Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: laurabk on April 30, 2005, 02:55:00 PM
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It's been about 2 years since I got out of that place and I still think about it every damn day. I remember the feelings I would wake up with everyday there... the worst feeling ever. I can't even describe it.. it was the most surreal feeling I've ever experienced. I felt like a caged animal.. constantly nervous and vulnerable. I was a total mess. Scared shitless of being dropped even when I knew I had done nothing "against the rules." It was ridiculous. I would almost have a heart attack waiting for my family rep and couselor to come to Group. This, in my opinion, IS emotional abuse. They knew damn well that I was scared and anxious and they loved it. They wanted me to be in a vulnerable frame of mind so they could twist around my thoughts into how they wanted me to think and act. I was only there for 4 months, thank god, but I went thru the Discovery and Focus seminars and I dont think I have EVER in my life been so scared. Literally shaking, holding back tears.. feeling completely out of control and confused. These people feed on fear and they need to be put in jail.
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Yes, most of the people who work at these places are sick!
The best revenge is to move on, live a healthy life, finish school, and continue spreading info about your experience.
Eventually, you will be more educated and grounded than those who work there, and you will really begin to see the extent of the damage inflicted by these people and their "program". And your word will be more credible than theirs.
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Guess every experience is different. Perception...I never felt that...well that way.
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"Truth will ultimately prevail when there are pains taken to bring it to light" -- George Washington
People everywhere enjoy believing things that they know are not true. It spares them the ordeal of thinking for themselves and taking responsibility for what they know.
BROOKS ATKINSON (1894-1984), Once Around The Sun, 1951.
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On 2005-04-30 14:26:00, bandit1978 wrote:
Eventually, you will be more educated and grounded than those who work there, and you will really begin to see the extent of the damage inflicted by these people and their "program". And your word will be more credible than theirs.
Most of ya'll are already there. Just don't let anybody tell you any different.
Perri, your perception of things really is not all that matters.Everything that people say to you is personal. Whether it is constructive criticism or not will determine whether it cam from and asshole or not.
----Bill Warbis
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Antigen, I never said it was the end all. However it does add to the puzzle.
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Yes, Perri, we all know you "never felt that way".
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What "puzzle"???
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You know insulin is necessary for diabetics, but if you gave a non diabetic the same dose, it could kill them. Should we ban all use of insulin? The program Perri was in was helpful to Perri and obviously to others as well. Why not be thankful that she was helped and look for a way to make the programs work for others as well.
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Why not be thankful that she was helped and look for a way to make the programs work for others as well.
Because they don't. What, you think WWASP has a suggestion box at their office for ex-students or parents? This isn't therapy, it's a business. Business' care about one thing, the bottom line. Parents who think otherwise are deeply mistaken.
Some people believe handling poisonous snakes is helpful to them, perhaps we should start a program where kids handle snakes? What doesn't kill them makes them stronger right? Only a couple will be bitten, so as long as *some* get better, all the better! Using your reasoning, this would be perfectly acceptable.
The ends don't justify the means.
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Insulin is a controlled substance, available only by prescription, and administered only by health care professionals or someone who has been specifically trained to administer it. It is also not the first nor the preferred method of controlling diabetes. And if someone is using insulin, their blood sugar levels need to be monitored several times a day.
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On 2005-05-04 07:34:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Why not be thankful that she was helped and look for a way to make the programs work for others as well.
Because they don't. What, you think WWASP has a suggestion box at their office for ex-students or parents? This isn't therapy, it's a business. Business' care about one thing, the bottom line. Parents who think otherwise are deeply mistaken.
Some people believe handling poisonous snakes is helpful to them, perhaps we should start a program where kids handle snakes? What doesn't kill them makes them stronger right? Only a couple will be bitten, so as long as *some* get better, all the better! Using your reasoning, this would be perfectly acceptable.
The ends don't justify the means. "
:nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
--John Adams
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okay, lets outlaw all use of any meds 'cause they can harm sooooo many people and you know Chemo therapy not administered correctly kills everyone so no matter how many it saves, since it doesn't save and help everyone, let's eliminate that too? Don't you see how silly you are? Instead, let's work towards a system that promotes healing and help for those that need it. Perri was in the right program for her. If the program was wrong for someone else, get that kid somewhere else. Work toward helping make things right. Not eliminating something that is successful for people like Perri.
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On 2005-05-04 07:47:00, Anonymous wrote:
"If the program was wrong for someone else, get that kid somewhere else. Work toward helping make things right."
Unfortunately, if you fail to 'work the program' while you are at the facility you will be punished severely. You will be put in isolation, for months living on starvation rations, in filthy dirty conditions. This is my personal experience at a WWASP facility. You get to leave when you turn 18... lucky if you get a ride to the nearest homeless shelter and a 20 dollars.
Don't you see, we ARE working towards making things right by getting the truth out there about WWASP facilities. I was at one, were you? Who exactly are you and what perspective are you bringing to this argument?
Not eliminating something that is successful for people like Perri.
Ah, the old argument of "I"d be in jail or dead if I wasn't at the program." Just because one did not have a terrible experience does not prove anything. Or do you think it does?
I'm glad 100% of the students that go to these facilities are not physically beaten and tortured, but some are. Just because one ex-student had a 'good' experience, doesn't give bystanders the right to discount the rest of our experiences.
Pharmaceuticals is highly regulated industry, to PREVENT INJURY AND DEATH. This 'teen help' industry is not, the owners purposely set up show where the laws are most liberal when it comes to child abuse.
If a parent feels WWASP is a better place to put your kid than all the other places in the world that are genuinely helpful, they are simply lazy and ignorant. (or like many kids there, their parents just wanted them gone)
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I have never met or spoken to a parent that "wanted" to put their kid there.
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Talk to more parents.
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Perri is an example of the program "working" for her. We program vets like to call that "brainwashed." Who's to say if it'll ever wear off? She's obviously happy accepting her "new reality."
So that makes caging, beating, demeaning, degrading, humiliating, brainwashing-mind control, torturing, hog-tying, sucker-punching, long periods of isolation in one position, starvation, lack of medical attention, total isolation from family and friends, emotional trauma, pepper-spraying 3x or more times a day every day for months on end, and denial of basic hygiene and personal needs such as bathroom privileges or attention to lice/scabies/ringworm/no shoes/open sewage under laundry drying/food poisoning okay?
So, torture and abuse can be therapy as long as some of the kids aren?t tortured and abused? Your comparisons don?t come close to justifying child abuse, neglect, and nothing you say will sell me on those ?Lifespring? based ?Discovery? and ?Focus? seminars. I know what they are, and they?ve been duplicated from the ideas of evil men - businessmen who are taking advantage of the neediness of human nature, and exploiting it for self-serving purposes.
