Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Jeff_Berryman on October 31, 2002, 11:42:00 PM
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One of my associates is in contact with government officials who are ready to close down Tranquility Bay. We need to keep them interested and keep the evidence coming. Everyone with first hand knowledge of TB
who is willing to make a sworn statement please E-mail me at Jeff_Berryman@excite.com. I will forward your E-mail to my associate and she will get back to you with the particulars.
When I mount my horse, ALL THE WINDMILLS IN SPAIN TREMBLE!
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10/31/02 - Mr. Berryman - Aren't you the same Jeff Berryman who is on a mission to post as many different people, working with Sue Scheff? I see it as you posting on BB's to plant seeds of doubt in parents? How many families in crisis did you get from this posting?????
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there is doubt!! he needs names of people at tb, you pro wwasp people dont bother, anyone else please respond even if it is just a name, their trying to find out who is there, this is needed asap
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friends, concerned family, whoever saw someone there, please help with this
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This is confusing, there was a letter from the ISAC parents committee posted today about this.
(See Hot Topics)
:???:
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How URGENT is this? It was posted back in October of last year??
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It is very urgent...Jeff is being sued by WWASP and he needs to do everything he can to prove that all of his accusations against WWASP have been true. His needs to save himself. The more people he can get to accuse WWASP of abuse, the better chance he will have of not being found guilty. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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it is very urgent! if you dont want to tell jeff the e-mail isac
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Is Jeff associated with ISAC? Is ISAC associated with PURE, Inc? Has ISAC ever been associated with either Sue or Jeff? Is ISAC being used as another way for PURE and Berryman to try and claim abuse in order to save themselves?
Are PURE and Berryman trying to plant a seed in the minds of all former parents who have been dissastified with the WWASP school their child attended? Are they trying to get disgruntled former clients to claim abuse?
There is a good possibility that this is what is happening. This would help PURE and Berryman with the suit that WWASP has against them AND at the same time those individuals who may have been unhappy or disgruntled about the program it would give them the opportunity to seek some sort of revenge, justified or not.
I imagine there are a lot of parents who were unhappy about how much they paid to send their child to one of these schools. I imagine in hindsight they realize that they spent a lot of money and got very little in return. Maybe the only way for the parents to obtain any kind of compensation for their mistake would be to make a false claim of abuse. Maybe they see no other way to go after WWASP without it looking like they themselves did something very stupid.
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NO I DOUBT THERE IS ANY CONNECTION, THERE WAS REQUEST SENT FOR A LIST OF CHILDREN AT TB, ALOT OF PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO GET THE INFORMATION, THERE IS NO SEED TO BE PLANTED! THIS IS REAL, IF YOU WOULD OPEN YOUR EYES! GET OFF THIS FORUM AND SEARCH NAMES OF PEOPLE INVOLVED WITH THESE SCHOOLS YOU WOULD SEE!! AND YOUR SAVING YOUR FAMILY!!! I WOULD HATE TO SEE HOW YOU TREAT YOUR DOG!!
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Yes there is a conection. The same group of individuals who support Sue are working with ISAC to bring down WWASP.
I myself know this for a fact. Yes ISAC did remove Sue's link from their website, but they are still coresponding with Jeff and Sue only now through the means of the others who continue to support them. This is exactly how the PURE listserv worked.
Why can't everyone just be honest?
I see so much dishonesty on both sides of this crusade to "help" children, that I don't know who to believe anymore.
I know Dundee was doing a lot of things they should not have been doing. I know that Dundee was flying under the radar of the regulatory agencies in Costa Rica. I know that my children's rights, as well as my own rights were abused by Dundee. I know that my children were subjected to things that they never should have been subjected too.
And there is one more thing I know...when I read anything that is associated with or linked to PURE/Sue/Jeff or any others of those who continue to support the two of them, then I see that there leaves open a lot of room for doubt
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[ This Message was edited by: KarenZ on 2003-10-17 15:34 ]
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On 2003-08-10 07:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Is Jeff associated with ISAC? Is ISAC associated with PURE, Inc? Has ISAC ever been associated with either Sue or Jeff? Is ISAC being used as another way for PURE and Berryman to try and claim abuse in order to save themselves?
