Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: disk_pusher on April 18, 2005, 06:13:00 PM
-
I am a former student of this institution, from Jan 1998 to May 2000, and I am seeking others. Irronically, I was miserable before it, but had never taken serrious action against my own life until after it.
Thank you for your time,
Liz
[ This Message was edited by: disk_pusher on 2005-04-18 16:05 ]
-
i too was there for a year and a half, from april 2002-oct 2003. when were you there?
marisa
-
Welcome. And please tell us something about Copper Canyon. What was it like? Who owns it or works there? Know anything of it's history? Where's it located?
Marihuana influences Negroes to look at white people in the eye, step on white men's shadows and look at a white woman twice.
--Hearst newspapers nationwide, 1934
-
At the time I attended Copper Canyon Accademy (Jan 1998 - May 2000), it was a mess. I was considered their "first student", although technically this is incorect. One girl was there breifly before me, for only two or three months. I watched the school grow from having a "max" populaton of 12, 16, 20, 24 to finally around 36. The consultant who sent me there was named Jill Porter, a miserable woman who was more than happy to send me to a school she had never seen, and never would visit until over a year after it's founding.
The original core Copper Canyon Academy staff consisted of Tammy Behrman (sp on last name), Patty Bowman, and Judy (last name unknown, an elderly caucasion woman). Tammy operated the school out of her house, a 5 bedroom home in Camp Verde, AZ. She and her husband lived downstairs, and students upstairs. Linda Cathcart (once again, sp) was the practicing therapist, and was joined by a female friend of hers (name forgotten). All these staff members came from a school called Spring Ridge Academy - apparently, Tammy was a part owner of that program, but her partner somehow tricked her out of her share. She claimed to be upset with the way the school was ran, but in truth from what I have read, ran CCA almost identically to SRA. CCA claimed to have many things - equine therapy, tailored educational services, and a professonal staff and atmosphere. It had none of these. The staff were terrible, and on one occasion, a staff member came in drunk to work. Many of the staff members were not qualified to work at anything more than Wal-Mart or Chevron, but were allowed to stay on because they were friends of Tammy's through the mormon church.
The school began doing much better once Tammy removed herself from power (although not from profit, as she still collected a sallry even while doing nothing). Once her brother, Darren, began running admisions and having a say in how the school was ran, things became much better. Also, the therapists Terry and Mark made a significant change to school policy, and made it a much more humane place, in which one was less likely to be punished for the whims of a staff-member. These two therapists left, however, they were replaced by staff that were, in my opinion, of equal caliber.
5 years have passed sence I attended CCA, and things are much different, and while I hope the program has become more professional and honest, I wonder how much this can be in a culture of deception fostered from the program's birth. I can personally say CCA made me worse, not better. My learning disability was ignored, my issues regarding social phobia were never addressed, and I left a much more passive and fearful person than when I started. I was unlucky in that I entered CCA at a young age - 13 years old. Older students seem to have delt with their experiences far more constructively, and I wish them the best of luck.
I could fill pages about what I think about this program, but it isn't relevant. CCA is dangerous because the woman who started it is dangerous.
Please forgive my spelling errors, but I haven't the time to proofread this.
~Liz
-
I was at Spring Ridge Academy and I think Tammy Behrmann left before I got there and Patti Bowman left the month I got there.
I do remember Linda Cathcart she and Sonja Fullwood left in June of 98'. They told us they were going to start a transition program for girls 17-22, I don't think that ever happened.
Not suprised that she was tricked out of her share becasue Jeannie is a very controlling woman and has to have everything her way. I remember the therapists would get ideas of things they wanted to do or have done and I always thought Jeannie will never approve that and I was proven right.
Do you remember Sequoia Smith being there?
-
Ah, Sonja. That was her name. We just nicknamed her "bulldog" and that's all I could remember. Actually, they were suposed to be on the ground floor of CCA, but Tammy pushed them out... guess she learned some business values from this Jeannie woman. Linda and Sonja started their own school, Blue Hills Academy. It was a disaster, and in one instance a student beat Linda's husband with a shovel. If only it was her being beaten.
Yes, I remember Sequoia. He was a kind person but questionable in his "effectiveness" to the administration, and joined CCA a few months before I left. I was transfered to his caseload, and was greatful for it. It was nice to be left alone for once.
