Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on April 29, 2005, 10:21:00 AM
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This is a post I found while searching:
Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... um=9#94864 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=9129&forum=9#94864)
She says her teen daughter has been diagnosed by a professional with suicidal ideations and auditory hallucinations; she cuts herself, her grades dropped in school and she doesn't take good care of her appearance (what teen does?). The mother then explains she found out that her daughter was sexually molested by her uncle.
If this poor girl was sent to a WWASP facility, she would end up much worse off when she came out. There is no doubt of this. Even if she completely feel in love with the ideology, (brainwashing?) that will fade over the years. This is why WWASP is so dangerous. At least this mother questioned these facilities. All too many just like her fall for the trap, thinking their teen is getting treatment. When in reality, their teen is being scared into complying. They will either come home a scared, obedient, programmed program kid; or they will never come home. They will stay until 18, and then be forced onto the streets. All in the name of treatment? This is bullshit.
The worst part of reading that post was some of the responses. Look at this particular response:
Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... um=9#94869 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=9129&forum=9#94869)
There are thousands of people ready and willing to send others to a DAMNING FATE all for a little cash or some other reprehensible motive. It's disgusting. I hope karma catches up with these people. :flame:
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http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... um=9#97869 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=9299&forum=9#97869)
Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise.
--James Madison, U.S. President
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WWASP is a tough love behavior modification program. It is not safe for seriously depressed children. Several have attempted or actually committed suicide in WWASP programs. Their cruel, unloving approach is dangerous to those suffering from depression and will only make it worse.
Everything in moderation, including moderation.
Mark Twain
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One would think forced behavior modification would be dangerous to ANYONE, not just the clinically depressed.
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Tragedy at Montana school
by Ken Kay - President WWASP
435-656-2313
October 8, 2004
Spring Creek Lodge (SCL), the school for troubled teens close to Thompson Falls, MT, announced last night that a student had committed suicide at the school.
The identity of the girl and the exact manner of death are not being released at the request of the family.
?We are all in a state of complete shock,? said Chaffin Pullen, chief of operations at the school. ?Clearly we are deeply saddened by this event and are most of all devastated for the family.?
Pullen added that the girl, from Denver, CO, was under the supervision of a professional counselor and had also seen a psychiatrist since arriving at the school.
SCL was acutely aware of the girl?s fragility and had placed her on ?high risk? observation. She had recently been removed from ?high risk? after showing definite signs of improvement, a move that required the signatures of four SCL staff members who had direct contact with the girl, including the head of the school?s clinical mental health services.
Pullen said that he will be launching a detailed and immediate investigation into the events leading to the girl?s death. ?We will be making sure that this kind of tragedy cannot happen again,? he said.
SCL was arranging for grief counselors to attend to students at the school in the coming days.
The suicide was the first at SCL, which opened in 1996. Since the opening, more than 3,500 teens have attended SCL.
Ken Kay
President, WWASPS
321 No. Mall Dr. Bldg. T-101
St. George, Utah 84790
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The first time I was put on suicide watch was when my second therapist left. I never even said I was going to kill myself, all I said was hopefully I won't be here tomorrow, which the staff took as I'm going to kill myself. I was just wanted to run away. The next day I was put on silence, now if some would like to explaain the rationality of putting someone on suicide watch on silence that would be greatly appreciated. The first night the staff came in every three or four minutes and stared at me to make sure I was still breathing, let me tell you I didn't get much sleep that night.
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My child was put on suicide watch because she told the six staff members - who were dogpiling her because she got up to go to the bathroom without permission - that they were killing her - because she could not breathe.
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On 2005-04-29 09:20:00, cherish wisdom wrote:
"WWASP is a tough love behavior modification program. It is not safe for seriously depressed children. Several have attempted or actually committed suicide in WWASP programs. Their cruel, unloving approach is dangerous to those suffering from depression and will only make it worse. Everything in moderation, including moderation.
Mark Twain
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Cherish - Its not safe for ANY children! :eek: I cannot see how a man of any large degree of humorous perception can ever be religious -- unless he purposely shut the eyes of his mind and keep them shut by force.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist
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How can you say that they are not safe for any children? I to Spring Creek. And I know that I was safe there. The whole time I was there, I can honestly say that there was no abuse to me or anyone that I knew.
While I will not argue, 10 to 15 years ago these places were not safe. I wasn't there. I don't honestly know. But if my expierence at Spring Creek was anything like the expierences at any of the other Schools, they are safe.
I was suffering from depression when I went into the program. And while it is not ok that suicide attempts and even kids actually commiting suicide take place. Those were the same kids, that were trying to kill themselves outside of these facilities. Teenage suicide is a huge problem today. Instead of arguing the merits of these schools, maybe more people should be focusing on a better way to help these kids.
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On 2005-04-29 21:21:00, Brown wrote:
"How can you say that they are not safe for any children? I to Spring Creek. And I know that I was safe there. The whole time I was there, I can honestly say that there was no abuse to me or anyone that I knew.
While I will not argue, 10 to 15 years ago these places were not safe. I wasn't there. I don't honestly know. But if my expierence at Spring Creek was anything like the expierences at any of the other Schools, they are safe.
I was suffering from depression when I went into the program. And while it is not ok that suicide attempts and even kids actually commiting suicide take place. Those were the same kids, that were trying to kill themselves outside of these facilities. Teenage suicide is a huge problem today. Instead of arguing the merits of these schools, maybe more people should be focusing on a better way to help these kids.
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WWASPie bullshit. Spring Creek Lodge is a highly abusive program, like all the other WWASP gulags.
There is nothing safe about WWASP. There is nothing safe about being "cared" for by an bunch of untrained, underpaid rednecks/Mexicans/Jamaicans. There is nothing safe about the seminars, or their "group therapy". There is nothing safe about the constant physical abuse that is taking place in these places.
WWASP's program is designed to achieve one goal, and one goal only-- to destroy the child, so that the happy, well-adjusted, program-loving personality could be installed instead of the real, original self. That is all they do. Do not confuse this with help or treatment. It is murder.
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On 2005-04-29 21:21:00, Brown wrote:
"How can you say that they are not safe for any children? I to Spring Creek. And I know that I was safe there. The whole time I was there, I can honestly say that there was no abuse to me or anyone that I knew.
While I will not argue, 10 to 15 years ago these places were not safe. I wasn't there. I don't honestly know. But if my expierence at Spring Creek was anything like the expierences at any of the other Schools, they are safe.
I was suffering from depression when I went into the program. And while it is not ok that suicide attempts and even kids actually commiting suicide take place. Those were the same kids, that were trying to kill themselves outside of these facilities. Teenage suicide is a huge problem today. Instead of arguing the merits of these schools, maybe more people should be focusing on a better way to help these kids.
"
WWASPie bullshit. Spring Creek Lodge is a highly abusive program, like all the other WWASP gulags.