Sometimes, you've got to be cruel to be kind. I think this is one of those times, so let me lay it out for you as plainly as I may. I know who ISAC is. I've known some of those people for over 20 years.
I know to a dead certainty that these folks are running on their own impetus in response to things that happened to them all those years ago and the horrifying realization that the same thing is happening to kids now. And it's not just altruism; it's prescience. We (I myself, ISAC members and affiliates and a lot of others who go about handling things in different ways) do NOT want to spend our golden years watching our grand children raised in a world people by psychotics and neurotics like ourselves or where the sadistic bastards who run these programs get a free pass.
Certainly, the more former WWASP clients come forward the better the chances for a favorable outcome for Jeff and Sue. That doesn't mean their case is without merit. There are obvious, plausible and even probable alternative reasons for wanting to contact corroborating witnesses when you're being sued. Ferinstance, the more the merrier for your side because, given the chance, damned near everyone who's not paid to say otherwise will support your arguments.
When it comes right down to it, Jeff and Sue (regardless of what you or I may think of PURE) are trying to get people to come forward and tell what they know. On the other hand, WWASP is spreading around some serious cheese in the form of legal fees, internet hosting expenses, travel, etc. in an ongoing effort to prevent people who know the what happens behind those walls of silence from coming forward with it.
What could possibly be their motivation for that? Can you even come up with a lame excuse for all the letters of demand and other types of threats these lunatics routinely throw around? I've paid too much for things before. Buyer's remorse is not an uncommon concept. But people don't generally go around suing everyone who gets the best of them in a business deal. Why so many and such consistent complaints about WWASP if there's not something to it?
It has ever been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues
--Abraham Lincoln
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I don't doubt that ISAC's intentions are truely pure. I mean that sincerely!. Not for a moment! Nor do I doubt that places like Dundee are abusive! But I will not support nor will I hitch my wagon to others who are also abusive.
I also doubt and always will anything and everything that PURE and Berryman do. They are not out there fighting for children. They are fighting for themselves. They have used my family in their battle only to cause more damage than had already been done by Dundee.
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What i think Pure and Sue Scheif is doing is wrong. They use deceptive marketing pracices as well. What makes PURE any different from WWASP? Nonthing, except that WWASP is so hudge and needs stopped at any cost! I am willing to let Sue Scheif and Mr. Berryman, hell i am willing to help them bring down WWASP! One word to the wise if PURE does not have some major changes like looseing the escorts and more upfront about them and the names of the programs and thats for starters they will be dealt with like WWASP and i will work to close them down! that is after they closed down WWASP...As of now PURE is the lesser of 2 evils. When WWASP is gone the PURE will be the next potential evil empire. Lets close WWASP first then lets close PURE!!!
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Antigen,
What bothers me is the dishonesty. They are associated, no matter how loosly so, they are associated. Why can they not be honest about it?
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Wow, Ginger...this is your very own forum and even you can't keep Scarey Carey from getting the last word, crazy as her words are.
BTW, the random quotes you have stuck on your signature are great! Check this one out from your latest, and apply it to PURE:
It has ever been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues
--Abraham Lincoln
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Anon you said:
Wow, Ginger...this is your very own forum and even you can't keep Scarey Carey from getting the last word, crazy as her words are.
Well here, let me quote my last words, which were in the form of a question:
They are associated, no matter how loosly so, they are associated. Why can they not be honest about it?
If you can answer my question honestly, then you can have the last word.
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Did anyone else associated with PURE (besides Laurie Berg) attend the the conference in Florida?
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Who really cares who attended the conference. Why does it matter? Did I miss something?
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Can anyone get the names of the attendies?
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There were dozens of abuse claims about WWASP *before* PURE ever existed.
It is amazing to me to see WWASP people trying to rationalize away these accounts-- and trying to tar anyone else who attacks WWASP as part of PURE.
-- first they say the kids are manipulative liars.
-- when there are too many for that to wash any more, they say that they are all "alters" of PURE
-- if that doesn't work, they claim ISAC-- which was created by Straight Inc. survivors themselves-- is part of PURE.
But what they don't do, what they never ever do, is contact the kids and the parents who are making these claims and ask them for themselves. If they did that, they'd no longer have any excuses for not believing them, so they avoid taking that very easy step, despite the many emails and phone numbers posted here and on the Voy forum.