Using and abusing every step of the way, as long as a few get by seemingly unscathed, is worth all of the destruction of countless children?s minds permanently? Do you realize how many times this ?Therapeutic process? has been recycled and failed? WWASPS are just another notch in the belt of destructive, brutal, mean, mind-control programs/cults. They?re not making breakthroughs re-wiring children, they?re making the big bucks off of permanent emotional and physical scars.
Those who ?get it? actually lost it in the process?
Being broken then fixed by quacks and crooks is a crock.
The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor
_________________
EST ("Lifespring") 1983
Salesmanship Club '84-'86
Straight, Inc. '86-'88
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. ~ Edmund Burke
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/So that makes caging, beating, demeaning, degrading, humiliating, brainwashing-mind control, torturing, hog-tying, sucker-punching, long periods of isolation in one position, starvation, lack of medical attention, total isolation from family and friends, emotional trauma, pepper-spraying 3x or more times a day every day for months on end, and denial of basic hygiene and personal needs such as bathroom privileges or attention to lice/scabies/ringworm/no shoes/open sewage under laundry drying/food poisoning okay? /
None of that is okay! Perri said it didn't happen to her. Are you calling her a liar? If it didn't happen and she was helped...that is great!
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On 2005-05-04 07:47:00, Anonymous wrote:
"okay, lets outlaw all use of any meds 'cause they can harm sooooo many people and you know Chemo therapy not administered correctly kills everyone so no matter how many it saves, since it doesn't save and help everyone, let's eliminate that too? Don't you see how silly you are? Instead, let's work towards a system that promotes healing and help for those that need it. Perri was in the right program for her. If the program was wrong for someone else, get that kid somewhere else. Work toward helping make things right. Not eliminating something that is successful for people like Perri."
Yeah, well, the difference is that we have this organization called the FDA that requires what we call "scientific drug trials"--perhaps you've heard of them?--to ensure that the "meds" on the market are safe and effective for the conditions they're approved to treat.
While some of the drugs approved by the FDA have serious risks, the conditions those drugs are approved to treat are so serious, and the drugs so statistically, scientifically proven effective, that the benefits outweigh the risks.
The thing is, all these meds have been scientifically tested up one side and down the other, with the data collected and analyzed and all vetted by the FDA to provide consumers at least some reasonable assurance that it was done properly. Because that's been done, doctors and patients *know the statistically quantified risks and benefits*---rather than just buying into a risk and benefit package blindly where nobody knows *what* the percentage risks are versus the percentage benefits or even if there *are* any benefits compared to alternate treatments or a placebo.
There's a world of difference between a treatment that's been scientifically tested, and the data collected, and been proven safe and effective
Versus
"Treatments" where the providers work like hell to actively avoid anybody actually doing long term studies comparing them to no treatment or placebos. Probably because they have a pretty damned good guess that the results, if known, would be devastating to their business prospects.
NIMH says that the results that *are* available, and apparently enough results are in for them to make a definitive call, indicate that facilities that put mentally ill children alongside juvenile delinquents do the mentally ill children "more harm than good."
You see, that's the difference.
Meds and treatments like chemo therapy are scientifically proven to do patients more good than harm.
NIMH says the scientific results are in and that the Programs do mentally ill children more harm than good.
I guess comparing "More Good Than Harm" to "More Harm Than Good" and seeing a difference between the two is beyond your mental capacity, huh?
Timoclea
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On 2005-05-04 08:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
"/So that makes caging, beating, demeaning, degrading, humiliating, brainwashing-mind control, torturing, hog-tying, sucker-punching, long periods of isolation in one position, starvation, lack of medical attention, total isolation from family and friends, emotional trauma, pepper-spraying 3x or more times a day every day for months on end, and denial of basic hygiene and personal needs such as bathroom privileges or attention to lice/scabies/ringworm/no shoes/open sewage under laundry drying/food poisoning okay? /
None of that is okay! Perri said it didn't happen to her. Are you calling her a liar? If it didn't happen and she was helped...that is great!
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Perri has also said she doesn't consider it child neglect to deprive a child below a certain "level" of *shoes*.
I'm not calling Perri a liar. I'm calling her actively "reality challenged."
Timoclea
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On 2005-05-04 08:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I have never met or spoken to a parent that "wanted" to put their kid there."
Talk to my grandaughter's stepfather, who found the perfect solution to his "problem" that came along with his new mega-bucks wife, while sitting in his recliner surfing the net on his laptop. It worked too. Not only did he get her out of his life for a year, but she is now out of his life (and her mother's) forever, as she doesn't want anything to do with either of them. In what may have been a final explosive phone call about 2 weeks ago, our girl tried to tell her mother just some of the more mild punitive experiences she had at Casa by the Sea. Her mother's response was "...if I had it to do over again, I'd do the same thing, because you'd be deadorinjail without WWASPS". Holy cow! Still a program junkie cultist, which is absolutely amazing, considering the very bad outcome of her family situation.
The other loser in this scenario is her younger sister, who now has contact only by phone calls, and will probably not be with her sister until the younger one is old enough to be out on her own, away from the parents who are using the same negative parenting techniques they learned in Tough Love (minus WWASPS).[ This Message was edited by: spots on 2005-05-04 09:49 ]
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On 2005-05-04 07:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You know insulin is necessary for diabetics, but if you gave a non diabetic the same dose, it could kill them. Should we ban all use of insulin? The program Perri was in was helpful to Perri and obviously to others as well. Why not be thankful that she was helped and look for a way to make the programs work for others as well."
Honestly? Because it seems far more likely that either 1) she had the unbelievable good fortune to have some rebel staff who protected their group from ever experiencing the Program full blast or 2) she didn't get helped w/ her problems so much as she was helped to learn how to suck it up and call it help. Likely a little bit of both.
If you really want to improve the program (and the operators of WWASP have demonstrated again and again that they do not!) the first thing you'd want to do is eliminate the BM elements of it. That would mean What you'd have left would be, in some cases, nothing and, in other cases, a nice little retreat w/ some form of schooling and possibly access to some form of psychotherapy.
But that's just so far removed from the base philosophy of the troubled parent industry.
I cannot see how a man of any large degree of humorous perception can ever be religious -- unless he purposely shut the eyes of his mind and keep them shut by force.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist
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Anon- stop comparing these programs to pharmacuticals.
Anyway, cancer patients make AN INFORMED CHOICE to receive chemotherapy. There is tons of scientific research that goes into chemotherapy research, and scores of doctors and scientists who devote their careers to cancer research. The same cannot be said for the "teen help" industry.
It is a very poor comparison. "Don't you see how silly you sound?" :wstupid:
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no informed choice of treatment if you are a child!
