Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on April 10, 2005, 11:14:00 AM
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I am in my mid-twenties, and a former prisoner of one of WWASP's camps. I am sincerely interested in hearing the point of view of parents who have sent their kid to one of these facilities.
What is it you think these facilities will provide that you could not provide yourself, or at least locally in your area?
Obviously, you are sending your kid away for being a menace to themselves or your family, at least in your eyes. Again, what is it that a facility thousands of miles away provide which you cannot? Is it the seperation that is supposed to help, the complete and utter lack of communication?
Unless you plan on keeping your kid there until they are 18, you must realize they will be coming home. How can a year and a half of seperation prepare you to let them come home. You must be expecting a serious behavior and attitude change?
How can that type of change occur so fast, I mean, you raised your kid for at least a dozen years already, don't you think that time outweighs whatever they will learn at a facility? Teens aren't exactly at the most absorbent age psychologically, they are much more rebbelious by nature, why would they buy into the program?
Do you believe the marketing materials, are you really scammed? I was scammed, I went willingly, but I certainly didn't stay willingly once I realized what type of place I was at. Is that it, you guys are terrified, and get scammed with false marketing materials? That is understandable, although a bit neglectful I'd say, but that is just my opinion.
What I cannot seem to wrap my mind around, is the idea a child and parent can complete the entire program, and still rave about it. It's hard for me to imagine why an intelligent, free-thinking adult can actually believe in their 'philosophy' and techniques used to reprogram teens.
I know there are support meetings for parents who have their kid there still. Even a group of intelligent adults talking to one another cannot put together what's going on? I mean, come on. You made enough money to send them there, but yet you become ignorant so easily, it makes no sense.
Please, enlighten me...
-Former student with questions
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I have a dgt in program at CC right now. Her father took her up to the school. I allowed her father to take her up (we are divorced). I didn't check it out before hand. I listened to him, he knew a friend that had a teenager in the program, her father visited the school, and told me it was okay. (Stupid Me). Right after she went up there red flags have been going up. Therapist didn't call me or return phone calls. FR lying to me. The BBS all the parents were and are so supportive, but they have been there way to long. They all sounded robotic. One other thing that I noticed from the BBS was that the kids stayed in levels to long or hadn't moved to any level. Then I read the therapist was cussing at a girl. I am in the process now of pulling her out. Her dad is taking me to mediation. I was up there last weekend to visit the school and see her. They are not to happy with me at the moment. Since my visit I haven't been able to get on the BBS (intentional)? I kept asking why the seminars were so long (Not Normal to me) no answers, so I have been collecting anything I can find so when I go to mediation they will know he's the jerk that wants to keep her there.I am horrified that these places are still in operation. My dgt needs help, not more problems, I feel so bad for all the kids that have been in these programs past and present, and I will be a voice for them anyway I can. Anytime I spoke or asked questions I was told supportive parents don't question the program. I support my dgt not the program. I did therapy at home with her and it wasn't working, I felt that if she was away from home she could get a fresh start. She would be away from the pressure of everything. I thought it was going to be a new start for her. I was really wrong.
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If time away from home to get some of the stress off is what she needs---and that can happen in the teen years---have you considered a traditional boarding school?
It might help in mediation if you had a clear alternative plan.
You might also want to get the PURE vs. WWASPS court transcripts from the defamation suit. If the evidence convinced a jury, and the judge found it admissable, that might be a powerful tool for persuading the mediator that WWASPS is bad news.
Also, take the letter of the Congressman from California.
Also, some contracts at WWASPS facilities specify that they transfer to Tranquility Bay if they decide your kid should go there, and that you give permission for them to get your kid a passport. There's a legal case out there where a family court judge gave custody of a teen to his *cousins* because they went into court and showed the judge that Tranquility Bay was so bad that placing him there and keeping him there was grounds enough for the parents to lose custody.
If your contract mentions Tranquility Bay, and you can get a copy of that case, that might be useful in mediation.