There is nothing safe about WWASP. There is nothing safe about being "cared" for by an bunch of untrained, underpaid rednecks/Mexicans/Jamaicans. There is nothing safe about the seminars, or their "group therapy". There is nothing safe about the constant physical abuse that is taking place in these places.
WWASP's program is designed to achieve one goal, and one goal only-- to destroy the child, so that the happy, well-adjusted, program-loving personality could be installed instead of the real, original self. That is all they do. Do not confuse this with help or treatment. It is murder.
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Bullshit. You guys are so full of it. Ok b/s as far as my personal experience goes. I wasn't abused. Guess there really are a lot of weak people out there. Hmm.
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On 2005-04-30 01:48:00, Perrigaud wrote:
"Bullshit. You guys are so full of it. Ok b/s as far as my personal experience goes. I wasn't abused. Guess there really are a lot of weak people out there. Hmm. "
Again, you say you're talking about your "own personal experience", yet at the same time you invalidate the experiences of everybody else.
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Again. Hence the it's B/S in accordance to my experience. If I thought that that was the case with all of the experiences I would have said it's all B/S in alignement with EVERY experience.
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On 2005-04-30 01:48:00, Perrigaud wrote:
"Bullshit. You guys are so full of it. Ok b/s as far as my personal experience goes. I wasn't abused. Guess there really are a lot of weak people out there. Hmm. "
Perri, I used to read your posts with interest and respect but what a bunch of bullshit you just wrote. What the fuck do you mean by there are a lot of "weak people" out there??? It appears that you're suggesting that they were abused b/c they're weak and you weren't b/c you're the strong one. WTF??
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Perri, these angry posters are becoming exactly like those they say they despise. They are trying to make you admit to something that never happened. Isn't that what they accuse the program of doing? I don't understand why it is so important to them to want everyone in a program abused. It seems they would be thrilled that there are many people that not only survive the programs but come out stronger and better prepared for life. The reason you get mostly negative stuff on these boards is because all the success stories have a life and are doing something meaningful with it.
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On 2005-04-30 06:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Perri, these angry posters are becoming exactly like those they say they despise. They are trying to make you admit to something that never happened.
Nope. We have read dozens and dozens of similar stories from Cross Creek about abuse. A lot of us have ACTUALLY been to a WWASP facility. Real people telling their real stories about horrible events.
Isn't that what they accuse the program of doing?
Nope. I accuse the program of: Physical abuse, sexual abuse, torture, emotional abuse, starvation, isolation. If you were AT one of these facilities, which it is obvious you weren't, you'd realize everything about them is illegal. Obviously the government cares about our kids as much as you do, not much.
I don't understand why it is so important to them to want everyone in a program abused.
I only read people telling their own story of abuse, not pushing it on others. When there's smoke...
It seems they would be thrilled that there are many people that not only survive the programs but come out stronger and better prepared for life.
I'm happy for the kids who were able to move on and start a new life better and stronger.
The reason you get mostly negative stuff on these boards is because all the success stories have a life and are doing something meaningful with it."
The actual reason is because WWASP searches you before you leave so you cannot stay in contact with anyone from the program. This website is the only good website you can find when searching the web for other alumni. The fact this forum has filled with horror stories should be an obvious sign of a greater problem.
Different people have very unique experiences. For example, if one child was being tortured, isolated and starved for months at one end of a facility, while another child led a relatively comfortable life because they were able to follow the program, would you consider that program safe? This is the reality. One experience does not justify it for all others!
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True. Not everyone has the same experience. I am done getting mad about all the wanting to pigeon hole. Good luck to you all.
I refuse to believe people are weak. We are not. We are so strong. Most of us don't even realize our true strength. I realize it and live it.
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On 2005-04-30 05:48:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-04-30 01:48:00, Perrigaud wrote:
"Bullshit. You guys are so full of it. Ok b/s as far as my personal experience goes. I wasn't abused. Guess there really are a lot of weak people out there. Hmm. "
Perri, I used to read your posts with interest and respect but what a bunch of bullshit you just wrote. What the fuck do you mean by there are a lot of "weak people" out there??? It appears that you're suggesting that they were abused b/c they're weak and you weren't b/c you're the strong one. WTF??"
I second that motion.
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Perhaps the reason you don't hear of many "success stories" is because most people wouldn't credit a year at some fucked up reformatory with their being "successful".
Or maybe other former "students" of these places are too busy raising 12 kids on welfare, or maybe they are in jail or adult psychiatric facilities, or maybe they just don't have access to a computer.
Maybe others are still just as miserable as their programs made them.
I am a happy, productive, functional human being not because of PCS, but in spite of it.
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I'm successful with the HELP (that means they had some impact not all the credit) with my success. To each their own.
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On 2005-05-03 05:24:00, Perrigaud wrote:
"I'm successful with the HELP (that means they had some impact not all the credit) with my success. To each their own. "
Oh, so that's why you still troll here and defend their abusive practices 5 years later.
People who get normal, legitimate therapy to get over a problem will use the help they got, get over their problem, and move on with their lives. You seem to want constant approval and validation that you have indeed been helped (you haven't, by the way-- you were brainwashed by a Lifespring spin-off). Maybe that's a good sign, though-- maybe you do have a chance to snap out of it.
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Um yes that's exactly it. I'm completely brainwashed and have no idea of what really is going on around me. So I troll around defending the program yet subconscously looking for an answer....Please! I just think that everyone needs to hear both sides of the coin. Not just one. Move on? You should talk. There are those on this forum that have been dealing with these programs for years and yet you don't tell them to move on. "It's because they're traumatized." Ok so I was helped and I want people to know all of what goes on. Hypocritical...interesting. Again, why shouldn't I speak of my experience? Cause you think I am tainted? Please. I have just as much of right. Nothing you say will cause me to leave. Sorry! [ This Message was edited by: Perrigaud on 2005-05-04 05:44 ]
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On 2005-05-03 06:42:00, Perrigaud wrote:
"Um yes that's exactly it. I'm completely brainwashed and have no idea of what really is going on around me. So I troll around defending the program yet subconscously looking for an answer....Please! I just think that everyone needs to hear both sides of the coin. Not just one. Move on? You should talk. There are those on this forum that have been dealing with these programs for years and yet you don't tell them to move on. "It's because they're traumatized
." Ok so I was helped and I wasnt people to know all of what goes on. Hypocritical...interesting. Again, why shouldn't I speak of my experience? Cause you think I am tainted? Please. I have just as much of right. Nothing you say will cause me to leave. Sorry! "
Again (for the millinoth time...) no one is telling you to leave, or saying that you don't have the right to post (this isn't the program, we don't do shit like that).
What I am saying is that people should what you're saying in perspective and understand where you're coming from. People should understand that you have completely accepted WWASP's POV, and that it is WWASP that you represent, not the average inmate.
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Parents who might be reading this should also know that if Perrigaud will manage to convince you to send your kid to one of WWASP's gulags, she will be paid $1,000 referral fee.