Again, ask yourself why six WWASP facilities were all shut down following abuse and fraud claims.
This has never happened to Phoenix House or Daytop-- the nation's two largest chains of teen drug treatment. They have plenty of disgruntled ex-clients who believe the verbal attacks they used were harmful-- but they don't arouse the ire that WWASP, Straight, etc. do because they don't use physical attacks, they don't use restraint, they have genuine ways for kids to report abuse and they are highly regulated. They also have genuine admission criteria, and won't take just any kid who annoys Mom and Dad.
And they've both been around far longer than WWASP. Never had a facility shut, serve thousands.
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Maybe look at the conference page, someone posted it. What is the point of the attendees? I am still missing it.
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Personally this obsession with Pure is really sick. We all know where it started. No need to name names. Too bad so much wasted energy is on Pure and put on WWASPS.
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Can anyone get the names of the attendies?
Just give me a list of those who attended. What is the problem?
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Forget it anonymous, the PURE supporters who were at the conference don't want their identities known on this forum. Why that is, you'll have to ask their unofficial spokesperson, Karen Z. I have a feeling she might know but most likely, won't say for fear of the consequences for speaking "out of group" :rofl:
One thing for certain, according to Wes Fager's report, Laurie Berg was NOT the only anti-WWASPS crusader in attendance.
:wave:
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Forget it anonymous, the PURE supporters who were at the conference don't want their identities known on this forum. Why that is, you'll have to ask their unofficial spokesperson, Karen Z. I have a feeling she might know but most likely, won't say for fear of the consequences for speaking "out of group"
Karen Z will they let you speak out? Will they allow you to give out their names? I would think if they were standing up for a good cause and had no shame, they would be more than willing to say who they were.
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FYI
If it matters, I attended the conference! I sent my son to a wwasps program about 14 months ago & removed him after two months. Before, I am accused of everything under the sun by a select few; our family chose wwasps from the glossy brochures & literature that was provided to us via teen help. My son, also choose casa through the propaganda furnished to him by teen help. He was NOT hand cuffed, escorted or pulled by the hair to Ensinada, MX.
I didn't like the communication skills associated with the director at casa nor the staff?s. After investigating wwasps & unveiling their so called ?program? & pyramid scheme, among other concerns which have been turned over to the class action law suit attorneys. That?s MY story & I?m sticking to it!!!
I am under the impression that quite a few people on this forum DO NOT personally know what this law suit is about!
It has nothing to do with PURE? To my knowledge & my attorney?s it never has involved PURE? Who on this board brought the accusation up between this class action & PURE?
I did write an article concerning MY experience with wwasps. MY concerns & the article are posted on PURE's website. Does that make ME a PURE support? Tell me... I have since been contacted & spoken with many parents due to my article posted on the web. This same article has been furnished to ISAC?s last month when I became aware of their experience in this so called ?freedom fight?.
I believe that allot of the anon postings are the same 3-4 individuals who can not seem to see the light of this industries dilemma. They miss the point when it comes to tactics, strategic planning & flying under the radar as others have mentioned.
Everyone wants to gripe & complain about, who, what, when, where, ME...ME...ME...ME... It's all about them & not their children!!! Otherwise, everyone could join in an intelligent conversation. I've bashed some people out here as well, but at least, I like, Carey can put a signature to my posts. I WILL give her credit for at least identifying herself, unlike others!!!
Why did SAFE & ISAC have a falling out? Just some questions for the board, I?m sure I?ll get some type of response. Why can?t everyone on this board become goal oriented & team up against the ?abusive programs?? I was at the conference & even then there was separation between ALL parties. I was labeled a ?wwaspie? by the SAFE people. Why, I don?t know, I was there to find out what SAFE was all about? I was there to find out how SAFE was addressing state & federal laws pertaining to these child warehouses & their owners.
As far as the speakers went, everyone who took the stage was a hero in MY mind. I was very impressed with Rick Ross. Talk about knowledge!!! This guy has been there & done it as far as I?m concerned. The next person to stand out was Wes Fager. WOW, what an enthusiastic spokes person with real life experiences pertaining to ?Straights?!!! If you ever have the opportunity to hear Wes speak?RUN down to where ever it is, you will not be disappointed. Just to inform everyone of my exposure to this industry, I was clueless that SO MANY organizations existed!!! Again, ALL of the speakers where great in their own fields & with their personal accounts of incidents.
