the teachers wear several hats and "cross train".  In the professional area I found:

    The Academy at Sisters Treatment Team consists of Case Managers, Clinical Director/Licensed Clinical Psychologist, Teacher(s), Academic Director, Operations Director and Executive Director.  To take advantage of the unified team talent and to ensure consistency throughout the process, the Treatment Team meets weekly to discuss the individual needs of each girl and the overall group dynamics, as well as make important treatment decisions as a Team.

    Upon admission, each student is assigned a personal Case Manager. The Case Managerís responsibility is to make sure that all components of treatment (therapeutic, academic, familial, community, safety, and self) are being utilized effectively. They provide weekly one-to-one sessions for each student on their caseload, participate in various on and off-campus activities, carry out weekly family conferences, facilitate weekly groups, and continually evaluate all facets of the girlsí individual treatment plans with the oversight of Dr. Julie Schneider, Licensed Clinical Psychologist. This ensures that the individualís program is addressing her most immediate needs and reinforcing positive changes.

    The Academy has built a strong Clinical Support Team within the community utilizing the services of a local Board Certified Child and Adolescent Psychiatrist for medication management; a Behavioral Consultant; and Licensed Therapists for additional support as needed.




    ...
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Antigen on July 05, 2010, 10:12:06 PM
    Well, haven't heard from Morgan or her parents in this thread in awhile now. Hope they didn't trick her into the car by telling her they were headed to a good local  counselor.
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 05, 2010, 10:29:05 PM
    They didn't. You're way late to the party on this one Ginger. Read the shoutbox chat history.
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Academy at Sisters on July 05, 2010, 10:47:46 PM
    How did this resolve?
    thanks
    How do you use the history command
    thanks.
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 05, 2010, 10:58:14 PM
    Straight link from the main page (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/chat/?view=logs)

    I'm 99% confident that we're done here.
    Title: Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
    Post by: Joel on July 05, 2010, 11:05:49 PM
    Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Ursus on July 05, 2010, 11:56:51 PM
    Quote from: "Joel"
    Ursus I completely agree with you about the staff qualifications not posted on their website.  The other thing I got a kick out of was the cheesy "Equine Assisted Therapy Program."   :roflmao:  
    Yah, that "equine assisted therapy" is the latest rage in behav mod. ALL the up and coming programs are doing it, yada yada yada.

    While I am sure that meaningful exchanges are taking place between the gals and the horsies, the chances of Academy at Sisters, or any other program jumping on that bandwagon, being meaningfully engaged in facilitating that exchange in an intentional fashion ... are pretty slim.
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 05, 2010, 11:59:12 PM
    Quote from: "Ursus"
    While I am sure that meaningful exchanges are taking place between the gals and the horsies

    You can find "meaningful exchanges" between girls and horses all over the Internet if you know where to look.
    Title: Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
    Post by: Joel on July 06, 2010, 12:39:15 AM
    Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Antigen on July 06, 2010, 09:55:29 AM
    Hm. Wonder what the Sudweeks (http://http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewforum.php?f=35) are up to these days?
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Ursus on July 06, 2010, 10:43:00 AM
    Quote from: "Joel"
    The Academy of Sisters posted the "Financial benefits" but not all the staff names/qualifications.  This was shady.  A desperate parent would not be able to recognize this problem.  People who worked in the industry would know what questions to ask {I hope} , if they were to send their child to a program but not desperate parents {a majority of the times}.  The reality is the TTI will continue to capitalize off of desperate parents.
    On Academy at Sisters' Loan Centers (http://http://www.academyatsisters.org/girls-boarding-school-loans.php) page, they suggest Clark Behavioral Health Financing (http://http://www.clarkbhf.com/) along with a direct link to Clark's on-line loan application page, as well as CEDU's Friends of Families with Children in Crisis Foundation (http://http://www.friendsoffamilies.org/) (see also previous post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30744&start=30#p368404) 'bout that). These are both organizations that are heavily vested in supporting the industry.
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: SUCK IT on July 06, 2010, 10:59:05 AM
    Does anyone else find it funny that the extremists here think they can tell whether a treatment program is good or not just by looking at the website? Hey look, they do group therapy!! LGAT! LGAT! LGAT!  :roflmao:  They look for their codewords based on the fornits mythology of what constitutes 'abuse', of course to a fornits extremist any type of treatment is 'abuse', the term is so watered down here it has lost all meaning. Some fornits codewords to look out for are treatment, therapy, AA, horses, camping. Of course pictures of adolescents having fun also sets off alarm bells for these fornits experts. The irony of course is they dismiss Educational Consultants, people who visit facilities and actually talk to real people in the real world, as unable to help parents find safe treatment. But then they act like they can be EdCons just from looking at websites, and offering advice to a underage teenage girl to run away and hit the streets. This forum is a total joke.  A stray parent here and there might get sucked into this mythology, but you have no impact on the 99.9% of parents who go to the professionals for advice.If you really wanted to help you'd start your own educational consultant group, but then you'd have to offer real solutions and act professional, something foreign to the extremists posting here.
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Ursus on July 06, 2010, 11:18:34 AM
    Quote from: "SUCK IT"
    This forum is a total joke.
    Then... why do you waste so much effort on trying to debunk everything anyone (other than Whooter) has to say, eh?  :D
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: MorganMDC on July 07, 2010, 01:38:32 AM
    Quote from: "Academy at Sisters"
    How did this resolve?
    thanks
    How do you use the history command
    thanks.
    Hasn't yet. While it looks we could possibly find an alternative, the Academy is still an option. My mother went alone to tour the place today.

    Quote from: "Antigen"
    Well, haven't heard from Morgan or her parents in this thread in awhile now. Hope they didn't trick her into the car by telling her they were headed to a good local  counselor.
    That didn't happen, haha, luckily.
    Title: Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
    Post by: Joel on July 07, 2010, 01:50:19 AM
    Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 07, 2010, 04:39:39 AM
    I have no idea what Joel's yammering about.

    Quote from: "MorganMDC"
    While it looks we could possibly find an alternative

    What? Learning to tolerate each other is now a "possible alternative"? Thought that would be pretty much the default.

    Quote from: "MorganMDC"
    the Academy is still an option.

    Use a small blade, and make sure it's sharp. Don't extend your arm too far when you stab; this makes grabbing or blocking it too easy. Instead keep it close to your body, rushing in like you're about to give the "escort" a fast hug, while keeping your *other* arm in front so they can grab that instead. Only at the very end do you deliver the hit, putting your whole body into it, preferably upwards under the ribcage, and then twist the blade as hard as you can. This is called the "prison yard rush" method and is incredibly difficult to stop.

    (Yes, I did just tell you how to stab someone. It's the same advice I'd give when anyone's trying to hurt you- rapist, serial killer, someone trying to you send you to a shithole, whatever.)

    Quote from: "MorganMDC"
    My mother went alone to tour the place today.

    Ooh, really? Maybe she can get on and tell us what they said- or if she actually went ahead and started looking at kids they didn't want her to look at, and talk to them, carefully looking in their eyes, when no one else was around...

    North Korea does tours, too.
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 07, 2010, 05:47:15 AM
    Print this out and hand it to her, asking her to fill in every phrase they used on the "tour". See how many rows, columns, and diagonals she gets.
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Awake on July 07, 2010, 09:40:37 PM
    Quote from: "Awake"
    Quote from: "Whooter"
    Quote from: "Awake"
    To Morgan, and her parents, but especially you

    I donít know if this decision is final or not, but what I am hearing is that they might really be willing to work with you on a reasonable alternative.  From what is being said there is a very common power struggle going on in the family dynamic. Everyone needs a sense of control over their lives, and if you are willing to give up a little of it, you may not lose it all.  Your parents are expressing that this choice IS their last option based on your behavior, and so has become a situation where you are forcing them to force you to cooperate.  If you are made to go to this program without resolving this power issue with your parents this vicious cycle might escalate in worse ways than you can imagine. You canít Ďwiní, you really canít, and whatever alternative they are open to is a good one.  I know you canít just do away with any resentment or bitterness over what has been going on in your family, but if the control tactics come to the point where you have to go to this place under the current circumstances this might become a seething underlying issue that damages your family relationship beyond repair.  

    I heard one of your parents say they are not entirely right either, and maybe that makes it hard to submit to the choices they want to give you, but if you are willing to put the right and wrong aside for now and just do it you will avoid a far more painful experience in which you will have to submit to a situation you disagree with much more, and you will submit even if you have to learn to fake the most genuine of emotions.  It is a unique kind of suffering that you truly do not want, much harder than what it will take for you if you give in now.  It may even be better for you in the end as far as getting what you want out of your family relationship, at least you will maintain a position of more equal footing when you are working through things with them rather than being put at the bottom of the ladder.  Someday you will find that you are going to want their support in your endeavors, and maybe even want them in your life as equals and friends, but if the situation gets to a point where you are put in a position of powerlessness it may be impossible to accept that support without also accepting their domination of you.  You may get married someday, or accomplish things that you will want their blessing for.  That blessing may always carry with it that denunciation of you.

    I hope you all can give this one last chance to work it out.  You may have to live with unresolved anger  and it may be difficult to find a way to get along for awhile, but if you can turn things around now and get through it, IT WILL BE WORTH IT.  You are always going to be a family, you will never be able to avoid that even if it becomes forever associated with animosity and interactions that disqualify each other.  If you, Morgan, canít make a really tough move to cooperate with your parents now, you may never come back from this.  

    .

    Very nicely stated, Awake.  Morgan, you should consider those wise words and try to look at those as the best path to get you to age 18.  If you can resolve this locally, working with your parents and with a counselor you will be better off.



    ...


    Thank you for your support.  I just want to see this work out for the best.


    I want to offer this out again if the idea is still being volleyed. No one wants to do this.


    .
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: MorganMDC on July 09, 2010, 01:08:09 AM
    Well, it's official.
    Just as an update, I'll post it.
    My parents have decided on the Academy.
    It's a go, though I have a while.
    Though this forum seems to have given my parents - especially my father who found a place in Portland that's not a live-in, but my mother has decided it isn't an option... - things to think about, there is no escaping this end result.
    I thank all of you for your help and insights, and if you find anything else, we'll check back here to look at it.
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Oscar on July 09, 2010, 02:01:23 AM
    I am sad to hear that the Academy became their decision. I will give your parents so much that they at least were brave enough to tell you instead of letting some hired muscles come into your bedroom at night and take you away in handcuffs and shackles.

    I will vote for creating a new thread called Facility survival training guide (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30769) with good advice how to raise in level so you can arrive a the good campus as fast as possible. I can see that they have a campus out in the woods where they will try to break you down and then a campus with horses and all the nice down for those of the teenagers, they have turned into robots. It will properly include faking a break down or two. It is important to read the therapists because the academy cost a sum of money. The therapists have to justify this payment so they have to discover a problem the therapists you have consulted so far have not discovered.
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 09, 2010, 02:04:36 AM
    It's time to stop talking to your parents- flat. In fact you might want to remain utterly and completely mute throughout the entire stay at this "Academy". Just don't talk. Period.

    Alternatively you can take Niles' advice on the first page of this thread.

    Or you could do what you can to end up in jail instead, which is a better place.

    It's not up to them, Morgan. It's up to you. And I would start doing shit right fucking now.
    Title: Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
    Post by: Joel on July 09, 2010, 02:22:38 AM
    Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 09, 2010, 02:31:41 AM
    Nuked
    Title: Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
    Post by: Joel on July 09, 2010, 02:35:41 AM
    Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 09, 2010, 02:37:51 AM
    Nuked
    Title: Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
    Post by: Joel on July 09, 2010, 02:42:38 AM
    Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Nihilanthic on July 09, 2010, 02:49:19 AM
    You realize that even if we were trying to argue against using waterboarding against children, some programmie would call it tough love, right?

    This is ludicrous.

    I can only hope everything was as glossy, harmless and lifetime-movie-network as the program literature says it is and not as bad as I'm afraid it is, but I hope a lot more that we can talk some sense into her parents before they drop an ivy league sum on some quack nonsense.
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 09, 2010, 03:07:24 AM
    Morgan? Dad? Mom? Remember, this is something that *you* will have to live with, not me. I'm just some random asshole on the Internet trying to get random people to stop sending their kids to shitholes.
    Title: Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
    Post by: Joel on July 09, 2010, 03:18:02 AM
    Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Nihilanthic on July 09, 2010, 03:23:09 AM
    Watch out now, that might be taken as a challenge by someone  :beat:

    I can say I'm ready to go disappear again, feeling this helpless is stupid. I'm sick of wasting my time trying to tell people facts when they'd rather live in ignorance so it's still subjective enough they can be a prick about their opinions, even if it hurts someone else, just so they can have their way.

    They just ended their relationship with their daughter and the only people who can help them is themselves; the taker of their money is going to be all too happy to continue to take their money and fuck things up worse so they need more treatment to fix it. Hell, I bet some accountant somewhere is already figuring out how they can string the girl along in some 'after care' program for crying out fucking loud.
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Oscar on July 09, 2010, 03:48:34 AM
    I believe that the best choice for this thread will be to advice Morgan how to survive the program.

    When she arrives she will be taken to the campus we have not been able to locate, once her parents have left. It is located in the woods. They have about 50 girls in the program and half of them are in the woods. It is here they will break her.

    According to survivors on Myspace the staff is 18 year olds just out of the high school hired for their muscles (http://http://forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=messageboard.viewThread&entryID=15863417&categoryID=0&IsSticky=0&groupID=101539431&Mytoken=37C25B22-E1B5-44EA-8C1806C6F57280C3157129547). They are not able to give therapy, but they are good at breaking people down because giving such a young inexperienced person power to control the lives of others will result in abuse of power.

    How can Morgan avoid a beating? How can we prepare her for the possibility of a haircut, fingering of her private parts and the loss of rings, earrings, necklaces and her private clothes? How can we advice her to fake a breaking and confess something which would satisfy the counselor coming around once per month?

    It is the time now until the program, which is important. It is very important that her friends at school are ready to air memorial groups on community networks as if she has died the minute she goes to the program. It is important that she prepare herself by not acting out but to make her mentally ready to go to prison, so she has a strategy once she is forced to surrender herself at the academy.

    Her parents will never know what has taken place in the wood. They have been a tour of the campus for the good, but broken girls and it is a totally other environment, so she should prepare herself for something her parents would not believe the program has.

    It is a difficult task, but here on the board we have survivors. Please give her some good advice, so she can survive with as few scars as possible. According to the survivors on Myspace the program is a normal program which does not prepare the graduates for life, so she will have to work hard to catch up once she will be released. Let us make it easier for her.
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: SUCK IT on July 09, 2010, 04:21:27 AM
    Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
    Or you could do what you can to end up in jail instead, which is a better place.

    This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on fornits, and that's saying a lot.

    Quote from: "Oscar"
    How can we prepare her for the possibility of a haircut, fingering of her private parts

    You are all fucking insane.
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Oscar on July 09, 2010, 04:47:05 AM
    Quote from: "SUCK IT"

    Quote from: "Oscar"
    How can we prepare her for the possibility of a haircut, fingering of her private parts

    You are all fucking insane.
    They did it a CEDU (http://http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.ListAll&friendId=129751497)
    Quote
    "Nancy, take his jeans. XXXX, take off your watch now. And put it with that stuff. Good. Take off your shoes. Socks. Hand them to Nancy. Check him. OK? Alright, good. Now turn around and take off your underwear, I want to make sure you don't have any drugs so bend over."

    My face was flush and the remainder of blood in my veins drooled back into my ankles as I exposed my asshole to Richard.  Shame. I was embarrassed, and frightened, and angry all at once, bent over like that. Richard briefly acquainted himself with my bunghole.  Dizzy and weakened, I thought I almost sensed I wasn't in my body for a stint. I think I witnessed a smug smile while winking at Richard, I was viewing the room from above, or peeping into the scene from the window.
    At Excel Academy they didn't touch the girls but ... (http://http://luxviam.livejournal.com/)
    Quote
    Dylan immediately stood me up, pulled my chin up and looked me straight in the eye, he told me to stand on my own feet. I followed his order. He then pointed to the bathroom, motioning to walk over there where the other girls huddled and to follow my orders.
    I reluctantly accepted. I stood there as a mousey girl named *Mathis held a towel over the bottom half of my naked body, to allow me to have some modest cover. She then whispers to me "Don't worry, It's not as bad as you think it is, We all had to go through this." Her statement pissed me off; but it was comforting. Then Nana's booming voice restored my anxious feelings
    "I want you to stand with your hands over your head and I want you to squat and cough..." her serious expression told me that once again she was not kidding.
    As i cried silently to myself, I did what I was told.
    "Now I want you to jump up and down." she said again when she was satisfied that no drugs fell from my body.
    "No... I am not doing that." I said through my sobs.
    "If you don't than Dylan will assist you, and he won't be nice about it."
    "No, I won't... This is completely illegal. You are not allowed to have a man in here."
    The man replied this time, the first time through this entire ordeal that I actually heard is voice.
    "This is perfectly legal, if you have a problem, grab a law book. Now do what my mother tells you!" (Nana is apparently Dylans Mother-in-Law as well as the Brother in law of C.C., a fucking family circus)
    At this point I just wanted this to all end so I jumped, proceed to the next orders and the aftermath was me, in a jumpsuit, being held on to by four other girls as the drag me to a trailer, also known as the the girls dorm... It would be stupid say we got off on a good foot..

    Insane. I think not!
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: SUCK IT on July 09, 2010, 05:02:13 AM
    OK so let's go ahead and assume those accounts are accurate. An isolated incident happens at one treatment program, however long ago, so it automatically applies to any facility that also treats teens? This is what makes fornits so ridiculous, well besides the advice to send yourself to prison and smear your own shit on the walls, is that you conclude that every single treatment facility is evil because an isolated incident that happened at another one, one not related to the place actually being discussed in any way. This would be like preparing all high schoolers to be shot in the head because there are school shootings. The truth is more than likely they will make it through just fine in the case of both high school and treatment programs. The advice on this forum isn't just stupid, it's dangerous. But I highly doubt anyone is as gullible to believe it anyhow.
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Oscar on July 09, 2010, 07:50:01 AM
    Mr. "Suck it"

    Lets assume that you served in a job where you expected that every kid who entered were screened correctly instead of letting the money decide who enter.

    How would you prevent contraband in your facility?
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Whooter on July 09, 2010, 07:57:21 AM
    Morgan, you will do fine, I had a daughter who attended a school similar to the one you may be going to.  From what I have read here you have more going for you than most girls, you seem to be level headed and know what you want to do with your life.  This place can help you get to your goals if you use it to your advantage.  You will be away from home and in an extremely safe placeÖ. Maybe without all the comforts that you are use to, but you will feel safe and be able to work on yourself.

    I have never met anyone who is happy about spending time in jail or employers who enjoy reading about it.  So I would not take that advice.  You will probably meet those kids who fight the school rules the whole time they are there and then bitch about their time there after graduation and blame the school because they never learned anything.  Its up to you if you want to take advantage of the help available to you.

    There are tattoo artists who work for someone else and are told what to do all day and there are tattoo artists who own their own businesses and make their own rules and answer to no one except themselves.   If you choose to be in and out of jail or living on the streets then most banks will not trust you when it comes time for you to open your own tattoo parlor.  Donít screw up your chances with bad decisions early on which you cannot erase.

     Learn to be comfortable with yourself and who you are and then you can be in control of your own life and be your own boss if you like.  This place can help you reach your goals faster if you take advantage of it.



    ...
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Oscar on July 09, 2010, 08:36:19 AM
    Mr. Whooter

    Academy at Sisters is not Academy at Swift River. At sisters they combine wilderness and the boarding school. The campus her mother toured was the Swift River like campus used once the wilderness phase is over.

    If you should compare the facility with a Aspen like, it looks more like Turn-about Ranch where the campus parents don't see for obvious reasons is called Roundy, but Turn-about is a high-impact short turn program.

    I agree that jail is a poor option.
    Title: Academy At Sisters and Next Step For Success
    Post by: Ursus on July 09, 2010, 10:23:04 AM
    Many of these programs use a more or less separate but ideologically connected organization for indoctrinating the families of these kids into "the process." As examples, WWASP's uses David Gilcrease's Resource Realizations (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=29154), Hyde School uses HAPA (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=24677) and the Hoffman Quadrinity Process (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=26801), etc. etc.

    Bill and Penelope Valentine's Next Step For Success coaching enterprise is also one such organization, generally used by CEDU spin-offs. We know that Benchmark uses them to teach (and "accredit") (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=23560) their "counselors." Apparently, Academy At Sisters also utilizes them to "coach" program parents:

    -------------- ē -------------- ē --------------

    Breaking News
    Posted: Apr 16, 2010 14:10

    Academy at Sisters
    Bend, OR


    Academy At Sisters Offers Parent Coaching Through Next Step For Success (http://http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/publish/AcademyAtSistersBN_100416.shtml)

    Contact:
    Chesley Strowd
    Admissions Director
    Academy at Sisters
    800-910-0412
    http://www.academyatsisters.org (http://www.academyatsisters.org)

    April 16, 2010


    Academy at Sisters continues to examine all facets of the treatment we provide for students and their families to ensure that everyone is an active participant in the process of meaningful change. After several trial months of a few new families working with the ICF Certified Coaches of Next Step for Success, the Parent Coaching has proven to be very successful and an invaluable service to the families we serve. Therefore, we are excited to announce that Academy at Sisters now provides Parent Coaching through Next Step for Success to all incoming families.

    Not only do they serve as an outside support for parents and guardians, but Next Step for Success also helps parents solidify their commitment to their daughter's placement at the Academy at Sisters. Additionally, the Parent Coaches of Next Step for Success maintain a unified front with our program, serving to meet the best interest of the student and parents as a family. Overall, this results in: confident parents who are more aligned with their daughter's treatment goals, parents who are less likely to be manipulated, and consequently, a program with higher student retention rates.

    The ultimate goal for Academy at Sisters is to provide the best possible services for our young women and their families who have entrusted us with their child in need. The extensive experience of the solution-focused Certified Coaches of Next Step for Success is one more piece to the puzzle to help us obtain this goal.

    Academy at Sisters
    http://www.academyatsisters.org (http://www.academyatsisters.org)
    Bend, OR

    Admissions Contact:
    Chesley Strowd
    800-910-0412

    Next Step for Success
    http://www.nextstepforsuccess.com (http://www.nextstepforsuccess.com)
    Redmond, OR
    541-504-5224


    Copyright ©2010, Woodbury Reports, Inc.
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Troll Control on July 09, 2010, 11:15:39 AM
    Quote from: "MorganMDC"
    Well, it's official.
    Just as an update, I'll post it.
    My parents have decided on the Academy.
    It's a go, though I have a while.
    Though this forum seems to have given my parents - especially my father who found a place in Portland that's not a live-in, but my mother has decided it isn't an option... - things to think about, there is no escaping this end result.
    I thank all of you for your help and insights, and if you find anything else, we'll check back here to look at it.

    Well, if I were you, I wouldn't ever again take your parents' word at face value.  Your dad said right in this thread that if you agreed to go to counseling at home, he would not send you away.  

    Anybody who thinks you can "help a family" by breaking up the family and isolating the children from it is an idiot.
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Whooter on July 09, 2010, 01:11:22 PM
    Quote from: "Oscar"
    Mr. Whooter

    Academy at Sisters is not Academy at Swift River. At sisters they combine wilderness and the boarding school. The campus her mother toured was the Swift River like campus used once the wilderness phase is over.

    If you should compare the facility with a Aspen like, it looks more like Turn-about Ranch where the campus parents don't see for obvious reasons is called Roundy, but Turn-about is a high-impact short turn program.

    I agree that jail is a poor option.

    Oscar, Swift River use to have a wilderness component to it but stopped it 5 or more years ago.  Now they utilize SUWS, I believe, for the initial phase.



    ...
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: MorganMDC on July 09, 2010, 01:25:11 PM
    Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
    Quote from: "MorganMDC"
    Well, it's official.
    Just as an update, I'll post it.
    My parents have decided on the Academy.
    It's a go, though I have a while.
    Though this forum seems to have given my parents - especially my father who found a place in Portland that's not a live-in, but my mother has decided it isn't an option... - things to think about, there is no escaping this end result.
    I thank all of you for your help and insights, and if you find anything else, we'll check back here to look at it.

    Well, if I were you, I wouldn't ever again take your parents' word at face value.  Your dad said right in this thread that if you agreed to go to counseling at home, he would not send you away.  

    Anybody who thinks you can "help a family" by breaking up the family and isolating the children from it is an idiot.
    Well, My father and my mother are two completely different entities. On one hand, my father would like to work with me as a human being, a friend, and a daughter, in order to communicate on what is the best option for me, and my future in my mind, as well as his.
    He found me a place, I agreed to it, he was to set up a meeting.
    My mother, on the other hand, thinks that local counseling would not work - without even trying, - believing that all the problems are to big, and thus, the academy should be utilized to get me to where I need to be.
    She communicates as the mother, and the superior, deciding that school meetings, grades, and past records are the deciding factor. Which in short, is confusing, and obnoxious.  :suicide:
    As much as I'd love to think that jail is better than the academy, I have no intention of screwing up my chances at eventually moving on to the UK, and making something of what life I have left when I emerge - which I will, no doubt.
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Awake on July 09, 2010, 01:39:39 PM
    At least you have a chance to know what you are getting into beforehand. This is a pretty funny video, but it wouldn't surprise me if you find this to be reminiscent.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnNSe5XYp6E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnNSe5XYp6E)



    Mind control is not therapy, if that's the situation you are placed in call them out on it.


    viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30423&start=0 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30423&start=0)

    .
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: MorganMDC on July 09, 2010, 01:50:57 PM
    Quote from: "Awake"
    At least you have a chance to know what you are getting into beforehand. This is a pretty funny video, but it wouldn't surprise me if you find this to be reminiscent.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnNSe5XYp6E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnNSe5XYp6E)



    Mind control is not therapy, if that's the situation you are placed in call them out on it.


    http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic. ... 23&start=0 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30423&start=0)

    .
    Haha, lovely,
    I wouldn't be surprised if any sort of "mind control" or "character demeaning" ways of therapy are to be used, but in my opinion, that's just par for the course in most extreme/not so extreme counseling situations.
    Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
    Post by: Ursus on July 09, 2010, 03:42:39 PM
    Quote from: "MorganMDC"
    Quote from: "Ursus"
    Quote from: "MorganMDC"
    Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
    How old are you, Morgan?  Did your mom get roped in by an Educational Consultant?  Or did she get a referral from some other program parent?  How did she come to pick this place?  Where are you located?

    You will get a lot of advice here, but DO NOT follow any advice that directs you to commit criminal acts, as this will only steel your mother's resolve to send you away and get you involved with Johny Law.  I DO NOT advise this course of action.  A few of us have your mother's contact information and will try to reason with her on your behalf.  Unfortunately, there isn't much else we can do from here.

    Please answer the above questions and contact Mr. Elberg ASAP.
    I am fifteen years old. She was roped in by both. She picked it, because it is the only option. Oregon. Beaverton, Oregon.
    Her e-mail is of course the best way to reason with her, not only due to phone issues, but because direct abuse after hang up is not pleasent.
    Might that EdCon be Dore Frances? She is designated as the "Mayor of Bend" on Merchant Circle (most number of connections):

      (http://http://media.merchantcircle.com/19473944/Dore%200809%204_thumb.jpeg)
      Horizon Family Solutions, LLC (http://http://www.merchantcircle.com/business/Horizon.Family.Solutions.LLC.541-312-4422)
      1145 NW Knoxville Blvd
      Bend, OR 97701
      541-312-4422[/list]
      Wow. Look at all I have to look forward to.
      Apparently there is a "crisis move in situation" so I have until Friday.
      Ursus, I am not sure.
      All I know is of a "Chealsea". The name sounds familiar, she possibly mentioned it in passing.
      Might that have been CHESLEY, as in Chesley Strowd? She's the Admissions Director at Academy at Sisters...
      Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
      Post by: MorganMDC on July 09, 2010, 03:44:53 PM
      Quote from: "Ursus"
      Quote from: "MorganMDC"
      Quote from: "Ursus"
      Quote from: "MorganMDC"
      Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
      How old are you, Morgan?  Did your mom get roped in by an Educational Consultant?  Or did she get a referral from some other program parent?  How did she come to pick this place?  Where are you located?