TimocleaThe spirit of this country is totally adverse to a large military force.
--Thomas Jefferson
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Oh, and the parents on here that had their kids in WWASPS schools are were unhappy with how their kids were treated, if you could get them to send you their testimonials/complaints, that could help.
Also, you might want to print out ISAC's list of warning signs of an abusive RTC, because if you have a traditional boarding school lined up to compare with you can point out how with the school you've selected, the red flags *aren't* there but with WWASPS they are. It could help to be able to compare point by point.
I didn't understand if you were going to have to go through mediation before or after you pulled your daughter out. The following is just in case you have to go through mediation first.
If your child is over 14, usually judges give a lot of weight to where the child wants to live or who the child wants to go with. Usually what child advocacy groups (like ISAC) recommend is that you use the law to get the child produced in person to say who she wants to go with.
The history of that is that if the child is asked while in the program facility, they're afraid to say they want to leave because they're (rightly) afraid it might be a trick to get an excuse to punish them some more without any real chance of them getting out.
If the child is produced in person, in front of a judge, with both parents and one parent wants to take the kid out of the facility, usually the kid will say they want to go with the parent who's going to pull them out and that's that.
I'm not a lawyer, those are just some suggestions.
Timoclea
Were the government to prescribe to us our medicine and diet, our bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now. Thus in France the emetic was once forbidden as a medicine, and the potato as an article of food. Government is just as infallible,[sic] too, when it fixes systems in physics. Galileo was sent to the Inquisition for affirming that the earth was a sphere.... It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.
Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia
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Hrms. I looked back at your post. Definitely make sure your daughter is physically produced, in person, for the mediation hearing/session to provide a statement of her wishes.
TimocleaI don't believe in God. My god is patriotism. Teach a man to be a good citizen and you have solved the problem of life.
--Andrew Carnegie, Scottish-born American industrialist and philanthropist
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A warning:
If the hearing is prior to her leaving, you need to be prepared for the possibility of the program colluding with dad to keep her there.
In my case, dad said son was on a 'slippery slope' and the head of counseling testified via phone to that effect. They also wrote a damning letter to the attorneys and judge claiming I was advarsarial and not supportive of the 'treatment' my son needed. That staff also confirmed that dad would loose $110,000 in prepaid tuition if son was brought home. A blatant lie I later discovered.
Impress upon your attorney that you want her brought back immediately for an independent evaluation to prove that such an austere placement is not necessary- not the least restrictive. Use the ICPC (Fed Law) to support this if she was placed in violation.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#13007 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2265&forum=9&start=0#13007)
Be prepared for the unexpected. They will pull the big guns to protect their livelihood. And some thoroughly enjoy siding with a supportive parent against a 'defiant' parent. You're dealing with sadistic, greedy people.
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Deborah,
Thanks for the wealth of information. It is greatly appreciated.
Timoclea
Thank you too!
I was reading some of the websites provided for more information.
Does the mail from home sent to the kids get read by the facility before the kids get it. I was told it doesn't. But after all this I really don't trust anything. I want to let her know I'm working on getting her home. I'm afraid because i'm not the supportive parent they will cut my letters off like they have taken me off the BBS.
Not that I like it much anyway, but I would find out things through it. I wasn't posting anymore, just reading.
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I don't know if they read mail there, but it's pretty standard procedure at most programs.
I felt between a rock and a hard spot too. I didn't want my son to believe for a second that I supported what was happening. I probably showed my cards too soon, in hindsight, but it felt necessary because my son was sounding extremely 'depressed'.
I was honest without giving too much detail. I just told him I didn't support the decision and that I was talking to an attorney. There was always someone listening to our conversations, so they knew from the get go where I stood.
When my efforts failed, I made a genuine attempt at working with his counselors. It was very clear that they didn't know their *ss from a hole in the ground. Violated ethics and their own policies. They were not interested in a working relationship, which imo, includes questions and discussion.
Before long I rarely got my weekly calls. Always some lame excuse.