Did you have to do Linda and Sonja's "Workshops"? Like that retarded one where you had to dance around until the group felt you were being "authentic"? Christ, I hated that crap. So did my family, actually - they walked out on their first workshop and never attended another. If only I had the liberty to do the same at the time.
-
No, Jeannie did all of what we called "trainings". The second training we had to dance or do what ever we were assigned to do and you had to go until everyone stood up and agreed you were being real. I was Miss Teen America and I had to dance to 2 songs, strut to one song, give a 5 minute speech about what its like to be miss teen america and answer questions that the other girls and Jeannie asked. Do you do the boat exercise where you had to tell the other people whether they lived or died?
I was kicked out of the first training because I refused to do the exercise where you walk across the room in a different way then anyone who has gone before you.
When my parents went through my mom almost wasn't let back in because she and the other parent she went to lunch with were late one day. My mom didn't like the part were they had to share there issues with their parents. She didn't have any with her dad so everyone thought she was lying or holding back.
Sonja was my second therapist out of three, I would have to say she was my favorite. My first was Chip Coffey and he was only mine for the first 2 months I was there then he left to Black Canyon the juvenille detention center. He said he would come back every weekend, most of us never saw him again. I don't think Jeannie would have allowed it though. Some of the girls saw him when they went to Black Canyon to play volleyballs with some of the girls there. They also did a training down there once.
I had Sonja for for 5 months. She always threatened that if I wouldn't talk to her she wouldn't be my therapist, which I tried not to have a therapist but that never worked. The session before she told us she was leaving she was asking me all these questions about wether I wanted her as a therapist and stuff, then when I found out she was leaving I was like what the hell why ask me all these questions when you know you aren't going to be my therapist anymore.
Then I had Katie Freeman who I liked a first but then did not like at all. I told one of the staff one day that I was mad at Katie and she went and told her. Katie was like I'm glad you told someone you were mad at me and she said she thought she was the best therapist for me. What a crock of shit, I was in therapy since I was 9 I think I know what kind of therapist I need. Katie also ruined my emotions/brain when she triend to something that she obviosly had no idea what she was doing.
I went to Sequoia's group one day he reminded me a little of Chip. I didn't like him he was really wierd. I remember this girl Kati had him and she told us that Seqouia was going to work with her to let out her anger and what that actually entailed was her sitting on the floor and him putting pillows all around her and asking if she was good. She was like what is this supposed to accomplish? He didn't seem like he really knew what he was doing and I thought he would work better with men not teenage girls.
-
Yeah, Seqoia was far from a good program shrink - he was too laid back. But considering I just wanted to get the hell out of there, I didn't mind at all.
We did a similar thing to the boat - I think it was a blizard or something, but in the end it came down to a life or death choice. Because I was the youngest and nerdiest out of the students (and had never had sex or done any drugs at the time I was admited - just had severe depression problems) people were always choosing me to die. I was "confronted" about this in the discussion afterwords, as if being told by everyone you live with that they'd rather see you dead wasn't bad enough. Linda told me that everyone choose for me to die because I didn't do anything worthwhile for other people.
Which was bullshit - before CCA even had a fucking teacher, I was helping tutor people in their classes, which was damn sad, an 8th grader helping sophmores and juniors in their classes. But that wasn't good enough, apparently. Not "worthwhile" by their junkie standards.
It's so nice now to be able to tell people who don't apreciate what I do for them to fuck off and die.
-
I almost got into the boat Kati got in then it was a tie between me and this other girl Katie. Jeannie asked us if we voted for ourselves I was like no, I never thought of it although I probably never would have voted for myself anyway.
I actually started laughing when she told us what we were doing for the boat exercise. When I staffed a training almost all of the girls were crying, I was so suprised. I think when I started laughing the girls staffing didn't know what to do no one had ever laughed before.
I also remember the giver/taker groups those where absolute nonsense. During the second training we had to stand up on a chair and say whether we were a giver or a taker then all the girls in the training and the girls staffing were lined up in two rows on either side of the chair and they stepped back if they thought you were a taker and stepped foward if they thought you were a giver. Then everyone gave you feedback. We had a giver/taker group after Christmas break of 98. So much shit had gone on I don't think Jeannie even knew how to handle it. Most of the girls there had cheeked and snorted their meds and one girl actually passed out in her shower and the staff didn't even know for a long time. One girl even gave another girl a tattoo. We sat in a circle and most people said they were a taker and why when it was my turn I listed like ten things and everyone was just sitting there staring at me. I was trying to get kicked out I never understood why she wouldn't kick me out. I had gotten up to phase 3 and ran from the airport when I came back from Thanksgiving break. I know this will sound crazy but I ran to an old staffs house who had moved to Texas. She was a little suprised to see me. She was the only personI ever was truthful to and who I trusted. All the grils thought I had been kidnaped. They told me they knew I wouldn't run and was positive I had been kidnaped. Shows how much they knew. I then got the spoken award of getting the farthest when I ran.