      You will get a lot of advice here, but DO NOT follow any advice that directs you to commit criminal acts, as this will only steel your mother's resolve to send you away and get you involved with Johny Law.  I DO NOT advise this course of action.  A few of us have your mother's contact information and will try to reason with her on your behalf.  Unfortunately, there isn't much else we can do from here.

      Please answer the above questions and contact Mr. Elberg ASAP.
      I am fifteen years old. She was roped in by both. She picked it, because it is the only option. Oregon. Beaverton, Oregon.
      Her e-mail is of course the best way to reason with her, not only due to phone issues, but because direct abuse after hang up is not pleasent.
      Might that EdCon be Dore Frances? She is designated as the "Mayor of Bend" on Merchant Circle (most number of connections):

        (http://http://media.merchantcircle.com/19473944/Dore%200809%204_thumb.jpeg)
        Horizon Family Solutions, LLC (http://http://www.merchantcircle.com/business/Horizon.Family.Solutions.LLC.541-312-4422)
        1145 NW Knoxville Blvd
        Bend, OR 97701
        541-312-4422[/list]
        Wow. Look at all I have to look forward to.
        Apparently there is a "crisis move in situation" so I have until Friday.
        Ursus, I am not sure.
        All I know is of a "Chealsea". The name sounds familiar, she possibly mentioned it in passing.
        Might that have been CHESLEY, as in Chesley Strowd? She's the Admissions Director at Academy at Sisters...
        Yes, yes. Chesley.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Nihilanthic on July 09, 2010, 04:50:07 PM
        Quote from: "MorganMDC"
        Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
        Quote from: "MorganMDC"
        Well, it's official.
        Just as an update, I'll post it.
        My parents have decided on the Academy.
        It's a go, though I have a while.
        Though this forum seems to have given my parents - especially my father who found a place in Portland that's not a live-in, but my mother has decided it isn't an option... - things to think about, there is no escaping this end result.
        I thank all of you for your help and insights, and if you find anything else, we'll check back here to look at it.

        Well, if I were you, I wouldn't ever again take your parents' word at face value.  Your dad said right in this thread that if you agreed to go to counseling at home, he would not send you away.  

        Anybody who thinks you can "help a family" by breaking up the family and isolating the children from it is an idiot.
        Well, My father and my mother are two completely different entities. On one hand, my father would like to work with me as a human being, a friend, and a daughter, in order to communicate on what is the best option for me, and my future in my mind, as well as his.
        He found me a place, I agreed to it, he was to set up a meeting.
        My mother, on the other hand, thinks that local counseling would not work - without even trying, - believing that all the problems are to big, and thus, the academy should be utilized to get me to where I need to be.
        She communicates as the mother, and the superior, deciding that school meetings, grades, and past records are the deciding factor. Which in short, is confusing, and obnoxious.  :suicide:
        As much as I'd love to think that jail is better than the academy, I have no intention of screwing up my chances at eventually moving on to the UK, and making something of what life I have left when I emerge - which I will, no doubt.

        As depressing as this is, you clearly know who is right and who is very much wrong right now.

        I just hope your dad reads this, his balls drop again, and he saves his own daughter from being put through hell 24/7 for months to years. Honest to god, how whipped can you be, no matter how long you've been in the doghouse or on the couch, to let someone dictate to you "I am going to not even try what you recommend, spend $5K a month of your money, and send your child away where neither of us can contact her and anything on earth could happen to her."

        Hell I don't think even whooter can go with such a situation.
        Title: Chesley Strowd
        Post by: Ursus on July 09, 2010, 04:57:40 PM
        Quote from: "MorganMDC"
        Quote from: "Ursus"
        Quote from: "MorganMDC"
        Wow. Look at all I have to look forward to.
        Apparently there is a "crisis move in situation" so I have until Friday.
        Ursus, I am not sure.
        All I know is of a "Chealsea". The name sounds familiar, she possibly mentioned it in passing.
        Might that have been CHESLEY, as in Chesley Strowd? She's the Admissions Director at Academy at Sisters...
        Yes, yes. Chesley.
        Something y'all oughta be aware of, and that is that Ms. Strowd would appear to being quite invested in the aforementioned (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30744&p=369104#p369104) Next Step For Success parent coaching endeavor.

        It's unclear, from the following (~51 minute, mp3) interview with EdCon Dore Frances, whether that means that she herself, or that the Academy at Sisters, or both ... is certified to offer these parenting coaching seminars. I was only able to listen to the first part; it's possible that ambiguity may be cleared up later in the interview; emphases below as per the original:

        -------------- ē -------------- ē --------------

        Monday, March 1, 2010
        "What is the importance of working with girls in an all girls academy?" (http://http://www.latalkradio.com/Dore.php)

        Special Guests: Chesley Strowd, Admissions Director, Dr. Julie Schneider, Ph.D., Clinical Director of Academy of Sisters.

        The Academy at Sisters is a small exclusive at-risk girls' therapeutic boarding school for young women ages 13 Ė 18, providing emotional, behavioral and academic services.

        Discussion topics include: What sets Academy at Sisters apart from other all girls programs? What specific services are available for students at Academy at Sisters?  

        Chesley Strowd has seven years of experience working closely with families and professionals in several residential treatment centers.  Dr. Julie Schneider, Ph.D. has approximately 15 years of experience working in a variety of settings.

        ó> Play (http://http://www.latalkradio.com/images/Dore-030110.mp3)
        Title: Re: Academy At Sisters and Next Step For Success
        Post by: Ursus on July 09, 2010, 05:06:08 PM
        Something else y'all oughta know about Next Step For Success, which for some reason nobody is picking up on, is that it is founded and run by ex-CEDU execs and staff.

        This would certainly comport with why Academy at Sisters is on CEDU's Friends of Families with Children in Crisis Foundation (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30744&p=368404#p368404).
        Title: Re: Academy At Sisters and Next Step For Success
        Post by: Awake on July 09, 2010, 05:38:46 PM
        Quote from: "Ursus"
        Something else y'all oughta know about Next Step For Success, which for some reason nobody is picking up on, is that it is founded and run by ex-CEDU execs and staff.

        This would certainly comport with why Academy at Sisters is on CEDU's Friends of Families with Children in Crisis Foundation (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30744&p=368404#p368404).



        Yup it comes from Cedu alright. Brandi Elliot, team leader at Cedu, and arrogant executer of attack therapy, of which I had the pleasure of experiencing first hand. Though I didn't get the worst of her rants. Ugh hope you don't have issues with throwing up, she could be very descriptive. Does not mix well with psycho drama.


        Ö  a peice of advice to Morgan.

        Be on heightened alert for situations that are pushing for self disclosure.  Very likely they will be engaging you with your peers in situations where you will be encouraged to open up, or challenge you for being closed off.  Donít disclose anything about yourself that you would feel uncomfortable talking about in your current social life.  If you feel a pressure to disclose in ways that threaten your boundaries tell them that they are not being considerate of that.  Even if there are things that might be helpful for you to talk about, be careful. If you are not truly comfortable disclosing to them, a true opportunity to heal may be negated by having to accept things you donít believe about yourself as part of the process, tell them that too, the situation precludes you from an opportunity to heal in this way.  I wouldnít be surprised if you find that in many cases they are really just growing or creating problems that wouldnít result if the Ďstudentsí were able to develop without such continuous focus on them,  to putting more energy in instead of less, and encourage an impossible fight between you and your problems that you donít ultimately beat.  

        What are your issues? Are you entirely happy with yourself?  What have you done that you donít feel good about?  What are the hardest things youíve had to deal with in your life?  No one is perfect Morgan, we all have problems, maybe yours is trust. Do you have issues opening up about this stuff? Where do those trust issues come from?  ÖÖ.  Sorry, just offering a lead in to this game, but my guess is youíll be surprised at how open some people get with their Ďissuesí, just donít beat the competition I guess. Good luck.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: MorganMDC on July 09, 2010, 05:48:34 PM
        Quote from: "Nihilanthic"
        Quote from: "MorganMDC"
        Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
        Quote from: "MorganMDC"
        Well, it's official.
        Just as an update, I'll post it.
        My parents have decided on the Academy.
        It's a go, though I have a while.
        Though this forum seems to have given my parents - especially my father who found a place in Portland that's not a live-in, but my mother has decided it isn't an option... - things to think about, there is no escaping this end result.
        I thank all of you for your help and insights, and if you find anything else, we'll check back here to look at it.

        Well, if I were you, I wouldn't ever again take your parents' word at face value.  Your dad said right in this thread that if you agreed to go to counseling at home, he would not send you away.  

        Anybody who thinks you can "help a family" by breaking up the family and isolating the children from it is an idiot.
        Well, My father and my mother are two completely different entities. On one hand, my father would like to work with me as a human being, a friend, and a daughter, in order to communicate on what is the best option for me, and my future in my mind, as well as his.
        He found me a place, I agreed to it, he was to set up a meeting.
        My mother, on the other hand, thinks that local counseling would not work - without even trying, - believing that all the problems are to big, and thus, the academy should be utilized to get me to where I need to be.
        She communicates as the mother, and the superior, deciding that school meetings, grades, and past records are the deciding factor. Which in short, is confusing, and obnoxious.  :suicide:
        As much as I'd love to think that jail is better than the academy, I have no intention of screwing up my chances at eventually moving on to the UK, and making something of what life I have left when I emerge - which I will, no doubt.

        As depressing as this is, you clearly know who is right and who is very much wrong right now.

        I just hope your dad reads this, his balls drop again, and he saves his own daughter from being put through hell 24/7 for months to years. Honest to god, how whipped can you be, no matter how long you've been in the doghouse or on the couch, to let someone dictate to you "I am going to not even try what you recommend, spend $5K a month of your money, and send your child away where neither of us can contact her and anything on earth could happen to her."

        Hell I don't think even whooter can go with such a situation.



        I'm sure he will read this. He's obviously unhappy about the entire situation, and it obviously rips him apart. In his mind, however, he believes it to is the right course - that or my mothers just explained the tour in a fantasticly gorgeous manor, and thus he's okay with it at some point.
        Will he stop this from happening?
        I doubt it.


        Quote from: "Awake"
        Quote from: "Ursus"
        Something else y'all oughta know about Next Step For Success, which for some reason nobody is picking up on, is that it is founded and run by ex-CEDU execs and staff.

        This would certainly comport with why Academy at Sisters is on CEDU's Friends of Families with Children in Crisis Foundation (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30744&p=368404#p368404).





        Yup it comes from Cedu alright. Brandi Elliot, team leader at Cedu, and arrogant executer of attack therapy, of which I had the pleasure of experiencing first hand. Though I didn't get the worst of her rants. Ugh hope you don't have issues with throwing up, she could be very descriptive. Does not mix well with psycho drama.


        Ö  a peice of advice to Morgan.

        Be on heightened alert for situations that are pushing for self disclosure.  Very likely they will be engaging you with your peers in situations where you will be encouraged to open up, or challenge you for being closed off.  Donít disclose anything about yourself that you would feel uncomfortable talking about in your current social life.  If you feel a pressure to disclose in ways that threaten your boundaries tell them that they are not being considerate of that.  Even if there are things that might be helpful for you to talk about, be careful. If you are not truly comfortable disclosing to them, a true opportunity to heal may be negated by having to accept things you donít believe about yourself as part of the process, tell them that too, the situation precludes you from an opportunity to heal in this way.  I wouldnít be surprised if you find that in many cases they are really just growing or creating problems that wouldnít result if the Ďstudentsí were able to develop without such continuous focus on them,  to putting more energy in instead of less, and encourage an impossible fight between you and your problems that you donít ultimately beat.  

        What are your issues? Are you entirely happy with yourself?  What have you done that you donít feel good about?  What are the hardest things youíve had to deal with in your life?  No one is perfect Morgan, we all have problems, maybe yours is trust. Do you have issues opening up about this stuff? Where do those trust issues come from?  ÖÖ.  Sorry, just offering a lead in to this game, but my guess is youíll be surprised at how open some people get with their Ďissuesí, just donít beat the competition I guess. Good luck.


        Just as in the past I have not disclosed any information to teachers, parents, or "concerned" counselors that I have not gotten along with, I will not here.
        I don't agree with, or believe in counseling, because of what I've read, seen, and otherwise, but if it was local counseling, I'd cooperate, and do what was necessary to complete it, and get my parents monies worth out of it.
        However, I am not very pleased with the Academy being the choice.
        I will still pack my things, and walk with no fight into the program, but what happens when I get there is another story.
        How much pleasantries and insights to my "problems" the staff get, is dependent on how well the place treats me as a human, not another dollar amount.
        I will not disclose my personal thoughts to these people.
        Not for all the bribes in the world.
        Thanks for the luck.
        From the look of things - no contact with friends, who to me are like family, for nine months, no leaving the place to go anywhere, for nine months, - I'll need it.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 09, 2010, 05:49:49 PM
        It's not going to be "nine months", Morgan. It's going to be "until the money runs out". Bet on it.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Ursus on July 09, 2010, 05:54:25 PM
        From what I can tell, Academy at Sisters also seems to niche market to adoptive families. Not sure why or how they are deemed experts in the field, but it *is* a market that they appear to actively court... Allegedly ?30% of their students are adopted?
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 09, 2010, 05:58:05 PM
        Quote from: "Ursus"
        From what I can tell, Academy at Sisters also seems to niche market to adoptive families. Not sure why or how they are deemed experts in the field, but it *is* a market that they appear to actively court... Allegedly ?30% of their students are adopted?

        Oh hell, CALO's the same way. It has nothing to do with "special problems of adoptees" and everything to do with the adoptive "parents" having buyer's remorse when the kid starts growing up. The reason they market to adoptive families is because adoptive parents are more likely to hand over the kids.
        Title: Re: Academy At Sisters and Next Step For Success
        Post by: Whooter on July 09, 2010, 06:04:17 PM
        Quote from: "Ursus"
        Something else y'all oughta know about Next Step For Success, which for some reason nobody is picking up on, is that it is founded and run by ex-CEDU execs and staff.

        This would certainly comport with why Academy at Sisters is on CEDU's Friends of Families with Children in Crisis Foundation (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30744&p=368404#p368404).


        Friends and Family is a foundation to help families financially and the other "Next Step for Success" is a coaching firm for parents and families.  Neither one of these places dictates policy at Academy at Sisters and are not even related to the school.  I dont see how there is any red flag at all.  I would be willing to bet that the majority of people who worked for CEDU would continue to work in the field after they closed because that is what they do for a living.  It is very natural to stay in the business move on to different programs,  But it doesnt mean that the programs they work for become CEDU based.



        The Foundation's mission is to assist families in achieving stable and productive family lives by ensuring that the necessary funds are available to enable their children to graduate from participating schools and programs.
        ABOUT THE FOUNDATION


        The Friends of Families with Children in Crisis Foundation, originally founded in 1998 as The Friends of CEDU Foundation, is a non-profit corporation recognized as a Section 501(c)(3) charitable organization by the Internal Revenue Service.

        Established as a separate, independent self-governing organization, The Foundation is managed and directed by volunteer trustees who are alumni parents.




        ...
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Whooter on July 09, 2010, 06:08:15 PM
        Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
        It's not going to be "nine months", Morgan. It's going to be "until the money runs out". Bet on it.

        When we talked about the length of stay they gave us a window of plus or minus 2 months and all the kids in my daughters peer group graduated within that time frame.  So I would say that they would stick close to the nine month mark.
        But if your parents stop paying then of course they cant keep you there for free and would send you home.



        ...
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: MorganMDC on July 09, 2010, 06:10:06 PM
        Quote from: "Whooter"
        Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
        It's not going to be "nine months", Morgan. It's going to be "until the money runs out". Bet on it.

        When we talked about the length of stay they gave us a window of plus or minus 2 months and all the kids in my daughters peer group graduated within that time frame.  So I would say that they would stick close to the nine month mark.
        But if your parents stop paying then of course they cant keep you there for free and would send you home.



        ...
        I believe I was misunderstood.
        Nine months is the length - minimum, - of level one, and the time you cannot speak to friends.
        Fourteen months minimum on your overall stay.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 09, 2010, 06:13:50 PM
        Do some math, Morgan. Fourteen months minimum on the overall stay. The "deal" (Ha!) was that your parents would send you to this place for a year and then you'd go to the UK the next school year, right?

        "Fourteen months" doesn't work with that.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Whooter on July 09, 2010, 06:15:48 PM
        Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
        Quote from: "Ursus"
        From what I can tell, Academy at Sisters also seems to niche market to adoptive families. Not sure why or how they are deemed experts in the field, but it *is* a market that they appear to actively court... Allegedly ?30% of their students are adopted?

        Oh hell, CALO's the same way. It has nothing to do with "special problems of adoptees" and everything to do with the adoptive "parents" having buyer's remorse when the kid starts growing up. The reason they market to adoptive families is because adoptive parents are more likely to hand over the kids.


        A few thoughts here:
        Actually adoptive kids have more struggles than most kids because they have the whole "Why was I rejected by my biological parents?" question hovering over them.  "Why do other kids get love and acceptance from their parents and I did not?"  Many of these kids blame themselves....  Parenting these children takes a little extra patience and love.  So its easy to see if you looked at a cross section of children those with the little extra burden would be more apt to need extra help.  So I would gather that there would be a higher percentage of adoptive children in programs than there would be in say the public schools system.



        ...
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Whooter on July 09, 2010, 06:18:33 PM
        Quote from: "MorganMDC"
        Quote from: "Whooter"
        Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
        It's not going to be "nine months", Morgan. It's going to be "until the money runs out". Bet on it.

        When we talked about the length of stay they gave us a window of plus or minus 2 months and all the kids in my daughters peer group graduated within that time frame.  So I would say that they would stick close to the nine month mark.
        But if your parents stop paying then of course they cant keep you there for free and would send you home.



        ...
        I believe I was misunderstood.
        Nine months is the length - minimum, - of level one, and the time you cannot speak to friends.
        Fourteen months minimum on your overall stay.

        My daughters was 14 months (plus or minus 2 months) or 12 to 16 months.  Some of this is directly influenced by how hard the child works and what their individual needs are.



        ...
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 09, 2010, 06:20:26 PM
        ...is he still talking?

        (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/download/file.php?id=530)
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Whooter on July 09, 2010, 06:35:23 PM
        Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
        ...is he still talking?

        Pile, its funny how that analogy keeps mystifying you and you still maintain the belief that if you hang around with a gay person long enough you will become gay yourself.  It just doesn't happen that way.



        ...
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters, industry marketing hoopla
        Post by: Ursus on July 09, 2010, 07:41:34 PM
        Quote from: "Whooter"
        Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
        Quote from: "Ursus"
        From what I can tell, Academy at Sisters also seems to niche market to adoptive families. Not sure why or how they are deemed experts in the field, but it *is* a market that they appear to actively court... Allegedly ?30% of their students are adopted?
        Oh hell, CALO's the same way. It has nothing to do with "special problems of adoptees" and everything to do with the adoptive "parents" having buyer's remorse when the kid starts growing up. The reason they market to adoptive families is because adoptive parents are more likely to hand over the kids.
        A few thoughts here:
        Actually adoptive kids have more struggles than most kids because they have the whole "Why was I rejected by my biological parents?" question hovering over them.  "Why do other kids get love and acceptance from their parents and I did not?"  Many of these kids blame themselves....  Parenting these children takes a little extra patience and love.  So its easy to see if you looked at a cross section of children those with the little extra burden would be more apt to need extra help.  So I would gather that there would be a higher percentage of adoptive children in programs than there would be in say the public schools system.
        What you say is quite true, Whooter. Yet it does not in any way negate my understated point, which Pile picked up to some degree on, and which is that these difficulties make adoptive families all the more vulnerable to industry marketing pressures and, indeed, scams.

        Lately it's been "attachment issues" and "high-functioning autistics," in previous years it's been "oppositional defiant disorder" and "blended families," and "adoption issues" has always been a perennial favorite. Of course, this doesn't even begin to touch the drug-war hysteria which, even now, manages to snag a few overly sheltered types.
        Title: Re: Academy At Sisters and Next Step For Success
        Post by: Ursus on July 09, 2010, 07:51:38 PM
        Quote from: "Awake"
        Quote from: "Ursus"
        Something else y'all oughta know about Next Step For Success, which for some reason nobody is picking up on, is that it is founded and run by ex-CEDU execs and staff.

        This would certainly comport with why Academy at Sisters is on CEDU's Friends of Families with Children in Crisis Foundation (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30744&p=368404#p368404).
        Yup it comes from Cedu alright. Brandi Elliot, team leader at Cedu, and arrogant executer of attack therapy, of which I had the pleasure of experiencing first hand. Though I didn't get the worst of her rants. Ugh hope you don't have issues with throwing up, she could be very descriptive. Does not mix well with psycho drama.
        Brandi Elliot is with the Friends of Families with Children in Crisis Foundation, probably along with Jim Powell, if I recall correctly.

        However, the organization which will probably impact Morgan's parents more directly will be the Next Step For Success parent coaching seminars. Former CEDU personnel involved with that include:

        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: SUCK IT on July 09, 2010, 07:52:42 PM
        So far in this thread the advice from fornits has been to a 15 year old girl faced with a treatment program without a single complaint of abuse includes:

        - Run away from home and live on the streets

        - Commit a crime to be sent to jail, because jail is supposedly better than treatment

        - Stab the person who attempts to take you to the facility, and send yourself to jail for murder or attempted murder

        - Cease all contact with your parents

        - Shit your pants and smear it on yourself and the walls of the treatment facility

        - Pretend you're made of rubber ,and don't move, just lay on the floor of the treatment center like an upset two year old toddler would do

        - Prepare yourself to be "fingered in the asshole" because programs supposedly do that looking for drugs during the initial search

        And they wonder why nobody takes them seriously? Including these parents, they saw right through the fornits propoganda and can't understand why people see them as crazed extremists.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Awake on July 09, 2010, 08:12:51 PM
        Quote from: "Whooter"
        Quote from: "Awake"
        To Morgan, and her parents, but especially you

        I donít know if this decision is final or not, but what I am hearing is that they might really be willing to work with you on a reasonable alternative.  From what is being said there is a very common power struggle going on in the family dynamic. Everyone needs a sense of control over their lives, and if you are willing to give up a little of it, you may not lose it all.  Your parents are expressing that this choice IS their last option based on your behavior, and so has become a situation where you are forcing them to force you to cooperate.  If you are made to go to this program without resolving this power issue with your parents this vicious cycle might escalate in worse ways than you can imagine. You canít Ďwiní, you really canít, and whatever alternative they are open to is a good one.  I know you canít just do away with any resentment or bitterness over what has been going on in your family, but if the control tactics come to the point where you have to go to this place under the current circumstances this might become a seething underlying issue that damages your family relationship beyond repair.  

        I heard one of your parents say they are not entirely right either, and maybe that makes it hard to submit to the choices they want to give you, but if you are willing to put the right and wrong aside for now and just do it you will avoid a far more painful experience in which you will have to submit to a situation you disagree with much more, and you will submit even if you have to learn to fake the most genuine of emotions.  It is a unique kind of suffering that you truly do not want, much harder than what it will take for you if you give in now.  It may even be better for you in the end as far as getting what you want out of your family relationship, at least you will maintain a position of more equal footing when you are working through things with them rather than being put at the bottom of the ladder.  Someday you will find that you are going to want their support in your endeavors, and maybe even want them in your life as equals and friends, but if the situation gets to a point where you are put in a position of powerlessness it may be impossible to accept that support without also accepting their domination of you.  You may get married someday, or accomplish things that you will want their blessing for.  That blessing may always carry with it that denunciation of you.

        I hope you all can give this one last chance to work it out.  You may have to live with unresolved anger  and it may be difficult to find a way to get along for awhile, but if you can turn things around now and get through it, IT WILL BE WORTH IT.  You are always going to be a family, you will never be able to avoid that even if it becomes forever associated with animosity and interactions that disqualify each other.  If you, Morgan, canít make a really tough move to cooperate with your parents now, you may never come back from this.  

        .

        Very nicely stated, Awake.  Morgan, you should consider those wise words and try to look at those as the best path to get you to age 18.  If you can resolve this locally, working with your parents and with a counselor you will be better off.



        ...



        There are a lot of voices on fornits.  I think my advice is sound and thereís  no reason to influence this family to go to measures that are unwarranted.  It sounds to me like they are at the right place with each other to make a compromise that respects everyone.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 09, 2010, 08:14:54 PM
        Quote from: "Awake"
        There are a lot of voices on fornits.  I think my advice is sound and thereís  no reason to influence this family to go to measures that are unwarranted.  It sounds to me like they are at the right place with each other to make a compromise that respects everyone.

        You think wrong; mommy's eating programmie bullshit by the bucketload, daddy doesn't have the balls to say no so is giving his daughter lots of little things to try to make up for it, and daughter still has no real idea what she's in for.
        Title: Re: Academy At Sisters and Next Step For Success
        Post by: Whooter on July 09, 2010, 08:28:49 PM
        Quote from: "Ursus"
        Quote from: "Awake"
        Quote from: "Ursus"
        Something else y'all oughta know about Next Step For Success, which for some reason nobody is picking up on, is that it is founded and run by ex-CEDU execs and staff.

        This would certainly comport with why Academy at Sisters is on CEDU's Friends of Families with Children in Crisis Foundation (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30744&p=368404#p368404).
        Yup it comes from Cedu alright. Brandi Elliot, team leader at Cedu, and arrogant executer of attack therapy, of which I had the pleasure of experiencing first hand. Though I didn't get the worst of her rants. Ugh hope you don't have issues with throwing up, she could be very descriptive. Does not mix well with psycho drama.
        Brandi Elliot is with the Friends of Families with Children in Crisis Foundation, probably along with Jim Powell, if I recall correctly.

        However, the organization which will probably impact Morgan's parents more directly will be the Next Step For Success parent coaching seminars. Former CEDU personnel involved with that include:

        • Penelope Valentine - RMA?
        • Bill Valentine - parents' workshops, RMA
        • Vicki Jones - ?
        • Barbara Cass - counselor at ? in 1976, co-founder of Cascade School

        I can see that you may be upset with them personally.  But that doesnt effect how Academy at Sisters operates.  Its important to keep that distinction.

        I am sure if they tried to use the confrontation therapy on the parents they wouldnt go for that at all and would hang up the phone and ask for their money back, so I am sure they dont use it anymore.

        ...
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Paul St. John on July 09, 2010, 08:33:23 PM
        I remember there was a post, where the dad something like  "if she would agree to go to regular counseling,, we wouldn t send her to the program, I am sure"

        I thought that the "I am sure" part was funny, because that told me that it really isn t up to him, or at least he doesn t think so.

        It appears that mommy is all for it.  If you go on the tour, that's pretty much it.. They got ya from there.

        I stick by what I said originally.. Whether she goes to the program or not, she has got to get to 18, and get the fuck out.  My understanding is that she is a compulsive liar, and she has some other bad habits too.. much worse then bad grades.  My guess would be that her parent's troubled relationship has a real lot to do with this.

        I also agree that the girl still doesnt know what she is getting  into, and she won t until she s there. That s just the way it is.

        However, I do also think, that you catch more flies with honey, and I don t think that hurling insults at these people or talking to them like they are idiots will get them to come around, even if it does make you feel good.  You may be right about a lot of it, but if it doesn t work, what is the fucking point?