Make no mistake here: her motives aren't as pure and right as she tries to make them out to be. WWASP is a destructive, abusive treatment cult, that exists only to generate income for its leaders. Look up "Lifespring", the cult from which WWASP was created.
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I found this a helpful read. Perhaps you might find some truth in it Perri ~ BTW, do you even know what "Lifespring" is?
I think you're afraid to admit what really happened to you in there, Perri.
The Prey of Cults
by Perry DeAngelis
The New England Journal of Skepticism Vol. 1 Issue 4(Fall '98)
It is estimated that between two and five million Americans are involved in cultic groups (Singer,1995). It is hard to assess a more accurate count because, as in all things, cultic groups are deceptive about their numbers. Deception is their hallmark, used at every level from recruitment, to thought control, to contact with the outside. It is their very life?s blood and the primary attribute that marks them as distinct from mainstream, and non-destructive groups.
In this first of a two-part article, we will give a brief overview of cults, and then discuss recruitment and initial adherence to such groups. Part two will discuss leaving a cult and the aftermath, as well as how we can deal with such groups in the future.
What is a Cult?
In the early Bronze Age when people were settling themselves into temple-centered urban environments, there arose amongst them, in response to natural disasters, priest-kings. Others gave to these charismatic potentates provisions to sustain them, while they carried out ever more complicated blood sacrifices. Thus were the first leaders and the first commoners born (Heinsohn, 1998). From this grisly womb modern day cults have emerged, and their destructive nature has not changed in 4000 years.
Due to the large variety of modern cults, and their vastly differing control and manipulation mechanisms, it is difficult to give an all-inclusive one-sentence definition of a cult. Following is a list into which most cults can be classified (Singer, 1995):
Neo-Christian religious
Hindu and Eastern religion
Occult, witchcraft, satanist
Spiritualist
Zen and other Sino-Japanese philosophical-mystical orientation
Racial
UFO/outer-space phenomena
Psychological or psychotherapeutic
Political
Self-help, self-improvement, life-style systems
The primary reason these groups exist is to utterly control its membership so as to venerate its special ?needs.? They seek to remove from their membership the ability to think critically and make life decisions. They retrain the victim to think in their own highly defined and constricting manner, so that they become a pawn to the will of the leader. This process is not accomplished through argument or force as is often thought, but rather with subtle persuasion, flattery, guilt, and always, deception.
Robert Lifton defined five tried and true methods destructive groups use to ensnare and keep their flocks corralled (Lifton, 1989).
1) Totalism ? This is an us against them philosophy, which is used to achieve complete separation from the past, which is portrayed as filled with the satanic or unenlightened.
2) Environmental Control ? Everything that perspective recruits see, eat, and do every waking minute is carefully manipulated.
3) Loading the Language ? This is the jargon of the cult, which take the form of quick easy phrases and statements that only have meaning to the cultists. Such jargon encourages isolationism and cloning.
4) Demand for Purity ? All actions are judged by the cult?s definition of purity, which is crafted by the leadership to suit their needs. Such definitions are applied in an absolute, black and white, manner. Anything is acceptable in the pursuit of this purity.
5) Mystical Leadership ? The cult leader endows himself with a mystical mantle, often an agent of divine powers on Earth. Confession and denunciation to the leader are ingrained. The victim acquires a pawn-like attitude, wherein devotion and obedience to the leader supersede standards of morality or self-preservation, even unto choices of life and death.
The more obvious and pervasive the above philosophies are in a group, the more adherent the group will be to ideological totalism, and the more it will use these devices to corrupt an individual?s will, making the group more of a cult. There is no clear line separating cults from non-cults. Rather, ideological groups exist on a spectrum from very benign to completely destructive, even fatal. There is no clear answer to the question of how many traits, and to what degree, are necessary for a group to qualify as a cult, and judgements should be made on an individual basis. The remainder of this article, however, will deal with those groups that clearly fall into the cult end of this continuum.
There is one characteristic, however, that all true cults seem to share, and that is the deliberate use of deception. The details of their belief system are revealed to recruits only in stages, calculated to draw them in, step by step, without scaring them off up front. You have to reach the inner circle (level 5) of Scientology, for example, before you learn that we are all allegedly possessed by the banished spirits of alien beings, and that this is the true cause of human suffering. Mainstream beliefs, rather, are completely up front with their beliefs and make no attempt to conceal them.
How Cults Recruit
Historically, cults have thrived during times of societal vulnerability. When people are at a loss to make sense of the rapid changes around them, and are forced to rethink much of what they once held as true, they are fertile ground for cult membership.
For example, after the fall of Rome, or during the French and Industrial Revolutions, cults sprang up in there-to-fore unprecedented numbers. The siren song of the recruiters promising to wash away the fear and uncertainty of the time was simply too alluring for many to deny, and the cults bulged. In our modern age, the fall of the Soviet Union has left many in Eastern Europe lost and alienated, and cults are swarming there to harvest in this sea of confusion. The black and white philosophies of the cults are much easier to digest than the complex and dynamically changing society.
Cults recruit people from all socioeconomic strata, and of all ages. In the past it is true that most people who joined cults were in their late teens and twenties, a time when many of us are rebellious by nature. It was the counter-culture aspects of these groups that was intoxicating and many joined to find a new freedom, only to discover they had found a more confining prison than ever before. Some cult apologists utilize these youths to claim that these groups are not bad because these young people are ?seekers,? people seeking answers to grand questions. This is wholly untrue. Cult recruitment reaches out with malign intent and traps its victims with deception. The true nature of the group is never ever discussed up front. One cannot join a group to aid them in their ?search? if they do not know what the group is actually about. Yet, nowadays, cults recruit all ages and in fact actively seek out older people who have accumulated estates that can be willed to the group.
Two main aspects seem to be predominant in making a person vulnerable to cult recruitment. The first is that they are between substantial life affiliations. These are times such as between college and a job, traveling for an extended period, arriving at a new location, recently rejected, fired, or divorced. Any time that a person does not have a compelling connection in their life, they are extremely vulnerable to the seeming familial-ness of cultic recruitment. The second aspect is that of depression. A person suffering from depression that is not completely debilitating, is very malleable and easily soothed by the honey coating of cultic deception. These groups seem to offer nearly instant, often simplistic and focused, solutions to the myriad of problems daunting us. In the Psychiatric Times, Michael D. Langone, Ph.D., put forth the following list of aspects that are most often present in those who succumb to cultic enticements;
A high level of stress or dissatisfaction
Lack of self-confidence
Unassertiveness
Gullibility
Desire to belong to a group
Low tolerance for ambiguity
Naive idealism
Cultural disillusionment
Frustrated spiritual searching
Susceptibility to trance-like states
It is these very weaknesses that the packs of recruiters seek out like blood in the water. Recruiters for these groups are trained to spot such susceptible people, and know well the signs of such vulnerabilities. When they strike up a conversation with these marks, they continue this process of ?cold reading? (See TCS Vol Iss. ) the victim. They are able to assess the individual?s needs very rapidly, and will mold their speak to salve those needs. To a person suffering from anxiety and want of affiliation and affection, these bright soothing words from a stranger whose only motivation is seemingly to help, are monumentally persuasive. Even the physical method of the first contact with a mark is described in detail in many cults? instructional manuals. They tell in what posture and distance to sit from a mark, so as to not be too threatening, yet maintaining control of the conversation. Keeping direct eye contact is emphasized.