You want to avoid this if possible. Find a kick *ss attorney that will advocate strongly for you. Your best chance is early. If you have a weak attorney and loose the first round, it will be near impossible. Keep hammering home that you want an independent evaluation and to seek services closer to home, if that is shown to be more appropriate. Once a kid is home you have a better chance of keeping them home.
There are numerous studies showing that it is not in teens best interested to be aggragated in treatment facilities (warehouses). Many links in this forum. If you can't find them and would like to use them as part of your defense, just ask and I'll help you find them.
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Hi Deborah,
If you have those links close at hand that would be great. If not maybe point me in the right direction.
I'll find them, I've found alot of information already, just takes time.
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Dear Fighting irish,
If your daughter truly needs an out of the home and community placement try to find an alternative boarding school to present to the court. You need to show you are not aganist helping your daughter and would be willing to transfer to another program from this abusive WWASP program.
Do not be unprepared.
It will not work to just say you want her out, and have the evidence of this being a horrendous program abusing children, but that you have created a healthy sound follow up plan for her to attend a reputable therapeutic boarding school that includes certified credentialed professional staff to help your daughter and family.
There are nurturing programs that are truly helpful to teenagers troubled and struggling. These other programs work without striping the children of their dignity, abusing them mentally and do not use behavioral modification or prison techniques to break a child?s spirit. Go in prepared with evidence and show them a place that is different then her current placement that she should be transferred. It will help your case better then to say she should come home.
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Fighting Irish, they read the mail, well in my daughters case they did, the envelopes all had a red mark on the bottom. Goood luck
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Could you please name some alternative boarding schools that are good? I haven't found positives anywhere on this forum
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On 2005-04-11 06:44:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Could you please name some alternative boarding schools that are good? I haven't found positives anywhere on this forum"
Well, the problem with that is the first question you have to ask is, "Good for what?"
For myself, one of my biggest problem with this industry is that I firmly believe that one-size-fits-all facilities that claim to treat every "troubled teen" problem---or claim to treat this problem to one set of parents and that problem to another---don't work.
Here are my positive recommendations. They won't be what program advocates want to hear, but they're the most effective positive solutions for each kind of problem that I know.
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There are four distinct classes of "troubled teen": 1) seriously mentally ill teen--may have any of the other problems, too, but the mental illness should govern the choice of placement; 2) juvenile delinquent teen; 3) drug addicted teen; 4) teen with lesser problems such as family animosities, anger, casual sex, casual drug use, bad grades, learning disabilities, wrong crowd, and so forth.
Here are my recommendations, but while above I've got the most serious problem that should govern the placement (if the teen has multiple problems) first, below I've discussed the kinds of placement I think are appropriate in the order that made sense to me while I was writing this post. The recommendations are split out by category number.
Category 4:
For a child that just needs some time and distance under other responsible adults because of the normal adolescent friction with his or her parents, a traditional boarding school is a good choice. This is also a good choice for a teen that has fallen in with a rough crowd where the teen agrees that a change would be good---maybe the teen wants to change groups of friends but the realities of the teen social caste system make that easier said than done. A boarding school can give that teen a fresh start---especially if the problems like bad grades, sex, and casual drug use are being driven by local peer pressure. Also, if sex is the problem, a traditional single-sex boarding school may not eliminate the problem, but by reducing opportunities it may limit the problem enough that nothing disastrous happens before the teen grows into an adult and can make his or her own decisions with the same degree of judgement as any 18 year old. A traditional boarding school is also an excellent choice if the teen just wants to get out of the house because of domestic friction between the teen and step-family-members.
For traditional boarding schools, I'd judge them by whether they're accredited, their graduates' ACT and SAT scores, their graduation rates, and/or any features appropriate to your particular teen's talents. If your teen is academically mediocre but excels at one of the fine arts or athletics, the facility that speaks to your teen's most likely aptitude for his/her professional career will be different from the pure academics. If your teen has an exceptional academic talent in a particular area, like math or science, a good boarding school for you will be entirely different from the appropriate one if your teen has the talent to make it to Juliard.