        I strongly dislike "Suck_It", but he makes some points. I would find it hard as a parent to take most of the posters seriously- no offense.

        This girl is not going to the straights or elan of the 70's, and if she were, I may recomend that she run, or perhaps, even choose jail.
        But under these particular circumstances that is irrational.

        Although " Suck_It", it is in fact possible that they might strip search her, and even search her ass for drugs.  Some places still do that shit.

        And sometimes violence even can work, a friend of mine got out of a treatment center not too long ago, by flipping the fuck out, and threatening in detail, to beat the living shit out of everyone in there, on like his first day  They were terrified of him, and the short story is, he got out, and went about his life.  Telling this story, it doesn t sound very believable, but it is the truth.  He had been in a center when he was a kid, and though he is now, an adult, when they started using all the terms, and shit, he completely lost it, and became a totally different person.  All he knew was that he had to get out.

        and the son of a bitch did.. LOL

        But he is an adult of course..

        all in all, I think that the suggestions listed by suck it, basically make the people here appear just as he said- like crazy extremists.

        Paul
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Paul St. John on July 09, 2010, 08:39:45 PM
        All the same, a program is not the solution.  You are making a mountain out of a mole hill!
        Title: Re: Academy At Sisters and Next Step For Success
        Post by: Ursus on July 09, 2010, 08:45:47 PM
        Quote from: "Whooter"
        Quote from: "Ursus"
        Quote from: "Awake"
        Quote from: "Ursus"
        Something else y'all oughta know about Next Step For Success, which for some reason nobody is picking up on, is that it is founded and run by ex-CEDU execs and staff.

        This would certainly comport with why Academy at Sisters is on CEDU's Friends of Families with Children in Crisis Foundation (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30744&p=368404#p368404).
        Yup it comes from Cedu alright. Brandi Elliot, team leader at Cedu, and arrogant executer of attack therapy, of which I had the pleasure of experiencing first hand. Though I didn't get the worst of her rants. Ugh hope you don't have issues with throwing up, she could be very descriptive. Does not mix well with psycho drama.
        Brandi Elliot is with the Friends of Families with Children in Crisis Foundation, probably along with Jim Powell, if I recall correctly.

        However, the organization which will probably impact Morgan's parents more directly will be the Next Step For Success parent coaching seminars. Former CEDU personnel involved with that include:

        • Penelope Valentine - RMA?
        • Bill Valentine - parents' workshops, RMA
        • Vicki Jones - ?
        • Barbara Cass - counselor at ? in 1976, co-founder of Cascade School
        I can see that you may be upset with them personally.  But that doesnt effect how Academy at Sisters operates.  Its important to keep that distinction.

        I am sure if they tried to use the confrontation therapy on the parents they wouldnt go for that at all and would hang up the phone and ask for their money back, so I am sure they dont use it anymore.
        Well... since I wasn't upset, but merely happily investigating, it's curious that you start slinging the "oh, you're just upset" charges at this point in the conversation, Whooter.

        Rather, it would appear that my research has upset you, lol. This song and dance is becoming quite familiar to me at this point...

        Back to the more pertinent issues at hand...

        An update for the line-up above: I have heard back from another poster here that Vicki Jones was, in fact, also at Rocky Mountain Academy. It's quite possible that they all were at RMA, given the obscure reference to a 1976 position as a counselor "at a therapeutic boarding school that was a pioneer in working with troubled teens" made re. Barbara Cass, along with the fact that she spent about 20 years or so at Cascade School (founded by CEDU-ites).
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Whooter on July 09, 2010, 09:10:28 PM
        Ursus, Dont take it so personally... I was referring to this comment:

        Yup it comes from Cedu alright. Brandi Elliot, team leader at Cedu, and arrogant executer of attack therapy, of which I had the pleasure of experiencing first hand. Though I didn't get the worst of her rants. Ugh hope you don't have issues with throwing up, she could be very descriptive. Does not mix well with psycho drama.

        It seems people are upset over these people and what they did in the past.  But they dont dictate policy to the Academy at Sisters.  I think that is the topic here.  I understand the whole cedu thing (at least partially) and how it upsets people, but this is a different program.



        ...
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Ursus on July 09, 2010, 09:22:42 PM
        Quote from: "Whooter"
        Ursus, Dont take it so personally... I was referring to this comment:

        Yup it comes from Cedu alright. Brandi Elliot, team leader at Cedu, and arrogant executer of attack therapy, of which I had the pleasure of experiencing first hand. Though I didn't get the worst of her rants. Ugh hope you don't have issues with throwing up, she could be very descriptive. Does not mix well with psycho drama.

        It seems people are upset over these people and what they did in the past.  But they dont dictate policy to the Academy at Sisters.  I think that is the topic here.  I understand the whole cedu thing (at least partially) and how it upsets people, but this is a different program.
        AH! But then how would I know that, since you responded to my post?  :D
        Title: Bill Valentine and Next Step For Success, credit to Wasserma
        Post by: Ursus on July 09, 2010, 09:27:53 PM
        Fwiw, a previous comment from another thread re. Bill Valentine's influence in CEDU, bold emphasis added:


        Originally posted (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=23560&p=331035#p331035) on 26 Apr 2009:
        Quote from: "psy"
        As far as I know, the Benchmark staff never received any sort of actual coaching license from the ICF (not that a "life coach certificate" means anything, as evidenced by penn and teller's bullshit episode on the subject). All they did was take 30 hours of coursework which they seem to have invented a fancy abbreviation for ("ACSTH Certified") which stands for "Approved Coach Specific Training Hours".

        Also, Bill Valentine, if you remember correctly, was good buddies with Mel Wasserman at CEDU. He helped develop the parent seminars with Mel (from est and LifeSpring), according to a phone conversation I had with Penelope. Their website used to credit Mel Wasserman for their phillosophy until I pointed it out, after which it was promptly deleted (but I have a screenshot).
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Whooter on July 09, 2010, 09:39:20 PM
        Quote from: "Ursus"
        Quote from: "Whooter"
        Ursus, Dont take it so personally... I was referring to this comment:

        Yup it comes from Cedu alright. Brandi Elliot, team leader at Cedu, and arrogant executer of attack therapy, of which I had the pleasure of experiencing first hand. Though I didn't get the worst of her rants. Ugh hope you don't have issues with throwing up, she could be very descriptive. Does not mix well with psycho drama.

        It seems people are upset over these people and what they did in the past.  But they dont dictate policy to the Academy at Sisters.  I think that is the topic here.  I understand the whole cedu thing (at least partially) and how it upsets people, but this is a different program.
        AH! But then how would I know that, since you responded to my post?  :D

        I have a tendency to respond to whatever is written in the post (all responses)  because it reads better to me.  I agree it would have been clearer (to you) if I went back to find Awakes thread and respond to that independently.



        ...
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Awake on July 09, 2010, 09:52:24 PM
        Quote from: "Whooter"
        Quote from: "Ursus"
        Quote from: "Whooter"
        Ursus, Dont take it so personally... I was referring to this comment:

        Yup it comes from Cedu alright. Brandi Elliot, team leader at Cedu, and arrogant executer of attack therapy, of which I had the pleasure of experiencing first hand. Though I didn't get the worst of her rants. Ugh hope you don't have issues with throwing up, she could be very descriptive. Does not mix well with psycho drama.

        It seems people are upset over these people and what they did in the past.  But they dont dictate policy to the Academy at Sisters.  I think that is the topic here.  I understand the whole cedu thing (at least partially) and how it upsets people, but this is a different program.
        AH! But then how would I know that, since you responded to my post?  :D

        I have a tendency to respond to whatever is written in the post (all responses)  because it reads better to me.  I agree it would have been clearer (to you) if I went back to find Awakes thread and respond to that independently.



        ...



        I can see past the individual behavior. In fact, despite your focus, from my memory she was acting entirely within the proper guidelines suggested to the staff by cedu. The problem is that the program itself prescribed abusive situations. No one seems to contend that here. If the staff doesnít come out and speak against it themselves should we assume they understand what they were doing was wrong? Iíd agree that this should become a standard within the industry so we can be sure the wrong influences are filtered out.
        Title: Mel Wasserman's influence on the Valentines
        Post by: Ursus on July 09, 2010, 10:21:32 PM
        Fwiw, another previous comment, this time re. Mel Wasserman's influence on the Valentines and their current coaching endeavors. Bill Valentine has another personal coaching enterprise called EverHigher.com (http://http://everhigher.com/). Apparently a reference to Wasserman was originally on this site (not sure if this is the same instance as noted above (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30744&p=369173#p369173)); bold emphasis added:


        Originally posted (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=23560#p288019) on 12 Oct 2007:
        Quote from: "try another castle"
        Quote from: "psy"
        Quote from: "try another castle"
        Quote
        We are especially indebted to:  Mel Wasserman, the founder of emotional-growth education, for providing us with the experience of the power of transparent personal relationships;
        This is their selling point? Ah.. mah.. gahd...
        Source please?  Oh the idiots at Benchmark keep making it easier and easier...
        Quote
        They seem to like to fling that term around... transparent... interesting euphemism for the same things we learned.
        It was on the link you gave me, silly!

        http://everhigher.com/PLworkshopdescription.htm (http://everhigher.com/PLworkshopdescription.htm)

        First sentence of the second paragraph.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: DannyB II on July 10, 2010, 12:55:34 AM
        Quote from: "SUCK IT"
        Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
        Or you could do what you can to end up in jail instead, which is a better place.

        This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on fornits, and that's saying a lot.

        Quote from: "Oscar"
        How can we prepare her for the possibility of a haircut, fingering of her private parts

        You are all fucking insane.

        This doesn't begin to tell the story, what pile is doing along with his cohorts is "patho". Yeah, lets scare the shit out of her because her parents did not listen, how is this helping. You tried and I think it was valient yet like so many other kids she is going. Now don't ya think we should start preparing her as Oscar said.
        I just hope that there is some other solution other then bashing the parents and Morgan by default.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Awake on July 10, 2010, 01:43:04 AM
        There is no reason to be prescribing unnecessary risks. This girl is obviously very intelligent, nothing here has indicated that she is a threat to her own life.  Who here would really sign her off on this sentence?.  So far this 14 yr old is communicating in as adult a fashion as anyone here, arguably moreso.  Supporting action of this kind against this girl should come with some solid reasoning.

        I still think that everyone is acting reasonable enough to do this at home, and that is the best solution.

        .
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: DannyB II on July 10, 2010, 01:50:09 AM
        Quote from: "Paul St. John"
        I remember there was a post, where the dad something like  "if she would agree to go to regular counseling,, we wouldn t send her to the program, I am sure"

        I thought that the "I am sure" part was funny, because that told me that it really isn t up to him, or at least he doesn t think so.

        It appears that mommy is all for it.  If you go on the tour, that's pretty much it.. They got ya from there.

        I stick by what I said originally.. Whether she goes to the program or not, she has got to get to 18, and get the fuck out.  My understanding is that she is a compulsive liar, and she has some other bad habits too.. much worse then bad grades.  My guess would be that her parent's troubled relationship has a real lot to do with this.

        I also agree that the girl still doesnt know what she is getting  into, and she won t until she s there. That s just the way it is.

        However, I do also think, that you catch more flies with honey, and I don t think that hurling insults at these people or talking to them like they are idiots will get them to come around, even if it does make you feel good.  You may be right about a lot of it, but if it doesn t work, what is the fucking point?

        I strongly dislike "Suck_It", but he makes some points. I would find it hard as a parent to take most of the posters seriously- no offense.

        This girl is not going to the straights or elan of the 70's, and if she were, I may recomend that she run, or perhaps, even choose jail.
        But under these particular circumstances that is irrational.

        Although " Suck_It", it is in fact possible that they might strip search her, and even search her ass for drugs.  Some places still do that shit.

        And sometimes violence even can work, a friend of mine got out of a treatment center not too long ago, by flipping the fuck out, and threatening in detail, to beat the living shit out of everyone in there, on like his first day  They were terrified of him, and the short story is, he got out, and went about his life.  Telling this story, it doesn t sound very believable, but it is the truth.  He had been in a center when he was a kid, and though he is now, an adult, when they started using all the terms, and shit, he completely lost it, and became a totally different person.  All he knew was that he had to get out.

        and the son of a bitch did.. LOL

        But he is an adult of course..

        all in all, I think that the suggestions listed by suck it, basically make the people here appear just as he said- like crazy extremists.

        Paul

        Paul not to jump on the band wagon, your right she is going whether we like it or not, I wish things were different because the issues at home seem to be the makings of her parents and she is getting the shit end of the stick. So even if this program was out of "heaven" (which it is not) she will probably still end up with a resentment towards her parents.
        I have been beating several drums concerning the TTI and 2 of them have surfaced here;
        One being parents own emotional/mental issues and irresponsibility of parenting a child, which seems to end with a child that has to go somewhere, this bothers me a great deal. I understand that Morgan has her part and at some point real soon she will have to take responsibility for her actions but why does it have to come to this. Separation of the communion/family.
        Yes as a child I went through this, I still have not completely healed (no shit...lol, Anne. That was for you. ) seriously though this should not even be considered until everything else has been exhausted. Someone said it in a earlier post, you can never get those years, emotions and memories back, there gone. Someone else will be raising your daughter, instilling their values, morals, there ideas of responsibility, their perception of life and they will be learning this from a emotionally detached teacher not from a loving parent.
        Two how we respond to parents and children who come to this site looking for help, insight, a shoulder and a board/site to bounce ideas off of.
        We do not control the parents, child or the outcomes of their actions and just because they don't agree with what we say, does not mean we should chastise them. We definitely should not express crazy off the wall ideas, so that they think we are immature and not want to come back with follow up information.
        I for one would like to hear back from Morgans parents will follow up conversations, so we can know how she is doing, is she being denied calls, are her parents worried, ect....but if we continue to insult them, we will not have this ideal opportunity to stay connected with a actual family that are experiencing a program. Well actually it will be Morgan.
        Guys I'm just trying to be reasonable and fair.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: MorganMDC on July 10, 2010, 01:48:25 PM
        Quote from: Awake
        There is no reason to be prescribing unnecessary risks. This girl is obviously very intelligent, nothing here has indicated that she is a threat to her own life.  Who here would really sign her off on this sentence?.  So far this 14 yr old is communicating in as adult a fashion as anyone here, arguably moreso.  Supporting action of this kind against this girl should come with some solid reasoning.

        I still think that everyone is acting reasonable enough to do this at home, and that is the best solution.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Troll Control on July 10, 2010, 02:02:41 PM
        I hope your parents understand what "unaccredited academics" are, Morgan.  They're going to set you back academically and most high schools and colleges won't accept any credits from the "self-study" programs.  You have an opportunity to turn it around at a real school, but these programs can really damage a kid's chances.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Troll Control on July 10, 2010, 02:09:54 PM
        Quote from: "Whooter"
        my daughters peer group graduated

        She sure as hell didn't graduate high school from an unaccredited program.  You said she dropped out of school when she came home.  

        That's not a "graduate" or "graduating."  That term leads people to believe a kid can get an actual diploma from these places, which they can't.  Most of these kids are stuck repeating grades or just getting a GED.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Whooter on July 10, 2010, 02:50:58 PM
        From a parents perspective many of these kids are not going to high school at all so getting them into a class room and studying  is a big step by itself.  In my daughters case the program she attended worked with a local high school and was able to hand out diplomas. (She graduated from the program and graduated from her local high-school after she got home).   I believe the Academy at Sisters has a similar set-up.

        What I suggest is to have the parents ask the school how their academics are set up and how the kids typically do after they go back to their highschools.  Many of the kids at the Academy at Swift River were gaining acceptance to college right from the Academy itself, but it depends on what grade you are in when you enter.  Most programs can gain the children access to taking PSAT's or SAT's.



        ...
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: MorganMDC on July 10, 2010, 03:15:25 PM
        Quote from: "Whooter"
        From a parents perspective many of these kids are not going to high school at all so getting them into a class room and studying  is a big step by itself.  In my daughters case the program she attended worked with a local high school and was able to hand out diplomas. (She graduated from the program and graduated from her local high-school after she got home).   I believe the Academy at Sisters has a similar set-up.

        What I suggest is to have the parents ask the school how their academics are set up and how the kids typically do after they go back to their highschools.  Many of the kids at the Academy at Swift River were gaining acceptance to college right from the Academy itself, but it depends on what grade you are in when you enter.  Most programs can gain the children access to taking PSAT's or SAT's.



        ...
        From my parents perspective, high school is not the issue, college is.
        Just to give you an insight as to how the Academy says their education set up is, Chesley told us that all curiclum, programs, credits, etc. is run through Bend High School.
        They have to meet the criteria that teachers in that high school would, and as a student, you have to be at the same level as the students attending.
        Apparently, your stay at the Academy shows up on your transcript as if you were attending Bend high school.
        If all goes well and as is planned, I am only attending this year - which is my sophomore year, - which means I wouldn't be receiving a diploma anyway.
        Dysfunction Junction, I don't think my parents see any signs of the Academy giving "unaccredited academics". I'm not sure either way.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Troll Control on July 10, 2010, 03:18:43 PM
        Whooter posted anon for a while when he came back after dropping his old username "TheWho."  You can start reading here (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=27903&p=336806&hilit=asr+daughter+dropped+out#p336791) to get the flow of the conversation and a few posts below Whooter (posting anon) says his daughter actually dropped out of high school and it eventually took her 5 years to graduate because the 16 months she spent at ASR didn't count for any high school credits.  For what it's worth, at the time she was there, ASR was legally barred from issuing state diplomas and was not accredited at all, contrary to what Whooter says in this thread.  In the link above he even says they were working on accreditation.

        He also says she was smoking pot and drinking.  Dropping out + still using drugs + still drinking underage does not = "the program was successful" IMHO.  Rather it seems to have been a complete waste of time and money, not to mention setting her back 16 months academically.

        Please, Morgan, let your parents know about these programs that are not allowed to issue high school credits.  I did a quick search on the Academy at Sisters on the Oregon department of Education website (you can enter the search terms "Academy at Sisters" here (http://http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=2h&oq=&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIH_enUS248US249&q=oregon+department+of+education) and see for yourself) and for the years they have data they show no graduates went on to college after leaving there.  They only "graduate" about 4 kids per year as well.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Troll Control on July 10, 2010, 03:27:38 PM
        Quote from: "MorganMDC"
        Quote from: "Whooter"
        From a parents perspective many of these kids are not going to high school at all so getting them into a class room and studying  is a big step by itself.  In my daughters case the program she attended worked with a local high school and was able to hand out diplomas. (She graduated from the program and graduated from her local high-school after she got home).   I believe the Academy at Sisters has a similar set-up.

        What I suggest is to have the parents ask the school how their academics are set up and how the kids typically do after they go back to their highschools.  Many of the kids at the Academy at Swift River were gaining acceptance to college right from the Academy itself, but it depends on what grade you are in when you enter.  Most programs can gain the children access to taking PSAT's or SAT's.



        ...
        From my parents perspective, high school is not the issue, college is.
        Just to give you an insight as to how the Academy says their education set up is, Chesley told us that all curiclum, programs, credits, etc. is run through Bend High School.
        They have to meet the criteria that teachers in that high school would, and as a student, you have to be at the same level as the students attending.
        Apparently, your stay at the Academy shows up on your transcript as if you were attending Bend high school.
        If all goes well and as is planned, I am only attending this year - which is my sophomore year, - which means I wouldn't be receiving a diploma anyway.
        Dysfunction Junction, I don't think my parents see any signs of the Academy giving "unaccredited academics". I'm not sure either way.

        They are actually not accredited by the state of Oregon.  They're registered as a private school, but not accredited.  They are accredited by the Northwest Association of Accredited Schools, a program "rubber stamper" that covers most programs that are not state accredited.  Some programs have been sued and shut down for issuing state diplomas illegally under NAAS because NAAS standards are far below state standards.  Click here (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Association_of_Accredited_Schools) and scroll down to the part about the Academy at Ivy Ridge, a WWASP program sued by New York state and all of the kids' parents after they found out AIR was issuing NAAS diplomas as "New York State high school diplomas."  NAAS is very shady and well-known to be a red flag to colleges.

        Quote
        In 2005 the Association attracted controversy when it was found to have accredited a school in New York that was found to be issuing high school diplomas without the necessary state authorizations, which are supposed to be prerequisites for accreditation.[2] Association officials told the press that it had accredited this school, Academy at Ivy Ridge, and other schools located outside its primary service region because they were operated by the World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools, which is based inside the region, in Utah.[3]

        NAAS accredidation has nothing whatsoever to do with the state of Oregon.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: MorganMDC on July 10, 2010, 03:33:12 PM
        Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
        Whooter posted anon for a while when he came back after dropping his old username "TheWho."  You can start reading here (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=27903&p=336806&hilit=asr+daughter+dropped+out#p336791) to get the flow of the conversation and a few posts below Whooter (posting anon) says his daughter actually dropped out of high school and it eventually took her 5 years to graduate because the 16 months she spent at ASR didn't count for any high school credits.  For what it's worth, at the time she was there, ASR was legally barred from issuing state diplomas and was not accredited at all, contrary to what Whooter says in this thread.  In the link above he even says they were working on accreditation.

        He also says she was smoking pot and drinking.  Dropping out + still using drugs + still drinking underage does not = "the program was successful" IMHO.  Rather it seems to have been a complete waste of time and money, not to mention setting her back 16 months academically.

        Please, Morgan, let your parents know about these programs that are not allowed to issue high school credits.  I did a quick search on the Academy at Sisters on the Oregon department of Education website (you can enter the search terms "Academy at Sisters" here (http://http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=2h&oq=&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIH_enUS248US249&q=oregon+department+of+education) and see for yourself) and for the years they have data they show no graduates went on to college after leaving there.  They only "graduate" about 4 kids per year as well.

        So there is absolutely no record of them going through Bend high school during the time you're schooling with them?
        Wow, thanks.
        How lovely.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Whooter on July 10, 2010, 03:34:26 PM
        Quote from: "MorganMDC"
        Quote from: "Whooter"
        From a parents perspective many of these kids are not going to high school at all so getting them into a class room and studying  is a big step by itself.  In my daughters case the program she attended worked with a local high school and was able to hand out diplomas. (She graduated from the program and graduated from her local high-school after she got home).   I believe the Academy at Sisters has a similar set-up.

        What I suggest is to have the parents ask the school how their academics are set up and how the kids typically do after they go back to their highschools.  Many of the kids at the Academy at Swift River were gaining acceptance to college right from the Academy itself, but it depends on what grade you are in when you enter.  Most programs can gain the children access to taking PSAT's or SAT's.



        ...
        From my parents perspective, high school is not the issue, college is.
        Just to give you an insight as to how the Academy says their education set up is, Chesley told us that all curiclum, programs, credits, etc. is run through Bend High School.
        They have to meet the criteria that teachers in that high school would, and as a student, you have to be at the same level as the students attending.
        Apparently, your stay at the Academy shows up on your transcript as if you were attending Bend high school.
        If all goes well and as is planned, I am only attending this year - which is my sophomore year, - which means I wouldn't be receiving a diploma anyway.
        Dysfunction Junction, I don't think my parents see any signs of the Academy giving "unaccredited academics". I'm not sure either way.

        Morgan,  This is how the Academy at Swift River was set up too (through a local high school), very similar to AAS.   Some of the kids and parents worried that having a Therapeutic Boarding School on their record would hurt their chances to get into college but all the kids got accepted into their school of choice after graduating.  But it looks like either way Academy at Sisters will not show up on your transcripts.
        Many of the kids ended up way ahead academically after they left.



        ...
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Troll Control on July 10, 2010, 03:40:30 PM
        Quote from: "Whooter"
        Many of the kids ended up way ahead academically after they left.

        I'd have to see some sort of proof on that claim.  Some state statistics or something.  That's a really big claim to make without any documentation.

        Right now, all we have to go on is Whooter's daughter, who dropped out of high school when she got home, eventually taking 5 years to complete 4 years of work because her 16 months at ASR didn't count toward her required credits.  

        Sadly, this is the case with many program attendees and it has been well discussed by them here on Fornits and other survivor groups around the web.  Odds are that Morgan will end up losing all credit for her sophomore year because high schools and colleges don't accept NAAS credits.
        Title: Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
        Post by: Joel on July 10, 2010, 03:42:36 PM
        Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Whooter on July 10, 2010, 03:50:58 PM
        Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
        Quote from: "Whooter"
        Many of the kids ended up way ahead academically after they left.

        I'd have to see some sort of proof on that claim.  Some state statistics or something.  That's a really big claim to make without any documentation.

        Right now, all we have to go on is Whooter's daughter, who dropped out of high school when she got home, eventually taking 5 years to complete 4 years of work because her 16 months at ASR didn't count toward her required credits.  

        Sadly, this is the case with many program attendees and it has been well discussed by them here on Fornits and other survivor groups around the web.  Odds are that Morgan will end up losing all credit for her sophomore year because high schools and colleges don't accept NAAS credits.

        Many of the kids had dropped out of school prior to placement in ASR and had a lot of catching up to do.  Within the 12 to 16 months they spent there they were able to not only catch up but exceeded their friends which were back home on regular classes.  I think the reason for this is that there isn't a ton of distraction and there is a lot of time to study... a lot of time lol.  So the kids end up catching up very easily.

        I dont know if there are any studies out there anywhere but this was the case with the kids that were there when my daughter attended.



        ...
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Troll Control on July 10, 2010, 03:52:08 PM
        Quote from: "TheWho"
        Quote
        Let's also be sure to let people know of ASR's ongoing problems with licensure and accreditation. There are some serious ethical questions raised by their behavior in this respect.

        They let you know they are not accredited in the state of massachusetts in the initial interview...  My daughter was way ahead academically when she returned home in comparison to her peers at school

        A few years ago Whooter did admit ASR was indeed unaccredited, that is, not lawfully allowed to hand out diplomas from the state but seems to have changed his story from his daughter being "well ahead academically" to "dropped out and took 5 years to finish high school" and eventually back again.  Now he's again claiming she was way ahead.  But if that's true, why did it take her five years to finish high school and everyone else four years?  Doesn't quite add up, does it?  The missing piece is that she got no credits while at ASR, an unaccredited school, and lost a years' worth of work and effort.

        The story tends to change a lot, but you can dig out the truth if you read back a ways.  This is why it's hard for parents like yours, Morgan, to get a straight story from program pimps here because you really have to be familiar with the characters to know where to look for their true stories which are always far different from what they want your folks to believe.  They're trying to put heads in beds and asses in chairs.  They're not going to be honest.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Whooter on July 10, 2010, 03:59:59 PM
        Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
        Quote from: "TheWho"
        Quote
        Let's also be sure to let people know of ASR's ongoing problems with licensure and accreditation. There are some serious ethical questions raised by their behavior in this respect.

        They let you know they are not accredited in the state of massachusetts in the initial interview...  My daughter was way ahead academically when she returned home in comparison to her peers at school

        A few years ago Whooter did admit ASR was indeed unaccredited,

        Exactly,  the school will let you know if they are accredited or not.   Many schools work with a local high-school like academy at Sisters does so that the credits can be put towards your local highschool when the child returns homes.  ASR did this originally for a few years when they first opened.

        The accreditation piece is typically a great concern to parents and should be cleared up prior to enrolling.  Another bit of advice is to try to speak with other parents and kids who have graduate from the program.  This allows them to get a point of view from the parents perspective and how other kids made out when they got home.



        ...
        Title: Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
        Post by: Joel on July 10, 2010, 04:05:59 PM
        Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Troll Control on July 10, 2010, 04:06:52 PM
        It set your daughter back a year.  She obviously couldn't have been "well ahead" unless "well ahead" means "a year behind."  The story about how "all kids went to the college of their choice" is obviously BS because they could not have even gotten a HS diploma from ASR, as you already admitted.  You're going to have to provide some links to facts or stop making these crazy, obviously false statements.