In a Children of God manual, it states, ?Let the Holy Spirit work through you.? In this case, the eye to eye contact is referred to in the manual as, ?...letting the Light of Jesus come through your eyes into the other person?s eyes.?
The Recruiters are often skilled at displaying empathy for their marks, so as to make themselves seem similar to their marks. If the recruit is a laborer, for example, then the recruiter will discuss his alleged time in some grueling labor-intensive employ. In contrast, if the mark is a writer, the recruiter will passionately speak about the difficulty of writing and being rejected by publishers. This is a highly intelligent practice, and speaks directly to the insidious nature of destructive cults. Yet it must also be mentioned that many are persuaded into cults by people they know. In a recent survey of 381 former cult members, 66% said that their initial contact came via friends or family.
In Their Clutches
After this initial contact the victim is prepared for the invitation. The invitation is a crucial part of the recruitment process, for it is the first time that the victim will be out of their own familiar world, and enter into the nebulous world of the cult. This could be an invitation to a dinner, a lecture, a seminar, a volleyball game, etc. Anything that the recruiter believes the victim will acquiesce to after the initial assessment. This get together can be almost anywhere, a restaurant or beach, for example. What the victim will usually find at this first gathering is the cult?s ?front group.?
A front group is simply a cadre of select individuals from within the cult that act as a mask for the cult?s real agenda. Often cults will have several different front groups that can appeal to a wide variety of interests and needs. At this initial meeting the victim is swarmed over by the front group as affection and attention are lavished. The primary purpose of this action is to get the recruit to agree to a longer-term commitment at the cult?s facility, for say a three day weekend, which they will quickly turn into a full week and beyond.
Getting the victim to accept an invitation to the cult?s facility is the second crucial step for the cult. For once therein, the actual separation from the outside world is effectuated. Here the process of thought reform begins in earnest. The recruit is surrounded by veteran members of the cult that sing its praises ceaselessly, chiming on and on about the inherent strength of whatever new belief system is being advocated. The leader is praised without end as his uniqueness is revealed and he is claimed to be the savior of mankind via whatever method he has chosen; i.e. revealed knowledge, perfect social paradigms, ancient or alien wisdom etc. The fact that there is little or no objective evidence to support these claims is glossed over with the group?s jargon. Again, the recruit feels that he is somehow not as ?good? as the other members because he does not understand the specific language and nonsense words of the cult. Only through a parroting of such, does he get approval.
These veteran cult members begin immediately to direct the recruit?s actions, keeping their time carefully filled with meetings, exercise, reading cult propaganda, chanting, and whatever else the particular cult has found that will occupy the recruit?s thinking time. This oppressive atmosphere does not allow for reflection and negative feelings, and questions are suppressed, as these are only the victim?s old unclean ways trying to surface. All connection with the past is attacked. The recruit?s family and friends are painted as unenlightened and need to be shunned until they too have seen the way. Victims are made to feel that they too were bad in their old lives and this guilt is reinforced by the denunciation of the past. This guilt that is ensconced after the initial waves of love that the group showered on the recruit is very confusing and causes much anxiety. Recruits are never allowed to speak with other recruits who might share their initial doubts and hesitations. They are made to believe that if they have doubts they are the only ones and should be ashamed of them. Their critical faculties are derided at every turn.
All of the above is carefully blended with a program of controlling the recruit physiologically. They are often kept so busy by the cult that they become sleep deprived. Members can be made to hyperventilate by loud repetitive chanting. This causes there to be too little carbon dioxide in the blood, causing it to become too alkaline and leading to respiratory alkalosis. This in turn makes the victim light- headed and woozy, further declining their critical processes. Special and restrictive diets are enforced to make the recruit weak and uncomfortable. Sometimes cults load their members up on sugar to give them an artificial high so the cult?s activities and propaganda will temporarily excite them. Stories are told of leaders passing out hoards of candy bars during long sessions of speeches and teachings. Purging and colonics are used as well as dehydration, all to make the subject more confused, disoriented, and dependent. In one group, the Divine Light Mission, the leader would dim the lights, then go around to the members and press on their eyeballs until the pressure on their optic nerves caused a flash of light to be perceived. The leader claimed that this was divine light, caused by his ministrations.
Even the recruit?s appearance is often altered to suit the cult?s standards. This can be anything from a special uniform, to cutting ones hair a certain way, to constantly wearing cult paraphernalia. Changing a person?s long held appearance can have a profound effect on their sense of continuity, and makes them feel more than ever that they have begun an entirely new life. The recruits are even sometime required to take on new names.
This pattern of ?antagonism, apathy, and acceptance,? is classic in cultic groups. The antagonism is any resistance that the victim might have to the indoctrination process when first inducted. This is quickly quelled via the above described methodology, and the recruit moves into the apathy stage. The knowledge that it would simply be easier to just go with the flow, drop any excoriated resistance that they may have had, and just fall into the pillowy conformity of the encompassing group - which of course leads directly to acceptance and the final attenuation of individuality and self-preservation.
We have discussed the various methods by which cults trap their victims for their own nefarious purposes. Yet, with all this allied against them, in the next article we will see that people can emerge from these totalist groups to once again be productive self-reliant members of society.
References:
1) Singer, Margaret T. Cults in Our Midst. San Francisco, CA: Jossey-Bass Publishers, 1995.
2) Appel, Willa. Cults in America: Programmed for Paradise. New York, NY: Holt, Rinehart and Winston, 1983.
3) MacCollam, Joel, A. Carnival of Souls: Religious Cults and Young People. New York, NY: Seabury Press, 1979.
4) Lifton, Robert Jay, M.D. Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism. The University of North Carolina Press / Chapel Hill and London, 1961, r1989.
5) Novella, Robert. Cold Reading. The Connecticut Skeptic vol. 2 issue 2 (Spring 1997), pg 3
6) Heinsohn, Gunnar. http://www.teleport.com/~kronia/journals/sacrfice.txt (http://www.teleport.com/~kronia/journals/sacrfice.txt), 1998
7) Langone, Michael D. http://www.mhsource.com/edu/psytimes/p960714.html (http://www.mhsource.com/edu/psytimes/p960714.html), 1998
PART II
In the first of this two part article, we looked at the many mechanisms cults use to ensnare their members, and how good folk might be susceptible to them. In this part, we will examine the aftermath of emerging from a cult, and the return to a productive life.