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On 2005-05-04 08:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
"/So that makes caging, beating, demeaning, degrading, humiliating, brainwashing-mind control, torturing, hog-tying, sucker-punching, long periods of isolation in one position, starvation, lack of medical attention, total isolation from family and friends, emotional trauma, pepper-spraying 3x or more times a day every day for months on end, and denial of basic hygiene and personal needs such as bathroom privileges or attention to lice/scabies/ringworm/no shoes/open sewage under laundry drying/food poisoning okay? /
None of that is okay! Perri said it didn't happen to her. Are you calling her a liar? If it didn't happen and she was helped...that is great!
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No, Perri says that much of that didn't happen within her sight at CCM. Total isolation from family and friends? That's part of the program. It's right in the contract. Ask any parent who's insisted on talking on the phone w/ their kid on a day when the staff forbid it. Her own parents had to view her through one way glass when they insisted on "seeing" her. Or was that Amanda? Sorry, I can't recall offhand. Perri also acknowledges wittnessing violent take downs, but thinks they were allways justified. They're not. We know this. In this country you have to be convicted of some sort of crime before anyone is allowed to physically lock you down, including parents.
And we all know what happens to most kids who get "expelled" from CCM. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.
O'Brien, the apparatchik
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On 2005-05-04 10:19:00, Anonymous wrote:
"no informed choice of treatment if you are a child!"
Legally, even children are entitled to withhold consent. Ethically, obviously children are entitled to withhold consent.
But again, we're not talking about objective, science and fact based diagnosis and proven safe and effective treatment. We're talking about anyone gullible enough to fall for the "Signs of _____" check list.
I often enourage people to call those hotlines or fill out those forms and describe a kid who they know and who obviously doesn't need or deserve lock down BM. So far, I haven't heard back from a single one who says the kid in question got a clean bill of health. In their warped world view, every kid needs a little BM. And it isn't just the money, either. They truely and honestly believe it. But then, they belive in magical underwear, too. :roll: Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
--Albert Einstein
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I think it would be prudent to ask Perri exactly how she felt.
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On 2005-05-04 12:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I think it would be prudent to ask Perri exactly how she felt."
I have no personal effect on anything that happens to Perri, so while I wish her well, as I wish anyone well who is basically a stranger and almost everyone who is not.
Because I have no effect on her, I don't really care how she felt. I wish her well, but how she felt is irrelevant to me, and irrelevant to the feelings of others.
She considers it not child neglect to deprive a kid of *shoes*. Her justification was, "It's not like we didn't have anything on our feet" and I think she said they didn't get outside much.
Well, not getting outside much is *also* child neglect. Kids need fresh air and sunshine and room to run and play, and lots of it. It's not a privilege, it's something they need to grow up healthy.
And another adult who was in Cross Creek as a kid has said that what they had on their feet instead of shoes was socks or thin slippers.
But Perri doesn't consider depriving a kid of shoes to be child neglect.
Anybody who is playing with a full deck, as a citizen of the US of A, considers purposely depriving a kid of having shoes on the grounds that shoes are a privilege to be earned to be absofuckinglutely outrageous child neglect worthy of removing the child. And most people playing with a full deck would advocate not only child removal, but criminal prosecution, if someone had the resources to get a kid shoes or had someone else buy the kid shoes and wilfully deprived the kid of shoes for weeks or months at a time saying the kid had not "earned" them.
My conclusion is and has to be that Perri and the others like her who think this is okay are not, as of right now, playing with a full deck.
She was forcibly indoctrinated into a cult that demands its members, many involuntary, not play with a full deck in exactly that fashion.
So I remind myself frequently not to blame her for not having a full deck to play with.
But the fact remains that Perri demonstrably wouldn't know child neglect if it bit her on the ass, and so her vehement assurances that she neither was abused or neglected nor witnessed abuse or neglect are entirely worthless.
*Perri* herself is not worthless.
But her assurances about the absence of child abuse or neglect *are* worthless.
Because she demonstrably doesn't know it when she sees it.
And if you think it's okay and not child neglect to wilfully deprive a kid of shoes and define shoes as a privilege, then you're not playing with a full deck, either.
Timoclea
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I'd like to challenge all WWASPS cheerleaders to go to a party with *no* program people present at all.
Pick a room with as many people in it as can all hear you and answer the question without being too disturbed by your asking them a question.
Ask the following question and ask for a show of hands for people who think, "Yes."
"If you, yourself, were to take away your child's shoes for weeks or months at a time as a punishment, and not let the child have shoes until, after weeks or months of good behavior, you felt the child had earned them, and the Child Welfare authorities found out about it, do you believe the Child Welfare authorities would consider that abusive or neglectful, either one, behavior on your part?"
Go to any Unitarian Church on a Sunday---I picked them because they have a "Joys and Concerns" time when anyone can stand up and say anything. Ask the question and ask for a show of hands. I'll bet all of the adults will raise their hands.
Pick any other large gathering of all non-Program adults except for you. Practically every hand is going to go up.
Do it. Go find non-Program adults and ask the question.
Consider it your "community standards" reality check.
I'll tell you right now your reality check is going to bounce.
Timoclea
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You people just don't get it. I CHOSE to go to CCM with my behavior. If I wasn't such a bad teen, and hadn't put my parents through hell I wouldnt of had to go. I CHOSE to go with my own actions. Kids all around the world are starving to death at this very moment. IN North Korea, parents are letting their kids starve all around them. We have it much better in America, and I am glad to support such a great program as WWASP. I hope everyone sends their child there. Go search "Teen Help" and take the quiz on behalf of your teen. You will see, they need to go!
I'm telling you first hand. I was a teenager not too long ago. I was such a bad girl, I'm surprised I made it alive to CCM. Thank GOD they took me in and saved me. If it wasn't for them I don't know where I'd be right now. I for SURE would have been dead or in jail. I was a horrible teen, of course I would have been dead or in jail!
Stop calling me brainwashed. I've seen the movie manchurian candidate, I know what brainwashing is. Nobody tied me up and used a computer to brainwash me, you guys are all crazy. It is YOU who are brainwashed. You are all brainwahsed by other programs... who are jelous of WWASP's success! I can't believe you all can be so naive. If WWASP was so bad, why would they be allowed to operate still? We live in a country of laws. You are all so stupid.
Don't you get it it yet? I was AT Cross Creek. I was THERE! I NEVER saw any abuse, and was never abused. Therefore, we can reasonably deduct that no abuse occurs. I turned out so good. I am HAPPY! I have lots of money. I have peace of mind. Do you? I doubt it, filling these forums with hate for the program. It doesn't make any sense. You should go to a Discovery seminar or something and figure your shit out!