-
Ah yeah, the good ol' giver-taker.
Congrats on making it so far on your run (forgive me for being "negative"...). I never had the courage to run, I was a coward before brainwashing and even more of a coward afterwords. The only students to really make it far during my stay were a pair of gals who made it to Phoenix. My little sister (not sure if that's what y'all called your mentor program) ran also - that was embarassing. She didn't make it very far though, the cops found her 2 blocks away hidden in some bushes.
I don't think it's crazy to run to an old staff's place - it makes more sence than running to your family or trying to live on the streets. At least that staff member saw what life was like there and could empathize with your position potentially.
-
Where was this place located? Is it still going strong? Is it affiliated with WWASP in any way? Just curious because I don't know much about it.
There go the people. I must follow them for I am their leader.
--Alexandre Ledru-Rollin
-
I never had a little sister. I did have three big sisters and they all graduated while I was there. The third one was in my generation.(We had generations by who you went through the first training with.) I gave speeches to the first two at their graduations. I was going to give one to my third sister but I was back on phase 1 and they didn't think I was the best person to give a speech.
When I first got there a girl had run I don't know how far she got. My third big sister ran before I got there and spent a week in Prescott with some people who picked her up hitchhiking. The first Christmas I was there two girls ran to the bottom of the hill and then called the staff because they were scared or something. Two girls ran two weeks before I ran and they made it Las Vegas where they were picked up for playing around on one of the elevators in a casino. They went to see a boy that one girl had met when she staffed a training at Sunhawk Academy.
My story of running away is pretty crazy and I'm sure some of the girls didn't believe it. I ran away on a Sunday. I stayed in Pheonix for two days becasue I didn't have enough money to take the Greyhound to Texas. I was walking along a street with my luggage which I am sure looked wierd but this black guy stopped and said if I would give him money for gas he would take me where ever I wanted to go not that I had any idea where I was or where exactly I was going. She driving with him I made up this story about how I was 18 and I came to see my boyfriend and we split up. He said he would let me sleep at his place but he didn't have any furniture I was like I don't care. So he took me back to his apartment and I went to sleep and he left. He woke me up the next morning and there was two other people there and a big pile of mail in the middle of the floor. He told me to go through the mail with the other people and seperate the checks and money orders out on throw the other stuff out. So I did and a couple times he sent me out to buy food and cigarettes which scared the shit out of me because I knew they were looking for me. He took me with him when thet went to cash the money orders and he bought crack and smoked it. On Monday night he told me if I wanted he would set me up in an apartment and get me an id so I could start working for him or I could move on. So the next morning I told him I wanted to visit some friends in Texas so he bought me a bus ticket. He gave me money for food and said he would want me to call him when I got there but he didn't have a phone. I think he was a nice guy, obviously doing alot of illegal stuff but a nice guy. Jeannie thought he was going to hurt me or something, I don't think he would have and she was convinced they had gone through my stuff when I went to do errands. When I got to Texas I took a cab to Shawna's house (the staff) a man and woman were sitting outside, the woman went inside and I asked the man if Shawna was there and he said no, then the lady comes out and hands me the phone, I was like what the hell, so I said hello and Shawna said Kati and I said no She said Julie and I said yes she was like what are you doing I said something I really shouldn't be doing, then she made me promise I wouldn't go anywhere and she would be back in a hour. She was a little suprised to see me. The lady who called her recognized my picture because Shawna had it in her room. She came home and we wnt out and ate at a gas station. I told her it was my year date she shook her head. She asked me if I wanted to call Jeannie or if she should, like hell if I would call anybody. The next morning she took me to the airport and I flew back to Pheonix where Jeannie picked me up.
-
That's crazy, but lucky. Well, except for the end.
How did the level system work at SRA? We just had the (to my understanding) basic 1-5 setup. Occasionally there were jokes about there being a level 0 or even in one instance, -1, but for the most part the administration kept to the 1-5.
I got demoted from level 5 to 3 for 8 months while the school began going through financial straights - my parents were some of the few who always paid their bills on time and never seemed to care that they paid more than other families, and keeping me around was an asset. They made up some bullshit reason why I "wasn't ready" for level 5 anymore, and I don't remember it, nor do I care. I thankfully got my own look at their finances (you should password more than just your screensaver, dipshits) and memos on a few occasions, enough to draw my own conclusions about my demotion.
I loved how cloak and dagger you had to be around there. It provided an excellent sub-plot to spice up the boredom of living in one of those hell holes.
Nite Owl - please refer to their website. http://www.ccacademy.net/ (http://www.ccacademy.net/)
They are still going VERY strong.
-
It's all about money - isn't it. Like you said - if the money keeps coming in they will do whatever it takes to keep kids there. It's so outrageous and fraudulent - this teen industry. Where is Copper Canyon anyway?
-
We had 5 phases.
Phase 1 Beginnings
Phase 2 Discovery
Phase 3 Awareness
Phase 4 Achievement
Phase 5 Leadership
About half the time I was there to move up we had checkoff sheets that had to be signed by your therapist, teacher, and staff. Then you had to go in front of treatment team and tell them why you deserved to move up. If they approved you, you had to go in front of the community and tell them why you should move up. There was around 46 girls and if 5 or more girls voted you down you didn't get to move up. When I was trying to move up to phase 2 oneof the things we had to get signed off was that we wrote our parents once a week which I never did but Sonja signed it anyway because she thought I needed to move up. I was on Phase 1 for four months before I moved up. Then we went sheets were you had to evaluate yourself on a 1 being never and 5 being consistently scale. There were 6 categories emotional, physical, academic, community, family, and spiritual. You also had to have a teacher, another girl, a community director, and your therapist evaluate you and you had to get some many points.
We had one on one and arms length if you were at risk of running or killing yourself. When Sonja left they put me on suicide watch and Shawna told the night staff to come on every other minute to check on me to make sure I was still breathing. Its really hard to sleep when you have some one watching all the time. The day after they put me on suicide watch for saying hopefully I won't be here tommorrow, I was only going to run away, they put me on silence. I still cannot figure out why you would make it that a suicidal person couldn't talk to anyone. After I ran away I was on one on one and silence many times, in January I walked outside and was walking away when a staffed dragged my back, then they put me in isolation for 12 days. In total I was watched for 6 weeks.
I have looked at the bills they sent my parents and they charged them for seeing the psychiartist every month, we were suppose to see him every 6 weeks but that rarely happened.
My mom took notes whenever she talked to someone there and some of them are funny.
When you ran you had to write a personalized apology letter to everyone that was there including the girls and all the staff. When we were caught snorting our meds we also had to write apology letters so in total I would have had to write over 140 letters.
I believe I am lucky for nothing bad happening to me but I still have a nothing will ever happen to me attitude. I believe that some one is looking out for me.
Did you have work hours when you got in trouble?
_________________
Spring Ridge Academy 97-99
SUWS 99
Dancing Moon Ranch 99-00[ This Message was edited by: plomly22 on 2005-05-16 16:13 ]
-
Anon - CCA was originally located in Camp Verde, Arizona (a truck-stop town located between Flagstaff and Pheonix) but was moved (by the students!) to a new location now on display on their website in Lake Montezuma, AZ, just a few minutes north of Camp Verde. And yes, I agree. It IS all about the money to these people, and it's simply horifying to think that the people who ran CCA were regarded as "upstanding" in the Mormon community. As if regular bible-beaters weren't bad enough, we have a state full of people who glorify this crap.
Oh yeah - work hours. Gotta love those bitches. We got them, like you I'm sure, for everything and anything. I watched a student be given 5 workhours for manipulation for telling one staff member she was bummed out because she was tired and telling another she was hungry. We weren't allowed to level up if you had recived workhours in that week, and it was really vicious. The staff would watch you like a hawk when they knew you put your "level up letter" in. We did the most useless things for workhours. Staff members would bring their cars in on the weekend to get them washed by girls with whs.
We originally were allowed to level up with the concent of our therapist and Tammy. Tha changed once we got 20 students, and was gradually transitioned to the voting system. I'm not sure how it works now. We had a workbook authored by Linda that we had to complete to level up, and it was the stupidest thing ever writen. It was the kind of psychobabble you'd expect from a Hare Krishna or a Japanese Aum cultist.
I never had to write a letter of apology, but I was always told I apologized too much. The only people who were kicked out were those who ran and actually got somewhere. My little sister wasn't thrown out, but the pair (level 2 and 3, if memory serves) who made it to Pheonix were sent to Cross Creek Mannor. I often wonder what's become of them.
Do you think your time in the program has effected you now? I've always been caught between the thought that I really don't seem to be the same (very passive, terrified of social situations to the point where I can barely walk out in public) and the the thought that I am blaming the program for my own faults, and that I'm just a coward.
-
The first work hour I got was for not taking a shower every day. One girl had recieved over 20 work hours when they decided that they weren't working. So for a couple weeks they didn't have any puishment to give us, which I thought was funny. Then they went to a check mark system where for every three marks you got 1 work hour. If you got over a certain number of marks in one week you got lower phase privileges for the next week. They also made a rule that if you were cought leaning back in your chair you had to pay a 2 dollar fine out of your checking account.
We also went through a phase of having to eat 3/4 of everything on your plate. Which when we had really gross things like salty beans or zucchini casserole I would pile everything into 1/4 of my plate and try to get passed the staff. They usually stood by the garbage cans to check the plates. We also had a rule that if you left your eating area dirty or put your elbows on the table you had to sit at the Miss Manners table with the staff. They picked how long you had to stay there. Whenever they put me at that table I would complain the whole time, which they would threaten to keep me there longer but I never cared. Sometimes there would ba a whole group of us that sat together anyway and it wasn't much different that sitting any where else.
There was certain things that happened that have definitely caused problems. This is kind of a long story and hard to explain but I will try.
This was after I ran away in December. It was in February I started shaking my leg or when I was walking my arm and rocking back and forth or pacing. They took me to the doctor to see if there was anything wrong with me and there wasn't. So my therapist Katie at one point said she wanted to hypnotize me but she didn't do it at that moment. She thought that I was having repressed memories coming back to me. I had therapy one day and she did this thing where she took 2 fingers and waved them back and forth in front of my face and I had to follow them with my eyes. The first time nothing happened, then the second time I saw myself as a little child sitting in my room tucked into a ball crying and then I started crying and she stopped. For the next few days I couldn't speak very well and was inside my head. Nothing I can really explain. Then whenever it was noisy I started crying and rocking back and forth. I finally started to speak when I went into Prescott to get my blood drawn. I think part of getting out of my head was being in the real world. I could barley sit through meals because the dinning room would get so loud and I would start crying. From that point I was the indicator of the room being too loud. A couple times even for one girls b-day they made eveyone have a silent meal because I would start crying and rocking. It had gotten better but I still have problems if people yell especially at each other or in my ear. I went to a Demolition derby about two years ago and didn't think anything of it until I was there and I had to plug my ears for most of the time.
It wasn't until about 3 years later when I was reading an old issue of the Family Therapy Networker about EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing) that I realized that was what Katie had done to me and obviously had no idea what she was doing.
I have not mustered up enough courage to see anyone about it to see if they can reverse what she did.
I have one friend and that is beacuse we were at Dancing Moon together and we live by each other. I am horrible at making friends and I am scared to have them because the last people who I thought were my friends screwed me over. I also don't like to tell people about my past or I tell them to try to keep them away. I am very ashamed and don't think that anyone will understand what I have gone through.
Being in a place where everyone wears the same thing, speaks the same way, and tries to be perfect it is a hard adjustment to the real world. I know that I will never go up to someone and say my experience of you is or tell them how I feel about them and then ask them to repeat what I said back to me. I think I have become a stronger person and I know that if I ever had a kid I would never send them away. My mom tries to say that some things I have done I would have never done if I wasn't sent away which I try to tell her you can't say that because you don't know what would have happened. She told me we were afraid you were going to kill yourself even though I tried to kill myself a month before I turned 18. I was so scared of the real world and I had no experience of how to handle it being sheltered for 2 and 1/2 years.
-
I have a good opinion of EMDR based on many people?s feedback of the therapy, which is suppose to be excellent for PTSD. There?s lots of info in the internet, just search EMDR. If she was employing a form of hypnosis, I can?t comment.
Based on my ?unprofessional? understanding and knowledge of the subject, it sounds like you ?were? having some memories return that were being stimulated by the environment you were in. I don?t want to presume, but it may have been the best therapy for you. It sounds like she didn?t complete the process and just left you hanging. You don?t open a can of worms and leave the person to deal with the mess without assistance and adequate information. That?s irresponsible.