By Perry DeAngelis
The New England Journal of Skepticism Vol. 2 Issue 1 (Winter '99)
The experience of coming out of a cult is much more difficult than entering one. On the way in all is sugar and light. The courting process has just begun and you are still feeling that the cult is enhancing your personality. It is only during the exiting process that you learn the cult has in fact stolen it. The damaging methods a cult uses to beguile members leaves mental wounds in the former member that often take years to heal. The reduction of one?s will to resist and the degradation of one?s critical faculties make the transition back to freedom very difficult.
There are several key characteristics that accompany almost all ex-cult members:
Fear is a ubiquitous concern of ex-cult members. Many cults use all sorts of fear to maintain loyalty to the group. Everything from denunciation, to claims of damnation, to physical force has been used to both retain and return members. Ex-members are often encouraged, if not forced, to change locations, telephone numbers and even their names to escape the harassment of their former groups. Of course, this fear is always much more acute when a family member, particularly a child, is left in the group. The group can threaten the child with sanctions unless the member returns, and at the very least almost always severs all contact with the ?traitor.?
Another after-effect that ex-cult members must deal with is ?flashback.? Not unlike ?shellshock,? (wherein combat veterans react with inappropriate motion and fear to any loud noise), ex-cult members will sometimes find themselves wandering back to the trance-like state they were ensconced in during their cultic days. These times of ?floating? are triggered by stress, deep depressions, or when the cult?s jargon is heard even in completely unrelated contexts. These flashbacks decrease in frequency over time, but can last for months. (Singer, 1995)
The attack on one?s mentality when in a cult leaves the victim?s cognitive skills dulled. It takes time to retrain one?s mind to evaluate and perceive in ?real time.? The outside world is a busy and complex place. The empty simplicity of the cultic core is gone, and the sensory input can sometimes be daunting to one who has languished in trance-like obedience for an extended period of time. For this reason, tasks should be attempted in ascending level of difficulty and complexity, as one would when training to do these things for the first time.
Many ex-members report that they are often consumed with guilt, a guilt which may take many forms. When within the cult, members are often forced to perform illegal activities, learning to con, trick and steal from others. They compel donations in a variety of dishonest and coercive manners. They expel personal morality to the will of the cult and this leaves them deeply ashamed. They are uncertain how they can face up to these actions, and how they can repay those they themselves victimized. Further, ex-members may feel very troubled about close friends and family members that were left behind in the cult. This makes the dismissal of the cult very difficult. When their feelings for those still within the cult call to them most strongly, they may even begin to get doubts about leaving the cult. Maybe it was they who failed, and not the cult or the loved ones still within. How can it be so totally wrong if my wife still adheres relentlessly to the teachings? Could the leader have been right? This miasma of doubt and confusion can be debilitating and slow recovery to a crawl. Finally, ex-members must come to face those that they severed in the outside world when they were absorbed by the cult. How can they ever hope to explain to them what it took to make them sever all ties, and indeed, to deride them? When faced with the love and concern that loved ones maintained for them even when they were chanting of their evils at the leader?s behest, the look in the mirror can be shattering.
This shame leads directly into another very real problem faced by ex-cult members ? the continual bombardment of questions, and the obligation to explain to everyone. It is exceptionally difficult to explain to those never victimized by a recruiter and thence a cult about the subtleties of manipulation and coercion that ensnared them. To describe the charisma of the leader in full spread and the atmosphere of euphoria that the combined manipulation of the cult could cause is all but impossible to those not initiated into the psychology of totalistic groups. It leaves ex-cult members feeling as if no one on the outside understands what they went through and makes them feel pitied. Further, family and friends often put the emerged under a microscope, watching for any signs of weakness that may be indications that the ex-member may again become the mark of the old, or even a new, group. This situation often leads to encounters where both the watchers and the watched sense an air of concern, but fail to communicate it effectively. Tensions can quickly rise under such circumstances and the ex-members sense of self-worth can be eroded by the perceived feeling that loved ones do not believe they can care for themselves properly.
The entire sense of self that was so artificially inflated at times in the cult must be reassessed in a realistic state. No longer can the person consider themselves the ?chosen.? In the cult they may have been the ?saviors of mankind,? or the ?sources of eternal light and reason,? all of which must be let go. They are suddenly just like everyone else; still searching, still struggling, and still hoping. They are left feeling that perhaps they are not only not chosen, but that they are valueless. They have very difficult times learning to trust again. Fear of being victimized again can make them cynical and distant. The question of how they can join any other group and not be corrupted again is an ever-present one. (Lifton, 1989)
Helping Victims Cope
The primary way one can help an ex-cult member reemerge as a healthy person, is through understanding ? understanding their plight and helping them to understand what happened to them. It must be explained to them with firm compassion that they were the victims of a time tested cohesive and insidious set of manipulations that have ensnared countless millions. They must be made to see how and why they were ensnared, and given the tools to avoid it in the future.
What follows is a list of questions that have been found to be helpful when worked through with ex-cult members. They are excerpted from ?Captive Hearts, Captive Minds: Freedom and Recovery from Cults and Abusive Relationships? by Madeleine Tobias and Janja Lalich. (Tobias, 1994)
Reviewing their recruitment:
1. What was going on in your life at the time you joined the group or met the person who became your abusive partner?
2. How and where were you approached?
3. What was your initial reaction to or feeling about the leader or group?
4. What first interested you in the group or leader?
5. How were you misled during recruitment?
6. What did the group or leader promise you? Did you ever get it?
7. What didn?t they tell you that might have influenced you not to join had you known?
8. Why did the group or leader want you?
Understanding the psychological manipulation used in the group:
1. Which controlling techniques were used by your group or leader: chanting, meditation, sleep deprivation, isolation, drugs, hypnosis, criticism, fear. List each technique and how it served the group?s purpose.
2. What was the most effective? the least effective?
3. What technique are you still using that is hard to give up? Are you able to see any effects on you when you
practice these?
4. What are the group?s beliefs and values? How did they come to be your beliefs and values?
Examining their doubts
1. What are your doubts about the group or leader now?
2. Do you still believe the group or leader has all or some of the answers?
3. Are you still afraid to encounter your leader or group members on the street?
4. Do you ever think of going back? What is going on in your mind when this happens?
5. Do you believe your group or leader has any supernatural or spiritual power to harm you in any way?
6. Do you believe you are cursed by God for having left the group?
The above questions will help the victim understand the mechanisms that enslaved them and allow them to talk openly about their fears, both past and current. Once the victim begins to see themselves as a victim and appreciates the need to avoid such in the future, the rebuilding and reawakening process of their atrophied critical faculties can begin in earnest.
The ex-member must be reoriented to ?reality.? This process can be accomplished by simple tasks that help them to rebuild a fulfilling connection with the outside world. Anything that might bewilder or entrance must be meticulously avoided. No drugs or alcohol should be consumed during this tenuous time. Anything that might cause a state of sensory overload should be avoided (loud music, crowds, a large urban environment, etc). The maintenance of routines in the early recovery stages are a good idea. Making checklists of activities and following the schedule is important, as is planning out purchases and projects well beforehand. The reorientation to reality can be accomplished by keeping apprised of current events, via newspapers, television news and talk shows, and talk radio. It has been suggested that using a timer and increasing reading periods progressively can increase reading ?stamina.? (Patrick, 1999)
When all of the above are coupled with the love of friends and family, anyone emerging from a totalistic group can once again join the ranks of the free willed. Membership in a cult may be a dark chapter in one?s life, but it need not be the entire story.
