Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: hedwigfan on October 24, 2002, 11:27:00 AM
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After sitting through countless girls' raps where all we talked about was what sluts and whores we all were, I wonder what the guys talked about. Was it the same? Were you made to feel ashamed of any and all sexual experiences? Also, it seemed like there was a lot of exaggeration about some sexual stuff. So much emphasis on sex in an asexual environment...
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Yes we also spent an inordinate amount of time discussing sex in guys raps.
Our raps often centered on how we we losers and scum because we had been using women for sex etc. For my own part, I was reminded quit often about the fact that being an addict had somehow lead to me being sexually molested, as I have posted here before.
A totally insane notion, fed by my own exaggerations in pursuit of group acceptance, as well as the obsessed ideology of the zealots who were running the hellhole.
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As a MBer, I wasn't privy to many guys raps, but when boredom set in, I'd be nicey-nice enough to get a few laughs. Generally, I'd hear stuff about getting girlfriends pregnant, sex abuse or the ocasional guy-guy thing. Every once in a while, I'd hear something really ill...Like the animal luv crap or some twisted asshole admit to abusing a kid. I know this stuff isn't funny, but ya gotta remember as a MBer, I had an image to project. One day this kid stands up and admits that he'd been shoving a hairbrush up his ass. The whole freaking group just busted up, the staff as well. The sad thing was this guy was actually expecting empathy or counsel...I hear he bought a gerbil farm. HA!
Jason
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James is correct. There was this one guy who was confronted mercilessly for claiming to have never jerked off. Then there was this guy who confessed to once, while hunting, to having relations with the doe he just shot. Another, spoke of romances with farm animals. Needless to say I was quite scandalized. Some thing just should have been kept to themselves.
Do y'all remember that 4th phaser that got caught having a wank in the bathroom?
CL
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Clay,
While you were on staff, we would come back from working at Jiffy Lube or Mr. Pride, and raise our hand in the back of group and ask for permission to take an extra 5 mins in the shower to relieve tension. The guy who started this was Chuck from Alabama, can't rember last name, but he was hillarious.
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On 2002-10-24 09:27:00, James wrote:
Yes we also spent an inordinate amount of time discussing sex in guys raps.
Our raps often centered on how we we losers and scum because we had been using women for sex etc. For my own part, I was reminded quit often about the fact that being an addict had somehow lead to me being sexually molested, as I have posted here before.
A totally insane notion, fed by my own exaggerations in pursuit of group acceptance, as well as the obsessed ideology of the zealots who were running the hellhole.
This was Miller Newton's doing. Prior to him, the program (The Seed) Had girls/guys rap where we gave sexual confession.
Along came The prick Newton and he tried to redefine "druggie" into "addict" and then redefined the definition of addict.
His sick twisted perverted definition of addict exists thru today in the offshoot programs.
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Oh yeah, it got freaky. I remember some guy "confessing" to having sex with his GRANDMOTHER'S CORPSE. Now, to this day I don't believe him, but he did put on quite a show by crying wailing during the story. Let's just say that was an uncomfortable 15 minutes.
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Actually I was dropped from second to first within a week of making second because I had been spending too long in the bathtub 'reading the bible' ahem. I self withdrew within two days.
There were two guys who stood up in Atlanta one day and admitted to a guy/guy relationship, both were threatened with termination till they broke down crying, stated clearly that they only did to feel good because of addiction, and then begged to be started over instead of Termed- bet they might think differently today.
There was one brother/sister combo in Atlanta that admitted to incest. That was most uncomfortable for everyone, and ended up something this guy talked about in guys raps for a few weeks. Again- he was convinced that he only did it because of addiction.
The thing about masturbation was just soo unhealthy. Nothing could be more natural or healthy, and they made it out to be part of a chronic, terminal diease, nothing could be further from the truth.
Maybe this is too personal for this pforum, maybe not- but I have only recently overcome the habit of reaching orgasm in total silence- a habit that developed from the life in those hellish private prison's we referred to as host/foster homes.
As Wes points out on his website, part of this was self defense on the cults part- who was going to sue with the prosepct of your deepest sexual secrets being revealed in open court documents?