        Like I said, Morgan, Academy at Sisters is not accredited by the State of Oregon and no matter what others try to tell you, the credits will only be NAAS credits which will not transfer to accredited high schools and are well known by colleges to be worthless.

        Don't let the hucksters here try to fool you.  Do your own research.  Check a few links I provided, too.  Notice the sheisters provide absolutely no facts, links, studies, etc.  All they want is heads in beds, period.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: MorganMDC on July 10, 2010, 04:13:22 PM
        Quote from: "Joel"
        Morgan I used to work in programs and here are general rules/scenarios.  I am not passing judgement whether they are good or bad.

        * You will wake up at *** a.m.
        * You will go to sleep at *** p.m.
        * You will do chores
        * You will eat breakfast at *** a.m.
        * You will eat lunch at *** p.m.
        * You will eat dinner at *** p.m.
        * You will not watch television in your dorm room
        * You will use "appropriate language."
        * You will wear "appropriate clothing." - No punk type clothing etc.
        * You will leave your personal space immaculate before breakfast
        * You will not fight
        * You will not smoke
        * You will not drink
        * You will not do drugs
        * You will leave the program when your parents feel you're ready
        * You will not have access to a telephone if you want to report abuse
        * You will be supervised by staff with poor qualifications
        * You will stay within staff supervision
        * You will not get the quality education the program advertises
        * You will be present when staff search your personal property for contraband { Bear in mind staff search your personal property when you are not around}
        * You will read approved reading materials
        * You will write mail to whom your parents approve
        * You will complete work assignments as consequences for rule infractions { This happens at many programs today }
        * You will complete writing assignments as consequences for rule infractions { This happens at many programs today }

         

        All the above still listed are things that Chesley has stated herself, or that my mother has told me are true.
        As for being allowed home on major holidays/birthdays, they don't specify one way or another - "it can be earned" - but the fact that the place is a four hour drive from my home and friends, means that's probably close to impossible to work out for an overnight stay.
        You aren't even allowed telephone calls to anyone until you move to the second campus, which takes a long while, and it's not who your parents approve, it's who your case manager approves.
        I'm not sure on the cutting hair part. From the girls my mother took photos of at the first campus in the mountains, they had colored hair, cut at their chosen styles.
        The clothing is true as well. They say no bands, no logos, no styles because it's a "conservative dress code".
        Drugs, drinking, smoking, those are obvious.

        This whole education fiasco is starting to piss me off, frankly.
        It needs to be cleared up by facts, so I can present this to my parents if it is a true issue.

        Quote from: "Whooter"
        Quote from: "MorganMDC"
        Quote from: "Whooter"
        From a parents perspective many of these kids are not going to high school at all so getting them into a class room and studying  is a big step by itself.  In my daughters case the program she attended worked with a local high school and was able to hand out diplomas. (She graduated from the program and graduated from her local high-school after she got home).   I believe the Academy at Sisters has a similar set-up.

        What I suggest is to have the parents ask the school how their academics are set up and how the kids typically do after they go back to their highschools.  Many of the kids at the Academy at Swift River were gaining acceptance to college right from the Academy itself, but it depends on what grade you are in when you enter.  Most programs can gain the children access to taking PSAT's or SAT's.



        ...
        From my parents perspective, high school is not the issue, college is.
        Just to give you an insight as to how the Academy says their education set up is, Chesley told us that all curiclum, programs, credits, etc. is run through Bend High School.
        They have to meet the criteria that teachers in that high school would, and as a student, you have to be at the same level as the students attending.
        Apparently, your stay at the Academy shows up on your transcript as if you were attending Bend high school.
        If all goes well and as is planned, I am only attending this year - which is my sophomore year, - which means I wouldn't be receiving a diploma anyway.
        Dysfunction Junction, I don't think my parents see any signs of the Academy giving "unaccredited academics". I'm not sure either way.

        Morgan,  This is how the Academy at Swift River was set up too (through a local high school), very similar to AAS.   Some of the kids and parents worried that having a Therapeutic Boarding School on their record would hurt their chances to get into college but all the kids got accepted into their school of choice after graduating.  But it looks like either way Academy at Sisters will not show up on your transcripts.
        Many of the kids ended up way ahead academically after they left.

        ...

        That's what Chesley said.
        "They work ahead, and end up above level academically."
        Makes you wonder why they have a, what was it, I think 40% success rate, or graduation rate, or something like that.
        I may be wrong on the number, but it wasn't to good.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Whooter on July 10, 2010, 04:17:28 PM
        Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
        It set your daughter back a year.  She obviously couldn't have been "well ahead" unless "well ahead" means "a year behind."  The story about how "all kids went to the college of their choice" is obviously BS because they could not have even gotten a HS diploma from ASR, as you already admitted.  You're going to have to provide some links to facts or stop making these crazy, obviously false statements.

        Like I said, Morgan, Academy at Sisters is not accredited by the State of Oregon and no matter what others try to tell you, the credits will only be NAAS credits which will not transfer to accredited high schools and are well known by colleges to be worthless.

        Don't let the hucksters here try to fool you.  Do your own research.  Check a few links I provided, too.  Notice the sheisters provide absolutely no facts, links, studies, etc.  All they want is heads in beds, period.

        Dysfunction Junction, you seem to be upset.  When a program opens they cant become accredited right away so they usually work with a local high school so that the kids can get credits and then have them transferred to their high school back home.  In the case of those kids who graduate while at the program they work out so that the child receives a diploma either through the local high school or their school back home, each situation is different.

        This should not be a stressful point for you and easy to resolve and get answers.  Morgans parents can check with AAS and also speak to parents who have already been through the program.  This is what we did and it worked out fine.  
        I am sorry my experience upsets you so much,DJ, but we need to be able to look at all sides in my opinion.



        ...
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Troll Control on July 10, 2010, 04:18:22 PM
        Quote from: "MorganMDC"
        Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
        Whooter posted anon for a while when he came back after dropping his old username "TheWho."  You can start reading here (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=27903&p=336806&hilit=asr+daughter+dropped+out#p336791) to get the flow of the conversation and a few posts below Whooter (posting anon) says his daughter actually dropped out of high school and it eventually took her 5 years to graduate because the 16 months she spent at ASR didn't count for any high school credits.  For what it's worth, at the time she was there, ASR was legally barred from issuing state diplomas and was not accredited at all, contrary to what Whooter says in this thread.  In the link above he even says they were working on accreditation.

        He also says she was smoking pot and drinking.  Dropping out + still using drugs + still drinking underage does not = "the program was successful" IMHO.  Rather it seems to have been a complete waste of time and money, not to mention setting her back 16 months academically.

        Please, Morgan, let your parents know about these programs that are not allowed to issue high school credits.  I did a quick search on the Academy at Sisters on the Oregon department of Education website (you can enter the search terms "Academy at Sisters" here (http://http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=2h&oq=&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIH_enUS248US249&q=oregon+department+of+education) and see for yourself) and for the years they have data they show no graduates went on to college after leaving there.  They only "graduate" about 4 kids per year as well.

        So there is absolutely no record of them going through Bend high school during the time you're schooling with them?
        Wow, thanks.
        How lovely.

        Nope, you would get a worthless NAAS diploma with "J Bar J Learning Center" on it.  Anyone looking up "J Bar J Learning Center" will immediately see it's a "program of J Bar J youth services"  

        They might as well just put the name "Troubled Teen" at the top and "Reform School" at the bottom.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: MorganMDC on July 10, 2010, 04:22:30 PM
        Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
        Quote from: "MorganMDC"
        Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
        Whooter posted anon for a while when he came back after dropping his old username "TheWho."  You can start reading here (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=27903&p=336806&hilit=asr+daughter+dropped+out#p336791) to get the flow of the conversation and a few posts below Whooter (posting anon) says his daughter actually dropped out of high school and it eventually took her 5 years to graduate because the 16 months she spent at ASR didn't count for any high school credits.  For what it's worth, at the time she was there, ASR was legally barred from issuing state diplomas and was not accredited at all, contrary to what Whooter says in this thread.  In the link above he even says they were working on accreditation.

        He also says she was smoking pot and drinking.  Dropping out + still using drugs + still drinking underage does not = "the program was successful" IMHO.  Rather it seems to have been a complete waste of time and money, not to mention setting her back 16 months academically.

        Please, Morgan, let your parents know about these programs that are not allowed to issue high school credits.  I did a quick search on the Academy at Sisters on the Oregon department of Education website (you can enter the search terms "Academy at Sisters" here (http://http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=2h&oq=&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIH_enUS248US249&q=oregon+department+of+education) and see for yourself) and for the years they have data they show no graduates went on to college after leaving there.  They only "graduate" about 4 kids per year as well.

        So there is absolutely no record of them going through Bend high school during the time you're schooling with them?
        Wow, thanks.
        How lovely.

        Nope, you would get a worthless NAAS diploma with "J Bar J Learning Center" on it.  Anyone looking up "J Bar J Learning Center" will immediately see it's a "program of J Bar J youth services"  

        They might as well just put the name "Troubled Teen" at the top and "Reform School" at the bottom.
        Lovely lovely.
        Whooter and you seem to have completely different views on my future educational reality.
        Question is, which one will my parents buy into.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Whooter on July 10, 2010, 04:23:06 PM
        Quote from: "MorganMDC"

        That's what Chesley said.
        "They work ahead, and end up above level academically."
        Makes you wonder why they have a, what was it, I think 40% success rate, or graduation rate, or something like that.
        I may be wrong on the number, but it wasn't to good.

        I have seen numbers saying 80% elsewhere and this depends on the kids themselves.  The graduation rate I would think depends on how old the kids are when they enter AAS.  I would guess not many would graduate while at AAS and most graduate after they get home.  But yeah, 40% seems a little low for a success rate.  I would look into that.



        ...
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: MorganMDC on July 10, 2010, 04:26:52 PM
        Quote from: "Whooter"
        Quote from: "MorganMDC"

        That's what Chesley said.
        "They work ahead, and end up above level academically."
        Makes you wonder why they have a, what was it, I think 40% success rate, or graduation rate, or something like that.
        I may be wrong on the number, but it wasn't to good.

        I have seen numbers saying 80% elsewhere and this depends on the kids themselves.  The graduation rate I would think depends on how old the kids are when they enter AAS.  I would guess not many would graduate while at AAS and most graduate after they get home.  But yeah, 40% seems a little low for a success rate.  I would look into that.



        ...


        Again, I'm thinking 40%, but I could be incorrect.
        I wouldn't be graduating during my stay at AAS anyway, so that's not my concern. Putting myself back a year is.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Whooter on July 10, 2010, 04:28:49 PM
        Quote from: "MorganMDC"
        Lovely lovely.
        Whooter and you seem to have completely different views on my future educational reality.
        Question is, which one will my parents buy into.

        When in doubt contact the school and ask.  If you feel you want further info ask to speak with a parent/family who has been through AAS recently.  That typically clears up most questions.



        ...
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Whooter on July 10, 2010, 04:30:07 PM
        Quote from: "MorganMDC"

        Again, I'm thinking 40%, but I could be incorrect.
        I wouldn't be graduating during my stay at AAS anyway, so that's not my concern. Putting myself back a year is.

        Not much chance of you slipping back with all the study time you have over the next year.



        ...
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Troll Control on July 10, 2010, 04:31:00 PM
        Quote from: "Whooter"
        When a program opens they cant become accredited right away so they usually work with a local high school so that the kids can get credits and then have them transferred to their high school back home. In the case of those kids who graduate while at the program they work out so that the child receives a diploma either through the local high school or their school back home.

        All we can go by here is your own daughter who didn't get any HS credits from her unaccredited program and took five years to graduate a four year high school because she lost a whole years' worth of work.  This doesn't upset me in the least.  The rest of what you're saying, I see, is not documented by any independent sources, just your word, which is not really any good.  

        If you have any evidence to support your statements, just post it.  I'd be glad to review what you have.  No sense in trying to paint a picture of other people's emotions when all we're doing is having a conversation and sharing our research links.  Well, I am providing links, anayway.  You haven't supported anything you have said yet, but we're waiting.

        So far all we have is your daughter got no credits and took an extra year to graduate high school due to her unaccredited program academics.

        Quote from: "MorganMDC"
        Lovely lovely.
        Whooter and you seem to have completely different views on my future educational reality.
        Question is, which one will my parents buy into.

        It's really simple.  Just look into it yourself and show them.  4 "graduates" per year and zero go on to college for the years they reported to the state.  

        As far as Whooter's version, just look what he says about his own kid - lost a year of credits and took 5 years to graduate. His words, not mine.  That, plus only his "guesses" - no facts, no links, no nothing.

        Ask the state department of Ed.  Don't rely on any program to shoot you straight.  They want your money.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: MorganMDC on July 10, 2010, 04:37:54 PM
        Quote from: "Whooter"
        Quote from: "MorganMDC"
        Lovely lovely.
        Whooter and you seem to have completely different views on my future educational reality.
        Question is, which one will my parents buy into.

        When in doubt contact the school and ask.  If you feel you want further info ask to speak with a parent/family who has been through AAS recently.  That typically clears up most questions.



        ...

        I'll agree with Dysfunction Junction here.
        I see no statistics or anything backing these statements up.
        We don't have contact with families who have been through AAS.
        The schools told us they work with Bend high school... That's it.

        Joel, None.
        This is not my choice, never has been, never will be.
        I agreed to do counseling and whatever else it took locally.
        As I've stated earlier, my mother/possibly father made the decision against it.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Whooter on July 10, 2010, 04:40:48 PM
        Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
        Quote from: "Whooter"
        When a program opens they cant become accredited right away so they usually work with a local high school so that the kids can get credits and then have them transferred to their high school back home. In the case of those kids who graduate while at the program they work out so that the child receives a diploma either through the local high school or their school back home.

        All we can go by here is your own daughter who didn't get any HS credits from her unaccredited program and took five years to graduate a four year high school because she lost a whole years' worth of work.  This doesn't upset me in the least.  The rest of what you're saying, I see, is not documented by any independent sources, just your word, which is not really any good.  

        If you have any evidence to support your statements, just post it.  I'd be glad to review what you have.  No sense in trying to paint a picture of other people's emotions when all we're doing is having a conversation and sharing our research links.  Well, I am providing links, anayway.  You haven't supported anything you have said yet, but we're waiting.

        So far all we have is your daughter got no credits and took an extra year to graduate high school due to her unaccredited program academics.

        wow, I have never seen someone so upset that my daughter did so well at ASR lol.  I am telling you of my experience, DJ, calm down.  We are just two people on the internet.  Morgan nor her parents are not going to hang their future on this conversation.  We are just trying to help with what we know.

        This will allow them to know what questions to ask the school and parents who had kids graduate or attend when the time comes and what to expect, that is all.  I think allowing them to see 2 opposing points of view is very good for everyone.  We wouldn't want to just provide a one sided argument.  How could they make a balanced decision?
        But anyway lets not muck up this thread with bickering between ourselves.  This is about Morgan and her family.



        ...
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Nihilanthic on July 10, 2010, 05:04:25 PM
        Yeah, about how Morgan is going to get screwed royally by a program which will set her back academically, fuck her up emotionally, destroy the relationship with her parents, and put her through intense stress and abuse for its duration.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: MorganMDC on July 10, 2010, 05:08:20 PM
        Quote from: "Nihilanthic"
        Yeah, about how Morgan is going to get screwed royally by a program which will set her back academically, fuck her up emotionally, destroy the relationship with her parents, and put her through intense stress and abuse for its duration.
        That's what it's all about, right there.
        The cold hard truth.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Troll Control on July 10, 2010, 05:24:12 PM
        Quote from: "Whooter"
        my daughter did so well at ASR

        But...

        Quote
        She started seeing her old friends again, smoked pot and drank...

        Quote
        She has graduated now,but she did dropped out for awhile...took her 5 years.

        Quote
        I see your point, my daughter went Boom!! When she got home and I tried not to panic, although I did inside...

        Ohhhh, so "did so well" is just another way of saying "lost a year of academic credit, took five years to finish high school, drank and did drugs."  Got it.  Nice to know you have some whole other version of the English language to suit your agenda.

        See what I'm saying, Morgan?  This is the typical program experience and because it set someone back $60-$80 grand they feel this intense need to try to spin it as "did so well," or have to admit they wasted their money and their kids' time.  This is what these folks cling to like a life raft.  And when you just point it out they accuse you of being "upset" over their "success."  You can't make it up.

        Maybe if you ask him some questions he'll answer you instead of just trying to assign some of his own emotions to you.

        Here's one to start:
        If your daughter was "well ahead academically" why did it take five years to graduate high school instead of three or four?

        Be patient, and keep asking until you get an answer that doesn't require a "George Orwell 1984 decoder ring" to decipher...

        Good luck.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: MorganMDC on July 10, 2010, 05:27:39 PM
        Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
        Quote from: "Whooter"
        my daughter did so well at ASR

        Ohhhh, so "did so well" is just another way of saying "lost a year of academic credit, took five years to finish high school, drank and did drugs."  Got it.  Nice to know you have some whole other version of the English language to suit your agenda.

        See what I'm saying, Morgan?  This is the typical program experience and because it set someone back $60-$80 grand they feel this intense need to try to spin it as "did so well," or have to admit they wasted their money and their kids' time.  This is what these folks cling to like a life raft.  And when you just point it out they accuse you of being "upset" over their "success."  You can't make it up.

        Maybe if you ask him some questions he'll answer you instead of just trying to assign some of his own emotions to you.

        Here's one to start:
        If your daughter was "well ahead academically" why did it take five years to graduate high school instead of three or four?

        Be patient, and keep asking until you get an answer that doesn't require a "George Orwell 1984 decoder ring" to decipher...

        Good luck.
        The bold was hilarious, just had to say.
        See, I'd love to get some straight answers.
        Appears no one will.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 10, 2010, 05:52:31 PM
        Instead of this useless back-and-forth over getting straight information from the program, why don't you call fucking Bend High School and ask *them* what the situation is?
        Title: Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
        Post by: Joel on July 10, 2010, 05:56:34 PM
        Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 10, 2010, 06:00:14 PM
        Calling Phil Elberg was on page 1 of the thread. Might be a good time to return to that.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: DannyB II on July 10, 2010, 06:05:03 PM
        Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
        Whooter posted anon for a while when he came back after dropping his old username "TheWho."  You can start reading here (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=27903&p=336806&hilit=asr+daughter+dropped+out#p336791) to get the flow of the conversation and a few posts below Whooter (posting anon) says his daughter actually dropped out of high school and it eventually took her 5 years to graduate because the 16 months she spent at ASR didn't count for any high school credits.  For what it's worth, at the time she was there, ASR was legally barred from issuing state diplomas and was not accredited at all, contrary to what Whooter says in this thread.  In the link above he even says they were working on accreditation.

        He also says she was smoking pot and drinking.  Dropping out + still using drugs + still drinking underage does not = "the program was successful" IMHO.  Rather it seems to have been a complete waste of time and money, not to mention setting her back 16 months academically.

        Please, Morgan, let your parents know about these programs that are not allowed to issue high school credits.  I did a quick search on the Academy at Sisters on the Oregon department of Education website (you can enter the search terms "Academy at Sisters" here (http://http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=2h&oq=&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIH_enUS248US249&q=oregon+department+of+education) and see for yourself) and for the years they have data they show no graduates went on to college after leaving there.  They only "graduate" about 4 kids per year as well.

        DJ, I am not trying to be a "kill joy" here but why do we have to drag Morgan all through this, it is the message that is important, if the message is true it does not make a difference who it comes from, we are trying to help her right. You are trying to keep her out and whooter is discussing options if she does go. Both need to be discussed objectively, whether we like it or not.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Awake on July 10, 2010, 06:11:27 PM
        Morgan I can tell you are already able to make the changes this program will contrive out of you.  You are going to learn the lesson of accepting punishment  as Ďhelpí AND either liking it or acting like you like it.


        Either way you are going learn to do things with a good attitude.  I donít know how to say this really, but could you give yourself an attitude adjustment with respect to the potential alternatives?  By that I mean you canít just Ďagreeí to go to local counseling, you have to Ďwantí it.  Thatís the way it will be, donít think youíre strong enough to resist it there, so, might as well express that you get this point now.  

        As bizarre of advice as this is you might want to take it seriously.  Let your parents know you have had a vision of your future, and you realize that no matter what, you are going to learn to Ďdo it and like ití, so youíd prefer to learn how to do that your own way instead of be made to.  Iím not going to beat around the bush here. This is the end game, not sure if everyone is going to admit they know thatís the truth, but this is a lot better way to get to the same end.  If you can actually do this, somehow find a way to want it, even if your motivation is avoidance of a worse sentence, then you get it! You get the program! What you will do in a year, at much pain and cost, you can do right now! Promise your parents they donít have to do this, tell them youíll do what they want and youíll try to do it with a smile. What more could your parents ask?
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: DannyB II on July 10, 2010, 06:18:13 PM
        Quote from: "Awake"
        Morgan I can tell you are already able to make the changes this program will contrive out of you.  You are going to learn the lesson of accepting punishment  as Ďhelpí AND either liking it or acting like you like it.


        Either way you are going learn to do things with a good attitude.  I donít know how to say this really, but could you give yourself an attitude adjustment with respect to the potential alternatives?  By that I mean you canít just Ďagreeí to go to local counseling, you have to Ďwantí it.  Thatís the way it will be, donít think youíre strong enough to resist it there, so, might as well express that you get this point now.  

        As bizarre of advice as this is you might want to take it seriously.  Let your parents know you have had a vision of your future, and you realize that no matter what, you are going to learn to Ďdo it and like ití, so youíd prefer to learn how to do that your own way instead of be made to.  Iím not going to beat around the bush here. This is the end game, not sure if everyone is going to admit they know thatís the truth, but this is a lot better way to get to the same end.  If you can actually do this, somehow find a way to want it, even if your motivation is avoidance of a worse sentence, then you get it! You get the program! What you will do in a year, at much pain and cost, you can do right now! Promise your parents they donít have to do this, tell them youíll do what they want and youíll try to do it with a smile. What more could your parents ask?


        Now Morgan I have not had much to say to you, why????? others are doing just fine but my friend you just got some of the best advice your going to get right here.
        Awake just laid it out in very simple terms, Pile also came right to the point twice in his last posts. This is where the rubber hits the road, girl. It is your move.
        Please know we/I care deeply for your safety.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: MorganMDC on July 10, 2010, 06:29:46 PM
        Quote from: "Awake"
        Morgan I can tell you are already able to make the changes this program will contrive out of you.  You are going to learn the lesson of accepting punishment  as Ďhelpí AND either liking it or acting like you like it.


        Either way you are going learn to do things with a good attitude.  I donít know how to say this really, but could you give yourself an attitude adjustment with respect to the potential alternatives?  By that I mean you canít just Ďagreeí to go to local counseling, you have to Ďwantí it.  Thatís the way it will be, donít think youíre strong enough to resist it there, so, might as well express that you get this point now.  

        As bizarre of advice as this is you might want to take it seriously.  Let your parents know you have had a vision of your future, and you realize that no matter what, you are going to learn to Ďdo it and like ití, so youíd prefer to learn how to do that your own way instead of be made to.  Iím not going to beat around the bush here. This is the end game, not sure if everyone is going to admit they know thatís the truth, but this is a lot better way to get to the same end.  If you can actually do this, somehow find a way to want it, even if your motivation is avoidance of a worse sentence, then you get it! You get the program! What you will do in a year, at much pain and cost, you can do right now! Promise your parents they donít have to do this, tell them youíll do what they want and youíll try to do it with a smile. What more could your parents ask?
        This advice would have been helpful two weeks ago.
        My parents have made the final decision, all that's left now, is to prepare.
        I did act as though I "wanted it", and was pretty convincing, because it was the truth.
        I want it more than the program.
        Apparently, there is something in my own situation I am missing.
        "Danny B", to preserve said safety, all that's left is preparation.
        I don't see any way of getting out of this program now.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Whooter on July 10, 2010, 06:49:16 PM
        Morgan, You will come out of the program ready to go (I can almost assure you).  Stay focused on what you want for yourself (not what others want for you).  You donít have a choice (right now) on what road to take but you do have a choice on what direction you are going to go in.  You can choose to do the academics and work on your personal self and issues and mature beyond your peers at home.  Make the program work to your advantage and get yourself ready for the UKÖÖ The time and work in the program will give you new perspective on your family situation also.

        Most of all donít be frightened by all the negative experiences you have read about here.  The experience you have is up to you.



        ...
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Paul St. John on July 10, 2010, 06:57:47 PM
        And you will be..lol... far more prepared then most.

        It was very intelligent of you to do your own research, and you will reap some rewards from it.

        I wish ya the best here.  I think that what is being done to you is wrong, and I won't lie about that.  It is very clear that the adults in your life are choosing to focus on the bad things about you, and find ways to remedy them.

        But it is also very clear that there is a lot of good about you, that they just take for granted, rather then fanning the flame.

        It is ashame Morgan, and I think that for the most part, you are on your own.  I think that the best you can do, is make peace with yourself in all ways that you can.  You have to be strong.

        I read your mother's post, and no offense, but I don t believe her, completely.  In my view, the towel is being thrown in, and your mother is saying that either she is too weak to parent you, or that you are just so absolutely horrible, that you cannot be parented, which we know is not true.

        I think that you have to count on yourself. To me, what is more important, is not whether or not, you lose a year of academics, but that you remember what your goals are, throughout the process, and you come out, still, having them.  You should remind yourself often of what they are, and why you want them, while you are there.  Also, my opinion, is that you will get your school credits.  I would think that your parents have made some assurance of that.  I know that the place that I went, the schoolwork was like elementary school, but I still got passed in all my grades.

        Also, you could call that bend high school as was suggested.  That was a very sensible suggestion. I got a feeling your mind is probably not fully on that though.

        Paul

        PS  You still havent fully accepted it yet.  Not reallly.  This isn t real to you yet.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 10, 2010, 07:05:02 PM
        Quote from: "Paul St. John"
        Also, my opinion, is that you will get your school credits.  I would think that your parents have made some assurance of that.

        You'd think wrong, Paul- as noted by earlier in the thread, the parents have no clue whether or not the credits are in any way real.

        Quote
        PS  You still havent fully accepted it yet.  Not reallly.  This isn t real to you yet.

        This, this, a million times this.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: MorganMDC on July 10, 2010, 07:08:36 PM
        Quote from: "Whooter"
        Morgan, You will come out of the program ready to go (I can almost assure you).  You donít have a choice (right now) on what road to take but you do have a choice on what direction you are going to go in.  You can choose to do the academics and work on your personal self and issues and mature beyond your peers at home.  
        The experience you have is up to you.



        ...

        I would love to see the results of people coming out of AAS, Besides those on myspace which aren't clear.
        It seems no one has.
        They don't prepare you for anything, not even what will change going in, so it's a big shady mystery.

        Paul St. John,
        I thank you for your kind words.
        None taken. I didn't buy much of it either.
        It gives you a sense that I lie compulsively , and have some sort of other issue that she failed to name.
        I am not a compulsive lier, and I know my weaknesses, and will face them.
        "She just doesn't know how to parent me" as she says. Should I have to suffer for that by losing a year+ in a program? She thinks so.
        I haven't excepted this yet, no.
        I have however come to terms with it.
        I know I'll make it through, and do what is necessary, but I haven't yet excepted that this is what I've gotten myself into.
        It's just a bit tough to fathom.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Paul St. John on July 10, 2010, 07:09:39 PM
        Morgan, there are some things you should know....

        Right now, you are learning about the programs, and getting details on them, and thinking about what it is going to be like when you get there....

        But you are doing it from the comfort of your bedroom, and conversing with us on your very own PC.

        You are probably talking a lot with your friends about it on the phone, and when you hang out with them.

        When you get there, you will be inside the program.  You will no longer be looking at it.