I hope that answers ALL of ANON?S concerns!!!
Regards,
Lee
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[ This Message was edited by: KarenZ on 2003-10-17 15:38 ]
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Let's cut to the chase here. Were the elusive Sheff & Berryman in attendance? That's obviously what people are wondering. So how 'bout it Lee, did Batman and Robin show up? My guess is they did and not without their entourage of teen-help busters. ZAP! POW! BAM!
:smokin:
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My husband and I would like to thank you. I came across the PURE website around the same time and in the course of the same journey that landed us here on Fornits. We were searching for information, and the fact that you took the time to chronicle your experience with Casa was a real eye-opener to us-- and a big help as we struggled to come to terms with the enormous evil that suddenly confronted us. I still have a problem sometimes getting my mind around the idea that so many people are so fully committed to such evil...
Never have we had any dealings with Sue Sheff, or anyone else associated with PURE. But I would also like to thank them for providing a forum on which you were able to post your story. Information is power. We all have the ability to weigh and evaluate sources of information-- and then make up our own minds as to what is or isn't credible. Anyone who attempts to limit my access to knowledge is in a very, very real sense my enemy.
So, all you anonymii who are so quick to question the honesty, motives and sincerity of everyone who does not share your very narrow views-- how about exchanging the PAPER bag for a plastic one? Ignore that little printed warning about suffocation-- the world will go on nicely without you.
And Lee, your Casa story so closely mirrors our own that it rang like a big brass gong! Thank you for speaking out.
You too, Karen. I hope you realize what a difference you've made.
lynn
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Let's all just agree that you all disagree. No ones view is any more narrow minded than the other. :grin: I like to look at it as opening the possibility that there is another, bigger picture here. After all the high percentage of the graduating families at wwasps are satisfied with their investment...in their child and family of course. Can't say that for the return on state and insurance paid options. You sing your song, I'll just sit and read and laugh at the way this is going, going, gone. My kid was in a wilderness program - and is doing great, but wwasp was close to being his next step. Could still be. Thanks PURE for telling me to look at this website and the other one before making a decision. You were not the ones that helped me find the wilderness program, but you've helped me know that I won't be calling you back.
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Lynn,
Thanks!!! If I can reach one parent, aunt, uncle, grand parent or any other relative to a child who is about to be OR who is already incarcerated by a fraudulent "program", I have accomplished MY goal. I only have experience with ONE of the so called specialty schools.
I don't care if it is via PURE's website, ISAC's website, Carey's website, fornits, etc...I spend my free time informing people via the internet about such programs.
I wish I had an alternate to offer everyone who has walked in our shoes or whoever follows these paths. These schools ALL need to be regulated & or legislation in place to prevent any wrong doings by any of them. It's sad that our society & government feels the need to protect us from everything these days. Yet our children can be treated as less than American citizens in someone else?s care.
Regards,
Lee
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What's sad is people actually putting their faith and trust in people who are supreme manipulators and masters of deception. There are evil-doers in both camps. Beware of wolves in sheeps clothing (or wearing a cape)!!!
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On 2003-08-10 21:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Let's cut to the chase here. Were the elusive Sheff & Berryman in attendance? That's obviously what people are wondering. So how 'bout it Lee, did Batman and Robin show up? My guess is they did and not without their entourage of teen-help busters. ZAP! POW! BAM!
:smokin: "
That's okay, Lee. Your non-answer says it all.
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On 2003-08-10 23:18:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2003-08-10 21:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Let's cut to the chase here. Were the elusive Sheff & Berryman in attendance? That's obviously what people are wondering. So how 'bout it Lee, did Batman and Robin show up? My guess is they did and not without their entourage of teen-help busters. ZAP! POW! BAM!
:smokin: "
That's okay, Lee. Your non-answer says it all."
If you look closely in the pictures from the conference, you can see who attended. :rofl:
I was there, I don't remember seeing anyone wearing a bag over their head... :wave:
Regards,
Lee
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Response to my last post. As usual, I sign my posts, just forgot to put the turbinekat info in, sorry!!! Lee
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Who needs pictures, since no one has confirmed otherwise, it's a safe bet Batman and Robin were there.