If your teen has one or more serious learning disabilities, obviously you want the traditional boarding school with the best experience teaching to the learning style that works best with that particular kind of problem. ADHD requires modifications to teaching style, classroom environment, and student-teacher ratio, not a lockdown.
A category 4 child is probably best off in a traditional boarding school supported by outpatient therapy as needed.
Category 1:
For a teen with a major mental illness, an entirely different kind of facility is appropriate and it *shouldn't* take non-mentally-ill teens, such as juvenile delinquents. If you want testimonials on alternative facilities for seriously mentally ill children, go check out the parent testimonials section of the message boards at the Children and Adolescent Bipolar Foundation---google CABF.
Category 2:
For a teen with no mental illness whose problem is serious juvenile delinquent behavior, so serious that family members, neighbors, or the house itself is at risk from violence or serious theft---use the legal system and juvenile detention. They provide some educational services to the incarcerated youth and are better at providing a "wake up call" without doing further trauma damage than any of the boarding schools out there.
Just as public school in some areas is better than some of the private schools in those areas, public detention (juvie) is better than a lot of private prisons. The quality of public detention is so much more reliable than that of private prisons that putting your young juvenile delinquent in private prison is a needless risk. Save your money to help him/her learn a trade or profession when he/she gets out if the wake-up call has worked--you're likely to get much more bang for your buck that way.
Category 4 again:
For a teen whose problems are delinquency but not serious enough that you feel you just have to get him/her out of the house for good, try the *real* Outward Bound. It has a very good track record. Its imitators aren't nearly as good and can be outright harmful. This is a case where substituting cheap imitations (or even expensive ones) can be harmful to your family and your child. I don't believe they will take kids against their will, so your fallback in that case would need to be either applying normal parenting strategies while waiting to see if the problem gets better or worse, or using the legal system and juvenile detention.
Category 3:
For an actually drug addicted teen, a *short* course of rehab and then a change of environment and outpatient therapy---either the parents move *or* a traditional boarding school, is the best option. The short course of rehab breaks the immediate grip of the drug and deals with any withdrawal problems. The change of environment takes the recovering addict out of the places and situations where he used to use drugs---which the research shows are powerful prompts to use drugs again. The outpatient therapy supports the ongoing recovery process. Repeat short courses of rehab as needed. There is really no shortcut in addiction treatment, I believe, over taking the short rehab over and over again until it takes.
If anyone else knows of actual studies that show better outcomes from long rehab over multiple courses of short rehab when and if relapses happen, please post cites.
The truth is that genuine addicts (not just casual users called "addicts" by ideologues because of the particular drug used) always have a certain risk of relapse. As long as you break the immediate grip of the drug, which is what short rehab does, then each time outpatient therapy has about as much chance of keeping the addiction in long-term remission as the patient would have coming out of long-term rehab (and you'd have to continue outpatient therapy after long-term rehab, anyway). When you get an addict out of rehab, short or long, it's always a case of providing whatever supportive outpatient care you can, crossing your fingers, and praying. You don't get any noticeable edge from keeping the addict in rehab twice as long and hiring people to pray over him in relays. :-/
I know of know studies that would suggest that long-term rehab, and the necessary ongoing outpatient therapy or support group participation, is worth its increased cost and time over short-term rehab. With either long or short term rehab, you have to pay for outpatient therapy or continue with support group supportive care afterwards, you have substantial risk of relapse, and if you get a relapse, you have to put the addict right back in rehab---pretty much over and over until you get a remission. The additional cost of long-term rehab, over short-term rehab, is a waste of money for what you get---or, rather, what you *don't* get.
With addictions, there are no guarantees. Better off the same time in rehab split over a lot of short courses than one long rehab---because each time your addict comes out of rehab is one more chance for remission to "take."
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See, the problem is, we *do* give positive recommendations about what to do in the various cases. It's just not what Program fans want to hear, so they tend to blow it off and say we don't make any positive recommendations.