I'm tired of arguing with you people. I just hope you know you all are wrong, and I am right. I will defend WWASP until I die, and nothing will change that. I love WWASP. I am a Loving, passionate, caring young woman.
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On 2005-05-04 08:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I have never met or spoken to a parent that "wanted" to put their kid there."
Yeah, you ought to meet my mother. Kept going to open meetings and any other event she was allowed for years after I left the program. The law in its majestic equality, forbids all men to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread - the rich as well as the poor
--Anatole France
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On 2005-05-04 16:15:00, Perriga?d wrote:
"You people just don't get it. I CHOSE to go to CCM with my behavior. If I wasn't such a bad teen, and hadn't put my parents through hell I wouldnt of had to go. I CHOSE to go with my own actions. Kids all around the world are starving to death at this very moment. IN North Korea, parents are letting their kids starve all around them. We have it much better in America, and I am glad to support such a great program as WWASP. I hope everyone sends their child there. Go search "Teen Help" and take the quiz on behalf of your teen. You will see, they need to go!
I'm telling you first hand. I was a teenager not too long ago. I was such a bad girl, I'm surprised I made it alive to CCM. Thank GOD they took me in and saved me. If it wasn't for them I don't know where I'd be right now. I for SURE would have been dead or in jail. I was a horrible teen, of course I would have been dead or in jail!
Stop calling me brainwashed. I've seen the movie manchurian candidate, I know what brainwashing is. Nobody tied me up and used a computer to brainwash me, you guys are all crazy. It is YOU who are brainwashed. You are all brainwahsed by other programs... who are jelous of WWASP's success! I can't believe you all can be so naive. If WWASP was so bad, why would they be allowed to operate still? We live in a country of laws. You are all so stupid.
Don't you get it it yet? I was AT Cross Creek. I was THERE! I NEVER saw any abuse, and was never abused. Therefore, we can reasonably deduct that no abuse occurs. I turned out so good. I am HAPPY! I have lots of money. I have peace of mind. Do you? I doubt it, filling these forums with hate for the program. It doesn't make any sense. You should go to a Discovery seminar or something and figure your shit out!
I'm tired of arguing with you people. I just hope you know you all are wrong, and I am right. I will defend WWASP until I die, and nothing will change that. I love WWASP. I am a Loving, passionate, caring young woman.
"
Thanks, I needed the laugh.
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And if you think it's okay and not child neglect to wilfully deprive a kid of shoes and define shoes as a privilege, then you're not playing with a full deck, either.
Timoclea
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I'm not sure if I'd call flip-flops in and of themselves 'abusive". A whole lot of the world calls them their only footwear. What I WOULD call abusive is the fact that the kids are told over and over that they wear flimsy sandals for the specific, sole, and punitive reason that such footwear is issued just so escape becomes very difficult or nearly impossible. Sort of like wearing shackles or hobbles...is that abusive for a prisoner going to court? No. Is that abusive for teenagers going about their twisted life in the gulag? Yes.
BTW, it was not their ONLY shoes. Even in Casa, they had their tennis shoes which were passed out for the half-hour forced marches called PE, and then recollected. Our kid's problem was that when she was sent off, her shoes were already tight. During her year there, she grew enough (duh!) to need a larger size, which never happened. She limped along for a while, then learned to jog around the courtyard in flip-flops. Was this abusive? Maybe, but definitely sadistic and neglectful.
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*** I CHOSE to go to CCM with my behavior.
I respectfully disagree Perri. Your ?behavior? was a signal for some needed attention and action, but it was your parents who ?chose? to place you in a bm warehouse. They had other options. Behaviors, actions, ?choose? nothing. It?s unfortunate that so many parents these days haven?t a clue how to interpret those signs, nor have a clue what to do. Leaves them feeling pretty desperate and vulnerable.
I don?t doubt that you are a loving, passionate, caring young woman. I do doubt that any program had anything to do with that. Give yourself some credit for being inherently loving, passionate and caring. Others don?t deserve the credit for that- only serves to further inflate their egos, and ?mis?program you.
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On 2005-05-04 18:03:00, spots wrote:
"I'm not sure if I'd call flip-flops in and of themselves 'abusive". A whole lot of the world calls them their only footwear. What I WOULD call abusive is the fact that the kids are told over and over that they wear flimsy sandals for the specific, sole, and punitive reason that such footwear is issued just so escape becomes very difficult or nearly impossible. Sort of like wearing shackles or hobbles...is that abusive for a prisoner going to court? No. Is that abusive for teenagers going about their twisted life in the gulag? Yes."
If they got flip-flops they were lucky we had to wear soft-soled slippers, no exceptions. In the rain and the snow. The first seminar I went through I remember having to walk outside back and forth from the dorm to the training room while it was snowing and the ground was covered in slush and sitting all day with soaking wet slippers that didn't dry overnight. I already had feet problems before and was suppose to be wearing corrective orthotics in my shoes but I went without shoes for 7 months, which I do think is a factor in why my feet are worse today then years ago.
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On 2005-05-04 16:15:00, Perriga?d wrote:
"You people just don't get it. I CHOSE to go to CCM with my behavior. If I wasn't such a bad teen, and hadn't put my parents through hell I wouldnt of had to go. I CHOSE to go with my own actions. Kids all around the world are starving to death at this very moment. IN North Korea, parents are letting their kids starve all around them. We have it much better in America, and I am glad to support such a great program as WWASP. I hope everyone sends their child there. Go search "Teen Help" and take the quiz on behalf of your teen. You will see, they need to go!
I'm telling you first hand. I was a teenager not too long ago. I was such a bad girl, I'm surprised I made it alive to CCM. Thank GOD they took me in and saved me. If it wasn't for them I don't know where I'd be right now. I for SURE would have been dead or in jail. I was a horrible teen, of course I would have been dead or in jail!
Stop calling me brainwashed. I've seen the movie manchurian candidate, I know what brainwashing is. Nobody tied me up and used a computer to brainwash me, you guys are all crazy. It is YOU who are brainwashed. You are all brainwahsed by other programs... who are jelous of WWASP's success! I can't believe you all can be so naive. If WWASP was so bad, why would they be allowed to operate still? We live in a country of laws. You are all so stupid.
Don't you get it it yet? I was AT Cross Creek. I was THERE! I NEVER saw any abuse, and was never abused. Therefore, we can reasonably deduct that no abuse occurs. I turned out so good. I am HAPPY! I have lots of money. I have peace of mind. Do you? I doubt it, filling these forums with hate for the program. It doesn't make any sense. You should go to a Discovery seminar or something and figure your shit out!