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Speaking of Miller, on more than one occasion I noticed him standing in the back of girl's rap - just observing, I'm sure...
Shelby
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There was a girl in our group that admitted to having sex with a guy in a wheelchair. Now, I dont really see what was wrong with that now, but then it was used as a horrible incident that she was to be totally ashamed of.
I mean, guys in wheelchairs are allowed to have sex too right? But everytime she was made to talk about it, it was like she had commited something so awful and shameful....she "had sex with a guy who couldnt walk" like he was a monster or something...Ill never get that.
Basically, in our group if you hadnt had a guy/guy or girl/girl relationship...or if you hadnt had sexual contact with an animal...well, then you were lying. Until you admitted to at least the homosexual part..you werent considerd to be even remotely honest. And that meant even if you had shown your "business" to another girl when you were 7 or some crap like that. It was considered a druggie behaviour.
Ridiculous.
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The whole program was beserk with this "who can out weird who" in those raps. Like someone said, you had to AT least have had a walk on the wild side to be considered honest. I heard a lot of FREAKY stuff in 2 years.
I hated it. They were freakiest about masturbation: incidentally the only sex I'd had at 13. They goaded me into tears over noticing my naked sister run through the house looking for a towel. I earned T&R that week. Sickos they were.
Bill
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There were a few people on the girls side who claimed to never have sex before entering Straight, every girls rap after that they were asked to stand up and they were yelled at for not having anything to say. Sheesh, sounds like Straight was encouraging those who didn't have sex to come up with something clever or just wanted to rip on them for still being a virgin.
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I was a virgin when I went in too. For whatever reason they believed me. I seem to remember a lot of times that people would talk about sexual things in regular raps too. Anyone else rememebr that?
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When I was on Staff I got confronted for walking in to the room where a girls rap was being held. She thought I was trying to listen to what they were talking about. OK I was walking through a little slower than usual. LOL
Don
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Whoa....that was intense.
Let's hear it for Jennifer Seal.
Bill
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Yeah I was confronted on numerous occassions for saying to everyone that I loved Straight. Well, I thought maybe if I convinced them that I liked it, I wouldn't get ripped on by saying I didn't.. It was a damned if you liked it and damned if you didn't thing.
I really only liked most of the food served the host homes and I knew since day 1 that when I turned 18 I would be able to sign myself out, so most of my stay there I didn't try that hard to go up on phases, so basically just buying my time there.. kinda like jail I guess. Although I tried not to let that place get to me too much, but after about the 5th month or so of being on 1st phase I had to do something to advance in phases, so I actually memorized the 12 steps (I can't remember much of them now). I did that so I didn't get ripped on so much.
Ok. I was 17, what else did I know?
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My whole first two phases was nothing but confrontation. "TM stand up" and the hand would start flying, and ooh ooh ooh and fingers snapping all around my face. Nothing else need be said besides TM stand up. Shit it was like a feeding frenzy of sharks. Several people knew me, even so far from home when I was signed in with one of those court orders. Didn't stop to think it might be bogus, didn't want to press my luck if it wasn't. So nobody was buying the sweet suzie look on me. Everything I did was FOS. Everything I was was FOS. Never try to say anything during a confrontation. Even a yes or no will start the frenzy again. Of course, in between somebody is screaming at me, how I lied, how I was a slut, this from my brother, further cooberated by acquaintences from my druggie past. Or the people I was staying with. Topic is unimportant here, they -the group as a thing- or the staff- could find some point about anybody. I did it too when I reached the upper phases. The group was a mob out for blood. Encouraged by the staffer leading the rap. Topic...FOS...TM stand up
I never misbehaved. When I got there, I was one of them *strong 5th phasers* meaning I was mean when I was told to be just like a good little zombie. but I did get started over from 5th phase, for telling a lie about days off when my parents had come down for a visit. I got put on a no-phase after two sisters split from their house on their second night back home on second phase. Each time it was a FOS rap and TM stand up that they nailed me. Can't remember if it was before or after the pre-staff training. It was in St. Pete, Jim S. Always scared the shit out of me.