References:
1) Singer, Margaret T. Cults in Our Midst. San Francisco, CA: Jossey-Bass Publishers, 1995.
2) Lifton, Robert, Jay, M.D. Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism. The University of North Carolina Press / Chapel Hill and London, 1961, r1989.
3) Tobias, Madeleine and Lalich, Janja. Captive Hearts, Captive Minds: Freedom and Recovery from Cults and Abusive Relationships. New York, NY: Hunter House Publishers, 1994.
4) Ryan, Patrick L. Coping With Trance States: The Aftermath of Leaving a Cult, http://www.csj.org/studyindex/studyreco ... trance.htm (http://www.csj.org/studyindex/studyrecovery/study_trance.htm), January 1999
http://www.theness.com/articles/theprey ... s0104.html (http://www.theness.com/articles/thepreyofcults-nejs0104.html)
Every man has a property in his own person.
This nobody has any right to but himself.
The labor of his body and the work of his
hands are properly his.
--John Locke
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On 2005-05-03 07:08:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Parents who might be reading this should also know that if Perrigaud will manage to convince you to send your kid to one of WWASP's gulags, she will be paid $1,000 referral fee.
Make no mistake here: her motives aren't as pure and right as she tries to make them out to be. WWASP is a destructive, abusive treatment cult, that exists only to generate income for its leaders. Look up "Lifespring", the cult from which WWASP was created. "
Wait a second here. Do you have some more compelling reason to believe this than just what the rest of us have read here? Granted, WWASP does pay referal fees to people who claim them. So it's always a possability. But do you have some reason to believe it as fact, despite that she says outright that it's not true?
Ask around. A LOT of kids come out of these programs singing their praises. Then, years later, realize they weren't thinking clearly. There's some very powerful slight of mind at work here.
In a nutshell, it works like this. You take a young kid who's on the outs w/ family, in trouble at school or w/ the law; all these stressors piled on top of the normal uncertainty and emotional upheaval of adolescance. Then you exploit every emotional vulnerability you can find till they're convinced that they're hopeless, worthless, horrible children. Then, once they believe that, you offer salvation from this wretched state through unquestioning compliance w/ Program rules and dogma. After a few months of being treated almost like a normal human being, they believe that the Program has transformed them from that wretched, despicable teenager monster they never were.
Presto! On convert ready to go out into the world to provide free advertising. This is what Singer described as producing deployable agents. Haitians who are paying attention call them Zombie slaves. The beauty part is that you don't have to pay them. They think they're lucky to be alive at all and eternally grateful to their "savior".
Come to the woods, for here is rest. There is no repose like that of the green deep woods. Here grow the wallflower and the violet. The squirrel will come and sit upon your knee, the logcock will wake you in the morning. Sleep in forgetfulness of all ill. Of all the upness accessible to mortals, there is no upness comparable to the mountains.
-- John Muir
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On 2005-05-03 08:47:00, Antigen wrote:
"
On 2005-05-03 07:08:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Parents who might be reading this should also know that if Perrigaud will manage to convince you to send your kid to one of WWASP's gulags, she will be paid $1,000 referral fee.
Make no mistake here: her motives aren't as pure and right as she tries to make them out to be. WWASP is a destructive, abusive treatment cult, that exists only to generate income for its leaders. Look up "Lifespring", the cult from which WWASP was created. "
Wait a second here. Do you have some more compelling reason to believe this than just what the rest of us have read here? Granted, WWASP does pay referal fees to people who claim them. So it's always a possability. But do you have some reason to believe it as fact, despite that she says outright that it's not true?
Ask around. A LOT of kids come out of these programs singing their praises. Then, years later, realize they weren't thinking clearly. There's some very powerful slight of mind at work here.
In a nutshell, it works like this. You take a young kid who's on the outs w/ family, in trouble at school or w/ the law; all these stressors piled on top of the normal uncertainty and emotional upheaval of adolescance. Then you exploit every emotional vulnerability you can find till they're convinced that they're hopeless, worthless, horrible children. Then, once they believe that, you offer salvation from this wretched state through unquestioning compliance w/ Program rules and dogma. After a few months of being treated almost like a normal human being, they believe that the Program has transformed them from that wretched, despicable teenager monster they never were.
Presto! On convert ready to go out into the world to provide free advertising. This is what Singer described as producing deployable agents. Haitians who are paying attention call them Zombie slaves. The beauty part is that you don't have to pay them. They think they're lucky to be alive at all and eternally grateful to their "savior".
Come to the woods, for here is rest. There is no repose like that of the green deep woods. Here grow the wallflower and the violet. The squirrel will come and sit upon your knee, the logcock will wake you in the morning. Sleep in forgetfulness of all ill. Of all the upness accessible to mortals, there is no upness comparable to the mountains.
-- John Muir
"
I don't have any reason to think she's referring anyone, other than what I read here. I do believe that she's trying to get people to send their kids there, to convince them that her point of view is the only one that's valid-- if not for the money, then for the good feeling of being believed and having her views validated. I don't really know how to explain what I think about this-- just that I don't think she would mind, if the opportunity presents itself, to talk a parent into sending a kid to Cross Creek.
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It's only reasonable to conclude that perhaps some youth are helped by a program. I've talked to many who sing their praises yet admit that at times it was brutal. I do believe that some may credit their successful rehabilitation to the programs. Many are not helped and their have been many reports of abusive conditions. Most of the programs use a "break em dowm build em up approach." The professional community has been highly critical of this approach recently indicating that it does not work.
The function of the press is very high. It is almost holy. It ought to
serve as a forum for the people, through which the people may know freely what is going on. To misstate or suppress the news is a breach of trust.
--Mr. Justice Brandeis
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Break them down and build them up again? Okay, so tell me what the public and private schools are doing when they break down the kids that are "different", like AD/HD? They don't even attempt to build them up again.
Please do correct me if I'm wrong here. The people that want programs shut down are actually the kids that have been there. Or people that don't want programs to exist because they might get sent to one. Very few parents (that have never bee in a program) want them shut down from what I'm reading.
So, here we are, reading forums that in essence are here to brainwash people into thinking the worst. It's based on fear and isn't that what you say Teen Help does? Difference is that the parents already know they need serious intervention.
How many kids are dying or have no ambition because their parents are afraid to get program help? A whole lot less than could ever die at the hands of any program. Just a reminder. WWWASPS has never had a death at the hands of staff or even in direct relationship to anything they did.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it. :razz:
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Very few parents (that have never bee in a program) want them shut down from what I'm reading. //
There are plenty of program parents who want wwasp stopped. Plenty of us who believe the principal parties ought to be in prison. Some of us post here, but most don't.