:tup:
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I have to ask why is it important on who attended the conferencE? I am still missing the point.
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Sounds to me like the conference was very informative and well-worth the time and expense for all those who were able to attend. As for the group of people who apparently used this conference as a "publicity stunt" to call attention to themselves and their agenda, it's understandable why they would not want their identities revealed on this forum. What interests me is knowing more about the 2 book authors, international journalists and producer who filmed the conference. Can anyone provide more details or is this one of those questions better left unanswered?
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If you are so interested in the conference why don't you ask the conference directors or Wes Fager, didn't he do a report on it? What is the big deal here? Publicity? For what? Someones obsession is really getting the best of this board. :oops:
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On 2003-08-11 12:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"If you are so interested in the conference why don't you ask the conference directors or Wes Fager, didn't he do a report on it? What is the big deal here? Publicity? For what? Someones obsession is really getting the best of this board. :oops: "
Can we say COVER UP here???
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The report states "there was a professional movie maker there who shot footage (a producer from 20/20 bowed out at the last minute having been called to Iraq)."
The statement about the WWASPS parents in attendance appears to have been edited as there is no longer any mention of XXXXXXXX or the impromptu talk this person gave.
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"Betsy"
I can't see much point in devoting a lot of time and effort in trying to really communicate with someone who faces the world with a bag over her/his head. And I've gotta assume that your eyes are closed under there, too, or else you have a real problem in the area of reading comprehension. (Did you "graduate" a WWASPS facility, by any chance?)
According to you, anyone who takes the position that WWASPS should be held accountable for the damage they have wreaked on thousands of families in crisis-- and all in the pursuit of $$-- qualifies as "PURE supporter extraodinare". Not so. Over a thousand FAMILIES, so far, have signed on to the anti-WWASPS class action. Most of them will offer what documentation and assistance they can to those litigating the case--and move on with their lives. The vast majority do not support PURE, or anything else for that matter, because there is simply no educational entity out there worthy of support. (It's a geat yawning chasm--resembling the gap between your ears.)
In surveying the landscape, I personally don't see ANYTHING worthy of my support. Anyone soliciting my advice on what on earth to do to re-direct an at-risk child gets no answers from me. But as a parent of a former Casa by the Sea inmate I can and do tell them what to avoid-- based on the evil perpetrated on my family in the name of "emotional growth" and profit. And I can and do suggest questions to be asked. That's all I have right now-- lots and lots of questions.
So if you truly think that my speaking out about the harm that WWASPS inflicted on my family necessarily means I SUPPORT anyone or anything that opposes that vast moneymaking monolith-- I sincerely hope you state your case from the witness stand. Huron will shred you like cheese.
lynn
[ This Message was edited by: lynn on 2003-08-12 12:20 ]
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To whom it my concern,
Jeff is sincere in his efforts to help the kids and families who have beeen tricked by WWASP.
Tranquility Bay is a very bad place.Do not under estimate that fact.
Our American children need your help.
Jeff 's law suit with wwasp is not relevant to his request.
FYI WWASP is losing ......Will lose.....
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Well, this thread certainly has taken on a life of its own. Too bad there's so much heat and so little light. FYI people, WWASP did not add me to their complaint until some time AFTER they sued Sue Scheff. Previously they claimed that Sue posted under my name, which is laughable considering that I was active in this cause before Sue ever heard of WWASP. I'm fairly certain that I first posted this thread BEFORE I was served process, so I was not doing it to obtain witnesses for my own use. My purpose was to obtain witness to help persuade government officials to do something about WWASP.
I was going to respond to some of the anonymous postings I saw here, and then decided not to dignify them with an answer.
One thing I will say: I do not work for Sue Scheff, or anyone else in this movement. The only compensation I have ever received was a magazine subscription in payment for an article I wrote for a trade publication. Aside from that I have never received one copper penny of payment or compensation from anyone, not in cash, nor in kind, nor in favors returned, nor any good or valuable consideration of any kind, ever. I am prepared to repeat this statement under the penalties of perjury in any court in the land. Certainly, WWASP has yet to prove to the contrary. I don't think they have a case, and I think the Judge is going to agree before much more time passes.