I'm tired of arguing with you people. I just hope you know you all are wrong, and I am right. I will defend WWASP until I die, and nothing will change that. I love WWASP. I am a Loving, passionate, caring young woman.
"
Wow, ya got me.
Until I saw the umlaut over the "u" I thought Perri had really lost it.
Good parody, but not very nice.
Timoclea
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Just reading the last posts and thought Id weigh in.
Now, in all eccense, saying that you dont care how she felt and you feel her feelings are irrelevent to you and others is basically saying that your feelings are irrelevent and should not be taken into consideration either.
We did go outside and wore our shoes outside for gym and all that. And its irrelevent because now they can wear shoes form day one.
Amanda
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Who's the asshole who's pretending to be me? I don't have an umulate "u". Anyone who brought that shit is just plain stupid. [ This Message was edited by: Perrigaud on 2005-05-05 00:04 ]
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Timoclea: I wouldn't know child abuse if it bit me in the ass? Ok. Sure. And you wouldn't be able to tell the truth between a genuine teen that has been truly abused and another who is just yanking your chain because they know how to reach your soft spot. Shoes? They weren't thing slippers that might as well have been socks. They were actually soccer sandals (mine were at least). We went out but not to the point where sandals are completely unacceptable.
Antigen: Did I suck up what was happening to me and accepted it as help or was I brainwashed? I was neither. I did a lot of things that didn't help my situation as a teen. The way I viewed life and people were so wrong. I was given a chance to work through the emotional wounds I had. I was helped with the way I looked at my life. It was help. Take a person who was in love with someone. Maybe that person cheated on them or just didn't love them back. This can cause a lot of hurt. Over time that person will be more and more reluctant to let another in. If they haven't dealt with their past the harder it is for them to let love be. Same thing with other emotional events. In the program my therapist and the girls around me gave me insight and the support I needed to work what I needed out. That to me is help. I'm sure others would call it brainwash. Um sure. Or you could call it another point of view.
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On 2005-05-04 21:57:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Just reading the last posts and thought Id weigh in.
Now, in all eccense, saying that you dont care how she felt and you feel her feelings are irrelevent to you and others is basically saying that your feelings are irrelevent and should not be taken into consideration either.
We did go outside and wore our shoes outside for gym and all that. And its irrelevent because now they can wear shoes form day one.
Amanda"
Amanda, my feelings about whatever I experienced as a teen *are* irrelevant to you. You don't have to live in my head, my feelings don't affect you.
I would hope, that my being essentially a stranger, that you would wish me well (like I wish you and Perri well) in the same distant way I wish just about everybody well.
But my feelings have no tangible impact on your day to day life because you don't live in my head.
And one troubled teen's feelings don't make a difference to what we do about *other* teens because they don't live in each others' heads either.
That's what I meant. I wish Perri well, but her feelings about what happened to her are *irrelevant to the issue*---as are my feelings about my own adolescence.
That's the sense in which her feelings are irrelevant--and you are correct, so are mine.
One of my ethical principles is that while I will make my own personal life decisions based on my feelings, and make decisions about interacting with friends and family based on my feelings and how I perceive their feelings, we live in a democracy/republic where policy choices we make affect other people. One of my principles is that I do not use my feelings or any other single person's feelings for making policy choices that involve the lives of other people. I think it's wrong to do that. The only place feelings come into my policy choices that affect others is that I try for the broadest scope for individual choice possible in the rules---so that if the other people directly, individually affected by those rules want to choose something for themselves based on their heart rather than their head, they have leeway to do so.
But just on principle I abhor rules that keep someone else I don't know who doesn't know me from doing something *they* like just because *I* think it's "icky".
When I say Perri's (or some other person's) feelings are irrelevant to the issue, where "the issue" is what rules *other people* should have to follow, that's what I mean---and in the context I was talking about, no, *my* feelings aren't relevant, either.
Timoclea
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Perri, what type of therapy are you talking about? I have a hard time imagining how a real therapist would work within the WWASP program. Based on what the former therapists from CEDU have said, they basically don't have any clout or any ability to protect the kids from the more harmful elements of the toughlove stuff. Are you talking about licensed therapists? Or WWASP trained counselors and peer counceling?
Where powers are assumed which have not been delegated, a nullification of the act is the rightful remedy.
Thomas Jefferson: Kentucky Resolutions, 1798
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Decca Atkinhead's article explained the role of the "therapist" in TB. His role was to pressure the kid even more, so that it'll be easier to break him/her down. That "therapist" stated his undying love to the program in that article, and said that kids who complain are "manipulators". Typical WWASPie trash.
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I was at Spring Creek Lodge in Montana. They actually had 'real' therapists, not psychologists or psychiatrists... just a therapist.. not sure about licensing, they seemed more like counselors than anything. Of course they weren't anti program, and they were extremely manipulative. I told my therapist things in confidence and she told the family mother. Things she knew I didn't want the facility to know (that I planned on leaving at 18, etc..) I don't consider them real therapists, even if they do have a license. THey are program hacks, just like the rest of them. There are no independent voices or advocates in the program. Only a limited amount of kids got to go see one. Out of about 300 kids there when I was there, maybe a dozen got to see the therapist for 30 mins a week. There were about 3 different therapists that would come in. They all were contracted out from the local town of Missoula Montana. They would come in about once a week and see the handful of kids they were assigned. They'd bill your parents extra in addition to program costs. THey also had 'adoption group' and some other group that met once a week. Kids who were adopted would go. There's no therapy at these places, because you can't be honest with your therapist. THey aren't too bright either, they are just locals from 'small town america'.
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HAHAHA. I really thought that was her for a minute.
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Therapists at CCM were licensed and there every day. Our group wasn't mediated by a family rep. My therapist was very honest with me. He told me that I needed to be ready to come home. That the program wasn't going to be around once I was out. I told him about how I saw how girls got so caught up in the program that it was no wonder they'd fall flat on their faces when they would get home. He and I talked about how not everything in the program is positive. I would tell him my gripes on the program. He was always honest and kept my confidential discussions confidential unless I said otherwise. He was a former addict. Because of this it was easier to listen to him. He was the one that taught me a lot. Basically the biggest lesson was that I could sit on my ass and feel sorry for myself for all that has happened to me or I could buck up, face it, and move on. That my past was rough but life's too short to live in the shadows. He worked with me to integrate myself back into society. He and I worked through all of my adoption issues. He helped me to stop looking at myself as a failure and horrible person. Think what you want about CCM. What I know is that my therapist helped me stand on my own and leave as my own person rather than a programmed graduate bound for failure for being so dependant on the program.