I laughed at Jim. I knew they were gonna start me over. I could see it on all the staff faces. Shit haven't thought about this in a long time...He was so smug. Surprised I still boil over this. 13 or 14 months gone poof, man, I'll never get out of here. Then again when those Seabold girls took off, what ever happened to them? I told the next chain of command staff just like a good zombie, they were gonna do it, they ditched me easily in the line up after the open meeting, and I told them again. When it happened, they split during one of my 4min showers. Took the dog so he wouldn't bark, mom was snoozing. I got a no phase-essentially newcomer status- from another smug face on Jim S. god endless confrontation for a couple of months finally allowed to go back to 3d again. That cost me the only varsity letter I ever could have gotten. not being a jock, that was something to me, I was on the swim team at St Pete HS.
Yep, the FOS rap always brought up dread in me, even when I was dishing out. Did plenty of that as I recall. Part of the group, the mob, just like a good little zombie.
TM
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I'v read the posts for this topic and I believe a person's sexual past had little or no relevance to our drug use (although Straight wanted you to believe that it did) and shouldn't have been the focus of so many rap sessions. When did Straight become a sex rehab? I never heard anybody stand up and say, "My name is George, I'm a sex addict and the positions I've tried were... and in my past..." I remember an oldcomer, no pun intended, stood up saying he wanted to talk about himself and he began crying and admitted to masturbating the night before. Doug Hemminger was on staff at the time and he cracked me up because he told the guy that he, too, had done the deed the night before and that it's noboby's business. He told the guy to sit down and basiclly get over it. Doug did the right thing, he made it a non-issue. After that, I don't remember guys confessing to doing it anymore in guy's raps. If you stop and think about we were all victims of rape. We were raped by the staff, mentally and emotionally, having to discuss and listen to these private and intimate matters.
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What is really off the wall is that Miller Newton stated in many of his publications that the steps utilized by both KIDS and STRAIGHT were a panacea for sexual addiction and homosexuality. He claimed that often adolescent homosexuality and gender confusion were subsequent to behavioral disorders that could be treated/quelled the same as substance abuse disorders. There was an individual in KIDS of EP that was admitted solely as a sibling because of his homosexuality as a teen. He was admitted under the guise of having a "behavior problem" and later discussed his experience on a "Geraldo" show that was never aired nationally due to the pending litigation. The caption on the show under his name was "tortured homesexual". There were others as well that had limited experience with drugs and alcohol and were admitted after parents discovered details of incestous relationships, homosexual experiences, and autoerotica masturbatory stuff. Masturbation was emphatically forbidden in KIDS of EP and newcomers (that pun again...) were often made to admit to soiling the sheets to host parents and even girls were forced to admit to doing the deed in the humiliation of full group. Meglomania has no limit.. Newton really thought his approach could cure homosexuality, masturbation, incest, bestiality, and other sexual deviances as some would say. I wonder what he did as a teen....
:smokin:
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I was a virgin when I went in too. For whatever reason they believed me. I seem to remember a lot of times that people would talk about sexual things in regular raps too. Anyone else rememebr that?
I was a virgin too. Junior Staffer Cary Travis took me outside one morning and asked me about some different things and the sex thing came up. He was actually proud of me for "saving myself". I was never confronted about it.
I do remember girls talking about sexual things in regular raps too.
Don
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hello, I was in VA straight from 82-85. Your post brings to mind how this whole "homo" thing was something that really made me question the doctrines that straight was preaching. I recall thinking to myself then, "Isn't this whole thing about getting off drugs? What does being gay or not have to do with all this?" :???: (not that I am)
Before I came into the program I was into some political type punk-bands (mainly the Dead Kennedys) that poked fun and railed against right-wing thinking...So when people started preaching about the evils of being a homo, I started thinking, "What is this 'bible-thumping' bullshit, anyway? Do these people really know what they're talking about? Were ALL of my 'druggie' friends really that bad? Will I really go 'back to drugs' if I hang out with them again?" So I began to lose "faith" in the program...