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Hey Jeff,
I've known about you for some time, even communicated with you, but know little about your personal interest in this effort.
I would love to hear what brought you to this and keeps you involved.
If your "bio" or story is posted somewhere, just provide a link, or email me privately.
Thanks,
Deborah
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I beleive there was an inquiry as to who attended the seminar? Let me state that I attended the seminar and was blown away by Rick Ross and Wes Fager. I met Straight survivors and heard their horrendous testimonies and my heart went out to each and every one of them. I commend them for speaking out and trying to shut these places down.
To the anon's who seem to have some personal vendetta against Sue Scheff & Jeff Berryman: Why don't you take all this wasted energy and put it to some good use? ::bangin::
I'm telling you, the ignorance is unbelieveable!
Nancy Colburn
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On 2002-10-31 20:42:00, Jeff_Berryman wrote:
"One of my associates is in contact with government officials who are ready to close down Tranquility Bay. We need to keep them interested and keep the evidence coming. Everyone with first hand knowledge of TB
who is willing to make a sworn statement please E-mail me at Jeff_Berryman@excite.com. I will forward your E-mail to my associate and she will get back to you with the particulars.
When I mount my horse, ALL THE WINDMILLS IN SPAIN TREMBLE! "
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Good one Nancy - Jeff is part of the court documents as a multiple poster bashing WWASPS programs on sites just like this one. Of course you would defend him - he's one of you :rofl:
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Here's an idea. Put the court record online and charge people $25.00 to read it with all monies collected to be donated to next year's conference.
::cheers::
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Is anybody really on the side of the kids? No, this is all about a small group of big-mouthed ego-maniacs.
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Would you anon poster be so considerate as to identify who or what you are referring to when you use
It, they, we, us, anybody, small group, all ya'll...
Most of us don't know who "they,we,us, or them", are half the time.
Naming the person or group you are referring to would make your comments easier to understand.
This is a public forum. Don't expect people to read your mind or search through the archives to figure out who the hell you MIGHT be referring to.
Deborah
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On 2003-08-12 18:35:00, Deborah wrote:
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Hey Jeff,
I've known about you for some time, even communicated with you, but know little about your personal interest in this effort.
I would love to hear what brought you to this and keeps you involved.
If your "bio" or story is posted somewhere, just provide a link, or email me privately.
Thanks,
Deborah"
Deborah -
Obviously you know about Berryman, since he is a member of your private listserve.
:roll:
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Deborah,
You see the previous post...these are the kinds of games people get so tired of. You pretend not to know Jeff, why? Is this why it upset you so bad that I posted your connection?
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You pretend not to know Jeff, why? Is this why it upset you so bad that I posted your connection?
Are you calling me a liar Carey? Upset that you posted "my connection"?
How I know Jeff and how he came to be on my listserve was explained in another thread. I'm not making any apologizes for not knowing everything about Jeff- membership to a listserve does not require that one divulge everything about themselves. My previous post was an honest request, no pretense involved.
In your quest against Pure you've lost all objectivity. Had I known Jeff/Sue, there would be no need for him to "monitor" my list?
I have no affiliation with Pure, directly or via Jeff. I will continue to share information with who I choose to- and it will probably happen that I don't always have a person's complete bio before I do so.
Like I said Carey, you'll just have to sit with your distressed imaginings.
Deborah
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Deborah, I could have sworn you said in a previous post that those who are on your listserv are highly screened. Well, if that statement is true, and Jeff were on your listserv, then why would you not already know alot about Jeff. Why the need for pretending?
If I were calling you a liar, I would say Deborah your a liar. I have not done that, have I?
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Cerey,
Go back and read how Jeff came to be a member.
What I know about Jeff/Sue I have learned here. If he wants to post actions against WWASP to the membership, as he does here, he is still welcomed to do so- which has actually been the extent of his particpation. Nothing more, nothing less. If he runs any other agenda- promoting alternative programs, etc; he'll be unsubscribed.
And no Carey, you don't have the guts to come out and directly accuse me of lying because you're working with your imaginings, which you aren't sure of. You make indirect accusations so you can weasle your ass out of the crack if your wrong, by denying what you absolutely imply.
Deborah
[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2003-09-01 15:33 ]