        Right now, you are Morgan.  Once, you get there, you will quickly become, Morgan, the program member. Things will change drastically.  

        All your comforts will be gone. Your past will mean little, and they will start to carry out the job of rewriting you. You should know this.

        Paul
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: MorganMDC on July 10, 2010, 07:13:08 PM
        Quote from: "Paul St. John"
        Morgan, there are some things you should know....

        Right now, you are learning about the programs, and getting details on them, and thinking about what it is going to be like when you get there....

        But you are doing it from the comfort of your bedroom, and conversing with us on your very own PC.

        You are probably talking a lot with your friends about it on the phone, and when you hang out with them.

        When you get there, you will be inside the program.  You will no longer be looking at it.

        Right now, you are Morgan.  Once, you get there, you will quickly become, Morgan, the program member. Things will change drastically.  

        All your comforts will be gone. Your past will mean little, and they will start to carry out the job of rewriting you. You should know this.

        Paul

        I am aware of this.
        I know all the therapy is going to be a load of, well, bullshit running wild.  :bs:  :bs:  :bs:  :bs:
        I have no intention of losing my goals, and my past, nor my personality.
        All I can do is study their psychological tactics - or the ones they claim to use, - from home, and prepare to -for lack of a better pair of words - be mind-fucked.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Awake on July 10, 2010, 07:14:02 PM
        No. She cannot Ďchoose to work on her personal self and issues.í This is coming under explicit, forced direction with the threat of punishment. This situation robs her of that possibility.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Paul St. John on July 10, 2010, 07:15:27 PM
        Quote
        I know I'll make it through, and do what is necessary,

        That is what is most is important.

        Quote
        but I haven't yet excepted that this is what I've gotten myself into.

        This whole thing(the program) is all part of something bigger.  It has to do with your parent's orientation of life.


        Quote
        It's just a bit tough to fathom.

        LOL!  I know... Be strong.. I say that to you.. a thousand times over.  Whatever strategy you end up adopting, be strong.  Don't forget that.  There are things far stronger then any program, even though it will not seem like it a lot of the time.  Be strong, and give yourself credit, Morgan.
        It's just an experience.  It is not you.

        Paul
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Paul St. John on July 10, 2010, 07:17:58 PM
        Quote
        I thank you for your kind words

        You're welcome. :)

        Paul
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Whooter on July 10, 2010, 07:35:40 PM
        Quote from: "Awake"
        No. She cannot Ďchoose to work on her personal self and issues.í This is coming under explicit, forced direction with the threat of punishment. This situation robs her of that possibility.

        Awake, my daughter was able to resolve many issues at ASR (that she had been working on at home with her therapist).  I believe I read that AAS has individual therapy available to the children there which will allow Morgan to work on the issues that she chooses to work on.  I may be wrong, I will check the details on their site again.



        ...
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: MorganMDC on July 10, 2010, 07:36:46 PM
        Quote from: "Whooter"
        Quote from: "Awake"
        No. She cannot Ďchoose to work on her personal self and issues.í This is coming under explicit, forced direction with the threat of punishment. This situation robs her of that possibility.

        Awake, my daughter was able to resolve many issues at ASR (that she had been working on at home with her therapist).  I believe I read that AAS has individual therapy available to the children there which will allow Morgan to work on the issues that she chooses to work on.  I may be wrong, I will check the details on their site again.



        ...
        It's group therapy, or so I understand it to be.
        It's the issues they chose.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Whooter on July 10, 2010, 07:39:51 PM
        Quote from: "MorganMDC"
        Quote from: "Whooter"
        Quote from: "Awake"
        No. She cannot Ďchoose to work on her personal self and issues.í This is coming under explicit, forced direction with the threat of punishment. This situation robs her of that possibility.

        Awake, my daughter was able to resolve many issues at ASR (that she had been working on at home with her therapist).  I believe I read that AAS has individual therapy available to the children there which will allow Morgan to work on the issues that she chooses to work on.  I may be wrong, I will check the details on their site again.



        ...
        It's group therapy, or so I understand it to be.
        It's the issues they chose.

        You are right, Morgan, they do offer group therapy.  But I also thought that they offered individual therapy at AAS.  That is what I was referring to.



        ...
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: MorganMDC on July 10, 2010, 07:41:39 PM
        Quote from: "Whooter"
        Quote from: "MorganMDC"
        Quote from: "Whooter"
        Quote from: "Awake"
        No. She cannot Ďchoose to work on her personal self and issues.í This is coming under explicit, forced direction with the threat of punishment. This situation robs her of that possibility.

        Awake, my daughter was able to resolve many issues at ASR (that she had been working on at home with her therapist).  I believe I read that AAS has individual therapy available to the children there which will allow Morgan to work on the issues that she chooses to work on.  I may be wrong, I will check the details on their site again.



        ...
        It's group therapy, or so I understand it to be.
        It's the issues they chose.

        You are right, Morgan, they do offer group therapy.  But I also thought that they offered individual therapy at AAS.  That is what I was referring to.



        ...
        Not that I've seen.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 10, 2010, 07:43:24 PM
        And in case you think that anyone's talking about therapy as it is understood by the actual psychological world, take a good look at the CEDU forum.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Paul St. John on July 10, 2010, 07:47:00 PM
        There is never any resolution in group therapy.. I sat through so many hours of it, everyday for half a year.  It is not directed towards resolution.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Whooter on July 10, 2010, 07:58:08 PM
        Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
        And in case you think that anyone's talking about therapy as it is understood by the actual psychological world, take a good look at the CEDU forum.

        Why should anyone look at the CEDU forum?  I believe CEDU closed.  You should check the thread title, Pile.  This is Academy at Sisters.



        ...
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Whooter on July 10, 2010, 07:59:51 PM
        Quote from: "Paul St. John"
        There is never any resolution in group therapy.. I sat through so many hours of it, everyday for half a year.  It is not directed towards resolution.

        Group therapy is okay and helps but hopefully they offer her individual therapy as well.



        ...
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Paul St. John on July 10, 2010, 08:23:13 PM
        I have to disagree with you Whooter.  You are revealing your inner-most self to a large group of random people.  It is ego(self) diminsihing, and it never seemed to me, that there was even any intention to resolve only issues.  It seemed like it's only purpose was to bring everyone down to the same level.

        Again, I am only talking from my experiences, but all people ever talked about was one bad thing after another.  All they ever gave attention to was their most vulnerable parts, over and over.  One of the most fundamental lessons of learning is you- you get more of what you reinforce.  I watched these people convince themselves, that they were nothing more then their problems.... that their problem and weaknesses were their TRUE identity, and so they took on behaviors accordingly.  Now, if you talked say a little bit about the time your cat got ran over, or when your sister died, or when your dad tried to kill you with a baseball bat, or how scared you are, or how miserable you are, but then went on to talk about things such as -

        1 what you learned from the experience
        2 how to put these things into perspective
        3 or identifying reality more clearly to put these things into focus
        4 or how other people had overcome similar problems...

        or a lot of other useful thing..

        then maybe it could be beneficial...

        but to just have an orgy of people telling terrible stories.. other people asking questions about... and then someone else saying " I got a similar story", and the whole thing repeating all over again... after many hours of this each day, you just walk away and say..

        What was the purpose of all this?


        Paul
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Awake on July 10, 2010, 08:25:33 PM
        How do you make her want therapy?


        Resistant teens being commonplace in these therapeutic programs I'm quite certain that they are well aware of this commonplace occurence.  So how do they manage to force a resistant person to want therapy from them?
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Paul St. John on July 10, 2010, 08:35:16 PM
        Quote from: "Awake"
        How do you make her want therapy?


        Resistant teens being commonplace in these therapeutic programs I'm quite certain that they are well aware of this commonplace occurence.  So how do they manage to force a resistant person to want therapy from them?


        With the group therapy, it is not that hard.

        A lot of people would like to dwell on their problems, but most of do not, because, while it is a very easy thing to do, we know that it i snot beneficial, and will not help us in life.

        But when you see one person after another do it, and all the attention they get as a result, before too long, most people are like...

        "ewww  ewww.. My turn...."

        and sometimes, it even turns into competitions about who had it worse..

        but what the fuck do you get for that an " I had it worse" badge.

        In life, it amounts to nothing, but feeling sorry for yourself.

        Paul
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Ursus on July 10, 2010, 08:40:22 PM
        Quote from: "Whooter"
        Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
        And in case you think that anyone's talking about therapy as it is understood by the actual psychological world, take a good look at the CEDU forum.
        Why should anyone look at the CEDU forum?  I believe CEDU closed.  You should check the thread title, Pile.  This is Academy at Sisters.
        As you well know, the heads of the hydra (http://http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hydra) that is CEDU keep cropping up again and again. For some reason, CEDU philosophy, methodologies and protocols have worked their way into more than just a program or two in the state of Oregon.

        Mount Bachelor Academy was, of course, the most infamous one of late ... due, for the most part, to their utilization of the Lifesteps seminars/workshops which were based on CEDU's seminars/workshops. Another Aspen program in Oregon which also uses Lifesteps is NorthStar.

        And here, in this very thread, with regard to Academy at Sisters, a number of references and connections to CEDU have already cropped up...
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: MorganMDC on July 10, 2010, 08:47:43 PM
        Quote from: "Awake"
        How do you make her want therapy?


        Resistant teens being commonplace in these therapeutic programs I'm quite certain that they are well aware of this commonplace occurence.  So how do they manage to force a resistant person to want therapy from them?

        I wonder that for others.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: SUCK IT on July 10, 2010, 09:05:18 PM
        Good luck to everyone
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: MorganMDC on July 10, 2010, 09:08:00 PM
        Quote from: "SUCK IT"
        Going through a treatment program can be a very positive experience. The chances of this are actually significant and much more likely than anything approaching the outrageous propaganda posted here by the anti treatment extremist brigade.

        It's important to note that Dysfunction Junction is closing in an pinning down Whooter on a potential lie he might have possibly told. This is some big news in the troubled teen industry, and you can check for breaking news updates on this forum. Once Dysfunction Junction can prove that Whooter made a single misstatement, the entire troubled teen industry house of cards will come tumbling down. Whooter is the grand emperor of troubled teen programs and once he has been officially discredited by a properly degreed poster his reign over the vast system of brainwashing torture gulags will finally be over.
        It's like an action movie.
        How wonderful.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Whooter on July 10, 2010, 09:18:54 PM
        Quote from: "Ursus"
        Quote from: "Whooter"
        Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
        And in case you think that anyone's talking about therapy as it is understood by the actual psychological world, take a good look at the CEDU forum.
        Why should anyone look at the CEDU forum?  I believe CEDU closed.  You should check the thread title, Pile.  This is Academy at Sisters.
        As you well know, the heads of the hydra (http://http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hydra) that is CEDU keep cropping up again and again. For some reason, CEDU philosophy, methodologies and protocols have worked their way into more than just a program or two in the state of Oregon.

        Mount Bachelor Academy was, of course, the most infamous one of late ... due, for the most part, to their utilization of the Lifesteps seminars/workshops which were based on CEDU's seminars/workshops. Another Aspen program in Oregon which also uses Lifesteps is NorthStar.

        And here, in this very thread, with regard to Academy at Sisters, a number of references and connections to CEDU have already cropped up...

        I know that you make these connections, Ursus, but very few other people do.  If an ex employee of CEDU gets a job with the public school system it doesnt mean that they dictate policy and become a CEDU based school system or the same if they work for McDonalds, people dont need to go through life steps to get a burger.

        If McDonalds closed tomorrow most of the people would go get jobs at other burger joints but it wouldnt mean they would be making Big Macs.  They would be making what the new place told them to make.  They would have to retrain and align with the new process.  Anyone who has ever switched jobs could tell you this.



        ...
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Paul St. John on July 10, 2010, 09:39:45 PM
        Quote
        I know that you make these connections, Ursus, but very few other people do.  If an ex employee of CEDU gets a job with the public school system it doesnt mean that they dictate policy and become a CEDU based school system or the same if they work for McDonalds, people dont need to go through life steps to get a burger.

        If McDonalds closed tomorrow most of the people would go get jobs at other burger joints but it wouldnt mean they would be making Big Macs.  They would be making what the new place told them to make.  They would have to retrain and align with the new process.  Anyone who has ever switched jobs could tell you this.

        Whooter, you talk about people as if they are just empty vessels carrying out job functions.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Whooter on July 10, 2010, 11:28:07 PM
        Quote from: "Paul St. John"
        Quote
        I know that you make these connections, Ursus, but very few other people do.  If an ex employee of CEDU gets a job with the public school system it doesnt mean that they dictate policy and become a CEDU based school system or the same if they work for McDonalds, people dont need to go through life steps to get a burger.

        If McDonalds closed tomorrow most of the people would go get jobs at other burger joints but it wouldnt mean they would be making Big Macs.  They would be making what the new place told them to make.  They would have to retrain and align with the new process.  Anyone who has ever switched jobs could tell you this.

        Whooter, you talk about people as if they are just empty vessels carrying out job functions.



        Each company or business has a philosophy that makes them different then their competitors.  They compete on these levels every day.  If we hire someone into our business we train them on our philosophies and they become part of the teamÖ. everyone on the team does business the same way.  The way that some people here on fornits are trying to make people believe that it works just the opposite.  They feel you can hire someone that use to work for CEDU and then they come in and your company becomes CEDU based.  But in reality anyone who has worked for a business knows this not to be true.  In fact it is just the opposite.  Most people know this but it seems many here on fornits do not.

        The business doing the hiring defines the culture (not the other way around).  I am just trying to point this out.



        ...
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Ursus on July 11, 2010, 12:59:18 AM
        Quote from: "Whooter"
        Quote from: "Paul St. John"
        Quote
        I know that you make these connections, Ursus, but very few other people do.  If an ex employee of CEDU gets a job with the public school system it doesnt mean that they dictate policy and become a CEDU based school system or the same if they work for McDonalds, people dont need to go through life steps to get a burger.

        If McDonalds closed tomorrow most of the people would go get jobs at other burger joints but it wouldnt mean they would be making Big Macs.  They would be making what the new place told them to make.  They would have to retrain and align with the new process.  Anyone who has ever switched jobs could tell you this.
        Whooter, you talk about people as if they are just empty vessels carrying out job functions.
        Each company or business has a philosophy that makes them different then their competitors.  They compete on these levels every day.  If we hire someone into our business we train them on our philosophies and they become part of the teamÖ. everyone on the team does business the same way.  The way that some people here on fornits are trying to make people believe that it works just the opposite.  They feel you can hire someone that use to work for CEDU and then they come in and your company becomes CEDU based.  But in reality anyone who has worked for a business knows this not to be true.  In fact it is just the opposite.  Most people know this but it seems many here on fornits do not.

        The business doing the hiring defines the culture (not the other way around).  I am just trying to point this out.
        Lemme stop ya right now before you make an even bigger fool of yourself than you already have with this sad sorry attempt at deflection and obfuscation.

        Businesses that hire coaches to rework their particular business climate and/or school their employees to adopt a given mindset or approach to their work ... do not "define" how the coaches do their job. They shop for coaches who reflect what they want "taught."

        Academy at Sisters opted for CEDU coaches, that is, for coaches who believe, emulate, and honor Mel Wasserman's philosophy and approach to the field of the behavior modification of adolescents. Although they just recently announced (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30744&p=369104#p369104) this (April 2010), it was apparently in the works for some time prior. They've already tested this out and found it suitable for their purposes:

        Academy at Sisters continues to examine all facets of the treatment we provide for students and their families to ensure that everyone is an active participant in the process of meaningful change. After several trial months of a few new families working with the ICF Certified Coaches of Next Step for Success, the Parent Coaching has proven to be very successful and an invaluable service to the families we serve. Therefore, we are excited to announce that Academy at Sisters now provides Parent Coaching through Next Step for Success to all incoming families.[/list]

        My guess is this will not be an "option" for new parents; it will be part and parcel of parents' obligations to their daughter being "in treatment" at the Academy. AAS clearly sees Next Step for Success coaches as providing instruction for parents in keeping with, reflective of, and aligned with the treatment regimen provided for their daughters:

        Not only do they serve as an outside support for parents and guardians, but Next Step for Success also helps parents solidify their commitment to their daughter's placement at the Academy at Sisters. Additionally, the Parent Coaches of Next Step for Success maintain a unified front with our program, serving to meet the best interest of the student and parents as a family. Overall, this results in: confident parents who are more aligned with their daughter's treatment goals, parents who are less likely to be manipulated, and consequently, a program with higher student retention rates.[/list]

        As to your characterization of Bill and Penelope Valentine, Vicki Jones, and Barbara Cass as uncommitted burger flippers who change loyalties at the drop of a hat as they careen from one fast food industry job to another in the course of their lives? LOLLLLLL... Gimme a break! You're talking 'bout folks who've spent several decades living, breathing, and dishing out CEDU mind-fuckery from the front lines ... from all the way back in the mid-1970s 'till when CEDU went bankrupt five years ago, whereupon they then went into the coaching biz with their former colleagues.

        Outside of the fact that they're no longer doing the actual screaming at adolescents, and they're now doing the "training" of parents (except perhaps for Bill Valentine, who's been doing the latter for many decades now), Next Step for Success personnel are not doing anything philosophically much different today ... then what they were doing back then! They just don't have the responsibilities of a fixed physical location to contend with anymore. I guess that's somebody else's problem now!
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Oscar on July 11, 2010, 02:03:42 AM
        Quote from: "MorganMDC"
        Quote from: "Awake"
        How do you make her want therapy?

        Resistant teens being commonplace in these therapeutic programs I'm quite certain that they are well aware of this commonplace occurence.  So how do they manage to force a resistant person to want therapy from them?

        I wonder that for others.

        I happened to watch a TV-program about Schuberts Minde, which in many ways function similar to the Academy. It is rather easy. When you enter you basically lose all. Your personal clothes, your face-to-face communication with your parents, access to communication with extended family and friends. Because you want those things back you need to be a part of the therapy. They properly will issue you a kind of diary, you will have to share with your personal 18 year old counselor during weekly status meetings. The group therapy meetings may result in homework where you have to write something about the subjects. If you don't write anything the 18 year old counselor cannot recommend  that you will be "voted" up, which all the staff hold meetings about every 14 days.

        Please be aware that they can send you to a boot camp like program for a short period if you resist. It is in the contract (http://http://www.academyatsisters.org/Applications/ReleaseFormsCombined.pdf).

        Quote
        Alternative referral and placement. The Academy is authorized to make referrals and placements of Student in a short term wilderness program or other interim placement. Such placement shall be at the sole discretion of The Academy.
        I just have to ask. What kind of assurance can a tour give your family, if the academy can send you to a wilderness boot camp, which your mother has not toured?
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Whooter on July 11, 2010, 07:49:24 AM
        This is what I mean:

        Quote
        Outside of the fact that they're no longer doing the actual screaming at adolescents, and they're now doing the "training" of parents (except perhaps for Bill Valentine, who's been doing the latter for many decades now), Next Step for Success personnel are not doing anything philosophically much different today ... then what they were doing back then! They just don't have the responsibilities of a fixed physical location to contend with anymore. I guess that's somebody else's problem now!

        So they dont work with the children at all.  No screaming and yelling.  If they scream and yell at the parents I am sure they will hang up on them.  So we can conclude that AAS is not CEDU based.  They hired this team because they like the way they pitched their transition package and handling of the parents training and felt they were a good fit for that.  

        I pointed this out earlier, Ursus, because your posts can be misleading.  Some of your posts infer that AAS is CEDU in nature and that their philosophy is such.



        ...
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: blombrowski on July 11, 2010, 07:55:55 AM
        Has anyone here been in touch with disability rights Oregon?  Last time I checked restricted communication was illegal under oregon's licensing law.

        www.disabilityrightsoregon.org (http://www.disabilityrightsoregon.org)
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: maruska on July 11, 2010, 09:24:42 AM
        I do not know if Morganīs parents are going to read this, but I will try ...

        I am  a mother of two and my daughter put me through hell during her teenage years.
        She is 18 now...and a great young woman . Three years ago? I cannot describe how difficult she was...She was rebelious, no interest in her education, she tried pot and other drugs, she hang out with the wrong crowd. She refused counseling.

        It was such a difficult time for our family...but you know what? We made it. Without a program. We just...were parents and did our job. It was not easy. But it was soooo worth it. For some reason she had to through all this...and we were there...every day, every hour of her life...we were there...

        She is heading for University next year .

        So please, give your family a chance...because if you send her away, you will miss out on so much, on the most important years of her development. You will never get this time back. The gap will remain in your life...It is up to you. I wish you all the best.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Troll Control on July 11, 2010, 09:38:00 AM
        Quote from: "Moose."
        I know I got held back because of my programs credits not transferring.. of course it was NAAS, though, so no big surprise there.

        No surprise at all to me.  These programs screw kids over every day with the bogus "your credits will transfer" line.  Obviously, as you stated, NAAS credits don't transfer.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Whooter on July 11, 2010, 02:55:22 PM
        I believe that Morgansí  current high school, AAS and the Bend High school are all in the same state.  If she will be getting her academics from the Bend school then the easiest thing to do is to call (or have her parents call) and see if the credits earned will be transferable.  Being in the same state is easy to resolve.

        Every parent that I met had resolved this with their local school system way before their kids started in the program.  So this was never an issue.

        A couple of phone calls and you will have the answer one way or another.



        ...
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Oscar on July 11, 2010, 03:49:31 PM
        But there would be no education before she reach the Read Campus. If you read their homepage, you will notice that there is no education at the Lodge Campus where Morgan starts out. The Lodge Campus, which her mother didn't tour, is focused to get the girls to buy the program. Education will disturb this process.
        Title: Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
        Post by: Joel on July 11, 2010, 04:04:03 PM
        Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Whooter on July 11, 2010, 04:19:05 PM
        Quote from: "Oscar"
        But there would be no education before she reach the Read Campus. If you read their homepage, you will notice that there is no education at the Lodge Campus where Morgan starts out. The Lodge Campus, which her mother didn't tour, is focused to get the girls to buy the program. Education will disturb this process.

        I agree, Oscar, Many programs are set up this way.  During the initial phase the kids are getting acclimated with the programs rules and high structure.  Once this is accomplished and the kids feel safe they can settle down and start their academics.  I couldnt see anybody being able to study during wilderness, but once they get onto the main campus there is nothing but time and if they utilize it well they can accomplish a lot academically.



        ...
        Title: Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
        Post by: Joel on July 11, 2010, 04:34:10 PM
        Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Whooter on July 11, 2010, 04:45:52 PM
        Quote from: "Joel"
        Whooter:

        Quote from: "RobertBruce"
        John are you still really playing this game? I thought for sure by now after having been exposed and humiliated time and time again you would have learned your lesson.


        Some people just always have to try and ice skate up hill I guess.
        [/color][/i][/b]

        Whooter who is Robert Bruce?  Please discuss.  

         :jawdrop:

        This may be better suited for another thread.  I really dont know who he is, he could be someones alias.  He has been popping in and out here for years now.  He usually shows up when DJ gets in trouble and then disappears when he does.  But other than that I really dont know.

        Lets keep this thread focused on Academy at Sisters.  Maybe take this over to the whooter/reuben thread?



        ...
        Title: Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
        Post by: Joel on July 11, 2010, 04:58:24 PM
        Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Whooter on July 11, 2010, 05:11:35 PM
        Quote from: "Joel"


        Whooter I am questioning your veracity and motivation in this thread.  This is important for people to hear.  You claimed to have access to Robert Bruce's  treatment records at HLA that revealed "gay issues." In addition you tried to identify Mr. Bruce on fornits, but have been wrong about his ID.  



        Lets move it here (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=369379#p369379).



        ...
        Title: Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
        Post by: Joel on July 11, 2010, 05:12:41 PM
        Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 11, 2010, 05:30:30 PM
        So, quick recap:

        1. The company hired to help manipulate the parents is entirely from CEDU.

        2. The program credits aren't actually from Bend High School but from a worthless accreditation agency called NAAS, whose credits nobody else takes.
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Whooter on July 11, 2010, 05:58:31 PM
        Quote from: "Joel"
        Re: Cataloging TheWho/John Reuben's Lies
        Postby Whooter Ľ 7 minutes ago


        Quote from: "Joel"
        Whooter I am questioning your veracity and motication in this thread. This is important for people to hear. You claimed to have access to Robert Bruce's treatment records at HLA that revealed "gay issues." In addition you tried to identify Mr. Bruce on fornits, but has been wrong about his ID.

        I can just as easily say that you claimed to be a member of the Nazi party.  That you claim I am John Reuben but are wrong about my id.

        This is an open forum.  People can say whatever they want.  I am not sure what your point is.

        [/color][/i][/b]

        Sorry, Joel,  but I think you are being unfair and disrespectful to Morgan and her family by not moving this conversation.  You are obviously just trying to disrupt this thread.   I will not be responding to your posts again.



        ...
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Whooter on July 11, 2010, 06:05:27 PM
        Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
        So, quick recap:

        1. The company hired to help manipulate the parents is entirely from CEDU.
        exactly and the parents have a choice whether or not they chose to embrace this strategy.  It works for some families but others dont take to it well.  I think it is good that they offer this as an alternative to doing something local.

        Quote
        2. The program credits aren't actually from Bend High School but from a worthless accreditation agency called NAAS, whose credits nobody else takes.

        This can be cleared up by talking directly with the two schools to see how the credits will be handled before the child is sent to AAS.  I think this makes the most sense.  The last thing a parent needs to worry about is how the time spent in AAS is going to be applied to the childs overall high school record.

        Note to parents:  Get comfortable with this "before" you commit to this program and make sure you know how Morgans credits will be handled.  You dont want to deal with this later.

        In my daughters case it was a smooth transition with the credits being accepted by her local school since we were in the same state.



        ...
        Title: Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
        Post by: Joel on July 11, 2010, 06:35:08 PM
        Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Ursus on July 11, 2010, 06:37:53 PM
        Quote from: "Whooter"
        Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
        So, quick recap:

        1. The company hired to help manipulate the parents is entirely from CEDU.
        exactly and the parents have a choice whether or not they chose to embrace this strategy.  It works for some families but others dont take to it well.  I think it is good that they offer this as an alternative to doing something local.
        Would ya mind pointing out exactly where you get this information, Whooter? From the wording in the recent announcement (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30744&p=369104#p369104) there is NO mention of "choice" or "alternative." In fact, the implication is quite the opposite:

        ...we are excited to announce that Academy at Sisters now provides Parent Coaching through Next Step for Success to all incoming families.[/list]

        In fact, chances are, any parents who do not want to go along with this will be chastised for not doing their best to "help" their daughter! That's pretty much the way it works in most of these hellholes. :D

        See: ALSO (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30744&start=270#p369336).
        Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
        Post by: Whooter on July 11, 2010, 06:46:41 PM
        Quote from: "Ursus"
        Quote from: "Whooter"
        Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
        So, quick recap:

        1. The company hired to help manipulate the parents is entirely from CEDU.
        exactly and the parents have a choice whether or not they chose to embrace this strategy.  It works for some families but others dont take to it well.  I think it is good that they offer this as an alternative to doing something local.
        Would ya mind pointing out exactly where you get this information, Whooter? From the wording in the recent announcement (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30744&p=369104#p369104) there is NO mention of "choice" or "alternative." In fact, the implication is quite the opposite:

          ...we are excited to announce that Academy at Sisters now provides Parent Coaching through Next Step for Success to all incoming families.[/list]

          In fact, chances are, any parents who do not want to go along with this will be chastised for not doing their best to "help" their daughter! That's pretty much the way it works in most of these hellholes. :D

          See: ALSO (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30744&start=270#p369336).

          No, the program provides it as a service.  Its not mandatory, I am sure they push hard  for(or maybe strong arm) the parents to sign up because they get a kick back but parents can work in their own direction if they choose.  I think overall it is a good idea to work with the school so that the issues that are uncovered or surface from the child can be communicated and addressed at home.