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Doug Hemminger was on staff at the time and he cracked me up because he told the guy that he, too, had done the deed the night before and that it's noboby's business. He told the guy to sit down and basiclly get over it. Doug did the right thing, he made it a non-issue. After that, I don't remember guys confessing to doing it anymore in guy's raps.
For me it was a 5th Phase rap. Cary Travis, the sensible one on Staff had told us that it was natural and not to make it an issue.
Don
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Don- The name Cary Travis rings a bell. Were you in St Pete and if so when?
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I was in the St. Pete BUILDING. That is to say I signed myself in down there but was never in the St. Pete GROUP. I was in the Cincinnati Group which had been split from the St. Pete Group the day before.
When I came in Cary was on Junior Staff. He was in the St. Pete group I'm sure. Brown hair/eyes kinda stocky. Man I wish my scanner worked, I'd post a pic of him. But Cary was real nice. He lives about 20 minutes away but doesn't have a phone or e-mail so contact with him is difficult.
Other people you may have known:
Andy Stoothoff
Tammy Waller
Dave Gottesman
Dave Momper
Fred Barnes
Jim Kuckle
Dave & Doug Marcum (sp)
Grant & Richard Gerber
Keith Ellis
(These were all a part of the Cincinnati group when I entered.)
Hope that helps
Don
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Toward the end of the eighties and into the early nineties, an executive at Straight Atlanta admitted (or announced) that Straight Atlanta was not only gearing toward rehabilitating little druggies, but was now also branching out into other areas such as eating disoders, sexual disorders, etc. We had been hearing almost exclusively these issues from the girls side as fewer and fewer of these girls seemed to have significant drug problems. I remember a fellow 5th phaser being pissed off about the new change. I mean, how are we supposed to confront people with bulimia or anorexia, or sexual problems? Food is never illegal and sex becomes legal at a certain age and no one is expected to be a celibate indefinitely. We were bewildered at having to now after months of intense confrontational therapy having to have to go easy on everyone else? No way! We had earned the right, nay, THE VERY PRIVELEGE TO BE THE OPPRESSIVE PRICKS! And now we were being asked to modify that a bit to sound a little more like Ann Landers? It was probably a good move, but considering the hardcore Straight that we went through morphing into Oprah Winfrey was like the end of an era and at the time we were bummed at this change. It seemed that the cult was going soft on us and we had just begun to believe...
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I completely agree on this point...we began to see the same thing in Dallas. People called "behavioral disorders". There were several people who were a part of the Southern Cali group who were deemed food addicts and sex addicts. We of course were only understanding of the "druggie" issue, and were never able to give these people any kind of feedback that was helpful...its was the same old crap we yelled at everyone else.
Those people just ended up being "druggies" too. Very sad.
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A buddy I knew who was in Atlanta Straight for thirty months felt he was "misdiagnosed" as a druggie and was more of a depressed person than anything. Straight inc. wasn't concerned about anything but profit, or they would've turned away those who didn't have drug problems, instead they chose to scar their and our minds with obnoxious BS therapy.
Straight was an interesting experiment in how not to go about rehabilitation. It amazes me that it went unchecked for so long. It's like the hysteria in 1980's war on drugs blinded the minds of so many parents and civic leaders and they cosigned and nodded approval to this cynical depravity. We who complied in the program were trasformed into a hitler youth of self-righteous ex-druggies on a crusade to save the world from the evils of drugs, and it really felt good to be a part of something that was so RIGHT.
One of my good friends on 5th phase would express his doubts in group that I was FOS, and didn't have to give reasons why, just had these nagging doubts, you know. Was he afraid that I was speeding to get to the building? I was. Was that the problem. Yawn. Your best friend would have doubts about your integrity over innumerable dumb rules that never mattered to begin with and would bother to say things in group about it. What were we thinking? What was the point. Was going 5 or 10 miles over the speed limit to avoid getting blasted in group a sign of relapse or a sign of a healthy fear of the indoor palefaced mob awaiting my hide with fiendish looks of glee and drool dripping from their malnourished looking troll faces. I'm kidding. They were all just as scared as I was and were dreaming of the day that this nightmare would end. It is just a weird thing that the Straight train took years to derail. I guess that's why we post to try to make some sense out of the insanity there.