That's a big problem with the program. When the kids get out they get lost because they got too attatched to the program. They go from having all the structure to not having any. Not only that but the so called "home contracts" I think are not helpful. While in the program the girls make them impossibly hard. When they get home, find they can't follow them they get lost. They think it's hopeless. Some girls have even wanted to return to the program.
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That all sounds very cult-ish to me, Perri.
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Yes fie on him for teaching me to think for myself. Can't believe he actually had the audacity to help me with my issues. Unbelievable. What horrible man would want to help people with their issues? Who? Well one that is part of a cult. He was just interested in making me really weak and more dependant ob the progra. How to you do that? Tell the girls to realize that everyone has a sob story and that it's not healthy to stay mad at ones self.
Really! I could have said that he took us out to ice cream and movies and that would have some sort of cult flare to it. You all would come up with something outlandish like, "See you were abused because he fed you ice cream in order to gain your trust. If he has your trust he can break you down easily. You're funny! :grin:
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I don't think the Anon was talking about your therapist, who from what you say seems to have been competent. The confidentiality is the big thing.
I think he/she was talking about what you observed in the other girls.
Timoclea
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If It was really talking about the girls and how dependant they get on the program then yeah it is pretty messed up. The program doesn't do a good enough job integrating the girls back into society. I was lucky enough to have a therapist that worked hard with me on this subject. I knew I didn't want to be so dependant that I couldn't function without the BBS forum or the program. Having 300+ girls around at any given time can be really comfortable. Having a therapist and girls around you telling you you're ok and you'll make it can be addicting. Plus the worse thing that can really happen if you mess up is you go to worksheets (at CCM). Easy. Easy to get used to having people around you all the time. Easy to know that committing suicide is possible but really hard to do (at CCM). It becomes an emotional crutch if people aren't careful. The way to succeed is to keep with the things that bring you to reality and positivity. For example, nowadays instead of holding things in until they explode I talk things out. No use in fighting all the time. I make mistakes of course. The differance nowadays is that I don't really care what other think of me. I don't freak out and think I'm horrible because I made a mistake. Screw that. I am able to work through my bad days. The girls tend to get too into the whole having people around to lift them up. Dependancy is not a good thing. I will make it clear that the girls are told at one point to learn independance from the program.
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Perri, sorry if I missed any posts you may have made (explaining this), but could you please tell me:
*How old are you and when were you in the program?
*Were you sent there by your parents? Voluntary or not?
*How long were you there?
*What do you think would have happened to you if you had not gone to the program?
*What exactly were you doing that got you sent there?
By the way, I was also adopted (as an infant). While at PCS, my therapist always tried to turn this into a big issue, and, for me, at the time, it was not an issue at all.
Teenagers have enough issues to deal with, and it was difficult enough (for me) to have to deal with the 2 parents who raised me. The very last thing on my mind was to think about any additional parents.
What are your thoughts on that?
Thanks.
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Perri ?
I want to approach you a little differently than everyone else has. First of all, I want to say I understand your gratitude. I don?t share it and I do think it has a lot to do with conditioning, but I do believe it is genuine. I have no interest in taking that away from you. I?m glad you are happy.
I don?t know what CCM was like. I was in Tranquility Bay and Casa by the Sea for roughly two years. I can promise you that all the worst things you have heard about the facility in Jamaica are true. Do not doubt this. The fact that countless congruent and unrelated allegations have been made should be enough evidence for you to believe in their validity. Do not make the mistake of assuming that your experience at CCM is universal for WWASP. (Remember, results do not lie. The fact that several of these places have been closed down, the owners charged, and lawsuits filed should say enough. Obviously, something is not working. If the United States Congress, the Attorney General, foreign governments, and the FBI have taken steps towards fighting WWASP, something is definitely wrong.)
That being said, I was never restrained or physically abused, other than malnourishment neglect. I attribute this to blind luck and a little wit and the fact that I entered the program at sixteen. Generally, the older kids didn?t get restrained at TB. This had to do with maturity. (A thirteen-year-old kid isn?t going to be able to handle the structure.)
I can?t pretend that no one was or is being harmed if I wasn?t. Children are being systematically harmed. While I was there, I saw the program accept mentally retarded and ill children without any concern as to whether or not they had the capability to care for them. I watched a brilliant staff in Jamaica try to use a heavy and brutal hand to cure a student?s Tourettes Syndrome. During my stay, at least three students required surgery to repair severely damaged limbs. None of them were injured during an incident in which they were out of control. They were restrained for breaking minor rules. I saw restraints used to elicit information, one time to find out who stole a pen. I saw staff take part in restraint parties to pass the time. Recently, it has come to light that a staff member ? a Mr. Grant ? was raping and molesting boys in his care. The girl that killed herself in Jamaica did so while attending class on THE ROOF of a two-story building and was being observed by no more than three, young, uneducated and poorly trained locals. None of this should have happened. But it did and it is still happening. Just because you and I escaped intact doesn?t mean we should condone any of this.
I also want you to take a critical look at your definition of brainwashing. Think about it. What is the purpose of brainwashing? Is it about religion? Is it about strengthening a cult? No. It?s about control. The concepts taught in the seminars are derived from a non-religious cult. This cult ? Lifespring ? as I understand it, used basically the same seminars we attended to convince people to pledge allegiance to their organization, eventually extorting massive sums of money from them. (Keep in mind that the techniques used are Maoist in nature.) David Gilcrease was a member of Lifespring. The cult eventually face legal action and was shut down.
Now the purpose of the brainwashing/cult presence in WWASP is to persuade customers to pledge blind allegiance. The people that run WWASP know that there are countless families in America that are in crisis and in desperate need of help. They know they will do anything and pay anything for help. They also know that people in this position can be easily manipulated and coerced into believing anything, given the right conditions. They know they are easy to control and very susceptible to brainwashing. WWASP has found a market for selling the illusion of happy families and they are doing it in the most cost effective manner ? brainwashing. It is commonly known that the effects of brainwashing last only three to six months after separation from the group. Isn?t it odd that that?s exactly how long our warranty lasts upon release? WWASP is nothing more than a money making monster, exploiting people in crisis for profit while showing no concern for welfare of the children they are doing this do.
Please don?t be so selfish as consider only your well being. Far more of us are harmed than helped.
By the way? please read the overview of a brainwashing system that I will post following this. It will surprise you.
Ryan Pink
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The tactics used to create undue psychological and social influence, often by means involving anxiety and stress, fall into seven main categories.
TACTIC 1
Increase suggestibility and "soften up" the individual through specific hypnotic or other suggestibility-increasing techniques such as:Extended audio, visual, verbal, or tactile fixation drills, Excessive exact repetition of routine activities, Sleep restriction and/or Nutritional restriction.