//WWWASPS has never had a death at the hands of staff or even in direct relationship to anything they did. //
And how do you know this? Your guru tell you so?
I believe you are wrong. I believe the kids who have died, might very well have died, as a direct result of what WWASP did to them.
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Sorry to sound harsh, but duh on the message board you can say anything you like, and you can say it anonymously. Not so in programs where you are basically told what to think, say, do, etc. So there's that question. And did you know the NIMH after analyzing the research announced that these types of programs were NOT EFFECTIVE. They found family therapy to be more effective than tough residential groups like this.
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On 2005-05-03 14:22:00, Dolphin wrote:
"Break them down and build them up again? Okay, so tell me what the public and private schools are doing when they break down the kids that are "different", like AD/HD? They don't even attempt to build them up again.
Please do correct me if I'm wrong here. The people that want programs shut down are actually the kids that have been there. Or people that don't want programs to exist because they might get sent to one. Very few parents (that have never bee in a program) want them shut down from what I'm reading.
So, here we are, reading forums that in essence are here to brainwash people into thinking the worst. It's based on fear and isn't that what you say Teen Help does? Difference is that the parents already know they need serious intervention.
How many kids are dying or have no ambition because their parents are afraid to get program help? A whole lot less than could ever die at the hands of any program. Just a reminder. WWWASPS has never had a death at the hands of staff or even in direct relationship to anything they did.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it. :razz: "
I don't buy it.
There are good public and private schools for special needs kids like kids with ADHD. There are ways to learn to advocate for your child to get your kid's educational needs met.
If you have a really lousy school system, and you don't want to take them to due process hearings or can't prove they're foot dragging, there's homeschooling.
How many kids are dying that are not in the programs? Well, given that there are 296 *million* people in the US, at any given time there are a lot of teens dying from everything from car wrecks that are someone else's fault to accidental drownings to suicide to cancer.
What a weasel wording to say kids haven't died *directly* because of anything the programs have done.
Without *effective* treatment, bipolars have a 20% fatality rate from the disease. *With* effective treatment, that rate drops to 11%. NIMH says that the programs, which put mentally ill kids alongside juvenile delinquents, do the mentally ill kids more harm than good---that the programs are *NOT* effective treatment.
Well, that would work out to for every ten bipolar kids the program takes in who come out scared of treatment and very reluctant to go to psychiatrists for ongoing treatment, statistically one of those ten will die needlessly.
We *know* from program survivors on here that their program experiences make them *very* reluctant to trust psychiatrists, or to go in for any kind of psychiatric treatment.
A facility that is *ineffective or harmful* at treating mentally ill children, as NIMH says many of them are, that nonetheless takes in those children anyway---a facility that releases those children back into the world so skeptical of mental health care that they avoid it like the plague---that's not a prescription for "saving" your mentally ill teen.
That's a prescription for doubling his/her risk of dying over what it would have been if you simply continued with conventional treatment OR put your non-medication-compliant child in a mental health facility that operates on a medical model rather than a behavioral model.
You can say your favorite program, whatever it is this week, doesn't *directly* kill kids all you want.
The fact remains that NIMH says programs that put mentally ill children alongside juvenile delinquents do more harm than good.
And when those mental illnesses have fatality rates that are reduced by *effective* treatment, doing those children more harm than good, in statistical quantities of children, equates to more (needlessly) dead kids.
Sure, okay, so your program staff (whichever program(s) you're cheerleading for) don't *directly* kill kids. Fine. I'll accept that for the sake of argument, that they don't directly kill kids.
But dead is dead, "direct" or not.
Timoclea
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Historically, cults have thrived during times of societal vulnerability. When people are at a loss to make sense of the rapid changes around them, and are forced to rethink much of what they once held as true, they are fertile ground for cult membership.
Thanks for the great read, this quote stood out in my mind. You notice a lot of the program parents are always saying how much 'worse' things are 'these days.' How they didn't do the things teens do today when they were teens.
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On 2005-05-03 14:22:00, Dolphin wrote:
"Just a reminder. WWWASPS has never had a death at the hands of staff or even in direct relationship to anything they did."
So what is your point? If a program is able to keep it's staff from murdering a student, it should be allowed to operate unquestioned? As long as no murders take place, everything is fine? That is ridiculous.
No one has ever complained on the boards about their kid being murdered, have they? Why the reminder.. ?
WWASP has been accused of keeping kids in dog cages for weeks, kneeling in dirty cement buildings for months, pepper spraying a kid for months everyday, beatings, sexual abuse, and this list continues on, not to mention the suicides. Yes there have been a couple at the facilities.
What type of professional training do the staff have at WWASP facilities? Answer: None.
Is there a doctor present? Nope.
Licensed therapist? Only for the select few who's parents pay extra. One hour a week.
It's almost like we need a generic response for you WWASP apologists. We all know the horrible atrocities these facilities create and enable sadistic staff to perpetrate on youth. You can try to flood the boards with your BS, but it won't hide the truth.
The only arguments you can make are: " I was so fucked up before I went in.. man, I would be dead or in jail if my parents didn't send me!" "Only people who didn't graduate complain about the program.. they're jelous they didn't graduate, they are disgruntled students!" " We aren't the liars, thieves and brainwashers, you guys are!"
Well, these are pretty damn thin arguments, and I for one know how deep the bullshit is in your respsones. I hope parents who are considering sending their kid do as well.
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Wrong. CCM has licensed therapists. One for each group. Check what you say before you say it and look foolish for being misinformed. However yes, Casa and TB didn't have that. I'm not sure about the others.
$$$? Dang I'm really wealthy than aren't I. Wow. Crazy. No I'm not getting money for any of this. As I've stated before I just want to express my experience. Plus I'm also here to gain insight on what else goes on. You see, in order for me to learn more about the world around me I am to listen to all different facets. I have learned a lot since I have joined. I will not lie to you all. I will continue to stick by what I have said. Years down the line I will still feel the same way I do as I do right now about my experience.
Next you'll all be saying that I am one of the WWASP workers undercover. That and all your false accusations are amusing. However, I can understand why you all come up with those conclusions.
Yes I know what Lifespring is. No I wasn't in a cult. No you don't need to talk down to me either. That's quite condescending of you. Why, you are just being like the so-called cult I have joined. Breaking me to build me back up with your insults. Hmm[ This Message was edited by: Perrigaud on 2005-05-04 00:12 ]
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On 2005-05-04 00:10:00, Perrigaud wrote:
"As I've stated before I just want to express my experience. Plus I'm also here to gain insight on what else goes on."
Then why do you troll the boards day in, day out trying to discount other kid's experiences :question:
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Wrong. CCM has licensed therapists. One for each group. Check what you say before you say it and look foolish for being misinformed.