But back to Guys Raps topic: I never had a guy/guy relationship, so I was really blown away to hear all these alleged confessions. I thought,"if I had a guy/guy, I would never tell these people about it!" and here were all these young guys talking about it as if it were the trend and to quote Seinfeld "not that there's anything wrong with that!" but it was like you could hear the Twilight Zone theme song and the "who let the dogs out" song at the same time! Get me outta here!
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I know man, there was this one guy in the program who shared about a sexual incident with his dog over and over again in group. After he graduated, he saw that THEY ALL TALKED BEHIND BACKS AFTER ALL!!! He was so embarrased. He just wanted to disappear forever because so many young people were so well informed about his love for his dog. It's not funny, but I can't stop laughing. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :razz: :cry:
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In Morgan Yacht we had this guy that at least once a week
without fail, he would stand up and say he was having problems with
controlling the urge to (you know) during guys rap. I was being a
jerk, along with my buddy Jeff. They had served hot dogs on slices
of bread for lunch, and I guess they were gonna go bad or something,
because we were allowed seconds. Jeff looked at me and motioned for
me to hide one under my leg. I had no idea what he was up to, but
hid half a hotdog under my leg anyway. It was the girls turn to
leave the main room for their rap and then our guy's rap started.
Sure as clockwork, as soon as Mark E. was called on, he stood up and
started talking about (you know) then a peice of hotdog comes flying
across the group and Jeff is holding his crotch and making all these
fake moaning noises. Everytime someone would say the word
Masturbate, another piece of hotdog would fly. Since the 5th phasers
were all in school, nobody knew where they were coming from. We kept
it up until we ran out. It was funny as hell though, Chris Cassler
even had a smirk on his face. We even cured young Mr. E of his need
to "confess his sins," all the time. I think Jerks did more for the
program than any other facet if you really take the time to think
about it. St. Pete '78 - '82
[ This Message was edited by: 85 Day Jerk on 2003-06-28 07:10 ]
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Yeah, they finally had to tell the dog lover to cut out the sharing about the dog love. They had decided, "enough! we've had it with the loving of the dog conversation!" It wasn't exactly the best 5th phase example I suppose. It was getting to where no one would respect his 5th phase authority if he kept remembering this particular time in his past. Kindly, they were like, "dude, you always talk about this, let's hear some changes in the present part of rap".
But when the guy was on 1st and 2nd phase, it was, "tell us about how you got nasty with a dog, man!" and "share your feelings of shame" and "how can you go on living without constant thoughts of suicide over what you did to that poor dog!", and "ooh I think I'm going to puke, what are you some sick degenerate? now the whole group has those sick images in their heads when they are going over MI's tonight! They'll probably puke all over their host mom's kitchen table thinking of you and that dog!"
So, it was encouraged in the lower phases to share about weird stuff, but you were to disown the stories as you got promoted up the phases, because they wouldn't have the strong 5th phasers known as doggieporkers.
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I was only in for about 4-5 months but I heard all kinds of twisted stuff...
I heard about incest, beatiality, masturbation, rape and so on. I was in the eighth grade and sex wasn't all new to me, but I learned a few things for sure.
I remember at the screamfest we had every week one 4th phaser got blasted because someone had noticed a sticky substance in the shower after he got out. They blasted him for a bit and I think he finally confessed, the dirty lil bugger.
There was another guy who was so FOS it wasn't even funny. We're not talking drugs FOS, he was just in another world. His name was Tom and according to him he was the foremost Karate instructor in the world. I'll never forget his demonstration of the technique "Monkey grabbbing the peach". Or the time we had a night to rock out, do skits and whatever... he got his ass kicked by a guy who was a green belt in a little sparring match. Oh yeah... he said he gave himself oral or tried to.
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Yea - it's called auto-fellatio.
I do yoga and practice Hapkido.
I'm limber (and long enough I guess) to get about 2" in my mouth if I want to - useful when the girlfriends not in the mood. :wave:
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SLLLLLLLUUUURRRP ! ! ! :???: