Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: linchpin on April 17, 2005, 06:09:00 PM
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I gotta say that I think methadone should be classified as a biological weapon rather than a drug.
I should have known that anything invented by nazis
couldnt be good (they gave us both methamphetamine and methadone..methadone = adolphine
I guess I really had no other choice at the time...there was no subutex /suboxone treatments..
Why should you give a fuck? I dont care either way..
I guess Im just posting this to warn anyone caught in the opioid tornado..
If you absolutely must go on opioid maintenance ..for heroin/vicodan/morph/whatever habit....check into suboxone and subutex..
Its withdsrawals are mild at best.
Methadone should be reserved for the hopeless. I have been in withdrawals since christmas during my taper ...which is fucking ridiculous..
you can kick the other opioids in 2 weeks tops and I mean back to work and sleeping and all.
I jumped off of my methadone taper at 40 mgs (wasnt even stable at 40 lets say 50 , milligrams that is) and it almost fucking killed me ...I couldnt even get up to bathe..and almost overdosed myself on my remaining supply to make it stop.
I went ahead and started my taper back at 30 and am almost stable at 10 mg.
I started at 170 which is a monster dose..was on 170 for years
Im gonna make it ...Im like a roach in that I always survive and always will..
Reagrdless of your opinion of me, which is of no consequence anyway...
if you have a little ol vicodin habit or heroin habit under say 8 or 9 bags/papers(depending where you live) a day ...just do your kick off those and be done
I have done alot of fucking drugs ...thats been the main focus of my very being since I was about 14 ...and have never seen anything that rivals this.
Its been a struggle you prolly cant imagine..yah yah dope took my life...dope took everything Ive ever had and then some...including my soul.
But thats done and gone and still Im here...Im over that.
But dont get sucked into methadone clinics bullshit...they dont give a fuck about you..and wont even tell you the vast number of horrid side effects and withdrawals involved...they "just wanna get you stable" ( which means strung out~ on a super synthetic opiate more powerful than all your past addiction times ten)
I wont go into all of that..right now. If you think you wanna ride the methadone dragon pm me and Ill tell you what the clinic wont.
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You're a good man, Charlie Brown. Seriously.
Emotions rule the world; Is it any wonder that it's so mucked up?!
Bill Warbis
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But dont get sucked into methadone clinics bullshit...they dont give a fuck about you..and wont even tell you the vast number of horrid side effects and withdrawals involved...they "just wanna get you stable" ( which means strung out~ on a super synthetic opiate more powerful than all your past addiction times ten)
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This is good advice for anyone thinking about methadone detox or maintenance. It's a scam to keep people dependent on the clinic. $4k a year x 200 junkies is a lot of money for each clinic. It is a BAD DRUG, WORSE THAN FUCKING HEROIN.
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from Smoke and Mirrors, by Dan Baum
("Egil Krogh: deputy to the White House domestic policy advisor John Ehrlichman.
Jeffrey Donfeld: Egil Krogh's deputy in charge of drug-abuse policy.
Jerome Jaffe: director of Illinois's methadone-treatment program, appointed the first drug czar by President Nixon
Robert DuPont: psychiatrist who created the D.C. Narcotics Treatment Administration; later White House drug czar and then director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse")
[1970] [pp 42-44]
Look at this, Jeff Donfeld said to his boss, Egil Krogh.
Rough crime figures were in for the District of Columbia. In the five months since Bob DuPont had been treating addicts with methadone, the monthly number of street crimes was noticeably reduced. Krogh and Donfeld were amazed; they'd hoped for results, but this was awesomely quick.
Krogh and Donfeld started talking about doing nationally what DuPont was doing in D.C. -- reducing crime by treating addicts instead of simply locking them up. Go look at the best drug-treatment clinics in the country, Krogh told his young assistant. See what works.
In 1970, there weren't many such clinics, and the one Donfeld liked best was the state of Illinois's, which used methadone in ministering to the state's 6,000 known addicts. The psychiatrist running the Illinois program was a short, wry, Jewish liberal Democrat named Jerome Jaffe.
After touring Jaffe's clinic, Donfeld asked him to assemble a team of experts outside government and prepare a report on what could be done about addiction in the United States if there was, say, $50 million to spend. Donfeld placed three conditions on Jaffe: the report could not exceed 100 pages, it had to be finished in six weeks, and if it leaked to the press it would be useless. This was, Jaffe thought, an extraordinary request. He didn't have a clue what the White House was up to.
Furthermore, it put him in a tough spot; Jaffe wasn't sure he could find any "experts" who would give the Nixon administration the time of day. The drug treatment field was dominated by liberal Democrats bound by a common loathing of Richard Nixon. Nobody in the field had forgotten that barely a year ago, Nixon had angered the health professions by giving the attorney general the power to schedule drugs.
Jaffe also though Donfeld was leaning too hard on the drugs-and-crime link. In his own experience, heroin addicts made most of the money they needed for a fix by selling heroin to other addicts, not burglarizing homes or mugging people. Most of those who were crooks were crooks before they were addicts. Also, Jaffe had met productive working people who were heroin addicts -- musicians, butchers, you name it. The assumption that drug addiction was responsible for rising crime made him uneasy.
But he understood that the drug-crime link was a political tool that wasn't going to be buried by sober talk about statistics. Besides, Jaffe reasoned, clearly some addicts do commit some crimes. The link wasn't entirely spurious, he told himself, just overstated.
And fifty million pre-inflation dollars was a lot of money.
So Jaffe began asking around, avoiding the doctors who were too rabidly anti-Nixon, and in a couple of weeks had an informal group put together that was beginning to jot down ideas.
What Jaffe didn't know was that Donfeld was simultaneously commissioning a second report from experts inside government. The rank-and-file staff at HEW, the National Institutes of Health, and the Food and Drug Administration were mostly civil-service holdovers from eight years of Democratic rule. They disliked the Nixon administration, and the feeling was mutual. Their recommendations exactly what Donfeld expected; they came straight out of the "root causes" philosophy of Ramsey Clark and the Great Society. The gist of them was that heroin addiction is a symptom of society's failures -- racism, alienation, and lack of opportunity. If government wanted seriously to address addiction, the "in-house" report said, it would pour money into housing, jobs, youth -- the whole dreary laundry list of expensive liberal solutions that the Republican Party disdained. If the government insisted on Band-Aids in the meantime, the in-house crew said, psychiatry was useful for treating addicts, and civil commitment had its place. Therapeutic communities weren't so hot, they said, and the worst idea of all, they said, was methadone -- a simplistic "magic bullet" that treated individual addicts as patients with no consideration of social context. The in-house team specifically recommended against a "massive methadone maintenance program": it simply wouldn't work.
Jaffe saw his marching orders differently from the government team. Donfeld had made it amply clear that the administration's antidrug priorities did not include providing "health care for the long-haired anti-establishment types who did not want to go to regular medical clinics." No, Donfeld said, the goal was simply to reduce crime by addicts. Willing to believe the worst about Nixon and his men, Jaffe assumed they wanted a recommendation of massive "civil commitment" of addicts, a solution Jaffe wanted no part of. Instead, he and his group focused on the estimated 30,000 addicts in the country who had applied for treatment but couldn't get it for lack of slots, and who were presumably tempted to mug old ladies for a fix. Yes, heroin addiction was a complex problem, Jaffe's report said, but methadone was the one type of therapy that demonstrably reduced crime by addicts. It should be made available to all who want it.
As Jaffe's group was coming to this conclusion, Donfeld hectored them with critical questions. Jaffe didn't know why. He didn't know his research was in competition with that of the government's own social scientists. He didn't know that Donfeld was shuttling between the two groups. He didn't know Donfeld's criticism was intended to make the Jaffe report as strong as possible. Jaffe believed he was forcing treatment down the throat of a punishment-oriented administration. He didn't know his finished report was exactly what Donfeld and Krogh wanted.
Methadone had dual attractions for Donfeld and Krogh. It was an inexpensive way to reduce street crime by drug addicts , which was Krogh's primary concern. But Donfeld and Krogh were not political naifs; they knew, as the HEW bureaucrats did, that methadone was a way to discredit calls for massive social spending on the "root causes" of crime. A methadone program would define addiction as a disease suffered by individuals, not a social pathology. Furthermore, adoption of such a program would cut all those hostile social-service bureaucrats off at the knees. As an added bonus, methadone would put a humane face on Nixon's Drug War, deflecting criticism that his only answer to the drug problem was more law enforcement.
Jaffe didn't know all that. He got a nice note from Richard Nixon thanking him for his work, and that, he figured, was that.
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interesting....
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thanks for info..Im in limbo I cant get below 10 mg ..
heres typical day for me
5 am after night of tossing and turning and nightmares ; I wake in cold sweat with my legs twitching..with a feeling of depression so deep my first waking thought is "wonder if I got enough shit to overdose" then I look at my girlfriend sleeping and realize that isnt an option...
5:15 dose my little bullshit 10 mg.. get up and curse out loud at god..biting my bottom lip almost till it bleeds clenching my fists.."fuck you god" is my morning prayer..
6:15 shit starts to cross the blood brain barrier and the chills and leg twitches almost stop
7:15 another little 2 milligram bump - ok this usually fixes me
the rest of the day I sit lethargic avoiding phone calls and shit because I dont wanna sound like a whiney suicidal bitch.
5 pm the sickness creeps up again and I generally fucking try to hold it together for miss linchpin - after all shes had long day and Im a fucking drug addict bum...
Im happy to have someone here though..
10 pm she goes to sleep and I come to computer and try to occupy myself sometimes i just sit allnight sometimes I take otc shit ahnd toos and turn ..
I read my old posts as scars and therion sometimes and dont know who that person is anymore
what the fuck was i thinking...whos been in my head past 15 years..
who the fuck am I?
I basically either feel suicidally depressed or so angry I wanna fucking start shit...or dead inside
I am a shell of a person..throw in all the straight brainwashing and being beaten by my schizo mother all of my life till I was old enough to split..
I have a crater in the back of my head from being beat as a baby
plus i inherited all of the family mental illness and boy is there alot of it.
I know noone gives a fuck ...I dont expect any of you to like me..all I can say is sorry for all the veiled threats etc..but I have some serious resentment
Take it as you will ...and I aint ASKING FOR SYMPATHY ...sympathy does jack shit for me.
Sometimes I feel like Im bound in a spiral going down and Im gonna be another suicide on Fagers list.
I dont know who I am anymore...and I think "brad ...why bother man, what you wanna clean up and work your ass off in some restaurant till you are 80? never have shit..and you know shes gonna ditch your sorry ass like everyone else."
Im crazy as a shithouse rat and dont even know who or what to blame.
Methadone is merely the tip of the iceberg people..
But seriously Im fucking losing it ...and all I can think about is the train wreck ahead.
Ok now yall can commense to flaming me ..I dont give a fuck
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hey. :cry:
i'm not even drinking and you are making me cry.
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yah I know the feeling. just cheated on my dose and took it 12 hours early so my mood is lifting..
:roll: heres to living out of a bottle of cherry syrup..
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blegh man heres what Im gonna do : Im gonna take as much methadone as I need to feel ok and function and support miss linchpin till shes graduates in few weeks..
Then when its gone Ill deal with intense pain for 2 weeks..Ive been going about this wrong and prolonging agony ..
I dropped too fast and 4 months of any sickness will fuck with anyone..
and Im nail tough kinda guy..lived on streets for 2 years maintaining heroin habit..raised in rehabs/jails all that ..
and this has reduced me to a sniveling baby.
Im gonna take as little methadone as I can to maintain till its gone then ill get it over with in the 2 weeks
Ive had 1/4 gallon approx ( no im not bullshitting) of methadone at my disposal for months and still tapered down to 15 ish without cheating much.
I dont take enough to do anything but barely curb withdrawals.
I fear im gonna kill myself if i prolong this ..I just went and woke her up in tears apologizing for being such a piece of garbage and shes like "what you are not!"
so i fear I cant trust my own thoughts my perspective is skewed..I see myself as refuse.
please guys ...dont ever put yourself through this...if you must use drugs, dont use opioids ...stick to weed and whatnot.
I been through alot and dont get phased by much ..I dont know if someone not so tough could even do this..If I was say a rich kid with ez life and all the sudden was in this boat I dont think Id make it.
heroin/ oxy/morphine/vicodin/methadone = a trap..and Ive done alot of all the dope there is..
walked away from crack, cocaine, methamps, ecstacy ...all that shit is cake
dont get sucked in the opioid tornado
Methadone is fucked...learn from my bullshit please..if you ever listen to anything I post let it be this.
They dont call it "the dragon" for nothing.
Barely hanging on another night...linchpin
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also wanted to add that Im skinny as a rail as is and have lost 35 pounds of muscle in last few months..and thats without skipping meals
Im down to 135 pounds from 170 and Im 6 foot 2
thirty fucking five pounds and I prolly have like 1% body fat
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Shit! That's "not good"! I wish I knew something you don't, but I don't. I'll be thinking of you, though.
Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... miamithem' (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/040303082X/circlofmiamithem') target='_new'>H. G. Wells
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Alrite mate i was reading yer article and it brung back heavy memories. Methadone is the most pscholgically(need spellcheck!) and physicallly addictive drugs out there. i was on it for nearly 3 years but eventually i cut down to about 35 mil and went for it. Rattled for 2-3 weeks constant and felt bad for about a further 3 weeks. It wasnt quite as physically extreme a withdrawal as heroin but then it lasted a lot longer. I fell on my arse after that through trying to drink my way through the boredom/depression but after a few trips to casualty for a shot of adrenaline i called it a day. it is hard at the start as i went to rehab but it was based on getting well physically i.e playin football, goin to gym etc and i took up joggin seriously as this was the only time my head would clear. I say to you to is to stop trying to give up and contact a recovery group that suit you and a gym. I have been to na but not for everyone(including myself) if you can go to aa/na just take in the practical things like " a day at a time" and when ure feeling bad that " this will pass". Anyway mate good luck
PJ
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aa/ na gives me the creeps ...Ive been to thousands of meetings..dozens of rehabs ..I can spout program like a motherfucker since I was 13yrs old...
after all these years Ive come to this conclusion : 12 step meetings are good for one thing: stealing ashtrays.
thanks for bothering to post even.
I guess either Ill make it or Ill kill myself ...period...either way I win.
Took extra meds ...from what I can tell 20 mgs holds me fine. anything less than that and i feel more like a rusty tack rather than a linchpin
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a linchpin holds within a means to an end
(http://http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Toothfairy_TP/mendespentacle.jpg)[ This Message was edited by: linchpin on 2005-04-19 10:23 ]
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I need some fucking ibogaine or something...
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Ok as of one minute from now I am 5 days off methadone..This shit is wracking my ass bad.
I went into a frenzy this morning..ever been dopesick?
I called a bupe walk in place at like 8:45 am and they said "Bring $37.25 and we will fix you up" basically
Ok I look in my wallet ...three dollars...fuck..no way Im gonna pawn my shit..
Finally took a steaming shower and just tried to go about my day.
Thing is I start to feel better and withdrawals kick back in..
Last night was hell...I was freezing and sweating ..and I mean nasty ass dopesick sweat..and muscle spasms kept me up ...been awake 5 days...and no I aint on methamps..
Finally got up at 4:30 am just because my girlfriend cant sleep with me thrashing around
Im gonna make it...Ill wait and if I am not better by am tomorrow Im gonna go on bupe for a week..
Its double the cost of methadone..but I cant fucking do this shit for another week...or 2...or 3..Im weak and cant eat much ..Im fucking dizzy ..and seeing shit from being awake so long and I even took tranqs last night...but you just cant sleep thru twitching legs and shit ..
FUCK
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reading your recent story about trying to get off the methadone made me so sad. you are very strong to have been off five days already. if it gets really tough, can you get someone to pay for the buprenorphine?
don't give up. you can kick the opiate habit. try to think of the withdrawal as a really bad case of the flu. you might feel like shit for a couple more weeks, but it won't kill you and it WILL pass, once the methadone is out of your system.
hang on. i'm rooting for ya!
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I think your story illustrates what the general public doesn't know, that methodone just substitues a legal form of heroin for the illegal form.
Good luck with this. I can only imagine that it is very difficult, but defeating this problem will enrich your life. I am pulling for you.
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Hey thanks that means alot...I know Ive been a dick in my days here...STRAIGHT is an unhealed wound for me and makes me crazy sometimes.
I have good news ...a friend gave me enough xanax to last for my kick..along wwith an OZ of fine seedless pot. I feel soo much better and may sleep tonite.
I still have cold turkey skin crawls but the xanax and beer make it unnoticeable..
By the way I was just bullshitting about ruining peoples lives. Never called cops on anyone ever
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Well, Someone called me.
No matter. Once I am one the case I am relentless.
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ahhhh sleep! I feel alot better..
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I always thought the FBI that I had to deal with during the 1996, 35 person heroin ring I got busted with were kinda cool.
As opposed to the Permian Basin Drug Task Force. But seriously fuck all you cops and DEA people..you should get a real fucking job..after driving around the Ft Worth area I see crack dealers everywhere ( I guess they sell crack ...they are negros.) Practically flagging people down...with cops crusing nearby..so what the fuck does the dea do ?
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a linch pin holds within a means to an end.You cant take me apart!
(http://http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Toothfairy_TP/mendespentacle.jpg) [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Toothfairy_TP/satcrxlg[/i[ This Message was edited by: linchpin on 2005-05-04 05:10 ]
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Silly misguided fool
We don't care about crack. In fact, crack is of benefit to us drug warriors. It rallys the white middle class against all drugs and gives the negros an instrument of self destruction. Crack was a gift from god, a divinely inspired instrument evangalising our message to all who see its affects
Crack and that other messy street drug Methamphetamine do more to Further our cause than my good friend Betty or Calvina could ever hope to.
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Well methamphetamine is a white mans drug...
Never ever ever seen a black dude do meth....But even the meth is coming from Mexican superlabs..
But compared to heroin...most drugs pale in comparison...
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That was me by the way...
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Linchpin, I hope you are feeling better.
For muscle cramps, Flexaril 10mg should help (talk to your doctor or street pharmacist). Make sure you are getting plenty of potassium.
As cliche as this sounds, yoga can do a world of good. Get some videos and do it at home. I recommend "AM and PM yoga", by Guiam (comes in white packaging). These videos are short, only about 25 minutes each. Do it when you wake up, and before you go to sleep.
It is very important to eat a healthy diet. Organic fruits and veggies, ect... I promise you will feel lots better if you stick to a healthy diet (no fast food!)
Good luck.
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Thanks. Day 8 ...Im better..just mild chills. Im fucking weak and frail and skinny tho. But I beat it...thus proving I AM NOT POWERLESS.. /fuck you Dr Bob
Not craving heroin either. Will begin job hunt monday..
Once again...linchpin wins..Im like a cockroach Id live thru a nuke blast muahaha
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By the way Xanax helped last few days of WD. Id recommend it to anyone kicking. I could feel the WDs but was xanaxed out and didnt care