I find that hard to believe. WWASP is not known for its high professional standards. They are, however, known for their lies.
$$$? Dang I'm really wealthy than aren't I. Wow. Crazy. No I'm not getting money for any of this. As I've stated before I just want to express my experience. Plus I'm also here to gain insight on what else goes on.
So why do you try so hard to discount the experiences of others? You keep saying "I'm just stating my experience", but you hide behind that saying so you could invalidate and discount anything that counters your experience.
You see, in order for me to learn more about the world around me I am to listen to all different facets. I have learned a lot since I have joined.
I'm glad to hear that.
[/quote] I will not lie to you all. I will continue to stick by what I have said. Years down the line I will still feel the same way I do as I do right now about my experience. [/quote]
Don't be so sure about that. You seem to see the discussions here as some sort of war-- someone tells about abusive incidents which you say you never experienced, and the regular responseo ut of you is always, "Oh, yeah? Well, hon, there's no reason to believe you because *I* never saw that!". You phrase it differently, of course, but the message is the same.
Yes I know what Lifespring is.
That's good. Do you know that your beloved seminars are in fact Lifespring seminars?
No I wasn't in a cult.
Yes, you were. Still are. WWASP is a cult.
No you don't need to talk down to me either. That's quite condescending of you.
You talk down to anyone who disagrees with you. Do not be surprised if you are treated in the same manner. This is not the program. You can't treat people like shit and get away with it because they're afraid of talking back.
Why, you are just being like the so-called cult I have joined. Breaking me to build me back up with your insults.
Again, this is a discussion, not a war. No one is trying to "break you down". Why are you taking it all so personally? Do you really think words on a message board can destroy you and break you down in the same way words spoken in group sessions in the program can reduce a child to tears?
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"You talk down to anyone who disagrees with you. Do not be surprised if you are treated in the same manner. This is not the program. You can't treat people like shit and get away with it because they're afraid of talking back."
Um, I'm not treating anyone like shit. If they feel that way I'd hate to see what would happen if they were really put into a situation where someone truly is treating them like shit.
"I find that hard to believe. WWASP is not known for its high professional standards. They are, however, known for their lies."
Acutally yes CCM has LLC therapists. I'll get the info to back up what I say. The other facilities don't have therapists.
"So why do you try so hard to discount the experiences of others? You keep saying "I'm just stating my experience", but you hide behind that saying so you could invalidate and discount anything that counters your experience"
Or could it be that I say that that is my experience so as to not discredit others. I am aware that abuse has happened. I just never saw it. If I didn't say that it was my experience you would give me some bullshit about how just because I went through the program doesn't mean others had a different experience than me and that I should speak for myself and not others. Come on now. You people just twist shit around so much. If I thought others were lying I would just come out and say it. "That person's experience was full of lies." Is what I would say.
And again I'm not trolling. Believe what you want to.
"That's good. Do you know that your beloved seminars are in fact Lifespring seminars?"
Precious. Ah yes, because I DON'T remember ever saying anything about the seminars being so dear and essential. Cute though.
"You talk down to anyone who disagrees with you. Do not be surprised if you are treated in the same manner. This is not the program. You can't treat people like shit and get away with it because they're afraid of talking back."
It's not the program? Hmm I didn't know that. Hey thanks for telling me....Please. I don't mind if someone comes up with an opposing view. As long as they can back it up I'm ok with that. Oh and I am aware this is not the program. Hey but thanks for pointing that out to me. [ This Message was edited by: Perrigaud on 2005-05-04 05:49 ]
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How much time did you spend with this "licensed therapist"?
What about the direct caregivers? Are they licensed?
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The licensed therapist I spent 6 days out of 7.
Caregivers...well that's where Amanda and I aggree that they need reformation (they is the program). The staff weren't certified. We think that because of this abuse would rear it's ugly head. Staff weren't properly trained in restraining kids or how to deal with different situations.
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Hmmm..."perception"..."guess everyones perception is different"...well I guess my "perception" is that no program should be implemented by unlicensed, untrained people, EVER! Any nurse or doctor (worth their license) would agree.
You see, nurses and doctors and other licensed people are held ACCOUNTABLE for our actions at work. If we fuck up, we would be investigated, and could have our license taken away, and could not practice anymore.
These unlicensed workers are not monitored and are not held accountable for any of their unprofessional and non-theraputic behaviour (mostly, I guess because they don't know any better).
I don't mean to sound like some snob, or that I think I'm so smart or great cause I went to college for a few years. I don't. But I can see just how dangerous it is to have these idiots working with adolescents in these sorts of programs.
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IMO, a program should be nothing more than a damn retreat, a business that keeps them safe and removed from their problems - but doesnt FORCE isolation from the rest of the world! They also shouldnt do Behavior Modification on kids, and either need to cut out the seminars ENTIRELY, or somehow make them into something other than clumbsy therapy at best, extremely stressful and humiliating at worst.
Blaming it on perception to make it the kids or parents fault for the seminar being harmful to them isnt valid! It shouldnt be forced and required!! Something is wrong with the SEMINAR if it causes this in a percentage of people - and it seems to be rather high from the apparently high rate of emotional reactions out of it. I said apparent, not proven, intentionally, btw.
Anyway... get rid of this crap, which seems to be what makes a program a program, and you are left with a retreat with therapy, NOT a prison! Punishment and austere circumstances, level systems and BM, and seminars, are unnecessary, and harmful.
For something that has spread with all the forethought of kudzu, the Internet isn't half bad."
-- Newsweek, 2/27/95
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I aggree Niles. The fact that there are kids that are harmed by the seminars is not good. They may need to be taken away completely.
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The seminars are a joke. They are not treatment or therapy.. not sure how to describe them, but I doubt they are benificial to anyone. Sure, it makes people feel better to admit their bagage in front of other people with similar problems, but that euphoria does not last long.
I went through about half a dozen treatment facilities before I ended up at a WWASP camp.. school.. jail whatever you want to call it. WWASP is totally different than the others, it's like they put hicks from the local town put in charge of a treatment facility. Honestly, that is what it feels like. It feels like people who have no idea what they are doing are in charge of your entire life. It's physically and emotionally stressful the entire time you are there. The only good thing one can take from a WWASP program is having the confidence to survive fucked up situations. It makes you a stronger person (if you didnt break) in the end, but this argument can be made with any negative experience. There is no reason to pay for one!
WWASP is such a bad program I believe it should just be scrapped. There is no reason to improve it, it needs to be shut down. Their entire philosophy is based around those seminars. The rest of your stay is based around those seminars. Without the seminars, they would just have prison camps.
Forcing teenagers to change is the most ridiculous thing I've experience. They scarte the shit out of the kids, and put them under contract to obey. If they don't comply they go back to private prison. It's not complicated.
WWASP could easily change the structure of the program to be less emotionally damaging. It's the whole goddamn structure of the program. Too many details to list, bu this is not therapy. There are much better models for treatment out there. I've been through MANY facilities, WWASP does not even compare. They are a joke. A scam, money-making joke.