Let me give you an example of how it can work. Say that you had a very harsh mother. She frequently called you stupid, harshly criticized your efforts, and mistakes resulted in severe consequences and/or violence. Using the computer as an analogy, that software gets loaded- I?m stupid and can?t do anything right, and there will be harsh consequences if I make a mistake. Often times, there is a coping mechanism associated with it, like pacing or rocking, cataplexy- mental paralysis (zoning out), etc. Later in life you may have a boss who is critical and always looking over your shoulder. This can bring up the old feelings without conscious awareness of any association with your mother.
While you wouldn?t resort to ?sucking your thumb? or other coping mechanisms you developed as a child, you might get nervous, or stressed, sweat, etc. And rarely will a person be able to rationalize when they are in the presence of the stimulus, not until after some therapy anyway. Another person, with the same boss, would not necessarily have that reaction, because they weren?t ?programmed? with that particular software. They may have been ?programmed to know their worth and how to blow-off irrational people; and will simply ignore him/her or move on if the boss is too unreasonable.
A very important reason that we should be careful what we model for our kids. They are like sponges and and are being ?programmed? every minute. If they see you dealing with difficult situations in a reasonable way, if the self worth program is installed, they will have a much easier time dealing with difficult people and situations when faced with them. This was one of my major concerns when my son spent two years in a program against my wishes. I knew there would be much software to re-write, much to ?de-program?, when he returned.
The way it played out for my son (the older) who also did time in a military program?. He was heinously abused which resulted in a successful lawsuit. While there and unable to even vent about all the abuse and injustice, he turned it inward. He was cutting and devil worshipping when he got to my house, and smoked lots of pot to keep the rage at bay. In a nutshell, he was treated disrespectfully. Anytime he was in a situation and even ?felt? disrespected, he couldn?t contain the rage. Even though he made no conscious connection, it was as if he were back in that situation, only currently with no fear of retaliation, free to express the anger he felt. He still turned it inward most of the time, hurting himself by hitting a wall or something similar.
Trust was very difficult for him too. I set him up with the best EMDR therapist in our town. He would rarely go to appointments, so I went and gained what knowledge I could so I could help him. I was the only person he fully trusted, so I spent many hours, late nights, 'counseling' him.
So, what EMDR and/or really good therapy does- if done correctly- is re-write the software. It doesn?t always happen that one will be totally free of the old software/feelings, depends on the degree of trauma associated with it. But, you can learn to recognize when it?s happening and develop strategies that will make it easier when you?re in those stressful situations that might tend to recall the feelings attached to the old software.
I'd hate for you to reject a potentially benefical therapy based on the misbelief that it 'caused' those behaviors. But, I don't know what she actually did and you should get your records or otherwise inquire, and hope that the answer is contained in the notes.
-
Tammy, that filthy whore, refused to take me to the doctor while I was suffering from a severe kidney infection. It finally progressed to the point where they had to take me to the hospital where I was laid up for 3 days, and caused perm. damage to my kidneys , liver, and ovaries. I am now infertile because of that miserable, greedy, lazy Mormon. The medical records she had sent to my parents were mysteriously incomplete, and so by the time my parents knew the truth of what happened, they were powerless to sue.
If I ever see her again, her God will be powerless to save her from the retribution she deserves. Death would be far too quick and merciful for this woman and her filthy inbred family that ran CCA. I can only hope that their children are killed and their reprocutive organs cut off or torn out so that they may know my pain.
-
I know your pain. Fortunately, we had a daughter before our fertility went south, and that helps immeasurably, but there's no pain quite like it.
I hope with the various technological developments that someday you will have a baby of your own with the man you love, even if it takes winning the lottery or some other windfall to pay for it.
Blessings to you and prayers for you and yours.
Timoclea
(BTW, I am *not* Mormon.)
-
I've lurked here for quite some time, and I've come to apreciate your posts, Timoclea. Thank you for your kind words.
However, fertility treatments are waisted on me. Exploratory surgery showed my ovaries to be like rasins, and the eggs were damaged by long exposure to a toxic enviroment (a month I suffered, until finally all their threats became meaningless and I colapsed and could not rise again), causing damage to their chromosonal structure acording to my doctors at UC Davis. Even were I to use an egg, it would result in some horribly retarded and deformed mutant.