TACTIC 2
Establish control over the person's social environment, time and sources of social support by a system of often-excessive rewards and punishments. Social isolation is promoted. Contact with family and friends is abridged, as is contact with persons who do not share group-approved attitudes. Economic and other dependence on the group is fostered.
TACTIC 3
Prohibit disconfirming information and non supporting opinions in group communication. Rules exist about permissible topics to discuss with outsiders. Communication is highly controlled. An "in-group" language is usually constructed.
TACTIC 4
Make the person re-evaluate the most central aspects of his or her experience of self and prior conduct in negative ways. Efforts are designed to destabilize and undermine the subject's basic consciousness, reality awareness, world view, emotional control and defense mechanisms. The subject is guided to reinterpret his or her life's history and adopt a new version of causality.
TACTIC 5
Create a sense of powerlessness by subjecting the person to intense and frequent actions and situations which undermine the person's confidence in himself and his judgment.
TACTIC 6
Create strong aversive emotional arousals in the subject by use of nonphysical punishments such as intense humiliation, loss of privilege, social isolation, social status changes, intense guilt, anxiety, manipulation and other techniques.
TACTIC 7
Intimidate the person with the force of group-sanctioned secular psychological threats. For example, it may be suggested or implied that failure to adopt the approved attitude, belief or consequent behavior will lead to severe punishment or dire consequences such as physical or mental illness, the reappearance of a prior physical illness, drug dependence, economic collapse, social failure, divorce, disintegration, failure to find a mate, etc.
These tactics of psychological force are applied to such a severe degree that the individual's capacity to make informed or free choices becomes inhibited. The victims become unable to make the normal, wise or balanced decisions which they most likely or normally would have made, had they not been unknowingly manipulated by these coordinated technical processes. The cumulative effect of these processes can be an even more effective form of undue influence than pain, torture, drugs or the use of physical force and physical and legal threats.
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I'd like to encourage Ryan to get a name here. Your journalistic accounts of Tranquility Bay were astounding. Keep up the good work....
But this is far from demonstrating that the authorities must interpose to suppress these vices by commercial prohibitions, nor is it by any means evident that such intervention on the part of the government is really capable of suppressing them or that, even if this end could be attained, it might not therewith open up a Pandora's box of other dangers, no less mischievous than alcoholism and morphinism.
Ludwig Von Mises
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Ryan,
I never claimed that no one was getting harmed in the program. I am aware it happened. I was at CBS for 9 months and aggree that that was one of the worst experiences that I have been through. My parents switched me to CCM.
I don't doubt for one minute TB was bad. I heard horror stories of that place. Glad I wasn't sent there.
Amanda and I both realize abuse happens. We are against that. In fact I aggree that the seminars need to either be changed or taken away. I aggree and applaud the shut down of CBS. It was about compliancy of the rules. Yes we needed to learn to follow rules but they were rediculous. Rules about asking to spit, look outside of the line, look outside. I personally got nothing done there due to the fact that I was too focused on not receiving demerits and there was no real focus on my emotional problems.
I also aggree that the staff members need to go to special training of some sort. That way they could avoid losing their cool and harming a child.
I know that just because it didn't happen to me doesn't mean it didn't happen to others. In my facility I never witnessed it. Selfish? I'll take that into consideration.
So everyone knows that I'm greatful that it helped me. Old news. Now I will focus on what is going on that is harmful.
You're right. I am done preaching that it helped me. Everyone knows that. I am also here to focus on the negative. Mainly seminars, needing to not accept those who need a different kind of help , integrating those who are already in the program into society, eliminating the dependancy on the program, training the staff.
Reformation is in need.
Facts:
Age of entering program: 16
Current Age: 22
Sent: By parents
Length: 22 months
What Would've Happened Had I Not Gone: Don't know. Maybe I would've gotten worse maybe I would've straightened out. I don't know so I'm not going to pretend to know.
What Got Me There: Physically abusing peers at school, physically abusing family members, kicked out of 2 schools, running away, depressed.
Adoption: Adoption can be difficult to deal with. Some deal with it just fine. Other's don't. It's a proven fact that a high percentage of inmates are adopted. Anyhow, my brother was adopted as well. He has never had too big of a problem with it. I did. I felt empty. I think that this is a hard topic.
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The one thing that got my attention about your post, Perrigaud, is this:
"I personally got nothing done there due to the fact that I was too focused on not receiving demerits and there was no real focus on my emotional problems."
Thats part of what I mean about taking the behavior mod bullshit out of a 'program' and making it into a 'retreat' with therapy and actual education, instead of an austere behavior modification(brainwashing) facility with clumbsy therapy and self-teaching out of a damn book!
Being broken down, destroyed on the inside, or forced to follow 'structure' is... oing doing those three things. Its not going to help with therapy at all.
Distance from family can help some kids, yeah, but the other bullshit I'd have a hard time believing helped anyone except a rather twisted, submissive child. My view is that if there is no evidence for it, then forget about it. An agnostic is somebody who doesn't believe in something until there is evidence for it, so I'm agnostic.
--Carl Sagan, American astronomer and author
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Perri, I also read the anon's comments about cultishness the way Timo did. And, together w/ what Amanda said about the difference between the college program and the regular treatment, I'm even more convinced that you dodged a bullet, and not a little due to your own poise and fortitude.
But you do understand that CBS is as much a part of WWASP as CCM, right? I mean, you didn't really go from one program to another so much as one facility to another within the same program. At CCM, there were the strict and somewhat arbitrary (but not really) rules and constant needling of various kinds. But I'm sure the fact that CBS was a possability never went too far from the fore.
Forgive me for going :roll: (no, really, it's a bad habit that I'm trying to break) when I read about reforming WWASP programs. I'm thoroughly convinced that they can't be reformed because, like a stone cold junkie, they simply don't want to be reformed.
You're right. The dependency issue is basic. But that is the essense of the Program. Take away the dependency, the rediculous rules and other damaging aspects of it and what you have left (in some cases, not many like yours) might be a wonderful program, but not profitable. I'm w/ Chris on that one. A retreat w/ maybe a therapeutic element (depending on how one defines therapy) and an educational componant. But certainly not total isolation from everything and everyone you ever knew.
Allow the President to invade a neighboring nation whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such purpose, and you allow him to make war at pleasure. Study to see if you can fix any limit to his power in this respect, after having given him so much as you propose. If today he should choose to say he thinks it necessary to invade Canada to prevent the British from invading us, how could you stop him? You may say to him,--"I see no probability of the British invading us"; but he will say to you, "Be silent: I see it, if you don't."
--Abraham Lincoln
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Ryan, welcome! The intellectual quality of this forum has risen by your participation. Glad to have you hanging around in my rough little barroom. Hope you hang around. :nworthy:
Timo, please check your PMs.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark. The real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.