My recommendations are positive *and realistic*.
I'm not making empty promises about the probable outcomes that are too good to be true, so a lot of people won't like what I have to say.
1) The truth is a major mental illness is for life no matter what you do. Ongoing treatment helps a lot, but doesn't cure.
2) The truth is a lot of juvenile delinquents grow up to have more trouble with the law, no matter what you do.
3) The truth is addicts relapse more often than not, no matter what you do.
4) The truth is that most pain in the butt teens grow up to have about the same range of outcomes as teens who aren't as big of pains in the butt, and that their outcomes are mostly dependent on what *they* decide to do---you can't improve that range of outcomes, but you can *certainly* worsen it by sticking them in some private prison that traumatizes and damages them.
The truth is that if your teen is a wounded bird, there are no miracle cures.
But there are better and worse choices for how to make the most of your teen's chances---and the better choices are NOT "one size fits all."
And the programs that accept multiple categories of child deliver "one size fits all" no matter how loudly they protest that they individualize the treatment to the child.
Nobody out there has magic fairy dust to fix your child if you just clap your hands and say, "I believe in fairies!"
The number one piece of advice all consumer advocates give for avoiding scams: If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
Timoclea
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http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=903&forum=9 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=903&forum=9)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#61374 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=6625&forum=9&start=0#61374)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#53071 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=5864&forum=9&start=0#53071)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =300#32242 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=3865&forum=9&start=300#32242)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#61854 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=6675&forum=9&start=0#61854)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#86158 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=8565&forum=9&start=0#86158)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#84826 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=8471&forum=9&start=0#84826)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#63964 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=6868&forum=9&start=0#63964)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#56606 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=6211&forum=9&start=0#56606)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#53849 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=5950&forum=9&start=0#53849)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#79171 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=8025&forum=9&start=0#79171)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2745&forum=9 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2745&forum=9)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... &forum=9&1 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=3362&forum=9&1)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=20#49825 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=5516&forum=9&start=20#49825)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=10#63727 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=6851&forum=9&start=10#63727)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#46691 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=5277&forum=11&start=0#46691)
http://www.wpic.pitt.edu/aacp/Vol-15-3/Youth.html (http://www.wpic.pitt.edu/aacp/Vol-15-3/Youth.html)
And one of the most revealing from the industry!
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#56579 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=6205&forum=9&start=0#56579)
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Timoclea,
You are so well informed.I appreiciate your intelligent input.
it's too late formy child/family,but where do you suggest a parent would find a traditional boarding school?
That is what I thought we were enrolling our child into at the Montana WWASP "school."
That was what we had been sold on his behalf.
Stupid, stupid me.
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On 2005-04-11 12:37:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
Timoclea,
You are so well informed.I appreiciate your intelligent input.
it's too late formy child/family,but where do you suggest a parent would find a traditional boarding school?
That is what I thought we were enrolling our child into at the Montana WWASP "school."
That was what we had been sold on his behalf.
Stupid, stupid me."
Google "prep schools"
http://www.schools.com/ (http://www.schools.com/) I found this site from a quick Google. "prep schools" seems to be what to search for to get real schools and not BM facilities.
The difference is that these schools are accredited as "college preparatory schools."
I looked through to see if some of the "troubled teen" boarding schools were on this site's list and so far I haven't found even one.
That's what I would look for---look at the "troubled teen" school lists---the websites that advertise that. "Highly structured environment" is a code phrase that means "behavior modification facility."
Then after you find and make up a list of "troubled teen" boarding schools, find a list of prep schools that *doesn't* include the "troubled teen" places.
TABS (the link I listed above) doesn't list any of the red flag schools I can think of off the top of my head. And their "search by location" list doesn't include third world countries in the foreign country list.
Timoclea
Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar.
--Julius Caesar
[ This Message was edited by: Timoclea on 2005-04-11 19:21 ][ This Message was edited by: Timoclea on 2005-04-11 19:22 ]