          But you need to remember that this is a family issue and changes need to be made by all parties involved.  Some parents chose counseling, others sign up with the program, others do nothing and hope the child gets fixed.



          ...
          Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
          Post by: Ursus on July 11, 2010, 07:12:28 PM
          Quote from: "Whooter"
          Quote from: "Ursus"
          Quote from: "Whooter"
          Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
          So, quick recap:

          1. The company hired to help manipulate the parents is entirely from CEDU.
          exactly and the parents have a choice whether or not they chose to embrace this strategy.  It works for some families but others dont take to it well.  I think it is good that they offer this as an alternative to doing something local.
          Would ya mind pointing out exactly where you get this information, Whooter? From the wording in the recent announcement (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30744&p=369104#p369104) there is NO mention of "choice" or "alternative." In fact, the implication is quite the opposite:

            ...we are excited to announce that Academy at Sisters now provides Parent Coaching through Next Step for Success to all incoming families.[/list]

            In fact, chances are, any parents who do not want to go along with this will be chastised for not doing their best to "help" their daughter! That's pretty much the way it works in most of these hellholes. :D

            See: ALSO (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30744&start=270#p369336).
            No, the program provides it as a service.  Its not mandatory, I am sure they push hard  for(or maybe strong arm) the parents to sign up because they get a kick back but parents can work in their own direction if they choose.  I think overall it is a good idea to work with the school so that the issues that are uncovered or surface from the child can be communicated and addressed at home.

            But you need to remember that this is a family issue and changes need to be made by all parties involved.  Some parents chose counseling, others sign up with the program, others do nothing and hope the child gets fixed.
            Yeah, but where do you get the information that it is just "a service," and not "mandatory?" Moreover, what do you base this statement on: "It works for some families but others dont take to it well?"

            Usually, parents are not given the choice of opting out of these types of "services." Moreover, to my knowledge, Academy at Sisters has not made public any info that some parents in the test group were less than 100% enthusiastic about coaching from Next Step for Success.

            This is either a spiel that you made up off the top of your head, or... you have additional info from Academy at Sisters that you've obtained personally. Is Academy at Sisters yet another "collaborative partner" of STICC? Is STICC offering a scholarship to Academy at Sisters for its next charity case?
            Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
            Post by: SUCK IT on July 11, 2010, 07:13:29 PM
            Ok this is off topic, but it has to be said. Does anyone notice that Ursus is so quick and diligent in spending time to discredit Whooter posts. But then up comes a Piles of Dead Kid post about how it's good advice to smear shit on your face, stab your escort, or purposely send yourself to jail and not a peep. Dysfunction Junction thought the smearing shit on yourself and walls strategy would be effective, but didn't denounce the strategy. If you people want credibility you should spend more time discrediting your own extremists than attempting to discredit Whooter. Unless you are all extremists, which is what it appears like when you remain silent for some people but then protest loudly for others.
            Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
            Post by: Paul St. John on July 11, 2010, 07:20:29 PM
            I see you have recharged and recouped.

            What is your technique?  How do you bring yourself back after you have a panic like the other night..... when the walls in your mind start to break down, and all you can do is delete all your posts?

            Do you have a specific protocol to overcome your conscience, or do you just rest up a bit?

            Paul
            Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
            Post by: Froderik on July 11, 2010, 10:16:32 PM
            Quote from: "SUCK IT"
            Unless you are all extremists, which is what it appears like when you remain silent for some people but then protest loudly for others.
            There's a certain truth in this, generally speaking. I won't go so far as to say if it's true in relation to those mentioned in the post; I really try not to pay too much attention to all of the back-and-forth anymore... though I admire those who take the time to speak their minds about these important issues (for lack of better word...I dislike the word "issues" for some reason, though I frequently use it myself.)

            Also, if you would please explain about your avatar / gender / screen name, I'd appreciate it...thanks.
            Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
            Post by: Whooter on July 11, 2010, 11:26:54 PM
            Quote from: "Ursus"
            Usually, parents are not given the choice of opting out of these types of "services." Moreover, to my knowledge, Academy at Sisters has not made public any info that some parents in the test group were less than 100% enthusiastic about coaching from Next Step for Success.

            We had a similar parent package from swift river.  It was an audio course family building series of tapes.  Parents were told they needed to complete the course while their son or daughter were in the program  (I think ours was included and didnít cost extra).  Aspen use to sell it on their web site also.  But some of the parents took to it and others did not.  It depends on the individual family issues.  Some parents donít think they have anything to work on and that it was all on the kids to get the help and others realized it was a family issue in their case.  So it depended on the family.  I am sure AAS is seeing the same response.



            Quote
            This is either a spiel that you made up off the top of your head, or... you have additional info from Academy at Sisters that you've obtained personally. Is Academy at Sisters yet another "collaborative partner" of STICC? Is STICC offering a scholarship to Academy at Sisters for its next charity case?

            I am looking at it from a business perspective.  You spend the standard price for your kid to go to AAS and then they toss some extras your way like a family service, transitional service, after care service, escort service, individual therapy etc.   Like at the drive through when they ask you if you would like to super size it!! Lol  They hire another agency to handle the extras and AAS focuses on the kids and they get a kickback for every parent package they sell out on the free market.

            If you still really think I am this Reuben guy why doesnít someone call him and speak to him?  You have his phone number, address and email.  This has been going on for over a year now.  I cant believe that you still take this connection seriously.




            ...
            Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
            Post by: Nihilanthic on July 12, 2010, 03:56:58 AM
            :jawdrop: http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Daniel_Gauss (http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Daniel_Gauss) :jawdrop:

            Who could have done such a thing?
            Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
            Post by: Whooter on July 12, 2010, 07:38:48 AM
            It is interesting that you place the names and addresses of 15 year old girls on the internet while you remain anonymous and hide in the shadows.  If a child got hurt in a program you would be the first ones to point the finger of blame yet you donít have any problem placing these children in harmís way yourself.  You use these children as pawns in your personal vengeance against programs and personal enjoyment without thought to their safety.

            Pile of dead kids and Niles you are both cowards and by your actions it is easy to see this is not the first time someone has called you this.



            ...
            Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
            Post by: Oscar on July 12, 2010, 09:09:35 AM
            I have spoken with the network behind Spft (http://http://www.secretprisonsforteens.dk/) and I have been given the task to condemn the publication of this family.

            While we recommend that the teenager enroll friends and extended family to create rescue groups on community networks so the teenagers can be freed from the detention they have been placed in without a preceeding legal process, we strongly believe that such a public fight must the choice of the teenager who are detained at a program.

            Morgan should have been entitled to privacy until she decide otherwise. She is the only one who is at risk of loosing her human right to live in freedom. No what we may believe which is right, it is her future and no one else.

            Damn you. Can you not avoid overstepping the line of common dignity?
            Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
            Post by: Troll Control on July 12, 2010, 09:16:24 AM
            Quote from: "Whooter"
            In my daughters case it was a smooth transition with the credits being accepted by her local school since we were in the same state.

            By "smooth transisiton" do you mean "took five years to graduate high school"?  Can you explain to us why if your daughter was "well ahead academically" and "all of her credits transferred" why she was unable to graduate high school in three or four years instead of five?  Forgive me, but that just doesn't make sense mathematically.
            Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
            Post by: Whooter on July 12, 2010, 10:21:27 AM
            Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
            Quote from: "Whooter"
            In my daughters case it was a smooth transition with the credits being accepted by her local school since we were in the same state.

            By "smooth transisiton" do you mean "took five years to graduate high school"?  Can you explain to us why if your daughter was "well ahead academically" and "all of her credits transferred" why she was unable to graduate high school in three or four years instead of five?  Forgive me, but that just doesn't make sense mathematically.


            I define ďTransitionĒ (as it is being used here) as the gap between leaving the program and entering the childs new highschool from a credit transfer standpoint.  If both the program and the childs highschool are in the same state and the credits earned from the childs program can be easily transferred back to the childs high school at the end of his/her stay, I would consider this a "smooth transition" (from a credit transfer vantage-point).  This was the case with my daughter.

            I can understand your confusion there is a lot aspects being discussed.  
            Lets take a hypothetical situation where a boy starts high school in Sep. 2005 and fails almost every course in his freshman year.  He starts in a program in September 2006.  He starts his academics in Nov 2006 and remains at the program for 14 months during which time he covers over 2 years worth of work during his stay there.   He graduates from the program in the Winter of 2008.   The child takes a year off starting in the summer to work with disabled people and completes his high school the following year 2010.  This would cover the 5 year period.



            ...
            Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
            Post by: Ursus on July 12, 2010, 11:38:20 AM
            Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
            So, quick recap:

            1. The company hired to help manipulate the parents is entirely from CEDU.
            Quote from: "Whooter"
            exactly and the parents have a choice whether or not they chose to embrace this strategy.  It works for some families but others dont take to it well.  I think it is good that they offer this as an alternative to doing something local.
            Quote from: "Ursus"
            Would ya mind pointing out exactly where you get this information, Whooter? From the wording in the recent announcement (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30744&p=369104#p369104) there is NO mention of "choice" or "alternative." In fact, the implication is quite the opposite:

              ...we are excited to announce that Academy at Sisters now provides Parent Coaching through Next Step for Success to all incoming families.[/list]

              In fact, chances are, any parents who do not want to go along with this will be chastised for not doing their best to "help" their daughter! That's pretty much the way it works in most of these hellholes. :D

              See: ALSO (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30744&start=270#p369336).
              Quote from: "Whooter"
              No, the program provides it as a service.  Its not mandatory, I am sure they push hard  for(or maybe strong arm) the parents to sign up because they get a kick back but parents can work in their own direction if they choose.  I think overall it is a good idea to work with the school so that the issues that are uncovered or surface from the child can be communicated and addressed at home.

              But you need to remember that this is a family issue and changes need to be made by all parties involved.  Some parents chose counseling, others sign up with the program, others do nothing and hope the child gets fixed.
              Quote from: "Ursus"
              Yeah, but where do you get the information that it is just "a service," and not "mandatory?" Moreover, what do you base this statement on: "It works for some families but others dont take to it well?"

              Usually, parents are not given the choice of opting out of these types of "services." Moreover, to my knowledge, Academy at Sisters has not made public any info that some parents in the test group were less than 100% enthusiastic about coaching from Next Step for Success.
              Quote from: "Whooter"
              We had a similar parent package from swift river. It was an audio course family building series of tapes. Parents were told they needed to complete the course while their son or daughter were in the program (I think ours was included and didnít cost extra). Aspen use to sell it on their web site also. But some of the parents took to it and others did not. It depends on the individual family issues. Some parents donít think they have anything to work on and that it was all on the kids to get the help and others realized it was a family issue in their case. So it depended on the family. I am sure AAS is seeing the same response.
              You still did not answer my question:

              Yeah, but where do you get the information that it is just "a service," and not "mandatory?" Moreover, what do you base this statement on: "It works for some families but others dont take to it well?"[/list]

              Moreover, to my knowledge, Next Step for Success does not offer "an audio course family building series of tapes." It's either something along the lines of a series of five coaching calls taking place via telephone (~$625-750, my guess), or it's more involved and also includes interaction via seminars taking place at the program (price unknown).

              Quote from: "Ursus"
              This is either a spiel that you made up off the top of your head, or... you have additional info from Academy at Sisters that you've obtained personally. Is Academy at Sisters yet another "collaborative partner" of STICC? Is STICC offering a scholarship to Academy at Sisters for its next charity case?
              Quote from: "Whooter"
              I am looking at it from a business perspective. You spend the standard price for your kid to go to AAS and then they toss some extras your way like a family service, transitional service, after care service, escort service, individual therapy etc. Like at the drive through when they ask you if you would like to super size it!! Lol They hire another agency to handle the extras and AAS focuses on the kids and they get a kickback for every parent package they sell out on the free market.

              If you still really think I am this Reuben guy why doesnít someone call him and speak to him? You have his phone number, address and email. This has been going on for over a year now. I cant believe that you still take this connection seriously.
              You still didn't answer my question. Is this information something you just made up to sound important, or did you obtain it personally?
              Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
              Post by: Whooter on July 12, 2010, 11:46:32 AM
              Quote from: "Ursus"
              Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
              So, quick recap:

              1. The company hired to help manipulate the parents is entirely from CEDU.
              Quote from: "Whooter"
              exactly and the parents have a choice whether or not they chose to embrace this strategy.  It works for some families but others dont take to it well.  I think it is good that they offer this as an alternative to doing something local.
              Quote from: "Ursus"
              Would ya mind pointing out exactly where you get this information, Whooter? From the wording in the recent announcement (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30744&p=369104#p369104) there is NO mention of "choice" or "alternative." In fact, the implication is quite the opposite:

                ...we are excited to announce that Academy at Sisters now provides Parent Coaching through Next Step for Success to all incoming families.[/list]

                In fact, chances are, any parents who do not want to go along with this will be chastised for not doing their best to "help" their daughter! That's pretty much the way it works in most of these hellholes. :D

                See: ALSO (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30744&start=270#p369336).
                Quote from: "Whooter"
                No, the program provides it as a service.  Its not mandatory, I am sure they push hard  for(or maybe strong arm) the parents to sign up because they get a kick back but parents can work in their own direction if they choose.  I think overall it is a good idea to work with the school so that the issues that are uncovered or surface from the child can be communicated and addressed at home.

                But you need to remember that this is a family issue and changes need to be made by all parties involved.  Some parents chose counseling, others sign up with the program, others do nothing and hope the child gets fixed.
                Quote from: "Ursus"
                Yeah, but where do you get the information that it is just "a service," and not "mandatory?" Moreover, what do you base this statement on: "It works for some families but others dont take to it well?"

                Usually, parents are not given the choice of opting out of these types of "services." Moreover, to my knowledge, Academy at Sisters has not made public any info that some parents in the test group were less than 100% enthusiastic about coaching from Next Step for Success.
                Quote from: "Whooter"
                We had a similar parent package from swift river. It was an audio course family building series of tapes. Parents were told they needed to complete the course while their son or daughter were in the program (I think ours was included and didnít cost extra). Aspen use to sell it on their web site also. But some of the parents took to it and others did not. It depends on the individual family issues. Some parents donít think they have anything to work on and that it was all on the kids to get the help and others realized it was a family issue in their case. So it depended on the family. I am sure AAS is seeing the same response.
                You still did not answer my question:

                  Yeah, but where do you get the information that it is just "a service," and not "mandatory?" Moreover, what do you base this statement on: "It works for some families but others dont take to it well?"[/list]

                  Moreover, to my knowledge, Next Step for Success does not offer "an audio course family building series of tapes." It's either something along the lines of a series of five coaching calls taking place via telephone (~$625-750, my guess), or it's more involved and also includes interaction via seminars taking place at the program (price unknown).

                  Quote from: "Ursus"
                  This is either a spiel that you made up off the top of your head, or... you have additional info from Academy at Sisters that you've obtained personally. Is Academy at Sisters yet another "collaborative partner" of STICC? Is STICC offering a scholarship to Academy at Sisters for its next charity case?
                  Quote from: "Whooter"
                  I am looking at it from a business perspective. You spend the standard price for your kid to go to AAS and then they toss some extras your way like a family service, transitional service, after care service, escort service, individual therapy etc. Like at the drive through when they ask you if you would like to super size it!! Lol They hire another agency to handle the extras and AAS focuses on the kids and they get a kickback for every parent package they sell out on the free market.

                  If you still really think I am this Reuben guy why doesnít someone call him and speak to him? You have his phone number, address and email. This has been going on for over a year now. I cant believe that you still take this connection seriously.
                  You still didn't answer my question. Is this information something you just made up to sound important, or did you obtain it personally?

                  I got it from my experience at ASR.  They provided a service to the parents.  Ours was an audio course for parents (I am sure each program has a different approach).  The one AAS uses may be different.  Some parents it works for and others donít take it to it too well.  I think it depends on the parents and how they view their contribution (if any) to the problem.  If the parents think that they need to do some work also then they may embrace the parents portion that they sell, otherwise they take a pass on the whole thing.

                  Each family situation is different.



                  ...
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: MorganMDC on July 12, 2010, 02:01:02 PM
                  :soapbox:
                  Really?
                  Title: +++
                  Post by: Pile of shit on July 12, 2010, 02:11:26 PM
                  +++
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: DannyB II on July 12, 2010, 02:17:52 PM
                  Quote from: "MorganMDC"
                  Quote from: "Oscar"
                  Morgan should have been entitled to privacy until she decide otherwise. She is the only one who is at risk of loosing her human right to live in freedom. Not what we may believe is right, it is her future and no one elses.
                  I didn't think privacy before the program was going to be an issue.
                  I suppose I thought wrong.

                  Quote from: "Nihilanthic"
                  :jawdrop: http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Daniel_Gauss (http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Daniel_Gauss) :jawdrop:

                  Who could have done such a thing?
                  This is sick.
                  Just sick.
                  Whomever decided this was a good idea was a fucking idiot.
                  I am not blind to things, however I wished I would've never had the misfortune of reading this.
                  What was this meant to accomplish?
                  Well, I hope it did.

                  MORGAN,
                  if you can let this go that would be a good thing and concentrate on the issues at hand. Good folks here had been giving you healthy advice to think about. Most of the posters here really do care about your circumstances and want to see you come out of this situation as healthy as possible.
                  Your questions concerning academics and the curriculum at the academy your going to were great questions, what have you found out so far or better yet maybe Oscar, Ursus or Whooter have found more information to give you. I am really at a loss here to help in this area but I am great at supporting you. I can be there to talk and be a friend, I also went through a program, though it was years ago.
                  Take care
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: kleenex on July 12, 2010, 02:20:31 PM
                  Quote from: "MorganMDC"
                  Quote from: "Oscar"
                  Morgan should have been entitled to privacy until she decide otherwise. She is the only one who is at risk of loosing her human right to live in freedom. Not what we may believe is right, it is her future and no one elses.
                  I didn't think privacy before the program was going to be an issue.
                  I suppose I thought wrong.

                  Quote from: "Nihilanthic"
                  :jawdrop: http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Daniel_Gauss (http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Daniel_Gauss) :jawdrop:

                  Who could have done such a thing?
                  This is sick.
                  Just sick.
                  Whomever decided this was a good idea was a fucking idiot.
                  I am not blind to things, however I wished I would've never had the misfortune of reading this.
                  What was this meant to accomplish?
                  Well, I hope it did.

                  MORGAN TELL ME IF YOU UNDERSTAND THE FOLLOWING, BECAUSE I DONT THINK YOU DO:

                  Once you get to Academy at Sisters, or once you are "escorted" to Academy at Sisters, you will NOT BE ALLOWED TO LEAVE.

                  You will be physically prevented from leaving.

                  Do you understand that?

                  You are walking into a prison which you will not be able to leave of your own accord.
                  You will be physically prevented from escaping through retraints, guarding, locks, and any other number of means. Eventually, (very possibly) you will be not be able to leave because of psychological damage.

                  You can be kept as there as long as your parents want you there, FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE, possibly.

                  But, at least, and without any need for legal finangaling, until you are 18.

                  DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS?
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Paul St. John on July 12, 2010, 05:19:55 PM
                  Kleenex, I am assuming you are "Pile".

                  She does not fully understand it, and it is frustrating, but you have done nothing to help her understanding of it.  There comes a point, where right or wrong, you just start to seem like an obsessed, crazy person..

                  Paul
                  Title: +++
                  Post by: Pile of shit on July 12, 2010, 06:53:03 PM
                  +++
                  Title: +++
                  Post by: Pile of shit on July 12, 2010, 06:58:57 PM
                  +++
                  Title: +++
                  Post by: Pile of shit on July 12, 2010, 07:04:30 PM
                  +++
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Nihilanthic on July 12, 2010, 07:14:44 PM
                  Uh, no you moron.

                  My sidekicks have piles of dead kids.

                  http://encyclopediadramatica.com/File:Baww2.png (http://encyclopediadramatica.com/File:Baww2.png) also, this. Looks like the pro-program people on this board have a vested interest in this too. Need I remind everyone I didn't put the page up. But I am an ED editor. It's neither my place, responsibility nor within my power to take something down. Check the fucking edit history.

                  It's not my responsibility to teach people how to use one of the easiest interfaces in the history of man.
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Whooter on July 12, 2010, 08:21:46 PM
                  Quote from: "Pile of shit"
                  Pile of Dead Kids has another side kick - Nihilanthic

                  Good catch... POS

                  Niles, you are a coward.  You know this yourself because this isnt the first time you have been told this.  You're a scared piece of crap that needs to scare little girls to make yourself feel like a man.  You go around telling people you have a high IQ but then run away from every discussion.  You are not fooling anyone.

                  I can guarantee you will be posting from jail someday.



                  ...
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Nihilanthic on July 12, 2010, 08:31:23 PM
                  Quote from: "Whooter"
                  Quote from: "Pile of shit"
                  Pile of Dead Kids has another side kick - Nihilanthic

                  Good catch... POS

                  Niles, you are a coward.  You know this yourself because this isnt the first time you have been told this.  You're a scared piece of crap that needs to scare little girls to make yourself feel like a man.  You go around telling people you have a high IQ but then run away from every discussion.  You are not fooling anyone.

                  I can guarantee you will be posting from jail someday.



                  ...
                  lmfao.

                  Because jails have computers and posting publicly available information in one place is illegal so I go to internet jail to post from a cell?

                   :rofl:
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Nihilanthic on July 12, 2010, 08:48:25 PM
                  brb going to jail
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Paul St. John on July 12, 2010, 09:22:31 PM
                  Quote from: "Pile of shit"
                  Quote from: "Paul St. John"
                  Kleenex, I am assuming you are "Pile".

                  She does not fully understand it, and it is frustrating, but you have done nothing to help her understanding of it.  There comes a point, where right or wrong, you just start to seem like an obsessed, crazy person..

                  Paul


                  Paul I am not Kleenex I don't like Pile of Dead Kids for what he did to Morgan that's all.  He crossed the line and you fuckers are giving the guy a blow job.  Why do you think he isn't around Paul?  Perhaps he isn't around for a good reason.  The dudes a fucking weasel taking advantage of younger girls.  Fuck Pile.  Period.  You guys hate Whooter but he has never did anything this terrible.


                  Whooter, what I am saying is that I don't think PILE OF DEAD KIDS has disappeared, as you say, but that he is "Kleenex", and so I was addressing him.  Did you even read what I wrote, you crazy bastard.  And now you are starting to seem like a crazy, obsessed person.  I love the way, this all becomes about... this person did this, but you don t like Whooter!  LOL!  

                  I disagree with what he did.  I am actually very surprised he did it.... very surprised he did it!  

                  But, like I said, there is enough condemnation, and I am just going to say that it was a fucked up thing to do.  I am not going to publicly yell ta him, and I guess the reason is that I have some respect for him based on past experience. .. and that there just is no point.

                  I also understand a bit why he did it... I think he really did want to help Morgan.  I think he really took a liking to her, and is trying to protect her.  I think as the time drew more near, he felt helpless, and did something stupid.  

                  I also think, (I am sorry), that he did not endanger her all that much.. If predators want to find young girls... well, they are pretty much everywhere.

                  What he did was fucked up, just because it was, and I am sure that it put Morgan, even more at odds with her parents.

                  And I go back to my original thoughts.. She has to get to 18 and get out.. Morgan, If you are reading this, I hope it is clear that this was a single person who did this.  You still did the right thing by researching.  

                  and Pile, if you are reading- Stop being an asshole.  You owe this girl an apology.

                  Paul
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Nihilanthic on July 12, 2010, 09:27:04 PM
                  I think everyone is still beating around the bush about what kind of scolding her parents deserve for saying "okay hunny we're going to have strangers take you away so we can blame them for you not being the way we want you to".

                  Which is the problem fornits has always had. Everyone always sugarcoats and coddles parents no matter what, when they're the fucking adults here.

                  If anyone really wants to get it taken down, get on ED's IRC (irc.encyclopediadramatica.com) and go to #ED or #arbchat and ask for arbitration. If you're reasonable and not an angry idiot or a whiney baby, they might work with you.

                  Or, well, don't. I don't really care anymore. I just see two gigantic babies crying about someone airing their dirty laundry a lot more than what they're about to do to their own child and can't really feel any sympathy for them in light of it.
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Paul St. John on July 12, 2010, 09:44:03 PM
                  Quote
                  I think everyone is still beating around the bush about what kind of scolding her parents deserve for saying "okay hunny we're going to have strangers take you away so we can blame them for you not being the way we want you to".

                  I agree with you, but the girl is subject to the parents, and by fucking them, you fucked the girl.

                  She would not have condoned this.  He screwed her, because he thought he knew best.  Nothing is gained from this.

                  Paul
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Nihilanthic on July 12, 2010, 09:52:40 PM
                  Was anything really lost?
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Whooter on July 12, 2010, 09:54:02 PM
                  Quote from: "Nihilanthic"
                  I think everyone is still beating around the bush about what kind of scolding her parents deserve for saying "okay hunny we're going to have strangers take you away so we can blame them for you not being the way we want you to".

                  Which is the problem fornits has always had. Everyone always sugarcoats and coddles parents no matter what, when they're the fucking adults here.

                  If anyone really wants to get it taken down, get on ED's IRC (irc.encyclopediadramatica.com) and go to #ED or #arbchat and ask for arbitration. If you're reasonable and not an angry idiot or a whiney baby, they might work with you.

                  Or, well, don't. I don't really care anymore. I just see two gigantic babies crying about someone airing their dirty laundry a lot more than what they're about to do to their own child and can't really feel any sympathy for them in light of it.

                  Look, Niles, not all parents are like yours, dragging you from a crappy North Carolina apartment down to Florida with the promise of a better life where your mom still sits on the couch all day depressed while you have to help protect your little sister from the nothingness that occurs everyday and hopes she gets to live a normal life someday.

                  You donít need to smack down every parent you see because you cant stand up to your own.  You know nothing about Morganís parents or the details which led up to Morgan coming on here to fornits.  Your anger is not for them and didnít come from here.  It comes from yourself and your own family.  So donít pretend fornits is the problem.  You love this stuff and you "rage" from the thought that Morgans parents are suffering because you donít have the balls to face your own parents and tell them how they fucked up your life and your sisters and how hard you worked to keep her life normal in spite of their lack of parenting.

                  Youíre the one that needs help.  Yeah, people are crying around you but you think it is funny because you like to see others in the same pain that you are in.

                  Get some help for yourself and leave the Morgans alone.  You havenít helped anyone.



                  ...
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Nihilanthic on July 12, 2010, 10:01:12 PM
                  I love how you try (and fail) to personally attack me while going on about how bad it is if someone does the same.  ::deadhorse::

                  Keep showing those true colors whootie
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Nihilanthic on July 12, 2010, 10:03:20 PM
                  Actually no now I'm sad and literally crawling in my skin  :sue:
                   :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Whooter on July 12, 2010, 10:08:30 PM
                  Quote from: "Nihilanthic"
                  I love how you try (and fail) to personally attack me while going on about how bad it is if someone does the same.  ::deadhorse::

                  Keep showing those true colors whootie

                  How close was I?  A little close or fucking dead nuts on!!!  Raleigh, North Carolina... is that closer?  Would you like someone to put the name of your mothers  latest boyfriend or your sisters name and what she does now a days.  How about your name and last name?  Would that be funny?

                  Could we all have a laugh?  Would you think it was a big deal?

                  Its not so funny now is it!!!!.... are you still laughing?



                  ...
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: DannyB II on July 12, 2010, 10:14:59 PM
                  ...
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Nihilanthic on July 12, 2010, 10:18:19 PM
                  You mean "you're". For example, you are gay -> "you're gay" not "your gay", meaning it's a gay you own.

                  You can't own people! Just kids.