--Plato
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Yes Ginger. I know that CBS and CCM are under the same WWASP organization. However they are run differently. I would know that better than most who have been to only one.
Little to my poise and fortitude? Ok. Sure. Even if I hadn't gone to the college program I would've done well. But sure, I dodged a bullet.
Personally the isolation felt good for me. I wanted to run away from them anyway. Amanda will agree with me as far as I didn't want to be around my family and even so-called friends then. Now I do. But I needed to figure things out.
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So why enter a war-zone just to get away and "figure things out"? Do you think you would have been more healthy and a more positive experience to go to a regular boarding school instead? Or maybe on an extended yoga retreat?
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He is exagerating, because he wants to get back at the program for his being there 2 years.
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On 2005-05-10 04:54:00, Perrigaud wrote:
Yes Ginger. I know that CBS and CCM are under the same WWASP organization. However they are run differently. I would know that better than most who have been to only one.
Yes, but it's not really different people operating from different beliefs and values. It's a very small group of the same people playing good cop/bad cop.I hold it to be the inalienable right of anybody to go to hell in his own way.
--Robert Frost, American poet
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If this Ryan bone head is refering to the Mr.Grant that drives the kids to the school from the airport and is behind the wheel the whole time while his wife Mrs.Grant sits next to him?, then that just proves he is full of it.
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Who are you to be calling anyone a bone head?
You can wish all you want - but it won't make it so.
This is one very intelligent and articulate young man, and you look like a major moron calling him a bone head.
Scares you to have one of your much touted Program grads maintain their individuality doesn't it? Especially when they are as bright and out spoken as this one.
Better fill your xanax bottle if your going to be reading his well expressed points of view.
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I call him full of shit because if he is refering to the mr.grant i talked about, then he is a bonehead and you too buzzhead
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Ryan, dont listen to the anon, it probably is Mr Grant or a wwaspie, Ive heard stories about him, from girls too. The guys name comes up way to often
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Boarding school? Shit I would've been happy to run away from that as well. I actually thought I was going to a boarding school. But when I realized I wasn't I was a lil upset.
Yoga retreat? Yeah that might have helped. I didn't want to be anywhere near anyone. Just wanted to be alone. That was half the reason I kept running away.
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I can agree with Ginger and everyone and I can agree wiht Perri. The program is fishy. There is corruption and greed running the program operators and that will never lead to a good program. Until someone opens up a program or a therapy center that is run by people whos heart and credentials are good and in the right place and who actually (supprise supprise) want to help the kids who go there, then it will fail miserably. Because it all comes down to whos running it. Even as ok as CCM was to Perri and I, because of the people running it it had corruption that may not have effected us, but it effected others there and that makes it an unhealthy thing. I think the reason Perri is intent on advocating for her change is because not ever single principle of the program sucks. Im sorry guys but i just dont think it was 100% retarded. I learned a great deal about being responsible and taking accountability for my actions. To me that dosnt mean accepting accountability for stuff that isnt mine. It means that where I need to responsiblility for my actions I do. I cant go on blaming others for my mistakes. For instance I quit smoking two days ago. i get into the habit at times of blaming others for my ability to not quit. My husband smokes and that makes it hard, my friends smoke and that makes it hard, nicotine gum is too expensiv eand gross, blah blah blah. But when it came down to it, I just needed to suck it up and stop making excuses of why I needed to keep smoking. Another example is my mom and I got inot it a while back. She was helping my husband and I buy a house, helped us fix it up, and is still tring to help us sell it. Now, my mom put in more work than me and my husband when we fixed it up and paid for all the materials. All she wanted was for us to show we cared and put in the effort it takes to fix up a house. But we always had excuses as to why we couldnt. Cant find a babysitter, JJs sick, Im tired, blah blah. the truth was we both are lazy and didnt want to do it. When my mom confronted me about the house not gettign done soon enough, i took a good look at my ecuses and realized I was the one responsible for my actions. I needed to put in more effort and I was just not doing it. I cant go very long without realizing where I am mistaken about things and change that behavior. I think that is a grat thing for me. i dont think Im a ba person. We all do that from time to time. But Im glad that I can change that quickly now. All I know is I was a miserable unhappy person. Then I went to the program. After that my life changed, and I feel for the better. But to be fair, I also continued therapy outside the program and continued working on my relationshoip wiht my parents too. we would not be as close as we are if I hadnt done alot of work on our relationship after the program. I can see Ginger and others points about the parts of the program that are fucked up. But I can see the small glimer of good it has too. Ginger is right though. The greedy bastards who are running the program WILL NOT REFORM IT. They just wont. That would mean less money and a conciouse. So no it wont happen. I am more looking foreward to the programs shutting down and someone new with better intentions and safer ideas to open a better program for those who need it. For now teaching our kids how to be responsible, strong, caring people is the best defense we have. We need to teach our kids from the beginning that they are loved. That they are creative beings who can healthily experess their feelings. We need to bond wit them from birth, make them feel safe so they trust us and believe in themselves. We need to teach them to be more aware of their community and their world so they learn to care for others. we need to teach them how to make choices and how to deal wiht disappointment in a healthy and real way. I guess for now that is the best we can do.
Amanda
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Anybody interested in reading details of allegations against Byron Grant concerning sexual abuse, please visit this page: http://www.isaccorp.org/tranquility/tra ... report.pdf (http://www.isaccorp.org/tranquility/tranquilityreport.pdf)
You will need acrobat reader.
For my naysayer friend, the Mr. Grant I?m referring to may have been a driver at one point but was a family father when I was there ? from 1999 to 2001. He was a big man and loved talking about his brief amateur boxing stint. He had something of a flat-top fade and gigantic hands. He worked with Honor at one point and may have also been Renaissance?s family father. People first became suspicious of Mr. Grant when he began calling kids at home after they had left TB ? typical pedophilic behavior. Read the full report.
There are rumors that he was convicted on child molestation charges stemming from a separate incident with children in his neighborhood. He is supposedly serving time in prison. These rumors have not been verified.
In any case, I don?t want to say that Mr. Grant?s appetite for young boys is irrelevant ? because it is not ? but that is not the real issue. What is important to note is that the structure of WWASP created the conditions needed for Mr. Grant to prey on children.
And what is more important to note is that any institution that promotes behavior modification/brainwashing/coercive persuasion should not exist. Mind control is a violation of the most basic human rights. Any support for these or similar techniques is irresponsible at best. Personally, I consider supporters of WWASP deviant and callous. Others consider them wayward and ill informed. In any case, they are perpetuating the existence of a criminal and harmful organization.
By the way, I prefer asshole to bone-head but I suppose the latter will suffice.
Ryan Pink