                  I'm also quite fine, my mother does have cancer, however, and don't see what she has to do with this. I'm sorry I'm too scary to talk about or try to debate with without trying to bring my mom into it, but hey, YOUR MOM! always works, right?

                  I mean you type like a school kid after all.
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: DannyB II on July 12, 2010, 10:24:53 PM
                  .....
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Whooter on July 12, 2010, 10:28:54 PM
                  Quote from: "Nihilanthic"
                  You mean "you're". For example, you are gay -> "you're gay" not "your gay", meaning it's a gay you own.

                  You can't own people! Just kids.

                  I'm also quite fine, my mother does have cancer, however, and don't see what she has to do with this. I'm sorry I'm too scary to talk about or try to debate with without trying to bring my mom into it, but hey, YOUR MOM! always works, right?

                  I mean you type like a school kid after all.


                  Dont look for sympathy with your mom.....You suck because you hurt people for enjoyment especially little girls.  You know I know who you are and where you live and that info did not come from fornits.  You know the information I posted was accurate and that I could post more.  You must also know that you have been investigated on-line several times for you penchant need for online porn sites which if reveled will define you as one of  the sickest persons I have ever come across.

                  You can blame your parents if you like but keep the fuck away from other families and their kids or you will go down.  I mean that!!  Back away NilesÖ.. remove Morgans name and address from that site and get your pleasure elsewhere.



                  ...
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Nihilanthic on July 12, 2010, 10:34:45 PM
                  hahahahahahaha oh god. This is the funniest shit I have read in a long time.

                  hey whootie post it all. Please.

                  Also ED already moved the dox, but please, post them anyway! Post about everyone's sexual habits too while you're at it. Why did you wait until now, hmm?

                  I like how you're resorting to program tactics to defend programs as not being what we say they are, that's the best part of this  :roflmao:
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Nihilanthic on July 12, 2010, 10:35:59 PM
                  Quote from: "DannyB II"
                  Paul, I am not jumping on the Pile (pile) but we all saw this coming for months, how he talked to parents with blatant disregard for their situation, he spoke to them with vulgarity saved usually for a enemy.
                  He has never been there as far as I know, so why all the support (he is not a fellow programme) or is it just because he speaks the same language. (we will except anyone)
                  I know you got close with him so I will not belabor my point, just wanted to understand the attraction to Pile. But I guess this can happen in a PM, I don't want to disrespect the guy anymore then I have.

                  Yeah, how dare we not coddle adults for being idiots, assholes, apathetic, stupid, or well intended but just inept - or just gullible.

                  We have to appreciate how the consumer is always right and the child is the product.
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Whooter on July 12, 2010, 10:37:01 PM
                  Quote from: "Nihilanthic"
                  .

                  .....ED already moved the dox,

                  Thank you.  You're sick Niles, get some help.  I am serious.



                  ...
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Nihilanthic on July 12, 2010, 10:39:56 PM
                  Quote from: "Whooter"
                  Quote from: "Nihilanthic"
                  .

                  .....ED already moved the dox,

                  Thank you.  You're sick Niles, get some help.  I am serious.



                  ...
                  POST IT FAGGOT  :seg:
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Nihilanthic on July 12, 2010, 10:43:14 PM
                  I mean since "INTERNET INVESTIGATION" threats only really work on people who are so stupid and don't know how the internet works, and I'm not one of them, I'd love to see what bullshit you've managed to come up with.

                  Really.

                  Or are you just going over ED right now looking for shit and making it up? Actually, I think you just earned an ED article of your own.
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Nihilanthic on July 12, 2010, 10:43:35 PM
                  Also the dox have been and will remain in the revisions forever  :agree:
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Paul St. John on July 12, 2010, 10:55:43 PM
                  Quote from: "DannyB II"
                  Quote from: "Paul St. John"
                  Quote from: "Pile of shit"
                  Quote from: "Paul St. John"
                  Kleenex, I am assuming you are "Pile".

                  She does not fully understand it, and it is frustrating, but you have done nothing to help her understanding of it.  There comes a point, where right or wrong, you just start to seem like an obsessed, crazy person..

                  Paul


                  Paul I am not Kleenex I don't like Pile of Dead Kids for what he did to Morgan that's all.  He crossed the line and you fuckers are giving the guy a blow job.  Why do you think he isn't around Paul?  Perhaps he isn't around for a good reason.  The dudes a fucking weasel taking advantage of younger girls.  Fuck Pile.  Period.  You guys hate Whooter but he has never did anything this terrible.


                  Whooter, what I am saying is that I don't think PILE OF DEAD KIDS has disappeared, as you say, but that he is "Kleenex", and so I was addressing him.  Did you even read what I wrote, you crazy bastard.  And now you are starting to seem like a crazy, obsessed person.  I love the way, this all becomes about... this person did this, but you don t like Whooter!  LOL!  

                  I disagree with what he did.  I am actually very surprised he did it.... very surprised he did it!  

                  But, like I said, there is enough condemnation, and I am just going to say that it was a fucked up thing to do.  I am not going to publicly yell ta him, and I guess the reason is that I have some respect for him based on past experience. .. and that there just is no point.

                  I also understand a bit why he did it... I think he really did want to help Morgan.  I think he really took a liking to her, and is trying to protect her.  I think as the time drew more near, he felt helpless, and did something stupid.  

                  I also think, (I am sorry), that he did not endanger her all that much.. If predators want to find young girls... well, they are pretty much everywhere.

                  What he did was fucked up, just because it was, and I am sure that it put Morgan, even more at odds with her parents.

                  And I go back to my original thoughts.. She has to get to 18 and get out.. Morgan, If you are reading this, I hope it is clear that this was a single person who did this.  You still did the right thing by researching.  

                  and Pile, if you are reading- Stop being an asshole.  You owe this girl an apology.

                  Paul

                  Paul, I am not jumping on the Pile (pile) but we all saw this coming for months, how he talked to parents with blatant disregard for their situation, he spoke to them with vulgarity saved usually for a enemy.

                  I strongly disagreed with the way he talked to the parents.. also nihilanthic... It is completely stupid to insult people, when you are trying to get them to come around to hearing out and consider your ideas.  As soon as you start insulting people, they resent you, and are no longer receptive to you.  It just doesn t makes sense.  People have to control themselves.

                  But, no, I actually didn t see this coming.  I think what he really killed "Pile", is that for awhile he though he had succeeded. He thought he had done it...

                  .. and then his victory was robbed from him.


                  He has never been there as far as I know, so why all the support (he is not a fellow programme) or is it just because he speaks the same language. (we will except anyone)

                  I am not supporting him.  I'm just not gonna lynch him.  I think he acted like an asshole, and to be honest, I thought he was a bit of an immature asshole, before all this too.

                  I just am not going to jump on the bandwagon.. that is all.  It is over.  This has nothing to fucking do with WHOOTER!  But right away.. "Oh my god!  Someone did something bad, and they didn t condemn him, just because he hates programs too!   AHA!  I got them.. This is my chance to prove my point."


                  Danny, look at what we are talking about.  Look at the name of this thread.. and then you have the people carrying on about it.. Leave it alone.. He didn t fuck anyone in this site.  he screwed Morgan.. Everyone should really stop being equally as stupid as Pile was.

                  Look, we are all a bit selfish.  We cannot help it.  We all have our points to prove.. but it is possible to be selfish, and still have an honest concern for others.  I think everyone cared about this girl's fate, cause in the end we are all decent people.  Let's put it back on track.  I have learned.  Every thing a person does goes into my picture that I have of them in my mind.  I have learned more about Pile, and I now consider him a well-intentioned perspn, that i simply do not trust- not because of bad intentions, but because he is stupid.


                  BUt I can t lie to you... there is a part of me that understands his perspective, and Niles.  they both make points.  I can t help it.

                  It's that desire to fight the good fight at any cost.



                  I know you got close with him so I will not belabor my point, just wanted to understand the attraction to Pile.

                  I never got those close to him.  

                   But I guess this can happen in a PM, I don't want to disrespect the guy anymore then I have.

                  It is what it is, Danny.. I just don t see the need to make a show of it.

                  The guy fucks up, and it is demanded that I should want to slit his throat.  Well, I don't.  

                  I can live with it.  Still surprised by it.  By I ll draw my final conclusions in my time.

                  Paul
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Nihilanthic on July 12, 2010, 10:57:37 PM
                  I'm pretty sure he's busy laughing his ass off right now.

                  Just a guess. Sorry to interrupt the circlejerk let's go back to it.  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Paul St. John on July 12, 2010, 10:58:35 PM
                  Quote from: "Nihilanthic"
                  I'm pretty sure he's busy laughing his ass off right now.

                  Just a guess. Sorry to interrupt the circlejerk let's go back to it.  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:


                  Back to what?
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Nihilanthic on July 12, 2010, 11:07:02 PM
                  The white knight circle jerk about who is mad and who is the most mad and why should they be mad and how mad they are.
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Paul St. John on July 12, 2010, 11:09:09 PM
                  How 'bout we all just ignore you and go about our lives?

                  Time to crash for ol' Paul..

                  Peace..
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Nihilanthic on July 12, 2010, 11:13:11 PM
                  Yeah everyone except Morgan right.
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Whooter on July 12, 2010, 11:18:38 PM
                  Morgan, Your personal information has been removed from the ED site.  It was not up long enough to endured very many hits so I dont think you are at any risk.  Although those who created and posted the site do possess the information.  

                  If you or your parents  feel unsafe or receive any phone calls which may be suspicious in nature or further harassment from posters here on fornits specifically "nihilanthic" or "Pile of Dead kids".  You should call: 800-843-5678,

                  check out our site at
                  Cyber Tip Line/ Exploited Children (http://http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PageServlet?LanguageCountry=en_US&PageId=2936)


                  I am sorry your family fell into this mess at this rough time in your lives.  I am sure things will work out for you but refrain from exposing any more personal info on this site.  By luck, you happened to run into some rough characters.



                  ...
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Nihilanthic on July 12, 2010, 11:39:48 PM
                  I'll be sure to speed that process along by turning myself in.
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Nihilanthic on July 12, 2010, 11:40:07 PM
                  I'm still waiting on just what your INTERNET INVESTIGATION brought up.
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Nihilanthic on July 12, 2010, 11:51:07 PM
                  So where's that horrible shit you were going to say about me, hmm?

                   :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:
                   :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:
                   :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:
                   :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:
                   :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Relic on July 13, 2010, 12:06:38 AM
                  hello I am nihilanth's good friend and buddy on the internet Relic

                  I would just like to tell nihilanth that we are here for him always and he needs to work out this tranny problem in a constructive enviroment with good friends who will support him

                  thank you
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Nihilanthic on July 13, 2010, 12:09:39 AM
                  Hi Relic thanks for understanding.

                  The Who, what is a good program for a young man with tranny issues?
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Nihilanthic on July 13, 2010, 12:10:10 AM
                  Also that's what he was going to post I bet. I'm so ashamed.

                   :waaaa:  :waaaa:  :waaaa:  :waaaa:  :waaaa:  :waaaa:  :waaaa:  :waaaa:  :waaaa:  :waaaa:  :waaaa:  :waaaa:  :waaaa:  :waaaa:  :waaaa:  :waaaa:
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Relic on July 13, 2010, 12:16:30 AM
                  nihilanth I understand you enjoy posting on this forum on a variety of occasions and I do not wish to embarass you in front of your other friends but you must lay off the tranny for us and everyone else involved!!!
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Nihilanthic on July 13, 2010, 12:18:52 AM
                  Okay I will!!! I won't anymore I'm sorry.

                  So what do we do about whooter saying I mess with kids because I don't even
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Relic on July 13, 2010, 12:20:48 AM
                  You must stop blaming others for you problems, admitting you have a problem is the first step!
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Nihilanthic on July 13, 2010, 01:04:14 AM
                  It's nobody's fault but my own, I admit it.

                  Sorry everyone.
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Che Gookin on July 13, 2010, 02:49:24 AM
                  Quote from: "Nihilanthic"
                  I'm pretty sure he's busy laughing his ass off right now.

                  Just a guess. Sorry to interrupt the circlejerk let's go back to it.  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:  :sue:

                  heh, yeah knowing Pile he's probably howling with laughter.
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Troll Control on July 13, 2010, 08:46:43 AM
                  Quote from: "Whooter"
                  If you or your parents feel unsafe or receive any phone calls which may be suspicious in nature or further harassment

                  LOLS.  This is the same guy who called me "paranoid" for calling the police when I got death threats via telephone.  He made a big joke of it.  Now it's some poor "non-Fornits" person being "harassed" and this idiot is all over it like white on rice.  Whooter is an epic PHONY of epic proportions.

                  PARENTS, beware of "Fornits pedophiles"!  If you post on Fornits your kid will be "harassed" by "Fornits pedophiles"!

                  Notice now how he's also threatening to "expose Niles' identity" after crying like a little bitch for weeks that "Fornits" tried to do that to him, but he would "never do that" because it's not his "style."  Again, TOTAL PHONY LIAR. :beat:

                  Shut up already, baby.  Go cry a river somewhere else.
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Che Gookin on July 13, 2010, 12:09:37 PM
                  It isn't exactly a secret as to who Niles actually is. He's pretty open about it. Which is probably why he's finding this all so amusing.
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Che Gookin on July 13, 2010, 12:18:16 PM
                  At this point I'd be more worried about all those creepy pedos that work for those programs that don't believe in background checks, the same pedos who watch fornits for easy pickings. You know.. the sort of sickos who lurk around the girl's loo.. I bet they would have been all over Morgan's docs.
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Troll Control on July 13, 2010, 12:25:25 PM
                  Quote from: "Che Gookin"
                  At this point I'd be more worried about all those creepy pedos that work for those programs that don't believe in background checks, the same pedos who watch fornits for easy pickings. You know.. the sort of sickos who lurk around the girl's loo.. I bet they would have been all over Morgan's docs.

                   :notworthy:  :cheers:   Programs are a pedo's dream.  No background checks, no supervision and if they get caught the program sweeps it under the rug and doesn't notify the authorities so as to avoid "bad press."  What's not to love if you're a pedo?
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Ursus on July 13, 2010, 12:40:45 PM
                  Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
                  Quote from: "Che Gookin"
                  At this point I'd be more worried about all those creepy pedos that work for those programs that don't believe in background checks, the same pedos who watch fornits for easy pickings. You know.. the sort of sickos who lurk around the girl's loo.. I bet they would have been all over Morgan's docs.
                  :notworthy:  :cheers:   Programs are a pedo's dream.  No background checks, no supervision and if they get caught the program sweeps it under the rug and doesn't notify the authorities so as to avoid "bad press."  What's not to love if you're a pedo?
                  And if they have to get rid of the perp, then it's off to another program he goes, or to a Waldorf School for awhile, if circumstances necessitate laying real low.  :D
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Troll Control on July 13, 2010, 12:54:19 PM
                  Or, fuck it, just open up a program right next to the Academy at Sisters.

                  Quote
                  Steven Gage will probably spend the rest of his life in prison.

                  Gage, 43, the former proprietor of Royal Haven Equestrian Center for Girls near Sisters, was sentenced to 45 years behind bars on 27 counts of theft, criminal mistreatment and sex abuse of teenage girls under his care.


                  I would be more worried about the program pedophiles lurking around the Academy than I would about any Fornits poster.  Notice he had an "equestrian center" as well.  Pedos must love kids and horses.
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Whooter on July 13, 2010, 01:25:58 PM
                  Quote from: "Ursus"
                  Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
                  Quote from: "Che Gookin"
                  At this point I'd be more worried about all those creepy pedos that work for those programs that don't believe in background checks, the same pedos who watch fornits for easy pickings. You know.. the sort of sickos who lurk around the girl's loo.. I bet they would have been all over Morgan's docs.
                  :notworthy:  :cheers:   Programs are a pedo's dream.  No background checks, no supervision and if they get caught the program sweeps it under the rug and doesn't notify the authorities so as to avoid "bad press."  What's not to love if you're a pedo?
                  And if they have to get rid of the perp, then it's off to another program he goes, or to a Waldorf School for awhile, if circumstances necessitate laying real low.  :D

                  Any place where there are lots of kids is a pedo's dream.. highschool, boarding schools, grammar school, programs, daycare.  There seems to be a new teacher every week going to jail, from our public school system, for abusing a child.  Not sure if it is lack of background checks, training or what, but it needs to be addressed.  The key, from my perspective, is to do background checks on all your employees.  If any parents are concerned they can check the schools' policy and insure background checks are done.  The same with getting credits transferred after graduation.  If you ask the right questions and do your homework up front then you can feel comfortable in the choice you make.  These items on your list should "not" contain question marks after them.



                  ...
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: DannyB II on July 13, 2010, 01:27:44 PM
                  !
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: DannyB II on July 13, 2010, 01:38:31 PM
                  ...
                  Title: +++
                  Post by: Pile of shit on July 13, 2010, 01:41:29 PM
                  +++
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Whooter on July 13, 2010, 01:58:41 PM
                  The reason the ED was put up was because Morganís parents saw right through their false front and Niles,Pile and Joel etal.  got their ears pinned back and they donít respond well to level discussions so they responded with attacks.    I have been telling people here for years that parents are not going to go for all that mind control, kidnapping, and gulag crap.  That stuff may be fun here on fornits but parents see right through your motives.  If kids were really being kidnapped and brainwashed it would make international news.

                  They were even trying to fool Morgan with that crap that she would be sent to a prison and never being able to go home again and her parents will get a court order to keep her there past her 18th birthday. Lol.  We might see that stuff on late night tv but once you try that line on someone your credibility is gone imo.

                  Some advice, If you feel these places are not right and donít treat children properly then come out and state that.  Have a level discussion and share your experiences.  But if you start being dishonest and lying to parents you will never catch their ear or take you seriously.



                  ...
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: DannyB II on July 13, 2010, 03:24:29 PM
                  ..
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Whooter on July 13, 2010, 06:26:26 PM
                  Wow!!!!!!

                  Quote
                  Whootie:
                  Dont look for sympathy with your mom.....You suck because you hurt people for enjoyment especially little girls. You know I know who you are and where you live and that info did not come from fornits. You know the information I posted was accurate and that I could post more. You must also know that you have been investigated on-line several times for you penchant need for online porn sites which if reveled will define you as one of the sickest persons I have ever come across.

                  You can blame your parents if you like but keep the fuck away from other families and their kids or you will go down. I mean that!! Back away NilesÖ.. remove Morgans name and address from that site and get your pleasure elsewhere.


                  Nihilanthic:
                  ED already moved the dox,

                  Whootie:
                  Thank you. You're sick Niles, get some help. I am serious.

                  viewtopic.php?p=369601#p369601 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=369601#p369601)
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Nihilanthic on July 13, 2010, 08:25:48 PM
                  Whootie white knighting me was the best laugh I had in fucking ages.

                  Hey whooter who the fuck are you? Are you Reuben or not?  :boycott:
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Pile of shit on July 14, 2010, 12:50:37 AM
                  Quote from: "Nihilanthic"
                  Whootie white knighting me was the best laugh I had in fucking ages.

                  Hey whooter who the fuck are you? Are you Reuben or not?  :boycott:




                  @ Whooter > Niles gets busted trying to delete his original post. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30797 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30797) Read the first paragraph.
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Oscar on July 14, 2010, 07:13:19 AM
                  Covergaard has written a blog post about this case and he is angry:

                  Sometime the fight for human rights feels like a lost cause (http://http://secret-prisons-for-teens.blogspot.com/2010/07/sometime-fight-for-human-rights-feels.html), Secret Prisons for Teens blogpost, July 14, 2010
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Che Gookin on July 14, 2010, 07:34:03 AM
                  That's one long convoluted blog that I didn't even bother to finish reading. Is there a shorter version of that mess?
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: SUCK IT on July 14, 2010, 02:33:36 PM
                  Quote from: "Oscar"
                  Covergaard has written a blog post about this case and he is angry:

                  Sometime the fight for human rights feels like a lost cause (http://http://secret-prisons-for-teens.blogspot.com/2010/07/sometime-fight-for-human-rights-feels.html), Secret Prisons for Teens blogpost, July 14, 2010

                  I've been pretty busy and haven't been commenting on this drama. My argument here at fornits has been against extremism, and now a lot of posters are posting about how they want to talk about this topic as well, I find this to be a good step in the right direction. By posting this information about a family all the posters did was prove me and other people who talk about extremism on this forum correct.

                  This is a quote from this blog post:
                  Quote
                  Sadly she got far from good counseling. At Fornits you find many who have been sent to residential treatment centers when they were children. But it is not all. They were guinea pigs for treatment methods where many have since been banned and sadly also many treatment methods which were just refined but still included methods which would be a criminal offense in many countries. It did cause damage. Fornits does also include poster working for the industry trying to downplay the history of residential treatment. It is difficult to explain how frustrated the survivors are just because they donít have physically evidence of the damage the so-called treatment has caused. Had they just received a lobotomy then it would be like clear evidence before the court of time.

                  The problem with Fornits is that the present of the lobbyists from the modern industry is like a red cloth before their faces. The most extreme of the survivors do hold their parents accountable because they pay for their torment. They fail to realize that their parents failed their jobs as parents because they were poorly guided by not only the professionals at the program but also by politicians using youth crime and so-called antisocial behavior to be re-elected. The last 30 years of experiments at residential programs will be something the society will have to pay for the next 50 years.

                  Some show Morganís parents as evil and they decide to create a page targeted against the parents. I have difficulties how to find words for this action. I cannot condemn it enough. While the parents have received poor guidance they donít need to be attacked in this way.

                  The argument I'm reading here is that "survivors" of treatment program are so frustrated with not being able to prove to Whooter they were abused, that they have become so angry that these survivors decided to post this families information. This is incorrect, and highly insulting to anyone who posts here who did go to a program. This information was posted by people who did not go to a treatment program.  This argument is insulting to me and probably the other people who went to programs here because it's just plain wrong. I applaud Anne Bonney and the other people who condemned this attack on this family.

                  I think this has been an important development in fornits psychology, because the actions of these non survivor extremists have opened the eyes of some survivors as to the unrestrained extremism that is posted here and ultimately harms fornits. What parents are going to come here for advice now? None. dysfunction junction spins his usual conspiracy theories, blaming me and Whooter for posting it. Whatever helps him sleep better at night, apparently conspiracy theories and a loaded shotgun do the trick. For dysfunction, rather than seeing this as confirmation of me and Whooter's argument against fornits extremism, he creates his own delusional reality to reassign blame to those more fitting in his mind. But everybody else has reacted in a way that has made me proud, and I don't say that in an arrogant way. I am busy with a new job and will not be able to post here as much or at all anymore, but I am optimistic that a lot of posters here have drawn a line in the sand and are unwilling to be so extreme as to discredit themselves and harm innocent people. I think this is a very good thing.

                  As far as this organization's blog that has decided to blame the information posted on people who went to a program, so emotionally disturbed they are unwilling to control their rage, this is completely incorrect and should be corrected. The people who posted this information never went to treatment, just as the organization making the accusation in this blog never went to treatment. Yet somehow the blame gets pinned on the people who did go to treatment, something is very wrong with that. It shows "survivors" are not the ones who are so extreme after all perhaps, it is dysfunction junction who seems obsessed with Whooter (dyfunsction is not a survivor) and the people who posted the information are not survivors either. Most of the bullshit on this forum is not posted by so called survivors, but by the other people. I felt the need to post to point this out, for all "Survivors" sake.  This will be my last post under the username Suck IT. If I choose to post again it will be under a new username, this one is officially being retired. I am very pleased with the people here for fighting extremism and will choose a more respectful username to show my appreciation. Thanks
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: DannyB II on July 14, 2010, 02:42:32 PM
                  ...
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Troll Control on July 14, 2010, 02:42:55 PM
                  Quote from: "SUCK IT"
                  I...will not be able to post here as much or at all anymore.

                  Well...bye.
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on July 15, 2010, 01:52:38 AM
                  SUCK IT is this guy.

                  (http://http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/0/07/Baww2.png)
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Pile of shit on July 15, 2010, 03:23:40 AM
                  Well, it's our friendly neighborhood child stalker Pile of Dead Kids.  Who knows, Pile could be the next duct tape rapist?  Pile do you feel better now that you tried to split up a family?  You are a real winner.  WOW!!!
                  Title: Chesley Strowd at NorthStar Center in 2008
                  Post by: Ursus on July 16, 2010, 02:41:39 PM
                  Quote from: "Ursus"
                  Quote from: "Whooter"
                  Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
                  And in case you think that anyone's talking about therapy as it is understood by the actual psychological world, take a good look at the CEDU forum.
                  Why should anyone look at the CEDU forum?  I believe CEDU closed.  You should check the thread title, Pile.  This is Academy at Sisters.
                  As you well know, the heads of the hydra (http://http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hydra) that is CEDU keep cropping up again and again. For some reason, CEDU philosophy, methodologies and protocols have worked their way into more than just a program or two in the state of Oregon.

                  Mount Bachelor Academy was, of course, the most infamous one of late ... due, for the most part, to their utilization of the Lifesteps seminars/workshops which were based on CEDU's seminars/workshops. Another Aspen program in Oregon which also uses Lifesteps is NorthStar.

                  And here, in this very thread, with regard to Academy at Sisters, a number of references and connections to CEDU have already cropped up...
                  Speaking of NorthStar Center, that is, a program which utilized (and probably still does) the "emotional growth" Lifesteps seminar curriculum based on CEDU's seminars/workshops, and Chesley Strowd, Admissions Director at Academy of Sisters, which utilizes a parent coaching system involving ex-CEDU staff and admins... It turns out that... Strowd actually took on a job at NorthStar as their Admissions Director for a brief period in 2008. How ever brief that was, I do not know, but she subsequently returned to Academy of Sisters where she had been employed since 2003.

                  Here's the announcement from Struggling Teens:

                  -------------- ē -------------- ē --------------

                  Breaking News
                  Posted: Aug 14, 2008 05:02

                  NorthStar Center
                  Bend, OR


                  Strowd New Admissions Director For Northstar Center (http://http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/publish/NorthstarCenterBN_080814.shtml)

                  Contact:
                  Sean Fievet
                  Executive Director
                  541-385-8657
                  http://www.northstarcenter.com (http://www.northstarcenter.com).

                  NorthStar Center is a program of Aspen Education Group, the nation's leading provider of therapeutic education programs for struggling or underachieving young people. Aspen's services range from short-term intervention programs to residential treatment, and include a variety of therapeutic settings such as boarding schools, outdoor behavioral health programs and special needs summer camps, allowing professionals and families the opportunity to choose the best setting to meet a student's unique academic and emotional needs. Aspen is a division of CRC Health Group, the nation's largest chemical dependency and related behavioral health organization. For over two decades, CRC Health has been achieving successful outcomes for individuals and families.

                  Copyright ©2010, Woodbury Reports, Inc.
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Whooter on July 16, 2010, 05:58:06 PM
                  But Ursus, she is an admissions director.  You seem to think because you can find a connection that the place is CEDU based.  When CEDU closed there were tons of people out of work and where would they go?  To other programs!  If McDonalds closed then people may flock to Burger King because people typically stay within the area that they know.  But if we went to Burger King you probably couldn't get a Big Mac.

                  Each program has a model that they run by and employees that they hire are trained to implement this model.  If the employee which use to work for McDonalds started making special sauce and putting it on hamburgers he would be fired.  The same with the employees that came to programs from CEDU, they are trained to the model that is established.

                  What if you found out that an employee was Jewish, would that make the program Jewish based?  or if an employee was found to be a member of the KKK, would that redefine the whole program?
                  Maybe they are CEDU and Maybe they are not but that needs to be determined by what model they work to and the components that support it...i.e life steps etc.

                  Do you see what I mean?



                  ...
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Paul St. John on July 16, 2010, 09:51:54 PM
                  Quote from: "Whooter"
                  But Ursus, she is an admissions director.  You seem to think because you can find a connection that the place is CEDU based.  When CEDU closed there were tons of people out of work and where would they go?  To other programs!  If McDonalds closed then people may flock to Burger King because people typically stay within the area that they know.  But if we went to Burger King you probably couldn't get a Big Mac.

                  Each program has a model that they run by and employees that they hire are trained to implement this model.  If the employee which use to work for McDonalds started making special sauce and putting it on hamburgers he would be fired.  The same with the employees that came to programs from CEDU, they are trained to the model that is established.

                  What if you found out that an employee was Jewish, would that make the program Jewish based?  or if an employee was found to be a member of the KKK, would that redefine the whole program?
                  Maybe they are CEDU and Maybe they are not but that needs to be determined by what model they work to and the components that support it...i.e life steps etc.

                  Do you see what I mean?



                  ...

                  You gotta love it....


                  Whooter's World-Where Child Abuse is Comparable to Special Sauce!
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Whooter on July 16, 2010, 10:54:07 PM
                  Quote from: "Paul St. John"
                  You gotta love it....


                  Whooter's World-Where Child Abuse is Comparable to Special Sauce!

                  If you twisted it a little it could be viewed as child abuse if you wanted to see it that way.  But my intention was to show that the process used at CEDU doesnít necessarily follow the employees to their new jobs.



                  ...
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Ursus on July 16, 2010, 11:27:55 PM
                  Quote from: "Whooter"
                  Quote from: "Paul St. John"
                  You gotta love it....


                  Whooter's World-Where Child Abuse is Comparable to Special Sauce!
                  If you twisted it a little it could be viewed as child abuse if you wanted to see it that way.  But my intention was to show that the process used at CEDU doesnít necessarily follow the employees to their new jobs.
                  I imagine that it's pretty hard to become a convincing exponent of CEDU unless you are able to internalize it and eventually, to believe it. That's why folks who've voluntarily spent a long time at CEDU ... are often Lifers. CEDU is not "just a job" to these folk; it's a way of life.

                  For the record, lest Whooter trump up more charges of my "misleading readers," LOL ... I am NOT saying that Academy at Sisters is a CEDU program. I don't think we know enough yet about this program to jump to any such conclusions, one way or another.

                  I AM, however, saying that there are a disturbing number of CEDU influences and connections, particularly in key areas that really matter, when it comes to ascertaining a specific program's ideology and methodology of influence, namely: 1.) parental indoctrination, 2.) financial support, and 3.) the marketing interface between the real world and the world according to program. Y'all can make of it what you will.
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Paul St. John on July 17, 2010, 12:00:08 AM
                  Quote from: "Whooter"
                  Quote from: "Paul St. John"
                  You gotta love it....


                  Whooter's World-Where Child Abuse is Comparable to Special Sauce!

                  If you twisted it a little it could be viewed as child abuse if you wanted to see it that way.  But my intention was to show that the process used at CEDU doesnít necessarily follow the employees to their new jobs.



                  ...


                  And my point, is that we are talking about people here.  We are talking about their habits, their view of life, their orientation, their personal philosophy.

                  Going from being a harmful person by nature who hurts kids, to being a good person, who actually has a positive impact on their lives, is just a tad bit more of a career adjustment then the extreme effort required to abstain from putting special sauce on burgers.


                  You are right.  A person from McD's would try to get a job at Burger King, because they are very similar.

                  You are almost making the argument, yourself.

                  Helpful verse harmful is not similar.  It is an extraordinarily huge difference. A lot bigger then special sauce.

                  In a more sensible metaphor, Burger King and McDonalds would both be CEDU programs, with slight differences. For example different ways of fucking with people.

                  Now, Programs would be the food industry at large, and perhaps, a helpful, beneficial program would be like a 4 star restaurant or something to that effect. I don't think too many 4 star restaraunts would hire someone based on their fast food experience, but just as you said, another fast food place would hire them, where all they have to learn is to replace a big mac with a Whopper.

                  This all sounds kind of silly, but it's not. This is a far more realistic metaphor and the one that you are attempting to use is misleading.



                  And even yet another more accurate way to look it-  Bearing in mind, the reputation of the CEDU programs.......

                  If you opened a food establishment of any type, would you hire employees of an establishment known for poisoning people, and feel completely like all is well, and good, because in your new establishment, poisoning people is not part of the new system that you have trained them in?

                  Paul St. John
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Froderik on July 17, 2010, 09:56:57 AM
                  Isolated incidents (http://http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=30786&p=370063#p370063)
                  Title: Academy at Sisters; parent contract for Next Step for Succes
                  Post by: Ursus on July 17, 2010, 03:40:00 PM
                  Here's the contract parents need to sign re. the Next Step for Success parent coaching sessions. Although language therein states that it is "not required," I kinda have my doubts as to how that will go down in practice. This is on page 6 of the 8-page contracts & releases (http://http://www.academyatsisters.org/Applications/ReleaseFormsCombined.pdf) bundle that Oscar posted earlier (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30744&start=270#p369339).

                  Note that both logos are on this contract:

                  -------------- ē -------------- ē --------------

                  (http://http://www.academyatsisters.org/images/academy-logo2.gif)
                  (http://http://www.nextstepforsuccess.com/images/nextstep_header.jpg)

                  PARENT COACHING RELEASE
                   
                   
                  I, ____________________, am the parent/guardian of ____________________ (student). Student's date of birth is ______________.  As the parent/guardian of student, I am authorized to consent to the release of information concerning student. I hereby authorize The Academy at Sisters, or its agents, to release general information to Next Step for Success concerning student and parent/guardian for the purpose of Next Step for Success Parent Coaches obtaining information and documentation related to student/parent/guardian as necessary.
                   
                  I understand that the information submitted or received may be protected by federal and/or state law and that I am not required to sign this consent. It is my understanding that all information concerning student will be treated as confidential by The Academy at Sisters, or their agents. This document has been explained to my satisfaction.  
                   
                  This consent shall remain in effect until the earlier of: termination of student's enrollment at The Academy at Sisters, or until Student's 18th birthday.
                   
                  A person or entity to which a duplicate of this release (containing copies of signatures of the parties) is delivered may rely on the duplicate, whether provided by photocopy, facsimile, or otherwise. They may also rely on the representation of The Academy at Sisters that studentís enrollment is current.
                   
                   
                  DATED this ____ day of __________________, ______.
                   
                   
                  ___________________________  
                       Parent/Guardian Signature
                   
                  ___________________________      _________________________  
                             Witness Signature ∑  Witness Printed Name


                  Page 1 of 1 ∑ The Academy at Sisters ∑ Revised 4/2010
                  Title: Re: Academy At Sisters and Next Step For Success
                  Post by: Ursus on August 22, 2010, 07:38:14 PM
                  More discussion re. the "philosophy" imparted via the Valentines' coaching endeavors can be found in this short thread; some folk may recognize some CEDU lingo:

                  Owning the problemviewtopic.php?f=9&t=24748 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=24748)[/list]
                  Title: Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
                  Post by: Joel on August 23, 2010, 04:51:23 AM
                  Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Whooter on August 23, 2010, 08:03:06 AM
                  Quote from: "Paul St. John"
                  If you opened a food establishment of any type, would you hire employees of an establishment known for poisoning people, and feel completely like all is well, and good, because in your new establishment, poisoning people is not part of the new system that you have trained them in?

                  I donít think many establishments would have a problem hiring these people.  What you donít seem to understand is that people donít generally wake up each morning with the intent and desire to harm others.  If the restaurant were harming or poisoning people then it is probably embedded in their process somewhere.  Each establishment has a different process which they dictate and control (not the employees).

                  The fallacy in your argument is that you assume that all the people programs hire are evil by nature.  



                  ...
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Che Gookin on August 25, 2010, 07:29:30 AM
                  I need someone who has actually spoken to Morgan's parents over the phone to contact me, quickly.. it is important.

                  I have a question or two based on your experiences with them.
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Oscar on August 25, 2010, 02:41:54 PM
                  ?I know that it is kind of personal, but are we talking of aftermath of a divorce here? The facility boast that they can work wonders for the parent who have custody.

                  How we can help: Children of Divorce (http://http://dealingwithtroubledteens.com/2010/05/how-we-can-help-children-of-divorce/)

                  Sometime when a step-parent enters the life of a teenager and the birth-parent let the step-parent enforce rules against the advice given by any professional, the teenager can think that the grass is greener over at the other birth-parent. Then some boarding school provide a service where they can isolate the teenager for the benefit of the parent who has custody and use the time is isolation to alienate the teenager against the non-custodial parent.

                  I found another comment (http://http://www.washingtonwatch.com/bills/show/110_HR_5876.html) from a mother backup their presence in this kind of activity.

                  Quote
                  Like Joyce my daughter was put in the Academy at Sisters by her father. I fought in the courts to get her out but these places will lie and turn the kids against the parent trying to protect them. They are cults. The staff is untrained, frequently are "survivors" of these programs who can't make it in the real world and they makes decisions about these kids that can impact their futures. The accreditation organization (NATSAP) is a joke-a paper tiger. They have standards these places agree to follow such as having a grievance procedure for the students and allowing a "diversity" of opinion but there are no consequences for non-compliance. It's amazing that more training and licensing is required for someone to cut my hair or do a manicure than is required for someone working with troubled youth.
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on August 25, 2010, 06:21:28 PM
                  From the looks of things, the program doesn't even want her anymore.

                  Can't possibly fathom why.
                  Title: on Whooter's methods of propaganda
                  Post by: Ursus on August 25, 2010, 07:06:05 PM
                  Quote from: "Whooter"
                  Quote from: "Paul St. John"
                  If you opened a food establishment of any type, would you hire employees of an establishment known for poisoning people, and feel completely like all is well, and good, because in your new establishment, poisoning people is not part of the new system that you have trained them in?
                  I donít think many establishments would have a problem hiring these people.  What you donít seem to understand is that people donít generally wake up each morning with the intent and desire to harm others.  If the restaurant were harming or poisoning people then it is probably embedded in their process somewhere.  Each establishment has a different process which they dictate and control (not the employees).

                  The fallacy in your argument is that you assume that all the people programs hire are evil by nature.
                  The fallacy in your argument, Whooter, is that you introduce a new premise (despite attributing its insertion to Paul), namely that Paul "assume that all the people programs hire are evil by nature." You then subsequently attempt to win your propaganda war by pointing out the inherent illogic in said introduced premise.

                  I don't think anyone is trying to convince readers that programs only hire evil people. Certainly, I fail to discern it in Paul's post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30744&start=375#p370061) above. And yet, here ya are, trying to convince folks that that is just what was said...

                  I call ... fail.  :D
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on August 25, 2010, 07:10:25 PM
                  Programs don't only hire evil people; sometimes they make mistakes.
                  Title: Academy at Sisters, 'New Perspectives' (May, 2007)
                  Post by: Ursus on August 25, 2010, 07:30:01 PM
                  Here's a 'New Perspectives' from Struggling Teens from about three years ago:

                  -------------- ē -------------- ē --------------

                  New Perspectives
                  Posted: May 13, 2007, 12:24


                  ACADEMY AT SISTERS (http://http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/publish/article_5815.shtml)

                  Bend, Oregon
                  Chesley Strowd
                  800-910-0412
                  http://www.academyatsisters.org (http://www.academyatsisters.org)

                  (Although Academy at Sisters is not a new program, we have never written a New Perspectives on them.)

                  Academy at Sisters is a small boarding school for teen girls ages 13 thru 18. Located at the base of the Three Sisters Mountains in Oregon, the Academy is tucked into the lodge pole pines at the bottom of the Cascade Mountains. The typical student profile may include at-risk girls who have run away, chosen poor peer relationships, have poor boundaries, have difficulty in school with truancy or learning disorders, have ADD and/or ADHD, have drug or alcohol issues or anger issues, or young women who have put themselves in dangerous situations and are beyond parental control.

                  The Academy offers a "personal growth program in tandem with academic requirements". Using the "Cognitive Behavior Therapy model, the cognitive structure shapes attitudes, values and belief systems which in turn reinforces cognitive structure and determines behavior". The clients are provided with weekly therapeutic groups with a minimum of one individual counseling session per week. Accredited by the Northwest Association of Accredited Schools and registered with the Oregon Department of Education, the Academy has year round school, operating on a system of five terms annually with a spring, summer and holiday recess.

                  With the wilderness areas so close, Central Oregon provides a backdrop for the young women to participate in "team building exercises" along with many challenging and recreational activities which include rock climbing, river rafting, skiing, camping, hiking and canoeing. On campus they offer soccer, sand volleyball, court sports and an extensive Equestrian program.


                  Copyright © 2010, Woodbury Reports, Inc.
                  Title: Betsy Jacobson-Warren, formerly of Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Ursus on October 09, 2010, 05:48:40 PM
                  EdCon Dore Frances would appear to be quite cozy with the Academy at Sisters. Former Academy Director Betsy Jacobson-Warren also became an EdCon, and went to work with Frances 'bout five years ago:

                  JACOBSON-WARREN/ FRANCES PARTNERS (http://http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/publish/article_5095.shtml)

                  (May 28, 2005) Dore E. Frances, Educational Consultant, Bend, OR, 208-667-9098, announced that Betsy Jacobson-Warren, Bend, OR, 541-598-0550, has joined her team as an educational consultant. Prior to joining Dore Frances, Betsy was the Director of The Academy at Sisters in Bend, OR, for 10 years.[/list]
                  Title: Re: on Whooter's methods of propaganda
                  Post by: Whooter on October 09, 2010, 06:22:08 PM
                  Quote from: "Ursus"
                  Quote from: "Whooter"
                  Quote from: "Paul St. John"
                  If you opened a food establishment of any type, would you hire employees of an establishment known for poisoning people, and feel completely like all is well, and good, because in your new establishment, poisoning people is not part of the new system that you have trained them in?
                  I donít think many establishments would have a problem hiring these people.  What you donít seem to understand is that people donít generally wake up each morning with the intent and desire to harm others.  If the restaurant were harming or poisoning people then it is probably embedded in their process somewhere.  Each establishment has a different process which they dictate and control (not the employees).

                  The fallacy in your argument is that you assume that all the people programs hire are evil by nature.
                  The fallacy in your argument, Whooter, is that you introduce a new premise (despite attributing its insertion to Paul), namely that Paul "assume that all the people programs hire are evil by nature." You then subsequently attempt to win your propaganda war by pointing out the inherent illogic in said introduced premise.

                  I don't think anyone is trying to convince readers that programs only hire evil people. Certainly, I fail to discern it in Paul's post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30744&start=375#p370061) above. And yet, here ya are, trying to convince folks that that is just what was said...

                  I call ... fail.  :D

                  So if they are not "all" evil by nature than a staff member can leave an abusive program and easily move into a none abusive program with new procedures.  I think the point being made is if a program hires a staff member who use to work at CEDU it doesnt mean the new program becomes CEDU based.  The staff members would be working to new procedures and a current model.
                  If McDonalds hires a guy that use to work at Burger King it doesnt mean that this new employee will be free to make Whoopers.  He will be required to work to a new procedure.

                  This discussion ended I believe because we got sidetracked with other issues.  It was good to review and conclude this.



                  ...
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Dimonax on December 06, 2010, 03:46:43 AM
                  One thing that Teens in this situation should seriously consider is running down to the nearest recruiting office and enlisting. At 16, legally, your old enough to join up. Be it the Guard, Marine Corps., Army, Navy, whatever.
                  They'll need to have a Diploma or a G.E.D., but the recruiters will usually help em out with that.

                  Once they've signed the dotted line, then legally their an adult and there's not much the parents can do about it. Of course they'll have to serve out the term of service, but if the postings on this site are any indication, that might be considerably shorter than a stay at one of these laughing academies.

                  I would suggest Morgan do that, she has to be close to 16 now. It'll be her own choice, and she'll get a hell of a lot better education than even a private school could provide. A college degree all paid for. etc...

                  Just something to consider.

                  Dimonax
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Whooter on December 06, 2010, 01:29:07 PM
                  Quote from: "Dimonax"
                  One thing that Teens in this situation should seriously consider is running down to the nearest recruiting office and enlisting. At 16, legally, your old enough to join up. Be it the Guard, Marine Corps., Army, Navy, whatever.
                  They'll need to have a Diploma or a G.E.D., but the recruiters will usually help em out with that.

                  Once they've signed the dotted line, then legally their an adult and there's not much the parents can do about it. Of course they'll have to serve out the term of service, but if the postings on this site are any indication, that might be considerably shorter than a stay at one of these laughing academies.

                  I would suggest Morgan do that, she has to be close to 16 now. It'll be her own choice, and she'll get a hell of a lot better education than even a private school could provide. A college degree all paid for. etc...

                  Just something to consider.

                  Dimonax

                  Thats a great idea.  I wasnt aware kids could do that at age 16.  A few months in boot camp typically would straighten out any issues the child may have with accountability, responsibility, weight issues etc..  This would also alleviate the need for the parents to dip into the retirement account.  I think this is what kids did prior to programs.



                  ...
                  Title: Re: on Whooter's methods of propaganda
                  Post by: Dysfunction Junction on December 06, 2010, 02:01:04 PM
                  Quote from: "Ursus"
                  Quote from: "Whooter"
                  Quote from: "Paul St. John"
                  If you opened a food establishment of any type, would you hire employees of an establishment known for poisoning people, and feel completely like all is well, and good, because in your new establishment, poisoning people is not part of the new system that you have trained them in?
                  I donít think many establishments would have a problem hiring these people.  What you donít seem to understand is that people donít generally wake up each morning with the intent and desire to harm others.  If the restaurant were harming or poisoning people then it is probably embedded in their process somewhere.  Each establishment has a different process which they dictate and control (not the employees).

                  The fallacy in your argument is that you assume that all the people programs hire are evil by nature.
                  The fallacy in your argument, Whooter, is that you introduce a new premise (despite attributing its insertion to Paul), namely that Paul "assume that all the people programs hire are evil by nature." You then subsequently attempt to win your propaganda war by pointing out the inherent illogic in said introduced premise.

                  I don't think anyone is trying to convince readers that programs only hire evil people. Certainly, I fail to discern it in Paul's post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30744&start=375#p370061) above. And yet, here ya are, trying to convince folks that that is just what was said...

                  I call ... fail.  :D

                  After replay, the call stands.
                  Title: Re: on Whooter's methods of propaganda
                  Post by: Whooter on December 06, 2010, 02:12:14 PM
                  Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"

                  After replay, the call stands.

                  I think we agree!! You never had too much to say:

                  Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=388432#p388432)



                  ...
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Dysfunction Junction on December 06, 2010, 02:27:32 PM
                  Quote from: "Ursus"
                  The fallacy in your argument, Whooter, is that you introduce a new premise (despite attributing its insertion to Paul), namely that Paul "assume that all the people programs hire are evil by nature." You then subsequently attempt to win your propaganda war by pointing out the inherent illogic in said introduced premise.

                  And, should that fail, he breaks out the "You molest your own children" meme.
                  Title: RP: Academy of Sister
                  Post by: Whooter on December 06, 2010, 04:18:20 PM
                  Quote from: "Dimonax"
                  One thing that Teens in this situation should seriously consider is running down to the nearest recruiting office and enlisting. At 16, legally, your old enough to join up. Be it the Guard, Marine Corps., Army, Navy, whatever.
                  They'll need to have a Diploma or a G.E.D., but the recruiters will usually help em out with that.

                  Once they've signed the dotted line, then legally their an adult and there's not much the parents can do about it. Of course they'll have to serve out the term of service, but if the postings on this site are any indication, that might be considerably shorter than a stay at one of these laughing academies.

                  I would suggest Morgan do that, she has to be close to 16 now. It'll be her own choice, and she'll get a hell of a lot better education than even a private school could provide. A college degree all paid for. etc...

                  Just something to consider.

                  Dimonax

                  Thats a great idea.  I wasnt aware kids could do that at age 16.  A few months in boot camp typically would straighten out any issues the child may have with accountability, responsibility, weight issues etc..  This would also alleviate the need for the parents to dip into the retirement account.  I think this is what kids did prior to programs.



                  ...
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Anne Bonney on December 06, 2010, 04:23:44 PM
                  Repeat post?
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Whooter on January 10, 2011, 07:46:21 PM
                  Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
                  Repeat post?

                  Okay, Anne one more time, but I could get flagged for flooding:

                  One thing that Teens in this situation should seriously consider is running down to the nearest recruiting office and enlisting. At 16, legally, your old enough to join up. Be it the Guard, Marine Corps., Army, Navy, whatever.
                  They'll need to have a Diploma or a G.E.D., but the recruiters will usually help em out with that.

                  Once they've signed the dotted line, then legally their an adult and there's not much the parents can do about it. Of course they'll have to serve out the term of service, but if the postings on this site are any indication, that might be considerably shorter than a stay at one of these laughing academies.

                  I would suggest Morgan do that, she has to be close to 16 now. It'll be her own choice, and she'll get a hell of a lot better education than even a private school could provide. A college degree all paid for. etc...

                  Just something to consider.

                  Dimonax


                  Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=388356#p388356)

                  ...
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on January 14, 2011, 02:10:44 PM
                  Whichever one of you faggots is pissing her off can stop now.
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Che Gookin on January 14, 2011, 09:42:21 PM
                  you should post the message from her blog that you showed me. Though, honestly, I don't think it is a fornits poster who is bothering her. Sounds way too much like a programmie with all the chatter about, "back up plans".
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Whooter on January 15, 2011, 08:13:05 AM
                  Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
                  Whichever one of you faggots is pissing her off can stop now.

                  Let me get this straight, you , Pile of Dead Kids, want someone to stop pissing off someone else?  Lets say it was you who was pissing someone off or harassing someone on the internet.  How would they get you to stop?  Would you?  lol

                  It is so ironic how you can only see things from your own point of view and have no sense of people around you.  Wasnt it you who said "the crying only wants you to do it more".  

                  You guys expose people on the internet drag then through the mud and then cry about the consequences of your own actions.  You caused this whole situation yourself, Pile, dont blame others.



                  ...
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Froderik on January 15, 2011, 09:55:15 AM
                  I'm not up to speed on what is happening here on this thread..

                  Was Pile being shitty toward someone?

                  (I really am this clueless.)
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Whooter on January 15, 2011, 10:23:32 AM
                  Quote from: "Froderik"
                  I'm not up to speed on what is happening here on this thread..

                  Was Pile being shitty toward someone?

                  (I really am this clueless.)

                  A few months ago a 15 year old girl  came to fornits looking for help because her parents were considering sending her to a program.  Niles and Pile of Dead Kids tricked her into giving them her name and they pasted her picture and name on a porn site for her family and friends to witness.  Her parents tried to get it removed but PODKs just laughed at them.  Now this girl is being harassed and PODKs is trying to blame other people.  He cant see that this is the result of his own actions that are hurting Morgan.  Truly ironic that Pile is asking for help, in my opinion.



                  ...
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Troll Control on January 15, 2011, 12:14:23 PM
                  Actually when we looked at the site Whooter is referencing it was shown he was responsible for a lot of the content that he's trying to blame PODK for.  His handle appeared in several places on the page.
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: shaggys on January 15, 2011, 12:34:32 PM
                  Quote from: "Troll Control"
                  Actually when we looked at the site Whooter is referencing it was shown he was responsible for a lot of the content that he's trying to blame PODK for.  His handle appeared in several places on the page.

                  So Whoot attacks this poor girl and then blames it on Pile? I am asking cause I don't know and just want to get the facts straight. If this were true I would guess that Whoot is behind most of the porno trolling that goes on here as well. Again, just wondering and trying to figure out what exactly is going on here.
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Troll Control on January 19, 2011, 11:50:57 AM
                  Whooter has been known to do things like this fairly regularly.  He normally tries to pin it on RobertBruce, but each time his posts were linked up the truth was revealed (and a lot of scat and gay porn too, you're right about that).  This time he's blaming it on PODK.  I never saw PODK's handle on that site, but I did see Whooter's.
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Oscar on August 04, 2011, 04:42:23 PM
                  A mother left the following comment on the Bring Morgan Home facebook group:

                  I did put some breaks into it to make easier to read.

                  Quote
                  Ex program parent of academy at sister's statement (http://http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=147092125315713&topic=137)

                  I feel I have to post in case there are some parents considering the Academy at Sisters (Bend, Oregon) as an alternative to MBA.

                  My ex-husband put my daughter at the Academy at Sisters and while I am fairly certain they did not do the lap dancing and other forms of sexual role playing, they did engage in other forms of abuse mentioned at MBA. For instance, they will take away school credits and/or remove the student from the public school some of the students get to attend (Bend High School). In my daughters case this was done one week before finals because she made negative comments about the Academy to her father who was fully and completely brainwashed. This frequently happens before a girl is to graduate either from the program or high school in order to keep them longer.

                  They also will force students to be isolated - either in solitary confinement or by not permitting them to interact with the other girls around them. For more than a month my daughter was not allowed to talk to the other girls or eat with them at mealtimes. The Academy even went so far as to tell the other Academy girls who attended Bend High School with my daughter that they had to ignore her and not acknowledge her while she was at school. Why a public high school puts up with shunning is beyond me but it is done frequently.

                  On occasions they ask the girls to disclose embarrassing things about themselves to the group. Privacy and respect are nonexistent. They also have "feedback," that common form of abuse where they can only say "thank you" as all the other girls and staff tell you anything and everything negative about you they can come up with. Since the only way a girl can move up levels and get privledges is by snitching on the other students they will make up complete lies if they have to. The point of all this is that I am sure parents of Mt. Bachelor students are probably looking at alternatives for their kids who have been messed up by their experiences at MBA and can't return home.

                  The Academy at Sisters is not the answer. I would imagine most programs are probably equally as abusive so all I can suggest is that you get a good therapist and maybe find a family member or friend the kid can live with for awhile. They get out of these programs very angry and need a lot of time, space and support to get acclimated to the real world.

                  I was not prepared for the anger I saw when my daughter ran away a couple of weeks before her 18th birthday and was disowned by her father for a period of time. It has taken a couple of years to get to the point where she we no longer has nightmares about the place and she has been able to put it behind her.Academy at Sisters abuse
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Academy_Sisters on August 04, 2011, 09:16:50 PM
                  I read she was freed. What happened? Any updates?
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Oscar on August 05, 2011, 01:02:05 AM
                  Rumors have stated that all her internet activities died out in March so they properly waited until people were busy doing other things and took her.

                  Frankly she didn't get the right type of help here. Instead of going after her family the focus should have been on the specific program. As you can read from my last post in this thread, the information about the poor nature of the program was out there.

                  People were not eyeing the ball but went after hotdogs outside the playing field. Morgan is paying the price right now with a lost youth and nightmares the rest of her life in waiting.

                  I fell ashame that we didn't do enough to prevent this case from going off the rails. Others should do the same.
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Pile of Dead Kids on August 05, 2011, 01:24:29 AM
                  My take is that she disappeared intentionally and won't be back under that name, ever.

                  I severely doubt it's what you think it is, Oscar. Best guess is that she simply does not want to be connected to this anymore.
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Che Gookin on August 05, 2011, 09:19:10 AM
                  My guess is she is laying low. Her tumblr account and shit was giving up too much information for her own good. At one point you could probably have traced her location, as it was apparent she was sure as shit not under her parents roof.

                  She's smart for dropping all these accounts. Best to cut her ties and to keep quiet till she's 18. If anything she strikes me as a highly resourceful young girl. She'll be fine.
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Antigen on February 24, 2012, 10:17:31 AM
                  My spidy senses tell me something is going sideways in Beaverton... What's that? Possible Seedling involvement? Ok! We'll get right on it!
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Xelebes on February 24, 2012, 12:30:29 PM
                  What post are you refering to, Antigen?
                  Title: Re: Academy at Sisters
                  Post by: Antigen on February 24, 2012, 12:45:57 PM
                  Can't say. Wish I could but I can't. Anybody know if anything has changed out there lately?